Light Pollution

[Citizen Caine]

Does anyone know if there are local ordinances concerning light pollution around the lake? We face two communities that have, what we and many of our neighbors consider to be, overly bright to the point of obnoxious, lights that ruin the otherwise beautiful nighttime sky. Neighbors of ours have asked the community representatives several times over the past two or three years to either replace the bulbs with lower a wattage or shade the lights so that they shine directly on their own docks without dominating the entire skyline. We have even offered to reimburse the community for the cost of doing either or both. Every request has gone completely ignored. Short of vandalism (no, we're not seriously considering it) we don't know what else to do. I understand that they have a right to protect their own property but I would think that their rights end, or at least should be curbed, where ours are so overtly intruded upon.

[GTO]

I don't know if there are any such laws but if there were, that would sure put the Weirs area out of business. I live in a community (don't know if its one you are mentioning) that has been approached by people from across the way asking to do something with our dock light. We have tried low wattage bulbs, tilt the light downward, even put a switch on it so we could turn it off, but unfortunately, even here at the lake, there is always the possibility of vandalism. Our light also makes it easier coming in at night to dock. Don't get me wrong, I love to look at the night skies as much as anyone, but we need our sense of security.

[Tyler]

"Every request has gone completely ignored."

Evidently the town where you live does not think this is an issue, sorry but in a Democracy (rule of the majority) thank God, this is the way it works. If you can muster enough support for your issue I am sure the town will look into it. Until then "that's the way it is" someone very famous once said. Good luck! .

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Check out this link, http://www.mv.com/users/lopez/nhcrl/ It's a New Hampshire group, I know there is certainly a problem in Weirs Beach especially with that new mini golf course!!! I hope a group such as this one gets involved, make things interesting.

[Kona Bay Girl]

2 weeks ago I got to view the Milky Way for the first time in my life. There's barely a Big Dipper in MA.

Let's keep the view that way.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

It is very distressing to find bright lights right next to the lake and shining onto the lake. When boating after dark it really interferes with a person’s night vision. Is it really necessary to have ones as powerful as a street lamp, even when no one is outside using them? Or so many that it looks like a landing strip, on all night long?

[Merrymeeting]

I have, unfortunately, come to the conclusion that this is one of those topics where there are 2 polarized views that will never come together. I am amazed at the number of lake lots that are lit up like parking lots at night, all night, even when the residents aren't there. We have several places on our lake that have spotlights shining out into the lake, totally blinding you when boating at night. Others shine up into the trees and sky so much that you can't see anything else.

But if you talk to them, they will strongly defend their need for the lights.

I vividly remember awaking lakeside in the late Fall a few years ago at 2 AM. Most camps were closed up and there were, for the first time in my memory, no lights to be seen along the visible shore lines.

I couldn't believe how light it was outside, and got up to look at the moon. But the moon wasn't there. Just millions and millions of stars. So many that I could see the lake and opposite shores perfectly. All from starlight. It was spectacular!

If everyone could see it like this just once, they might be convinced.

[Cal]

You're right , I too have seen some very bright nights on the lake. But nothing beats a clear night with a full moon...almost like daylight .
But the light debate could easily turn into another noise dabate . So I'll stay out of the rest of this and just lurk

[Tired of Waiting]

Originally Posted by Kona Bay Girl

2 weeks ago I got to view the Milky Way for the first time in my life. There's barely a Big Dipper in MA.

Let's keep the view that way.

Ah but we in the western part of Mass have those beautiful stars. Well, you do have to live in the country hills like I do, not in the cities. Here in the hills the only lights around are the ones "we" control.

ToW

[Miss Cow Island]

Not sure where Kona Girl lives, but I see plenty of stars on the coast, near the NH border.

[upthesaukee]

There is something about being out on the lake without any moon, and seeing the stars seemingly so close you can touch them. Unfortunately, it is getting more and more difficult around any of the land masses (shores or islands) to see these stars because of the lighting on shore. Subtle accent lighting, coupled with motion detector lighting for when you really need the lights would go a long way to improving night viewing, not to mention energy savings. But, like Cal, I think I will get out of this before it becomes a heated discussion where no one will end up being right.

[Citizen Caine]

Originally Posted by GTO

I live in a community (don't know if its one you are mentioning) that has been approached by people from across the way asking to do something with our dock light. We have tried low wattage bulbs, tilt the light downward, even put a switch on it so we could turn it off

GTO, based on some of your other posts it is a safe bet that your association is one of the ones in question. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but have you actually tried the options you mentioned or just talked about them? The light looks pretty much the same as always from our perspective.

I somewhat understand your desire for security but does the light really need to be that bright? I hadn't even thought of motion detection but it seems like a very simple and elegant solution. What do you think, can we work something out?

[Silver Duck]

To muddy the waters a bit further, there's a safety aspect to white lights along the shore, too.

Based on several instances of nearly needing to have somebody's bow surgically extracted , it seems a bit difficult for some folks to tell the difference between a (white) stern light and somebody's (white) dock light.

Silver Duck

[Kona Bay Girl]

I live in Urbania, Massachusetts. Basically there are a lot of small businesses, but just enough large parking lots to cloak the sky. I can look out at night and see a horizon of red, that's how light it is.

(Urbania being a non-existent place, but you get the gist.)

[GWC...]

The bright white lights are indicative of a cheap property owner, of which there are a lot at the Lake.

A sodium light will easily satisfy both sides of this issue.

It’s a simple matter of money and if you check the Webmaster’s Dream Cam Fund total you will clearly understand my point – be they property owners or not.

[Skipper]

I agree that there ought to be a law about encroaching on private property by unnatural illumination by others. Like everything else where will the laws stop? We have talked about boat rafts. Anchoring. Beach rights. Cutting trees. Feeding lawns. Motorcycle noise. Offshore boat noise. Loud music. And now lights.

We all want our own space. We all want to do our own thing. You can't legislate everything including cooperation and consideration for your neighbor.

I also agree that the lights at the mini golf at the Weirs Logs of Fun are too bright and distracting to drivers.

[GTO]

Anything is possible. Of course, being in an association everything has to be voted on as I'm sure you are aware of. I have sat in the meetings and your concerns have been raised. We have tried different things such as the tilting of the lamp, shut off switch. We have tried to accommadate. I would suggest you approach the president of the association again and discuss ideas (sodium lighting, sensor lighting). I know he is a poster on this forum so maybe he is already reading this but I will send him a personal e-mail. By the way, I am in the (SOB) Association just so you know.

You can't send me a personal e-mail here so that we could discuss this further because Don has me on Double Secret Probation from earlier posts on a different subject.

[Island-Ho]

I don't get your point. It costs more to run an incadescent 'white' light all night than it does a sodium light. They are both very distracting, especially when left on all night. There was one on the end of Long island that could be seen from most anywhere in the broads. Fortunately it has been redirected or turned off. Thank you! Now if someone could do something about the one on Mink, like aim it back at the cottage, or put it on a timer, I could send a thank you there also. Have you ever seen the Northern Lights from out on the lake? Spectacular, when there are no lights to interfere with viewing.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by GTO

We have tried different things such as the tilting of the lamp, shut off switch. We have tried to accommadate. I would suggest you approach the president of the association again and discuss ideas (sodium lighting, sensor lighting). I know he is a poster on this forum so maybe he is already reading this but I will send him a personal e-mail.

Our neighbors here in Hollis pay monthly to have a streetlight. People on another street had a problem with the light being too bright, interfering with stargazing. The electric company was asked to paint half the light black in addition to a lower wattage bulb. Painting it made all the difference. The parties involved are satisfied.

[BroadHopper]

I've been having trouble navigating at night as it is hard to find the light bouys. And it is hard to find another boat!
There should be rules against having flashing lights and/or green or red lights. It can be very confusing.

[Brookhurst98]

GTO,
I don't talk to people who want to control other peoples property and rights.
The deal is I don't tell them how to live and they don't tell us how to live.
Case closed.

[Citizen Caine]

Originally Posted by Brookhurst98

GTO,
I don't talk to people who want to control other peoples property and rights.
The deal is I don't tell them how to live and they don't tell us how to live.
Case closed.

Wow! So I'm guessing the smooth talking Brookhurst98 is the president of "the association" in question. Does everybody in your fiefdom think the way you do? If so, I can see why you need the lights for security. You might want to consider beefing those lights up and stringing some barbed wire around the place, maybe a guard dog or two. Nobody is trying to control your property or rights. We are merely asking you to be considerate of others, or maybe just give it some thought, something that apparently does not come naturally.

Hey Bluto, um I mean GTO, once you get off Double Secret Probation maybe you should think of running for president. Sounds like it would be a better place without Napoleon98 running things.

[dpg]

What's a Sodium Light?

[Lin]

I cringe everytime someone sets up another bright brilliant unecessary outdoor light. Sometimes they can be just so obtrusive. When our town allowed a light industrial building to expand into residential zoned land one house away from us, their lights (which were not what was in the ZBA/planning board plans approved) literally lit up the inside of our house they were so bad. I did some research and sent off info to the planning board on lighting and light pollution. Our lighting problem was addressed and drastically reduced. They now use information from the sites I'd given them for other projects that come before them now.

http://www.darksky.org

http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/~graff/nelpag.html

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by dpg

What's a Sodium Light?

It's a relatively large, efficient light fixture with a low wattage requirement. The Sodium-vapor light puts out an orangy light. A similar light, the Mercury-vapor light puts out a white light. Both are most often a stand-alone fixture, mounted high.

Across the water here, I see a neighbor who has one of each. One illuminates his four Jet-Skis at the shore and the other illuminates the "Railroad Crossing" sign at the back door.

I once lived in a city where the night sky was entirely orange -- for fifty miles -- from Sodium-vapor street lights. Planet Venus could be distinguished, but most of the stars were obliterated except for Betelguese.

You'd think that our regional power outage this summer would have made the sky "clear" again, but no. The McMansions' emergency lighting engages whether there's anyone home or not, and the stars go away again.

It's been forty years since I could walk home from a Winnipesaukee neighbor's, guided only by "Starshine" -- the light from the stars. We've become citified.