Not one MP seen on the lake all day
 

We launched at Lakeport yesterday morning, drove through Sally’s Gut then stopped at Stonedam Island for a swim.
Drove down to Alton at pretty much WOT slowing down briefly on the back side of Sleepers.
We had lunch at the seafood place next to the docks.
Except for those at the West Alton sand bar we could not have seen more than 10 boats on the lake up to that point and the Alton docks were empty.
We left Alton and drove up to Rattlesnake Island to look at a new construction, then on to Sleeps to another site and a chat with the builder.
From Sleepers we drove between Long and Sandy Islands then under the Long Island bridge and over to Braun Bay. Again we saw almost no boats out on the lake and maybe 40 at best in the bay.
We left the bay for a stop at the Nazwa and some food which we should have skipped because it left me loading the boat on the trailer in the rain.
We did not see one MP boat from the time I launched till the time we pulled out the boat.
Are they cutting back on manpower? I do not recall if I’ve ever spent a summer day on the lake and not seen several boats, or at least one in the area of the major docks.
I’m not complaining as I just wanted to burn as much of the 65+ gallons of last years fuel off as possible.
The only thing that could have made yesterday better is a little wind to kick up some chop. I didn't mention you could have waterskied across the Broads which makes for a boring ride.

I have a friend in MP who told me that they didn't hire any additional help this summer due to budget cuts. However, I recently checked the State of NH's HR website and they are hiring for this upcoming season.

The Marine Patrol were at my place yesterday checking out my moorings. They do it every year on a mid-week day. I hear them on the scanner all the time.

So that explains why our neighbors got a visit (and I think a ticket) for their moorings yesterday. Interesting that a raft at a nearby house didn't get the same treatment.

We weren't sure if maybe someone dropped a dime on them.

Maybe it's because the officers were concentration on mooring enforcement? And do you seriously think someone would "drop the dime" on someone for having an unregistered mooring?

I could absolutely see that with some of my neighbors - close quarters on the lake make for some interesting relationships. I couldn't figure it out in this case though because the ones who got ticketed aren't usually involved with the petty neighborhood bickering that goes on in our area.

Good point! It was probably just a concentration of the officer's that day. If someone really did complain about an unregistered mooring ball, they clearly have nothing better to do with their time :laugh:

WinnipesaukeeNH...

Your kidding right? Of course a neighbor would drop a dime (about anything) on a moments notice nowadays! Just ask the folks over on Ames Farm! There is definitely a "me first" or "I have mine so screw you" pervasive attitude on the lake....

Woodsy

I haven't experienced that on the lake...yet. That's just really sad that people are that bored and willing to screw someone else over for a mooring ball...

Mooring ball enforcement
 

The MP checks my mooring ball for proper decals every year too. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that some one ratted them out. This is simply routine enforcement. On the other hand, the regs require you to get a permit, and if you don't, you get what you deserve -- a sticker on your unregistered MB that tells you to remove it or lose it (and risk confiscation of anything attached to it)...

As an aside, rafts don't have to be registered anymore - that was a one year thing that went away. You just have to abide by the rules regarding placement but don't have to register them.

Calm and Sunny, Yielding to Hot, Hard Rain, then Lightning!
 

Nope—me neither—and I was out sailing The Broads from 8-AM to Noon.

I'm also constantly editing a log of the boat traffic this season.

At one instance yesterday, I counted 13 powerboats and four sailboats (maximum) as far as I could see. (More than half of the acreage of the lake).

I was greeted by them a few years ago—but it wasn't any of the usual MP boats. :confused: THis happened shortly after Mitt Romney was widely criticized for his so-called "swim-line".

I was asked if a row of boat fenders I had attached to my dock constituted a swim-line!?!? :confused:

I've seen worse than that! Neighbors, supposed "best friends" one has a lawyer serve papers that a piece of their roof-line hangs over their property line! :laugh: Can't make this up. Roof gets fixed, friendship OVER.

My wife and I are up on the lake this week on vacation and we were out Tuesday, Wednesday and today and haven't seen any MP's out on the water yet. I'm not complaining and I'm not breaking any laws, just saying we haven't seen any yet. :)

Last week
 

And this weekend. I have yet to see the MP. Where are they?

The CB's were having a field day! :(

Marine Patrol
 

Saw them over near the Long Island Bridge earlier today....

On Saturday afternoon we saw one near the GI Bridge and two rafting together near the AKWA Yacht Club. On Sunday we only saw one in Meredith Bay. Maybe they spent all of their budget on the new signage in Braun Bay.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Saw one in Alton Bay off Echo Point around 3 in the afternoon.

This weekend
 

I was out on the Naswa boat Saturday. Not very busy at all, and the weather was quite nice. The only bonehead was a Rinker cruiser coming out of the Weirs channel as we were heading in. He passed throttle down on our port side at about 30 - 40'.

Oh, and the PWC's bombing around wave jumping the big boat's wake pretty close, but not too too bad.

We went out on the Mount today. Saw several MP's. One between the Weirs docks and the beach, another out between Bear and Governors, and another out in Alton Bay. Very light boat traffic, I never expected so few boats on a weekend.

Unpredictableness...
 

After a VERY long absense, MP-7 came by here—at about 12-knots—late on Sunday afternoon. (Made a big circle tour, leaving a very large wake). :(

Very shortly afterwards, a second MP (RIB) came by—making the same tour. :confused:

While you're out watching and counting boats for three hours or so APS, why don't you make mention of what you see out there? Ratios of sailboats to powerboats doesn't seem very useful, but whatever floats your boat :laugh: I saw virtually all manner of craft yesterday on the lake, from the Weirs down to Alton and back. I saw several that violated the letter of the laws, but they were in good shape for safety. I saw boats slow down when needed (at least they were aware), A few go fasts traveling at fair speeds out to the broads, one was a little obnoxious as he headed towards Eagle I. All in all, I'd say boating traffic was about half of what I had expected to see.

The MP boats I saw were definitely not as interested in stopping anyone (unless they had to), as they were monitoring and observing. Sometimes, like about a year ago, you just have to put everything up on a shelf and do some real research. Most anybody could tell you what the hot spots are in terms of boat congestion. It would appear the MP's are interested in seeing what's happening, and possibly jotting down their thoughts.

Without even being on the water there last year, it was pretty apparent where the MP's needed to step up their visibility. Weirs outside channel. Done. Eagle Island/Governors. I might add, while being on the Mount, I witnessed confusion by many boaters around the Eagle/Gov NWZ. The Mount is roaring up to the spot, and boaters up ahead clearly look like they're confused as to getting out of the way quickly, or be run over. :eek: It happened both on the way out and the way in. I could just hear the skippers of the boats in front of the Mount.

Saw one of the military style, twin 150hp outboard boats puttering past Mark Isl at about 4pm.

Whille they look like a r.i.b., a rigid inflatable boat, believe it is a welded aluminum hull with a black flotation collar so it only looks like a rib. Remove the inflated collar, and the aluminum hull works fine without it, except the boat would have no floatation and would sink IF flooded.

Does that make it a 'spare rib' because the flotation collar looks like a large black tire inner tube? :rolleye1:

Constructed in a boatyard in Missalugaville, Mississippi, or someplace....no doubt that style military-police-commercial boat probably has some type of a trade name???

Very few boats
 

I'll note that I saw the gray RIB down in Alton on Sat night during the concert. Other than that I didn't see much of the NHMP but I think that's about right given the lack of boat traffic this (past) weekend. I raced from Alton to the Weirs to make FFVI, worried that I'd be floating about waiting for a slip. Turned out the Weirs was empty, just 2 other boats and the Mee'n'Mac at 11:45 on a Sat afternoon ! When we got back there may have been 3 or 4 other boats. On the way back I saw perhaps only 6 other boats that came within a mile of me. Obviously the threat of T-storms kept most people off the lake (though Wolfeboro was busy). With few people out and about I'd expect the MP to "park it".

Their presence is nice but it might be a little safer if they did something.

Just before dusk on Thursday we watched a swimmer in the middle of Alton Bay inside of Sandy Point cause havoc for about an hour. Several times he missed becoming chum by less than 50 feet as several boats veered away just in time. A neighbor called Glendale and about 15 minutes later we saw 2 McRibs come into the bay. The swimmer was gone before they got there however the MPs sat there for about an hour tied together. We then saw 2 PWCs come flying around the Sandy Point marker heading towards the gazebo with attached running lights. They passed the MPs at 200ft +/- and they did not stop them. Maybe the law has changed since I took the test.

What law?You don't describe any violation.

He said it was just before dusk, and he also stated that the PWCs had attached running lights. "Dusk" can be debated, so it depends on if it was later than 1/2 hour after sunset. Also, I believe that PWC are not allowed to operate after 1/2 hour after sunset, even with lights attached.

We had three MP boats at the Timberman for Saturday and Sunday morning.

My Bad, should have explained it better.

The PWCs drove by both McRibs in the dark. I thought it was illegal to drive them at night. They later passed around 10:00pm

Boats vs skicraft
 

Actually if the PWC is a three person PWC then it's a boat not a "skicraft" and so would be allowed, with proper lighting, to operate after sunset. Funny thing is just last week "Mee" pointed out 2 such PWCs headed up Alton Bay just after dark, with sidelights and an all around light on each. First time I'd seen such beasts. I'm guessing they're the same ones Kracken saw.

You know, that is a great point that I hadn't thought of. I have always known that 3-seaters are classified as boats, but for whatever reason, just didn't think I could put lights on mine and be legal after dark. I have a feeling my wife is not going to be too happy with my next purchase....lights! ;)

There was no mention of it being dark chip.
This was something forum members debated a few years back.Are PWC's with lights allowed to operate at night?We recieved mixed thoughts on that one.I'm not sure I would use mine even if it was clarified to be perfectly ok.As M&M mentioned,mine is registered as a boat.

I am sure the McRibs saw them, so they are either legal or they are not enforcing the law. If they are designated as a boat, they should be allowed on the lake with proper lighting.

The ones I saw in Alton were not 3 seaters.

Initially, he said it was just before dusk. MP showed up 15 mins later and hung out for an hour. During that time, the 2 PWCs passed them. That is how I surmised that it was dark.
Then he posted this....

I am not saying it would be the safest thing to do, but there have been times when it is getting close to being "dark" when I have pulled my PWC out of the water. Therefore, IF it is legal, and if I can find some kind of light kit, I might keep it on board just in case I find myself in that situation again.

I suspect that the reason PWCs (Pronounced: "Pwicks") don't have running lights has more to do with physical size of the vessel and convenience of installing lights on it, than anything else. Part of the LAW says the "All Around" white light has to be at least 3.3 feet (0ne meter) above the combination red/green lights. There is probably a horizontal minimum distance between the two as well. Where would you put that mast where it would not be a safety hazard to the rider..who might "slide" off the seat inadvertently, or otherwise "dismount". :look: Woo Woo...

Maybe a look at the actual Law as opposed to the Boating Handbook, would reveal more about powered vessels UNDER a certain length...as a category, rather than "PWC". Just wondering. NB

PWCs with lights
 

I don't think there is any reg re: horizontal spacing between the sidelights and an all-around light. The reg I recall is that boats must have sidelights (red/green) a masthead light that shines forward and 22.5 deg past abeam and is at least 1M above the sidelights and a stern light shining aft and somewhat abeam (to the above 112.5 deg). For boats under ~40' the masthead and stern lights may be replaced with a single all-around light, 1M above the sidelights. So I think a 3 person PWC with an all-around light high enough would meet the regs. Frankly I see a lot of boats, including the McRibs, that don't appear to meet the 1M vertical rule. So long as the all-around light is visible 360 deg at all times I'm sure you wouldn't be written up. As to where and how to mount said light ... the ones I saw had them mounted on a pole just aft of the seat, just where a tow pole would go.

We saw the same ones

I think the reasoning behind a "seperation" between the Red/Green and the "all around" white light is to lend Perspective to what the "other boat" sees. It gives a sense of the length of the vessel and the changing Perspective (angle), gives the "other vessel" an idea what angle/course "Our" boat is steering. The principle is difficult to describe so it that it makes sense. :(

If there were no seperation rules required between the Red/Green and "all around" White.....then we could put ALL our lights on the same pole anywhere on the vessel. :look: NB

Page 48 NH Boater Guide Boating Laws and Responsibilities

Ski-craft may be operated on any Lake, Pond or River during DAYLIGHT HOURS (Sunrise-Sunset) ONLY.

This is why manufacturers do not equip them with Nav lights at the factory.

However not all PWCs are considered to be ski-craft. 3+seats is a boat.

Chip,


I finally took my boating class last Saturday (passed, Wife did to) and the Instructor mad a point of saying the Sunrise to Sunset applied to PWC as well. I would agree that the book may not be clear on this.

If you look at pages 10, 11 and 30 (small Handbook) None of the illistrations of how the Navigation markers are used shows PWC at night. I might say that the absence of a PWC tells the story?

Hello Skip!!!

Nice but not necessary
 

I understand what you're saying and it makes sense but I've seen all manner of mounting for the sidelights, ranging from true sidelights on either side of the cabin to the usual combo red/green on the bow. The former, combined with a masthead light, are often seen on big cruisers and are almost aligned fore/aft. Smaller boats usually have a pole light near the stern and the combo light, which might lead you to believe (at night going by their lights) that they were a bigger boat than the aforementioned cruisers. While it might be nice to have some uniformity in this regard, I've not seen it nor do I believe it's required by law. If anyone knows differently please informs us all.


Yup, check out some sailboats, especially those with taller masts.

YUP..M & M. This discussion is interesting but probably not Resolvable. FWIW: My boat is a 20' Donzi Classic......And has a FOREDECK.

I have a Combination Red/Green at the bow.

I have a removable "mast" just ahead of the windscreen with TWO WHITE lights at the top. One is a white light facing foreward that exceeds 180 degrees. That same light can be switched to make it a full 360 degrees..ie..Combined: Now an "Anchor Light".

The boat also has a White light "built in" to the TRANSOM which is less than 180 degrees.

When I am underway at night...I have the Red/Green ON, the Mast Light ON ... @ something OVER 180 degrees facing forward.....AND the White Transom light ON. The factory switches on the dashboard pretty much dictate what my choices are. NB

I Can't find this EXACT combination of lights in the Boating Handbooks. OH WELL. You do the best you can......NB

All Formula boats are built with the white light on the windshield and white light on the stern. You will find this combination is applicable in the US Power Squadron handbook.

You are absolutely correct George, there is no absolute rule for or against a 3+ seat PWC with lights being operated at night. The laws in NH are very vague and open to interpretation. We the civilians have to interpret it, the MP has to interpret it, and if issued a ticket (and it is fought), then a judge would have to intrepret it. It sure is interesting, at least to me it is.

Your setup is the requirement for boats >12meters, and certainly permissible on smaller boats.

Under 12meters it's permissible to use an all-around mast light (located behind the driver) instead of the separate stern/forward light.

New Hampshire law defines a “ski craft” as any motorized vessel that is less than 13 feet in length, is capable of exceeding 20 miles per hour, and has the capacity to carry no more than two persons.

“Ski craft” may be operated on any lake, pond, or river during daylight hours (sunrise to sunset) only.

It is illegal to operate a “ski craft” within a cove (a bay or inlet that does not exceed 1,000 feet at its widest point) or within 300 feet of shore unless the “ski craft” is proceeding at headway speed directly to an area where “ski craft” operation is permitted.

So if the PWC is 13 feet or longer and carries 3 or more riders and is equipped with running lights, it appears it is legal. Now the McRibs did not stop the PWCs so I am guessing they didn't have a tape measure.

Just to bring this thread a little further off topic. This little tidbit has confused me for a while.

"All Vessels When Not Underway are required to use a white light visible for 360 degrees and from a distance of two miles whenever they are moored or anchored away from dock between sunset and sunrise."

Now it would be insane to think all moored boats need to have there anchor lights on all night every night. But one that comes to mind is the large sailboat on the east side of Alton Bay. That boat is pretty far from shore and is not lit (personally I think it would be ridiculous to require it). But according to the law it should be? Please correct me if I am wrong here.

moored and anchored boats
 

That is NH legislation for you. They could never get it right! Just like the overnight anchoring law. They say you can't anchor overnight yet this law says you can if you have a white light on.

If the state was smart, every law should pass a judical test. I.E. Make sure it is black and white and it can stand up in court. Not contradictory and not conflict with other laws. You would think every law would have to pass through with an OK from the DA's office. Nope. Not in this state. I hate to be the judge. :eek:

I would fire this to Lt. Dunleavy. He would probably say only anchored watercrafts needs an anchor light. Moored boats do not.

A number of mooring fields on the lake have flashing bouys to warn other watercrafts. You would think there is a law that mooring fields have flashing bouys on the outside of the field.

I have never heard of a watercraft smashing into a mooring field on this lake. I can remember reading that it had happen in another lake. :eek:

I took my Safe Boating Certificate test 5 or 6 years ago. I believe I got one wrong.

The question that got me was about who is responsible for damages done by a PWC. The owner or the operator? I put down operator and got it wrong.
By the way both was not and option.

This is probably splitting hairs but a "Moored" vessel is one that is on a "Mooring"...which is a semi permanent anchoring device. Moorings are not usually located IN the Fairway/Channel but in a designated "mooring field".

A vessel that is "Anchored" is on a temporary anchoring device and may require an Anchor Light if anchored in a area that might expect traffic at night.

There's just too many stinkin rules already.. but it's nice to know what some of them are. :)

Remember in the early days of the automobile when they were still a novelty? My grandparents told me. :) They were required to have "Parking Lights" when parked in the street at night. NB

I looked for anchoring/mooring laws in the NH statutes online and could not find anything about lighting. Perhaps it's not NH law.

You can find the laws here: http://www.boat-ed.com/nh/

Don't forget NH has laws and rules for boating.

The laws are mostly here:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...70/270-mrg.htm

And the rules are here:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rules/saf-c400.html

When people talk about something being illegal, I always ask myself, what will the LEO write on the summons. He has to list what law or rule you broke.

I was up at the lake two weekends ago, renting a little cottage near the Weirs Channel. After motoring around Paugus Bay for a bit, I was heading toward the bridge, but hadn't yet reached the NWZ. There were several boats in close proximity. One of them was MP. When he stopped me, I was momentarily indignant, but I knew he was right. 150' rule. He treated me fairly.

They were out in force that day, and really, that's not a bad thing.

Good point.
 

I can see why I was written up because the young MPO insist my navigation lights should be on while anchoring. It never hit the court.

There is a USCG rulling on this as all power boats have to adhere to a certain configuration. Boats under 12 meters may have the 360 degree white light.

Since this is not a NH law. maybe Skip can enlightened as to what prevails in a NH court.

Here is a good one.
 

I was waterskiing in Glidden Cove Tuesday. As usual, I would drop of a ski about 200' away from the dock. As I was skiing over to Sleepers and back, a MP rib pulled up near the dock and left.

When we got back to the dock. I realized the ski is gone! We looked everywhere for it. We suspect, maybe the MP picked up the ski. Which is unlikely as in the past, they never have.

A call to MP hdqtrs confirm that the officer picked up the ski and will return it. An hour later, it was returned and the MP comment that the ski is a navigation hazard and we shouldn't be leaving the ski behind! WOW! A new rule? I can't ski on a single ski any more??? There were no boats on Glidden Cove but mine that day. We were not endangering another boat.

Seems like a slow day on the lake....................

To keep the MP happy about not leaving a waterski floating out there, maybe try a one-ski, dock start. Sit on the edge of the dock with one ski with about 15' of tow rope slack and yell HIT IT.


And, off you go on one slalom ski......piece-o-cake......so easy even a fatlazyless can do it!:laugh:

I've heard that some people will paint the bottom of their "leave behind" ski bright orange so that it stands out in the water. I'd hope that any sensible boater would put together the following: skiier behind boat w/ one ski, nearby orange object in the water.

It almost seems to me like a totally unware MP officer..... the only defense for picking up your ski, is that he didn't see you skiing.... people have been dropping skis forever, and then comming back to pick them up..... sure you don't drop it in the middle of the six pack but as long as it is out of the boat traffic lane and you come back and pick it up it isn't that bad.....

Now if the MP was that unaware that some one was actively skiing, then I wonder what else he/she is missing while day dreaming on the water.

Now on an aside, I see tree branches in the water that pose more of a danger then a ski.... I wonder if the MP is picking those up....

Use to do that before the 150' rule. One of the perks that was outlawed..........

I'm pretty certain the law has a provision that still allows it.

Agree,
You can pull a skier from closer than 150 if the boat is headed straight out. (The wake never comes ashore)

Can't find the provision
 

I'm sure Skip can help us out on this one.

I'm not Skip but:
 

The RSA is found here:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../270-d-mrg.htm

and is found in section D:2.VI.b.1. or there abouts:)

Thanks Upthesaukee
 

Thanks for the clarification! If I should get pulled over, as some of my colleagues have gotten warnings, I will bring this up!

I was good at taking off from the dock. I was also good at taking off from the beach and 'landing' on the beach! Although this provision did not say anything about being able to do so.

okay one more question
 

I thought that our boating certificate instructor told us that you can't start from shore or a dock. But if you can, I have one more question. We live on a point, where our dock is parallel to the neighbors shore. Several times this summer, the renters next door have been starting skiing from shore or close to it. They are also well within 150 feet of our shore and dock where the wake does hit our shoreline and boat (they are starting out straight from their shore but because of our point they also are starting out directly behind our boat). Is this legal? I ask because the wake is really pulling on our boat and in turn our boat is pulling on our crank-up aluminum dock. I hope this makes sense, I'm not good at drawing diagrams like Dave R.!
I'd appreciate an answer so I know whether or not to tell them to stop. Thanks.

The laws is pretty simple:

VI. (a) ... all vessels shall maintain headway speed when within 150 feet from:
(1) Rafts, floats, swimmers.
(2) Permitted swimming areas.
(3) Shore.
(4) Docks.
(5) Mooring fields.
(6) Other vessels.
(b) These requirements shall not apply when:
(1) Starting skiers from shore, docks or floats, as long as neither the boat nor the skier is endangering the life or safety of any person.
...


BH as I read it, it's ok to start a skier from shore or dock but not drop them off.

Regardless of what the law says they can and/or cannot do, they shouldn't be doing it. If it upsets your boat and dock that much, they should have the common courtesy to not do it.

If the law is in question? One must ask the question about damaging or disrupting property at a dock.

Possible to ski in
 

It is possible to ski in. The boat may be 150' out. You ski in on the 75' of rope and let go. Ski as much as you can before losing momentum.

As for damage to shoreland and dock. It is my property so I take responsibility of damage. My neighbors are beyond 150' of my dock.

The point is, MPOs seems to enforce to 150' rule even though there is a provision that exempt skiers when taking off from a dock, raft or shore SAFELY.

It's legal but regardless, they are still responsible for the wake their boat makes if I understand the law correctly.

Thanks for the responses!
 

Now that I know that it is legal to ski from shore, I won't complain about that! But they are still accelerating the boat within 150 feet of my side of the shore, that doesn't count?

As long as they are pulling a skier and head immediately away from shore that is ok.

Ambar
 

The newer boats they are switching to are Ambar AM800's, built by Silver Ships in Mobile, Alabama. Their website is http://www.silverships.com/
Lots of great info on this site and info and information about the collar.

I have a three seater 1200 PWC and i was got caught out late last year returning to the island. When i was pulled over by MP, they were very nice, informed i was out too late, so i explained the situation and they were very good about it to me. Followed me back to the island and let me go. At that time he informed me that i could register my PWC as a boat and put lights on and use it whenever I wanted. He gave me a bunch of reasons which i dont remember, but it summarized to that my PWC met the specs that made is permissable.