Winni Baygo at the Lake
 

I've not seen this new RV condo community discussed here, but it's been coming up on my Facebook a lot, and I'm surprised by how much the numbers have changed over the weeks.

The first post I saw, lots were selling for $200k, and then a few weeks ago they were "starting at $175k." This morning, there's a "Labor Day special" for $150k. That's a 25% swing in a couple months.

Has anyone seen this place? I wonder if they're not selling because of the price, property (from the photos, it looks very trailer-parky and bland), or other issues or if maybe we're starting to see the demographic that might normally be this customer getting hit by the economy...

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I heard 200K also, seemed very high, even 150K seems high to me but time will tell. Those condos looking over the High Octane look reasonably priced, $499K for 3 bedroom, 3 bath & garage. If you buy the in first phase at least the ones in front will block the view and possible some of the sound.

Just visited their website. If my budget for lake accommodations was $250K ($100K for used RV?), that is sure not how I'd spend it

We drive by there fairly regularly, but have never gone in. Can't really see much from the road as the entrance is up a slight hill, but they've been doing the site work in there for about a year, I believe. They recently put some landscaping out at the entrance, but it does not appear, (from the road at least), that there is anyone in there.

You can’t get away with a sale price on real estate. I’d think they have just created the new price at 150K.

There have been a few sales so far. One of them is the very top rear site and it already has a camper on it. Another one sold is someone with a motor home who used the site and then went on the road. The sites are mostly 1,500 Sq Ft. The developer spent a lot of money on site work and blasting but hopes to make some more sales as the summer season comes to an end.

There is another smaller more established campground in Weirs Beach near the traffic circle that has condo sites for sale. It is within walking distance to the beach, and the bars and restaurants. Those sites are 1,500 to 4,000 Sq Ft and are priced at about $150,000. There is already Laconia Planning Board approval to have that campground open year round.

Those condos next to the High Octane started higher and have had two price reductions to get to the current price of $499,000. The location is not the best and my concern, if I were a buyer, would be the noise from the High Octane and the numerous events held there.

I agree about events and noise, but if you buy the first ones it looks like two more buildings in front will block the view, and possibly some noise, from High Octane. They had a sign out front long before they started building saying, "new condos starting at 499K". I do think the crazy real estate market is coming to an end, maybe not a crash but a much slower pace.

Weirs the Beach at Winni Baygo?
 

One very GOOD reason to buy at Winni Baygo is that it's an easy short down hill walk to the Weirs sandy beach, and the beach is free to walk-ins. Parking a car at the beach costs $2.50/hr but pedestrian walk-ins go swimming, kayaking, paddle boarding ..... no-charge! .... and Winni Baygo is about a five to ten minutes walk away ..... hut-hut-hut ..... to the beach ..... beach .... beach ..... :cool:!

Seems kind of silly to spend that kind of money on both a site and a mobile home / recreational vehicle given it is only for seasonal use.

Why isn't it for year round occupancy?

Assuming one only wants to visit the lake for a week or two each year I submit a better plan would be a short term lake front rental.

Why buy a condo next to the High Octane when you could buy next to McDonald's where they also serve breakfast? :D

At 200K more! The one advantage is that it's in Meredith and not Laconia!

So... workforce housing then?

Could I get fries with that please?

The promotional material and advertising make this place look absolutely awful.This is not what RV people have come to expect in luxury Rv parks . The sites are on top of each other. This will be a problem area quickly. Who built this mess ?

So I looked at this quickly this morning, and I believe you are wrong to a degree in your assessment. Certainly their advertising material is not that good. After moving south two years ago and traveling around, you see a lot of these facilities. While this isn't your top of the line luxury RV park where the elite RV with 500K+ rigs are going to be going, there is a certain amount of the RV population that would be very interested in spots like this. Now here is where I see a short falls in this development:

1. Year around use is going to have a limited appeal give the location
2. Most people that chose the RV lifestyle and would like to own something like this, are going to feel trapped in the Northeast given the location, you are 2 days of travel to get out of the Northeast....
3. Is the renting of a spot going to be allowed? if you aren't using it all the time, is it just going to site empty?

I have looked into buy into something like this in the south... and the noted difference are:
-- Pricing has been considerably less expensive... although the monthly fees align..
-- They are established, and when not in use buy you, the management office will offer the site for nightly rentals, so you can generate some revenue
-- they are in locations, where you have easy access to major travel routes and can get out and explore the country.

I think the difference is that these sites are not meant for travelling RV's although I am sure they would be welcome. The Campground/RV parks in this area are predominantly occupied with park model campers that stay in place for the long term. Most owners move a camper in, put it on blocks, remove the wheels, and skirt the bottom so the undercarriage does not show. They are not going anywhere.

Having driven the trip to Florida many times I don't see it as "days of travel to get out of the Northeast." Washington DC is only about 9 hours and 500 miles, easy for most people in one day.

Allowing renting at this type of property, or even in condos, presents it's own challenges. Some owners who want a peaceful week at their camper might object to the AIRBNB family with 4 kids, a dog, a lot of energy, and a keg of beer moving in next to them for a weeks vacation.

There is no year round use at this campground and they would need Planning Board approval for that. The water and sewer systems would need to be buried a lot deeper than they are to prevent freezing. The other campground, near the Weirs traffic circle, has obtained Laconia Planning's approval but is not winterized yet.

If someone buys a site for $150,000 and spends $100,000 on a camper, that will give them a summer home in the Lakes Region at a relatively low cost. For people who would be challenged financially to buy a summer home it is a lower cost option. That works for some but may not be for everyone.

Whether it's for you or not, it's breathtakingly expensive to sleep in an RV on 1500 sq ft of land with 99 others abutting you, only seasonal.

New Listing
 

Most campgrounds in the area don't ask for 150K, plus 100$ per month either. A developer is trying something new in the area. I continue to stand by what I said, the market here is to get people that live in RVs, to purchase a spot as a base.... Some people that really enjoy the RV lifestyle will own multiple.... But when they aren't using them they are able to create income with them......

Also with the pictures provided from the unit for sale, the RV folks that might be interested in something like this are going to expect more then gravel lots.

All in all it is another attempt to make money because of the Attraction to the area.... While I don't think it will fail, I look for this "RV Resort" to under go many changes in order to survive.

Ok, now things are getting weird—here's a posting for the whole RV park.

This would only make sense if none of the sites have sold yet?!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4d015ee135.jpg

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Looks to me like investors are getting nervous and looking to bail.
I wonder if the old Surf Coaster will ever get off the ground?

Surf Coaster will definitely move forward. 155 units from $600,000 to $2.5 million. Something for everyone!

So let me get this straight--the price for the (relatively?) empty place is >90% of the total revenue when it's sold out at the current ask, and of course that's before the expense associated with carrying, operating, selling... :laugh:

I totally agree, my thoughts also…

Dan

Wnni Baygo open April 1 to October 31, seven months/year
 

From their website, Winni Baygo has seasonal water and sewer that matches the resort's operational calendar of April 1 to October 31.

No campground use or occupancy is permitted from November 1 to March 31.

"Individual sites have individually metered water and sewer hookups but these utilities are active only during the designated seasonal operating window."

"Storage: While you cannot stay on the property or use the hookups in the off-season, the resort does permit on-site off-season RV storage."

So, you don't get no opportunity to shovel any real snow ..... too bad! ..... shoveling snow is the #1 best winter activity!

Seeing all these pricey developments going up, I keep wondering when we will hit the wall? The vast majority of those projects have no dedicated lake access, docks or moorings and we're already at "Peak Lake" in terms of being to add more of those. Is the allure of living adjacent to Winnipesaukee, with perhaps a trip once in a while to a town beach, enough to support the level of housing being built? I guess we'll see, but the charm of moving to a rural lake recreation area is now long gone as the area develops into densely settled suburbia.

I had lunch yesterday with a buddy of mine in my home town of Waltham who owns dozens of apartments and is always in conversations with other landlords. He said this is the first time in 10 years that they all have multiple vacancies. He owns all his property outright, but many other landlords don't and have refinanced to buy more units over the years. Those landlords are getting worried.

There are investment groups that are exclusively campgrounds, mostly the newer luxury developments , we travel in a 44 ft Tiffin and stay at a lot of the newer ,higher end places. Nothing that is being built today is anything like this project. The lack of trees, the closeness of the sites, the lack of amenities it’s not even on the lake . This is just not the trend. The lack of interest in this project should not be a reflection of anything else being built in the area . This is just someone who got greedy and is going to fail.

I'm guessing there are still a lot of unsold lots if they're looking to lease/go seasonal. And $10k is almost double what I think most places are charging these days?

I know Hunter's Run (old Clearwater) is at $5k for the year. I know it's further from the lake, but given both would require a drive to the nearest marina...


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New Price!
 

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...6_M98825-02143 :eek:

They have invested a significant amount of money to develop the site and install the utilities. Even the break even number for the sale of sites, to recoup the investment, is substantial. They anticipated that the sites would sell quickly at the starting price of $200,000 and that just didn't happen.

The entire property was offered to a few national campground owners but that didn't result in a sale.

It remains to be seen what the market will support and where this will end up.

I see bankruptcy in their future. These campground investment schemes have taken hold in New England vacation areas but are running out of steam. The ROI just isn't there anymore.
I drove thru this one last weekend, they did a very poor job of making this attractive to campers. You can tell these investors know nothing about camping!

Speaking of condos that dont seem to be moving.I drive by Scott Everett’s new project on Elm st in Lakeport and see no sign of life in any of the condo’s.
The ground floor commercial space seems to be sold out but nothing going on upstairs. Guessing that they are overpriced

I hadn't seen that the lots have come down to $125k (from $200). I'd lose my mind were I one of the first buyers at $200k.

Arcadia properties have leveled out between $200-250k, and those almost always include a newish park model, stick-built porch and deck, golf cart, furniture, etc. along with private beach and boat ramp, bath houses and laundry, rec. hall, etc.

I would think these, given no actual Winni/lake access, sparse amenities, etc. would be closer to or under $100k.

That being said, I don't see anything attractive about this place for even the most competitive $5k seasonal cost.

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Three other condos that do not seem to be selling are behind the High Octane Saloon, Union Ave by Irwin Marine and next to McDonalds in Meredith.

I drive by that Elm St. project often and concur.

Living or even second homing over shops is nothing I would consider but someone will.

The are some very nice Adirondack style condos next to Watermark which have Paugus Bay frontage but are on busy Union Ave..

Also on busy Union Ave. are the condos that were just shoe horned into a hill side across from Irwin Marine.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I'd expect all of it to sell over time but...

Everything sells when everything is selling.

When the real estate market is zooming, unusual properties sell quickly.

For now it seems that the zoom is mostly gone.

The market is changing, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the condo projects that haven't broke ground yet stall out.

Things are slooooowwww...
 

Every local RE market is unique, but here is one data point: We have a small ranch house rental in Vermont. Put it up for sale 4 weeks ago. House 2 doors down sold in August...smaller house, no garage or basement, smaller yard. We priced ours less than $10K above what that house sold for and in line with the selling prices of the other comps. 1 month in and not even a single showing. Realtor there states that it is dead across every price range right now.

When local condos started to go bust in the early 70s I went to work for the banks. Someone had to pick up the pieces. I had some good paying jobs.

I think the lending market is different today, not as local. There's a lot of private investment money out there today.
I'm sure that Condo campground is a private investment fund so it's high risk and more likely to go bankrupt.
The good news, it could be a buyers' market next spring!

Someone misjudged the audience. I am sure there was an initial investment planned for to get the site ready, but then they banked on spots selling to continue to fund the project, and allow them to move forward with the amenity package. Which looking at the photos in this thread have not been started, so currently there is no:

Bath House,
Pool,
Laundry facility

etc.....

So yes right now I am sure, they are seeking every opportunity to get out from under a bad and poorly executed idea. Now interestingly if you start to play with some numbers there where 100 planned sites.... at an initial price of 200,000$ assuming all sold at 200,000$ we end up at a 20 Million dollar return.....they are now priced at 125K, so now it is only a 12.5 Million dollar return.... but that of course doesn't account for the initial costs for site work, adding in the amenities etc. Quickly the investment is loosing its appeal to whom ever funded the endeavor.....

With all that said, what would it look like as a campground operation..... lets say someone paid 14M for it..... 100 say 100$ per night, that would be about 1400 nights at 100% capacity.... oh wait and the campground would only be able to operate 6 months a year or about 180 days.....that say roughly about 8 years to break even.......Huh no wonder no major campground organization wants to take a look at it.....

All in all someone is in the process of loosing their shirts and they are trying to find a way out of it with out loosing anymore skin then is neccessary.....

Does anyone know what percentage of the chicken coop condos between Endicott and Tower Streets have actually sold?


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Out of curiosity...

If someone BUYS one of the lots and the Baygo company and they go bankrupt, What happens to the parcel that was purchased?

Exactly--Arcadia's a beautiful place for $200-250K....They were dreaming to price these at $200K

The high flying Real Estate market seems to have maybe leveled off. The question now is will it go lower and exactly how low is the low ?

A few percent may be okay, but if it hits ten or twenty percent lower then a lot of folks may be hurting -- especially those who purchased within the last year or two!

I've seen it happen in 1981, 1987, 2001, and 2007. We're overdue at this point.

I suspect the high interest rates are a key reason for slow sales / rentals.

Random thoughts
 

Some random thoughts and opinions:

The apartment market is flush with vacancies. One thought is that deporting 2.5 million people over the past year means 2.5 million fewer people looking for housing.

There are 20 units in the the condos Scott Everett did on Elm Street in Lakeport ranging from studios at $359,000 to one larger unit that sold for $850,000. There are about 10 left for sale. I don't see the appeal of living over a commercial property but some people will.

The condos across from Irwin's on Union Avenue are stuffed into a small lot on a busy street. They are all 2 bedrooms with only one bathroom. That will turn off a lot of buyers.

The condos next to the High Octane may be a tough sell. My first concern would be the noise, especially late at night from the music and entertainment. The second building will block much of that from affecting occupants of the first building but the second building is even closer to the High Octane. John Turner, who is the co owner of the High Octane, is also in the construction business and has a crew in the new condos every day doing the interior finish work. Small world!

Although much of the real estate market has cooled off, Florida is still doing well. It is estimated that 950 people a day move to Florida and they all need someplace to live. I have a friend who is a realtor in the Fort Myers area and does very well. He has already had 74 closings this year and has 17 more under agreement at this time.

Everyone I talk to that visits Florida complains about traffic, no thanks!
I imagine it will reach a saturation point, and prices will collapse.

I grew up and lived in a small town 14 miles north of Boston for 56 years. The Winnipesaukee house was a weekend house. Friday nights head to the lake, Sunday nights head home. And that was before toll transponders so there was a miles long backup at the Hampton tolls every Sunday afternoon. I understand traffic!

The traffic in Florida doesn't bother me a bit, so you must not have talked to me. :) There is way less traffic than there is in much of New England. There is a new development project called Kingston being built about 8 miles east of where my FL house is. It is planned for 10,000 homes!

The scenery and year round green landscaping make most Florida drives pleasant, an occasional slowdown doesn't bother me. I do try to travel outside of commuter hours, some of the residents still work.

Regarding the trajectory of the real estate market...

I have participated as a buyer, seller and holder during several up turns and down turns.

When selling in a down turn I have seen sellers drop their asking price repeatedly until frustration brings capitulation.

If one imagines a charted line of market prices that are dropping on a linear or worse yet, parabolic rate.

In that situation one can sell more quickly by getting ahead of the decline with a lower than market price.

I have watched friends trying to sell their property by following the curve down with ill timed price reductions.

Nobody wants to capitulate early but if one can swallow one's pride the carrying costs and uncertainty can end sooner.

It was going to sell at that price or lower anyway, just get there sooner.

The longer a property sits on the market the less likely it is to sell. All the warts are out there already. Brokers don't want to show it, and buyers feel like there's something wrong with it, so they avoid looking at it.
Those are just the kind of properties I look for! Usually, you don't even have to get a home inspection because it's already had one or more.

RE correction
 

Yeah, I 100% agree. Timing is impossible to predict of course but the entire economy is propped up by AI buildout and that will top out within a year or two. As in 2008, the markets always anticipate these things BEFORE the reality.

That buyer retains their campsite. However, depending on how the association documents are structured, the association may have the right to sell all of the “units” to a single buyer. Given that the single buyer likely controls less than 1% of the vote, they could get forced out.

Of course, there has only been one closing, back in June, so that it is just as likely that they could be made whole, given that legal costs may not be worth the hassle for whoever ends up controlling the association.

There has also only been a single closing for the units near High Octane, also back in June. The units across from Irwin Marine have had zero closings.

There is NO WAY I would consider buying into one of these developments right now, given the unknown status of who will control the unsold units. You could buy into a mess, at almost any price. If they were to get auctioned all at once, that might be a better time to think about buying.

It’s galling how the place on Union Ave. has or had a sign saying “ONLY TWO LEFT” or something similar, trying to suck people in with the scarcity principle. That’s why I had asked if anyone knows the real number or percentage sold of the chicken coop townhouses units next to Cumberland Farms at the Weirs. They pull/pulled the same craven nonsense.


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Hey, everybody, exciting news!

There's an open house tomorrow from 11:30-12:30 so y'all can pick out your dream lot!

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I shall bring my two person Coleman tent and see if it finds the place agreeable. :D

I feel bad for the realtor—the listing is getting absolutely skewered in the Facebook post.

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I do not--the realtor is a professional who was happy to offer these at grossly inflated prices. While the "buyers are adults", "the market price is whatever people will pay", yada, yada, yada...Those who act with this type of pure market mindset bear the reputational risk that comes with that

Caveat Emptor :look:

Many people do the same thing when they attempt to sell their homes. Give the realtor a price that the realtor knows it won't sell at, but the realtor takes the listing anyway hoping that as time passes reality sets in and the owner agrees to reduce the price.

In this situation, there are not a lot of campgrounds in the area that have gone to a form of condo ownership that could be used as comps to establish value.

I agree, that the starting price of $200,000 was wishful thinking but I think that the current price of $125,000 is more realistic. The size of the sites, about 1,500 Sq. Ft., could be a concern for buyers too.

There is another smaller campground on Weirs Boulevard near the traffic circle that is live on MLS. The sites are generally 2,000 to 4,000 Sq. Ft. and the trees are still there. The pricing looks like $135,000 to $150,000 and I would say the location is better. The short walk to Weirs Beach and the Boardwalk has to add some value, as does the possibility of keeping a racked boat at Northwater Marine. Both of those things could be a plus to the right buyer.

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...a_NH/type-land

I wonder if anyone showed up?

I don't know, but the post is no longer up.

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They had some interest and there was at least one sale.