Truck Sinks @ Varney Point
 

It looks like they were unable to recover the truck that went through the ice at Varney Point the other day and sounds like it might be a while before it can be safely recovered.

Careful out there!

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1GUDMzi9jE/

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

That's going to cost the owner some serious $$$$$!
A buddy of mine said his son lost a snowmobile through the ice in Maine and never reported it.
When it was finally discovered and removed it, he got a a bill for 10K.

Hope the guy has insurance!

Woodsy

I'm not sure standard auto insurance covers one for a vehicle recovery as a result of driving on and falling through a frozen lake....

truck though ice
 

I certainly hope not. Don't want to support dumbassness!

If your vehicle is classified as an off road vehicle which I believe most four wheel drive pickups are or ATV (all terrain vehicle) and depending on the carrier, the vehicle should be covered, not sure about the recovery though. If a car goes through the ice I do not believe it would be covered at all. Some insurance carriers have clauses specifically excluding any off road coverage so best to check your policy...

Either way no one should be out there now with a full size pickup!

Dan

An aviation saying...

"The only time you can have too much fuel is when you are on fire."

I'll add...

"Or when your truck goes through the ice and sinks to the bottom."

oh no
 

something else for me to hook onto while fishing specially near dan's house

Someone on social media is asking about a cheap way to recover a truck in the lake. So probably not.

Has anyone seen updates on this?

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

The truck is still in the lake….

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...2e5b98552.html

I expect that it will be there for some time.

I think that I heard the PD get called down to the Town Beach this afternoon for someone putting their boat in on the beach. I bet it was these guys. I am a little surprised about the no fine thing. And a lot shocked there is no leaks yet either, or there was and all under the ice was not detected?

Maybe they ran out of gas, lol.

I think I read somewhere they were trying to pull it out with a boat. I don't know if that's true.

For anyone interested in the saga, Kenneth Krauss, a property owner on shore nearby, has been posting the events on his Facebook page. Here's the latest: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1RyPsceQwp/

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

Laconia Daily Sun has the latest...

https://tinyurl.com/3f9tn9ku

Just how stupid do you need to be to envision an amateur pulling this thing out? Outrageous that the state/town have not extracted this professionally and given the guy the bill.

Maybe try to show the guy a little mercy…sure he made a bad choice but all he wanted to do was go fishing. Now town officials and the state are threatening him with $500 daily fine and 12K recovery fee. Guy has few resources,….seems like someone might want too help instead of just battering this guy. Concerns about oil and gas pollution are very exaggerated. Marinas around the lake spill more gas and oil daily than that truck could possibly leak.

Couldn’t disagree more. He dropped his truck in the lake. Because he can’t afford to have it professionally done isn’t our concern. Pull it and bill him.
If I didn’t want to pay to have a few rocks removed from my property and dump them at the shore line there would be more problems then this individual is currently seeing


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I've dived on nearly 40 cars and trucks I've found and as to pollution it's only a matter of time before the gas tank fails due to pressure (squeezed air in the tank due to water pressure doubling every 33 feet), physical impact with say a boulder, or simply deterioration. Tranny fluid and anti-freeze as well.

Many are upside down so I can see exactly what has occurred and the status of the vehicle's entire undercarriage. Again-only a matter of time before fluids leak.

As to this guy I have little sympathy. He chose to drive on ice, often a very bad idea. He chose to do so with zero Insurance as the story goes-another very bad idea. He is trying amateur-hour tactics to recover it-often a very bad idea but maybe it will work.

As to hiring "experts", some years ago a guy from Andover, MA had his Explorer go through the ice on Saunders Bay. It took 2 wrecking companies to cut a slot in the ice to try and get it closer to shore by dragging it. Given the damage shown in other pictures I have the SUV rolled over during the drag and was badly damaged. That process alone could have easily ripped the gas tank off of it.

As to hiring experts, the rocket scientist in the picture is 1) Standing through the sunroof in a vehicle (which does not float) and 2) Standing in a vehicle that (does not float) that already suffered a snapped cable sending it to the bottom once. Who you hire matters.

The truck owner needs an expert recovery outfit who knows what they are doing to get it out. Doesn't matter what it costs-it's on him.

The problem is, you can't get blood from a stone. If he has no money and nothing of value that you can go after, all you can do is threaten him with jail time and that won't result in the truck being recovered. This is just another reason to make insurance mandatory before you get a registration in NH.

Excellent points. The truck still needs to be removed ASAP. Remove it and attach leans and fines for payment. NH registrations, NH licenses, etc…


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Unfortunately, insurance in this case wouldn’t help as the claim would be denied. This vehicle is not considered all terrain and should not have been on the ice. No insurance carrier would cover it…

Dan

That is what will happen should it take too long.

It's already been too long!

you beat me too it. It's just like if you take your new sports car to the drag strip and spin out and smash into the wall. Insurance won't cover that either. If your car isn't on a road, your insurance won't cover "extra" activities.

I understand it is not illegal to drive a pickup on the ice in NH, but I have to ask: how common is it to see vehicles operating on the ice?

Common, uncommon, almost unheard of?

If common then perhaps those who plan to do so in the future could and should ask their insurance agent to look into getting them a special policy which would cover removal expenses, if such a thing is in fact available.

If the truck is a four wheel drive, then insurance could maybe cover it. Some policies do, and some other policies do not cover this situation. In northern states like Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont it's not all that unusual for a 4-wheel drive pick-up to go somewhere off-road including a frozen lake. Need to ask your insurance agent if your vehicle is covered for this lake ice situation.

With Allstate, there's two big hands that reach down from the sky and remove your pick-up up and out of the deep lake water automatically, no problem, and no questions asked ........ ;)!

Based on the article in the Daily Sun, I didn't get the impression that this person even has car insurance

Well, this thread has 9114-views so far, so if each viewer donated two dollars, it would total $18,228 which could be enough to hire a barge and a tow truck.

Maybe a GoFundMe could get it done? Would you contribute five dollars to help get this truck out of Lake Winnipesaukee that is very very close to the Gilford town beach that is closed to everyone except for Gilford residents and surrounded by super nice homes and marinas? A very expensive new beach building with rest rooms is now being constructed at the beach to replace the old one that was demolished.

This Gilford town beach is an 1100' natural sandy beach and is the longest natural beach on Lake Winnipesaukee and Gilford has a Dept Public Works with all sorts of trucks and heavy equipment like a front end loader with huge wheels that could probably remove the truck by dragging it out with a cable and air-bags attached. The truck looks to be in shallow water and not too far out from the sandy shoreline.

No insurance, no money, and no brains, not a good combination!

I'm amazed at how many don't really know what is or is not covered. Comprehensive (Fire, theft, vandalism, glass, etc) and collision are not required anywhere unless you have a loan and your bank requires it. In the days before snowmobiles and OHRV, it was not unusual for people to have an old "ice car" for the lake, with the doors and maybe windows removed. Collision is collision. You hit something or something hits you. The policy doesn't say you have to be on an approved road. In the extreme, if you are drunk, or otherwise breaking the law, your policy still covers the vehicle and anybody you might hit. To deny, is "contrary to the public good". On the other hand, if you commit fraud to buy insurance, such as claiming NH residence instead of Chelsea, MA, some coverage, such as theft, could be denied, although the bank could still recover as a lien holder.

Good morning, assuming the truck is still in the water. As I have not heard anything. What is the trigger when the state says get it out of there and bills the owners? Who makes that call?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

N.H. Fish & Game does a lot of rescue work for hikers, fisherman and others who find themselves in a tough spot, somewhere in the New Hampshire woods, lakes, and mountains. The Town of Gilford DPW is right there, able and willing to remove the car so most likely it will be the local town dpw that does it as a town service.

Question of the day: How many foam noodles would it take to make this truck float up top close the lake surface? If you keep stuffing foam noodles through an open window inside the truck, will the truck eventually start to float? You know that using low priced 12" inflated beach balls from Walmart could have better flotation than foam noodles?

If your boat sinks the rescue guys have air bags to slip under and inflate to bring the boat to the surface. Easy enough for a truck.

We have friends who have a company that makes those air bags.

Truck sinks @ Varney Point
 

I guess there is something I am missing, but this vehicle has been underwater for almost a month, why doesn't the State "pull the trigger" and tell the owner they have 72 hours to get it out, PERIOD, after which the State will take charge and the owner will be responsible for ALL costs. To me, this is a no-brainer.

Because they know they won't get the money back. But at some point, they will have to pull the trigger and remove it!

Keep the truck and auction it off


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

It's gotta be worthless by now, right?!

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

Is it a Toyota Tacoma from 2015 or earlier with a 4-cylinder engine and a 5-speed stick. These can go to 500,000-miles here in central New Hampshire if they get undercoated every three years or so for $250 with NH Oil Undercoating at Truck Trends NH in Tilton close to Home Depot. Crashing through the ice and sitting on the bottom of Lake Winnipesaukee for a month means NOTHING to an old Tacoma ....... :D!

Is basically same thing as going to the car wash for a deep clean!

At this point the state should pull it and arrest the guy. Cut off a few too many branches near the shoreline and its off with your head, but a truck can sit on the bottom for a month without legal repercussions?

Why not see if some insurance company would provide salvage insurance and then require all cars going out on the ice to purchase a policy before they are allowed on the ice. If they are on the ice without a policy, they are arrested and their car confiscated. 100 cars paying $200 each would raise $20,000. How many cars go on the ice, on average? How many cars need "rescuing" every year? Set the insurance cost accordingly.

Then if they break through the ice, the insurance covers the cost of salvage.

Exactly. Where are all the “save the lake organizers” that scream and take before and after photos of your property.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

But isn't it the state's responsibility to ensure that thing is out of the lake one way or another? If yes, whether they get the $ back is secondary, the bill is going to jump sharply if the tank leaks

I don't know how far from shore this is, but I don't think immediately of a barge company that has an ice breaker. DES does not have equipment of its own. Sending divers out with a cable and just pulling could cause more damage and contamination to the shoreline/beach.

Someone said the sunk truck is about 3/4 of a mile from the shoreline.

At this point the State should take the bull by the horn and go ahead and yank it out rather than risking a potential pollution issue. They can bill the owner and threaten him with jail time if the bill remains unpaid after thirty days.

This story will have a very sad ending if pollution results as a result of not using quick action to immediately deal with it.

In some places driving out on the ice is common place, Having lived in Northern Vermont, I would see them out on Lake Champlain all the time.... As long as the ice is thick enough it isn't a problem (although I would never do it).... When I was living up there I never heard of anyone having insurance that would cover going through the ice..in fact most insurance policies state that coverage is only valid on public roadways.. Most people had older cars they used, and there where a few firms that would do recovery.

Cars going through the ice is nothing new, and that is why there are laws concerning recovery. With that said, think about this folks, if a car goes through and looses all its fuel, tranny fluid, and coolant.... once it dissipates how much does it really effect. If 100 cars go through than it becomes a different story....

With all that said, yes eventually the state should step in and remove it. But is it urgent like it needs to be done tomorrow? I don't think so unless it is a hazard to navigation. Should the owner be allowed to try and remove it himself, that is the big question in my mind... I don't think so because of the risk of pollution, but on the flip side of that even a salvage company runs the risk of damage causing pollution.

I am more concerned about the contamination that comes out of peoples bilge pumps all season long... While some boat owners do a great job making sure their bilges are free from oil and other contaminants most are not... but no one ever seems to start threads about that....

At the end of the day, in this thread it seems that people think this one car is the end of the world for the lake.... It isn't.... Do I think this case need publicity yes I do especially if the state steps in and removes the vehicle and bills the owner... People need to know these accidents have consequences...

Today's April 14 Union Leader has a story on it that I was able to read without a subscription for some unknown reason.

It says it is a Honda Ridgeline located about one half mile from shore in about 50' water depth, and there is also a snowmobile underwater, same spot, used to retrieve the Ridgeline.

It belongs to a local ice fisherman and it broke through the ice on Friday, March 13.

I believe the snowmobile was lost trying to retrieve the vehicle! :rolleye2:

Ok, I should have said trying to retrieve the Ridgeline.

Is important to note that no one drowned and there's no mention of any injuries in this 'ice break' incident. Eventually the Ridgeline and the snowmobile will be removed with basically zero damage to the lake, one way or another. Small amounts of spilled gasoline and oil float to the surface and evaporate into the air and sort of disappear with the wind.

In Massachusetts driving your car onto a frozen lake is not allowed. The local police will show up and inform you to keep your car off the ice.

That won't be nearly enough to cover the recovery.

I agree but I'm not the one making that decision.
The question seems to be, who will ultimately foot the bill.

Sorry FLL, the rolling eyes emoji :rolleye2: wasn't meant for you it was meant for the guy who lost his snowmobile.

I was told this snowmobile was lost by the same guy who lost the Ridgeline while trying to retrieve it.

Pro's should have been called in a long time ago by the town. They could of somehow put this guy on a payment plan to reimburse expenses the same way they do when taxes are owed.

When I lost a Polaris Ranger through the ice a number of years ago, I had three days to get it out. I hired professionals and got it out the next day in a few hours. They made it look easy!

Dan

Whoa--glad you were OK, must have been terrifying.

Mistakes happen, and government needs to be flexible or forgiving with people who are broke. But the mollycoddling of this guy is ridiculous

Old movie reference, but every time I see that the truck has not been removed, I'm reminded of the scene in Mallrats where Brodie keeps yelling "that kid is STILL on the escalator!"

The precedent this is setting—take however long you want to remove your toxic mistake from the people's resource—is pretty awful.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

I don't ever remember one allowed to be left in the lake this long.

ruck sinks @ Varney Point
 

I'll bet if someone said "I think there might be a loon chick in the cab" you can rest assured that the response would be lightning fast.

So it sank and is at the bottom?

Inexcusable.

(...far from shore...)

Was the Honda Ridgeline close to a ridgeline?

;)

some news
 

More details and link to a GoFundMe for recovery on the shoreline neighbor's Facebook page.

*Update: the GoFundMe appears to have been updated to be covering fines, not extraction. Not sure why the change, but thought I'd let peeps know.
https://www.facebook.com/share/18D7sGUnKf/

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

I couldn't make the youtube link function, but I saw the WMUR report on TV. They said no contamination hazard and removal was delayed due to ice and safety issues. Move along. Nothing to see here folks.

gofundme
 

So let me get this straight; the guy drives his truck onto the lake, late season and goes through the ice and he's expecting people to bail him out of paying to extract it? um....NO! I will not support your dumbassness and recklessness, not to mention polluting our precious lake to offset the inconvenience of coming up with the funds to pull out your own late model truck.

Ridgeline Below
 

Friday, April 17 ...... been a month since March 16 first day, weak ice..... better call Mike Nelson from SEA HUNT tv show to remove this 4500-lb Ridgeline from 50' depth .... RIDGELINE BELOW ...... one half mile off Varney Point.

Lloyd Bridges played that roll well he was always gasping for breath.

It could be that the guy doesn't have the bucks to pay to have a professional team of some sort remove it.

While you are looking for the truck see if you can find Tom Thomas's ski boat.

48 Hours
 

The truck owner was given 48 hours to remove it or the state will remove it at his expense. That 48 hours expires today.

From the Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...63b07f52d.html

A stand up guy who lost his truck in the ice and was broke would have stood up.

That day or the next, he would have gone to the town/state, apologized, told them there was no way he'd get the scratch, so he could not contract with someone. Then said he'd help in whatever way he can and he hoped they could show some mercy.

So unless you're going to report that he's mentally ill or has an intellectual disability, I'm all out of sympathy

I also think a GoFundMe from him saying, "I messed up and accept responsibility but need a hand to do the right thing" would have secured a significant portion of, if not all, the costs.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

long overdue!

Everyone want it gone, no one wanna pay?
 

So, what's the latest?

Is there a Winnipesaukee construction barge company with a big enough crane that will remove this Honda Ridgeline without getting paid in advance by the State of N.H.?

Anyone in the know, know what's the Ridgeline removal price and what's happening? With no insurance coverage everyone wants it out of the lake but probably no one including the State wants to pay for its removal and then get stuck without getting repaid back.

No crane is needed. A diver can float it to the surface with airbags and bring it alongside a large barge (not the pontoon these people were playing around with). From there a decent sized excavator can lift it up onto the barge. It's not complicated.

Tim could have handled this a while ago, the owner didn't want to pay.

Absolutely correct Codeman! This literally is about 3 hour job with the proper equipment!

Dan

That's the problem, someone has to commit to paying the bill, and I'm sure up front.

Latest update is that a contractor has been secured and truck should be coming out soon.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

Update: According to their Facebook post, Contracting Services Company will be removing the truck with the help of Dive Winnipesaukee on Thursday.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

He should start a GoFundMe while this is a news item and try to raise the five to ten thousand dollars removal bill. Is there a GoFundMe for this?

Insuring that old black Honda Ridgeline with really strong coverage with liability, collision and comprehensive could have cost about one thousand dollars per year in central N.H. If you gonna drive the lake ice, you wanna have strong insurance coverage plus wear a 99-cent foam noodle swim belt and drive with the windows down so's you can swim out from the submerged car ....... just in case! ...... you never know! ..... how strong is the ice supporting that 4500-lb Ridgeline!

Hey, he is apparently alive with no injuries and should have no problem making the money to pay the removal bill what with the super strong central N.H. economy .......... Live Free or Die!

You know that Massachusetts requires insurance and the local police will yell at you to get your car off the frozen lake ice in Massachusetts. They will say "You must be from New Hampshire because we don't do this in Massachusetts! Now, get your car off the ice!"

Today's LDS article:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...5fe4bc8da.html

Good article - thanks.

They have the right people on the job. Tom, Nick & team are the best.

The vehicle is out of the water. Pulled at Glendale.

Tim MacDonald looked at this right after it went in and the owner refused. Looks like Tim will be doing the job after all.

I'd really like to know the numbers here—specifically, how much the initial quote was vs. the cost after a month underwater and how much the owner lost in missed work/attempted retrieval costs/transportation, etc. vs. the final charges.

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

Probably took them a couple hours if I had to guess...Good Job!

Dan

Anyone want to guess what the bill for this will be?

I have no idea but would like to see what others think this ended up costing.

By the way, I for one am delighted it is finally "outta there"!

In the article linked above, the estimate is given at $4-10k.

It sounds like it went smoothly, so I'm guessing it would be on the lower end, though there were other entities involved that might not normally be (Dive Winni, etc.)?

Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

$5,000. If I had to guess…

I would do it for $10k.

Of course I lack the required knowledge, experience and equipment so getting the job done by ice-in is not a certainty. :D

Honda Ridgeline's have a V6 interference engine with a timing belt as opposed to a timing chain. The belt needs to be replaced after 100,000-miles which is complicated and will cost $1000. As an uninsured N.H. Honda Ridgeline it probably never had the belt redone so's crashing through the lake ice saved the $1000 belt redo job till later ...... like much later, and now never because the truck is total junk.

Was it a 2012 Honda Ridgeline?

WMUR April 24 has a video that closes with it loaded onto a flat bed truck and this Ridgeline actually looks to be a good condition except for a smashed roof skylight area. So, where does it go from here? Is there a market for salvage parts or what or does the car get crushed and shredded and then shipped to S. Korea to be made into a Kia Soul or what?

Maybe I missed it but it seems that the LDS has not identified the character who foolishly allowed this to happen, calling him only "the truck owner."

Why not publicly identify the guy when the incident was first reported?

Who is he and can he afford to pay the bill which is coming his way soon?

As long as you remove all the ice and snow from the roof and windshield of your car, New Hampshire says you are good to drive it on the Lake Winnipesaukee ice ........ :eek:.

I guess we will discover the truck driver's name when he is arraigned (which does become a public record) due to non payment of the removal charges.

I would assume the truck driver and truck owner are one and the same.

From the Laconia Sun:

“We have been in touch with the owner and the truck will be returned,” Martin said. “We will be seeking cost recovery from the owner. We will be in touch with him and sharing with him the cost of the operation, and working with him on recovering the expense.”

Tim McDonald said a recovery like this could cost between $10,000 and $20,000. He said his company submits their total cost to Green Site Services, who then passes the total to the state.


https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...eaf54b452.html

Concerned if others that create such an event will just say the hell with it and let the state and town handle it. Why bother with the headaches. You get the truck back. They don’t publish personal information, so why bother.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

The State can revoke your license.

self-insured vs insurance company coverage
 

If you are uninsured and receive a bill for say $18,000 from the NH-DES then you are expected to pay the full $18,000.

If you have strong insurance coverage then I expect the insurance company actually pays a negotiated price that's much less than $18,000 ....... maybe $6000 and the bill is considered paid by the driver, barge, and environmental and NH-DES..... or something like that.

An uninsured person is a self-insured person and will pay much much more than someone with insurance coverage..

Having strong insurance totally changes the results for the covered person. You are almost totally covered and the insurance company actually pays out much less to pay the bills. Is this an accurate scenario?

So basically, if you don't have strong insurance coverage it will cost you BIG.

Uninsured Motorists.
 

I do know uninsured folks that got into a serious accident. They usually leave their cars in the impound lot, buy a new car and continue on as if nothing happens. What ever happened to showing proof of financial responsibility in court, making them liable to pay? I think the state should crack down on these bozos!

Not only 'uninsured', but 'uneducated'
 

Maybe the State should have a section of the Boater Education program devoted to "your vehicle isn't a boat, do not go on the water (even when frozen)" (Probably wouldn't help.)