Lake Level Too LOW!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Well as of 9/6/09 they have the lake down almost two feet from "Full Lake"......now I can't get my boat off the lift and out of my boathouse - will now have to take my boat out of the water later this week......ridiculous!! This is pathetic that they have to lower the lake this much so early - why can't they wait til October? Why does this happen?

My neighbors are fighting the same battle. Any insight is appreciated!

Normal
 

The level for this time of year is almost perfectly "normal" and right in the center of the plots over the last 20 years.. so the dam operators must believe that this is the proper level for the first week in Sept. It would seem that "normal" is too low for what you would like - but every year they are going to shoot for this same level for early September...

http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm

Actually, according to the attached link, the lake is 1 foot below full, not 2 feet. "Full" is 504.32 ft if I remember correctly. Today at 2 pm it was at 503.31'. As stated above, this seems about normal for this time of year.

http://www2.des.state.nh.us/rti_data/wein3_TABLE.HTML

Nah -- it's pretty average for this time of year, after being a bit higher than usual for much of the mid-summer.

How's that cyanobacteria action? (SKEEVED)

Whether the level is "average," "normal," or "right for this time of year," it is too low for me to get my boat out without walking it away from the dock and out 30' from shore. I wish they would leave it up about a foot from where it is now, but so be it. I'll deal with it and pray it rains and snows all winter.

Technology marches onward and downward
 

Amazing! We now have mechanized methods of lifting boats at their dock but of course they must be preset to a certain level to "accept" the boat and then allow the boat to be "free". Unfortunately the "lake level" doesn't always cooperate with the "lifters" settings that the boat owner set. Deal with it!:laugh:

Hmmm.....
 

The rule on the bridge in the channel (Weirs) shows the lake at 2' below normal. We went by this twice over the weekend and checked it both times. Seems one of the measurements is wrong. It does feel like the lake is less then 1' below full.

Jetskier:cool:

Not 2 feet lower!
 

We put our post dock in when the water was at its highest with the bottom of the dock just above the water level. The water level is now about a foot lower which is normal for this time of year. We just have to make sure to trim the motor up while at the dock. If we had a permanent dock it would be 10 feet shorter and I'd have a bigger problem than just timming up the motor.

only proves that marinas/boat yards will be busy because people will be hitting things when the water is low. winter work here we come...:D:D:D LOL

sorry but thats the way it is when the water level goes down. good luck on the lake

I have friends that live in a shallow part of the lake, after a number of years (including one where they had to leave their crusier at the dock over the winter and set up fans to battle ice) they got rid of the cruiser and Cigarette boat and went with a jet drive bow rider that is able to get in and out of their dock no matter the water level.

DES Chart 9/8/09
 

Here is DES Chart, and if I read it right, we are above the mean level for this time of year.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...WEIN3_PELV.jpg

Maybe time for a new normal
 

The lake has been lowered at a rate approaching and exceeding 1000 cfs over the last few weeks to reach this "normal level".

What is so critical about lowering the level one foot by Labor Day? Maybe, the dam operator or operators, who maintained the lake level at boater friendly levels most of the season, can explain. Would an October 1 date work for the lower level? It certainly would extend the boating season, and help out the local economy.

Thanks in advance.

Husband was just bellyachin' about the same thing over the weekend! I think they should wait a few more weeks too.....

Too Low? Be glad for what you have!
 

Take a look at Smith Mountain Lake in Bedford / Franklin counties, Virginia.

This is 'Lake Winni, south'. Remember the Bill Murray / Richard Dreyfuss 1991 movie, 'What About Bob'? Takes place on Lake Winni, but actually filmed at SML.

I've spent the last 8 summers there.

It's a pumped storage hydro power project, build and run by the electric power company.
Their permit requires a certain water flow downstream, even if drought conditions result in less water entering the lake. So in the southwest Virginia droughts of 2007 and 2008 the levels dropped by the end of the summer (into October, summer lasts longer there!) 3-4 feet!

Had to set the boat lift on the bottom to get the boat off. And hope the level didn't drop too much while we were out.

And when there is demand for hydro power the level can drop a foot during the day! (HOT July weekends, 90+, create huge electric demands). The pumped storage part refills the lake overnight, so Sunday AM the level is almost back to the Saturday AM level.

So a day-to-day fluctuation of a foot or more is common!

See this link to the water levels:
http://www.smithmountainlakelevel.com/SMLLevelWeb.exe

Change the first date to 2006 and see how it dropped 3-4 feet from full pond in past years.
2009 has been kinder.
Then set the dates for say Sept 5 - 9, and see how it fluctuates up to a foot in one day.

Accent on the "FIT" part.
 

From this photo taken earlier this season, I'm wondering if a neighbor of mine won't get a benefit from a lower level! :confused: ;)

Peak of tropical storm season
 

Just how low is it??
 

After watching the lake level drop so much in the past couple of weeks, I decided to have my boat pulled a week early this year. I weight 18,000 lbs and draft 5 feet and we have a 30 ton crane at the club which can lift me easily at short distances. When I came into our usual lifting spot I ran a ground about five feet out, the boys at the club struggle and struggled to lift the boat and at one point had the rear outriggers completely off the ground. They had to re-set the crane three times and drag the boat over the bottom until they got it close enough to lift. That was five hours for three men to to get one boat out.

We have been hauling this boat out in the same spot, with the same equipment for ten years now and never had as much trouble as we had yesterday. So, don't tell me the lake is at it's normal depth... Had I known it was going to be this much hassle I would have had it hauled two weeks ago.

BTW: They have two more big boats like mine to get out, but the owner want to stay in a couple more weeks for some fine fall sailing... If we don't get a major storm in the next few weeks it looks like they be wintering over in the lake again this year.

Totally agree that the lake is way too low. Likely, that's a good part of the reason why we still have a bad bacteria problem of GLOEOTRICHIA in our cove, so bad that we won't go swimming. I kayaked way out almost to Rattlesnake Island and still saw it floating on top of and in the water. Nasty stuff and, according to the state, toxic. Whoever is responsible for lowering the lake this much should explain.

Compared to a 27 year average, the lake level is almost exactly at the average for this time of year.

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis.../graph2009.jpg

Ummm, maybe you should take it up with the big guy upstairs? We've been rain free since August 29th.

As so many posters have already pointed out, the lake level is actually normal (or slightly above!) for this time of year. And if you're looking for someone to blame for the high bacteria in your area, forget the lake level... start with all your neighbors who clear cut their lots to the water's edge.

tooooo low
 

we are already bottoming out at our marina in the first week of sept when we come and go. the lake is too low no matter what the spreed sheets show......

Lake Level Too LOW!!!!!!!!!
 

Okay, how about this for an answer: Maybe there have been changes to the bottom which result in an apparent lowering of the top because there is less water.

If I am correct, the standard Full Lake of 504.32 is calculated "as over mean sea level" at the top of the Lake, not necessarily a depth chart.

If, for some reason, there were changes to the bottom, ie., sandbars, etc., near the shoreline, this would have the effect of creating less water which would look like the Lake was lower, but not actually the case. I lived on the Lake for a number of summers, and there was a small brook that emptied into the Lake about 10 feet from my dock, and, when I would check the depth with a stick gauge I found the depth to be less after a heavy run off event.

Now, maybe some hydrology/geology scientists can chime in and straighten me out.

So everyone is concerned about the lake level which when measured by DES is currently 1' below full lake. The lake has always been at this level this time of year. I don't understand why this seems to be such a shocking revelation. Now do I need to remind you at this point last year we where almost 4 inches lower then we are right now.

The DES information is here: http://www2.des.state.nh.us/RTi%5FHome/winni.asp

I also looked at the DES website and saw that just before the weekend they throttle back the output at the dam. Which means right now they are trying to find the balance that will keep the lake at the current level. This means, that when we get some more rain the lake will rise proportionally.

If you have been around the lake for any amount of time you will realize that this is normal lake level. So trim your motor up and proceed to your docks a little more cautiously.

As for people with boat lifts. Here is your problem, you but you boat lift in assuming full lake. This is not a good practice, you should install a boat lift assuming low lake, and make sure the lift has enough reach to get the boat out of the water at full lake. In short to think that you can put a lift in and have it always work is ridiculous.......you have to plan for it, and if it is not a permanent lift on pylings plan on moving it once a year to keep it in deep enough water.

Too Low, Too Soon
 

With the damkeeper's ability to control the level of the lake, it just seems unnecessary to draw down the lake so early in September. I'd rather see them wait until after Columbus Day to draw it down to below full lake. It seems there's plenty of time to get it to an appropriate level for the fall/winter/next spring.

I will not disagree that they should be able to leave the lake at a higher level longer. However they seem to run the dam and lake level off of Historical data which indicates the lake is right where it needs to be. Now the real question becomes what would have to be done to convince DES that they need to deviate from the normal historical operation of the dam and lake level.

If People really want to see this change they should start asking DES questions.

probably helping with the bacteria
 

If you want to blame somebody for the bacteria, start with the folks with the nice green lawns. I don't see how flushing water out of the bowl would create those kinds of problems.

A theory
 

I am puzzled by the "perception" that the lake is low. When I look at the usual tells that I use, it does not give that impression. What does seem different this year is that we spent much more of the year at higher levels. Perhaps it is the recent faster rate of change that makes it seem lower. It is more like when your kid grows 6 inches in one summer, you really notice it. Obviously, this does not explain why people are having trouble with their boats. It would seem they would have this problem every year.

I like it when they keep the lake about 6 inches below full. My dock is happier in the waves and the prop is happier above the bottom.

Maybe it's the bottom and not the top?
 

There may be two things going on here.

1) The original poster may have only experience with recent early-season levels, which have been higher than historic levels. (Perhaps reflecting a new philosophy on keeping the lake "fuller-earlier"?) :confused:

2) I, too, have a brook that has dumped a small "alluvial fan" of sand into the lake. (The below "alluvial fan" example is of Planet Mars terrain).

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:P...luvial-fan.jpg

The sand increased somewhat since an immediate-neighbor's McMansion was built three years ago.

I never bothered to measure the depth there since a nearby driveway "major washout event" took place seven years ago. That "event" reduced the boat clearance for everybody along the shore within 200'. I kept my ample depth, while finally getting a sandy beach! The depth at the nearest dock forces renters to raise their boats' drives—something the previous owners never needed to do with their Century Raven inboard.

(That driveway's only "repair" was to add a dozen cubic yards of still more sand!) :eek2:

In Sum:

The original poster (and his neighbors) may only be familiar with the most recent early-season depths—depths that were incorrectly calculated to provide adequate late-season depth for the boat. (And if it's the original boat).

Or recent uphill construction has incidentally raised the bottom closer to the top.

:look:

Hydroelectric Contract
 

Rose,

Thank you for the NOAA chart showing a peak number of storms by Sept 10 for the 100 years period, but how many of these actually impacted the Lakes Region?

While staying at a marina during the mid 90's, I was told by one of the owners that a contract required the release of water from the lake to provide power for hydroelectric generation downstream. This accounted for the lower levels late summer even during drought conditions.

Does anyone know if this is part of the reason for the "normal" low water levels this time of year?

Global Warming
 

Definitely caused by global warming

Show me proof!!!!!!!!

I couldn't find a list specifically for tropical storms which affected the Lakes Region, but here are the stats I found for New England from 1800 to present:

June - 3
July - 4
Aug - 10
Sept - 18
Oct - 5

No, the numbers aren't huge, but the peak is in late August into September. Perhaps we should be grateful they don't lower the lake sooner.

The lowering of the lake is guided by several factors. Let's give the dam operators the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're doing and acknowledge that it can sometimes be a difficult balancing act.

Fo an up-close look at the Lake Winnipesaukee outflow take a drive over to the new Walgreen's. Over in Laconia, the now under construction Walgreen's store & pharmacy has a very nice parking lot out in back. New pavement, granite curbs, grass,,,,good design and construction.....and it fronts for maybe 200' directly on the Winnipesaukee River which is the outflow for Lake Winnipesaukee as it outflows toward Lake Winnisquam.

Gazing into the medium slow moving water yesterday there were some small schools of bait fish and sunfish swimming around, across the grassy, sandy bottom.

Most of the industrial debris like old pipes and concrete blocks have been removed. An ancient 100-year old rotten wood dock which abuts the Walgreen p-lot still remains.

The outflow current looked pretty slow compared to June & July. The Walgreen's Laconia parking lot:: a good spot to drop a fishing line or launch a kayak or fill a prescription. Pssst....keep it quiet!

And, right next door to Walgreen's, directly on the Winnipesaukee River, and sharing the same parking lot is the large and over-flowing Salvation Army second-hand store. You could probably buy an old fishing rod & reel in there for two dollars, walk out the door, and catch either a smallie or a salmon in the Winnipesaukee River.

Will Walgreen's be selling worms?

Maybe this issue should be addressed by members of the "Lake Owners Association" and they can vote on what the lake level should be on a given day. Perhaps there are people that have purchased recently (within the last 10 years) and they were not given due notice as to what level the lake would be at certain times of the year.

9-10-09 Lake Level 503.26 Full Lake 504.32
http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis.../graph2009.jpg

:rolleye1: ... ;)

From Bizer: http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm

2009 Actual Deviation Outflow at
Date Height from Norm Lakeport Dam
----- ---- --.-- TEMP ---- ---
07/02 Thu 4.35 + .20 68 1684 CFS
07/09 Thu 4.49 + .40 67 1587 CFS
07/16 Thu 4.15 + .03 70 1331 CFS
07/23 Thu 4.03 +0.00 71 1010 CFS
07/30 Thu 4.33 + .39 72 1020 CFS
08/06 Thu 4.36 + .50 74 1557 CFS
08/13 Thu 4.07 + .23 73 1532 CFS
08/20 Thu 3.70 - .04 77 1085 CFS
08/23 Sun 3.66 - .01 77 1082 CFS
08/30 Sun 3.57 - .03 71 985 CFS
09/03 Thu 3.45 - .09 70 995 CFS
09/10 Thu 3.26 - .17 69 642 CFS

"Global Warming" is passe, too cold. You have to call it Climate Change now, it covers all weather.

I for one am happy with the lake at its current height, the past few summers the water has been too high. That, combined with boat wakes has caused much erosion of the shore line and silted up the water.

Lake level
 

I also noticed the lake is low, is it at its normal for this time of year, good possibility but in two weeks it made it so my 16'5" runabout went from a floating unit to a grounded out unit that I had to push off the sand. I know that last year I had to push the boat out before labor day. I think the hills put so much water into the lake this summer, more than normal that when it stopped flowing the water just went down fast. My 2 cents.:cool:

Wow, you mean I get to vote on something?
 

A bit of sarcasm in the title but,..... I doubt they would let non-resident owners vote on anything.:rolleye1:

Awww ... darn .... :D

No vote
 

It is a crying shame, but it is what it is.:(

answer to lake levels
 

see if this clears things up and gives some a name to complain to.Somehow I dont think they will be to concerned about the boat bottoms.:( http://www.broadviewcondos.com/WaterLevel1.htm According to Steve Doyan of the New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services, the fall 2001 Lake Winnipesaukee water level has been at the lowest level on record since 1965. Mr. Doyan is the person who is officially responsible for control of the the lake water level.

Control of the Lakeport dam that maintains the lake water level was transferred from PSNH to the state in 1958. Certain covenants require that a constant lake outflow of 250 cubic feet per minute be maintained but maintenance of a certain Lake water level is not part of that covenant. The covenant's mandate is only for maintenance of a sustained outflow.

Certain Broadview owners have had their boats subject to damage due to these extremely low water levels. One boat suffered from a punctured hull while at it's slip and was sunk.

All boat owners are strongly encouraged to monitor lake water levels in an attempt to prevent similar damage.

For more information contact:


click here Steve Doyon
New Hampshire Department of Environmental Services
6 Hazen Drive
Concord, NH 03301
603-271-1966
email: sdoyon@des.state.nh.us

2002?
 

that site (Broadview) was last updated 7 years ago and the most recent data on the graph is from 2001. At this time, the lake is not at the lowest level since 1965... In fact, again, the level is normal for this time of year.

... Reminds Me About....
 

the guy that took his town to court for building the sidewalks too close to his butt. :emb:

He didn't win either! :)

clearing up my piont
 

[QUOTE=TomC;105972]that site (Broadview) was last updated 7 years ago and the most recent data on the graph is from 2001. At this time, the lake is not at the lowest level since 1965... In fact, again, the level is normal for this time of year.[/QUOTE I agree TomC ,The levels are around normal as per historical data,but there are discrepancies,I too have seen the weirs channel ruler and it showed the water down at least a foot and a half unless I saw it wrong,but , The info I was trying to emphisize was the fact that water levels are controled for higher purposes then boating enjoyment and shoreline property inconveniances.Below is the paragragh I was referring to.
Control of the Lakeport dam that maintains the lake water level was transferred from PSNH to the state in 1958. Certain covenants require that a constant lake outflow of 250 cubic feet per minute be maintained but maintenance of a certain Lake water level is not part of that covenant. The covenant's mandate is only for maintenance of a sustained outflow.

I resided on Smith Mountain Lake, in Moneta , when they were filming the movie. I was told that they filmed it there instead of NH, because they wanted a place with a later fall for filming. It was fun because I saw the actor'rs when they were filming. Winnipesaukee is certainly more pristine than Smith Mountain Lake ( in my opinion) and the water is much clearer. Of course as you know SML is man-made. I loved how long the fall was though in Moneta. I use to skull and I remember rowing in January. My boat tipped over and of course the lake was extremely cold, but it wasn't frozen.

Virginia, right?
 

I assume you mean the SML in Virginia. It does look a lot like Winni., except for the higher mountain profile. Perhaps NH should try to get more filming done on Winni rather than subbing out to other states.

Nah, don't wish for that. Massachusetts gives a 25% tax CREDIT for every new dollar of spending a production studio brings into the state. It's a great deal, for the studios. A credit is different from a write off in that you don't even need to pay any taxes to get your money. You just document how much spending you brought in and the state writes you a check, out of its treasury (taxpayers money). To prevent the studios from running up to tax free nh to buy stuff, the state also waives the sales tax for all production related purchases. Somebody has to pay that credit, unfortunately its us poor slobs who live here and pay taxes.:(

(Sorry for going so far off topic, I'll stop here....)

Normal
 

43 years on the lake, same frontage and small beach.. This is quite normal and will go lower. Not sure exactly what there is to fight? Mother nature ALWAYS wins.. compensate

You miss the point. Mother nature did not lower the lake level this year, and perhaps it is time for a new normal this time of year.

Well if you want to get that twisted about your issue with the lake level then I would say "mother nature didn't build the dam that made Winni's water level higher than before man intervened".

Exactly My Thoughts As Well
 

As I previously stated, I'd like to see lake draw down start after Columbus Day. Now, how do we go about making that a reality?

Alton Bay Webcam
 

Hello All,

Browsing through the webcams this morning, I got that "Whoa!" feeling when I saw the Alton webcam. Looking at the rocks that the dock rests on, it looks like the lake level dropped quite a bit in a short time period. I usually look at the webcams every day or every other day. Today was the first that I saw a significant drop :eek:

I agree, White Rock. I , too, suddenly realized yesterday and thought the same thing! Whoa!, When did that happen. And I have BEEN here!

Downstream?
 

Do they need to provide a certain amount of water for the people downstream?

We say the lake is waaaaay too low. For those of us who live in shallow coves it presents lots of problems, not the least of which was my husband almost breaking his ankle trying to get in his kayak from the dock this morning. In addition, quite a few neighbors have taken their boats out early and won't be back this season. How could this possibly be good for our economy?

God bless them all leaving early..I love indian summer and no boats

If you want to make this a reality here are the steps I suggest.....

1) call DES and find out who is in charge of A)the Dam control, and B) the entire watershed

2)Find out why the control the lake level to this level at this time of year. This is very important and you must completely understand why it is they do what they do.

3)Find out if there is a formal way to seek an audience with both the Dam Controller and the person in charge of the entire watershed.

4)Discuss your concerns, and also have them explain any details that you don't understand form step 2.

5) go home and think about everything you have learned.

6) Draft a formal letter of concern stating the problem, identify that you understand why the proceedure is currently the way that it is. Then relay your purposal for change, and try to plea you point as to why this change would be of minimal inpact.....

Nope this isn't easy, change never is. And yes someone is going to have to become very educated on the watershed to understand why they do what they do. But if you truely want to change things this is what it takes.

Currently they have a reason and historical data to back up what they are doing. I watch this lake all the time and have done so for 20 years. I have no issues with the lake being at its current level. I have seen way to many years where the lake starts rising agian because of showers and storms in Spet. Oct. and Nov. If you want to change things you need to convince the dam people that if the lake stays up for 2 or 3 more weeks, that they will have the time to shed all the water, and any additional water that may accumulate to reach there goals later in the year. All of this off course is in addition to not overfilling the other lakes in the watershed, and keeping the rivers where they need to be.

There is a lot that goes on here, to assume that the dropping the lake to the point they do this time of year just because, is not a good arguement. They do it for reasons, in controling the watershed they aren't just trying to make the people of one lake happy, they are trying to make the entire watershed happy. There are dam maintence schedules to keep etc. etc. all this work needs to happen yearly....

ok I have gone on long enough

Quote from LI
"If you want to change things you need to convince the dam people that if the lake stays up for 2 or 3 more weeks, that they will have the time to shed all the water, and any additional water that may accumulate to reach there goals later in the year."

I really don't think we need to resort to name calling. I am sure the people that run the water flow control structure are very nice people.


HAHAHAHAHAHHA sorry, couldn't resist!

PS I agree that they should probably wait until after Columbus day or so.

dam tour
 

Everyone's favorite dam tour...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhs_-XOP2ZA

exactly what I was thinking about!