Ice out, ice in, ice out. . .

KTO · 02-24-2005, 09:39 PM

What would ever happen if ice out occurred and then several days later the lake lake was solid again? Would it still be called ice out? Would there be two ice outs? That's pretty weird, and certainly wouldn't go back and forth over night, but let's just say that after a slightly warm period of time, ice out occurred, and then it dropped in to the chilling negatives and froze again? That's weird. . . thanks for any responses in advance

KTO

Chris Exley · 02-24-2005, 09:58 PM

1) Ice out is when the Mount Washington can make the trip to all its ports. That's an awful lot of water that would have to refreeze.

2) Ice out typically occurs in April. The sun's angle is just to high. You may get many days below freezing, but you are also getting more daylight, and the energy would keep the water from freezing.

KTO · 02-24-2005, 10:26 PM

Hmm. . . I suppose that is true. . . but, and I may be getting to in depth with this, if it did occur what would happen? I mean you never know what could happen, there could be clouds in the sky for three straight weeks, for example and it may remain freezing day and night. Or what if ice out happened today because of some bizarre high temp week, chances are it would refreeze, am I correct?

Just curious. . . but if I am getting carried away. . .do tell!

upthesaukee · 02-24-2005, 11:42 PM

With the $3.5 million at stake for the correct ice out date and time, I can understand your concern. Of course with dinner for two at a local restaurant or a gift from the store, or having your name posted as having guessed the closest to "ice out", it really doesn't matter. Fact is that ice out is when the Mount can travel ice free to all its ports. It's a fun thing, not something that anyone is going to get rich on. Don't think you will find anyone that will buy ice in for a second time, and then a second ice out. An interesting thought, albeit a fleeting thought.

glennsteely · 02-25-2005, 07:03 AM

Small bills, in 30 gallon twist tie garbage bags, if its not too much trouble, cause I guessed the correct date and time, I am sure........this is sort of like the %#@*!# vs. the Patriots in the superbowl......no one remembers 2nd place.

Lakegeezer · 02-25-2005, 08:01 AM

In the spring, right about the time of iceout (middle two weeks of April is normal), the tides on the lake are at one of their high points of the year. Spring tide its called. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1407 > This keeps the water moving enough to prevent the ice from reforming, along with the strong sun as was previously mentioned. It would take some episodic event, like a series of vocanos or a meteor strike, to darken the skys enough to flash freeze the lake in April, once it had thawed.

Mee-n-Mac · 02-25-2005, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

{snip} It would take some episodic event, like a series of vocanos or a meteor strike, to darken the skys enough to flash freeze the lake in April, once it had thawed.

Naaah, I can think of 1 singular event that would do it. All I have to do is invite the mother in law up to the cabin in April. That reception is chilly enough to flash freeze the entire lake in less than a day !

KTO · 02-25-2005, 04:33 PM

LOL and thanks Lakegeezer for that "helpful" information!

Bizer · 02-26-2005, 02:20 PM

A second ice-in could not occur. Here’s why.

From my experience on the lake, ice-in has occurred when two conditions occur at the same time: (1) The water temperature near the surface is no more than 35; and (2) It’s really cold. The average day/night temperatures in Laconia in January are 29F and 9F, respectively. “Average” is not cold enough. Winnipesaukee doesn’t freeze until the nighttime temperature is near or below zero.

Now, fast-forward to ice-out. 35F degree water does not melt ice very quickly. The water temperature typically has been 40F when ice out has occurred. The earliest ice out is around the first of April when the average temperatures in Laconia is 38F. That's 19F degrees warmer than January.

In order for ice to reform, the water temperature has to drop 5 degrees. Thence, the air temperature has to be 25-30 degrees below normal for several days. A one-day variance of 20 degrees is rare. A 25 degree variance has never been recorded in the lakes region.

If a temperature variance of 25 degrees lasted for a week, ice on Winnipesaukee would be the least of your thoughts.

Next subject: LakeGeezer: A spring tide has nothing to do with the spring season. Spring tides occur twice a month during full moon and new moon. The moon and the sun are both pulling together to form higher than normal tides that "spring" up. Neap tides are the opposite of spring tides. Neap tides occur around the time of the moon's first quarter and last quarter. Spring tides are usually about 50% higher than neap tides. As I posted in an earlier thread, the tides of Winnipesaukee are about the thickness of a nickel. The difference between a spring tide and a neap tide on Winnipesaukee is about as thick as a Bizer chart.

upthesaukee · 02-26-2005, 02:30 PM

That's ok, LG, I saw the wink in your title

. A little attempt at "stirring the pot" once again, methinks

.

02-24-2005, 09:39 PM	#1
KTO Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Meredith, NH Posts: 391 Thanks: 30 Thanked 117 Times in 26 Posts	Ice out, ice in, ice out. . . What would ever happen if ice out occurred and then several days later the lake lake was solid again? Would it still be called ice out? Would there be two ice outs? That's pretty weird, and certainly wouldn't go back and forth over night, but let's just say that after a slightly warm period of time, ice out occurred, and then it dropped in to the chilling negatives and froze again? That's weird. . . thanks for any responses in advance KTO

02-24-2005, 09:58 PM	#2
Chris Exley Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mirror Lake, NH and Royersford, PA Posts: 134 Thanks: 26 Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts	I don't think that would happen..because 1) Ice out is when the Mount Washington can make the trip to all its ports. That's an awful lot of water that would have to refreeze. 2) Ice out typically occurs in April. The sun's angle is just to high. You may get many days below freezing, but you are also getting more daylight, and the energy would keep the water from freezing.

02-24-2005, 11:42 PM	#4
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,604 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,474 Thanked 1,983 Times in 1,083 Posts	With the $3.5 million at stake for the correct ice out date and time, I can understand your concern. Of course with dinner for two at a local restaurant or a gift from the store, or having your name posted as having guessed the closest to "ice out", it really doesn't matter. Fact is that ice out is when the Mount can travel ice free to all its ports. It's a fun thing, not something that anyone is going to get rich on. Don't think you will find anyone that will buy ice in for a second time, and then a second ice out. An interesting thought, albeit a fleeting thought. __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

02-25-2005, 07:03 AM	#5
glennsteely Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Mantua, N.J. Posts: 472 Thanks: 90 Thanked 111 Times in 38 Posts	I will take my 3.5 million in cash please.... Small bills, in 30 gallon twist tie garbage bags, if its not too much trouble, cause I guessed the correct date and time, I am sure........this is sort of like the %#@*!# vs. the Patriots in the superbowl......no one remembers 2nd place. __________________ You have to go out on a limb sometimes, cause that is where the fruit is. You can't get to the fruit from that nice safe spot, clinging to the trunk of the tree......

02-25-2005, 08:01 AM	#6
Lakegeezer Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 1,680 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 355 Thanked 640 Times in 291 Posts	The tides would prevent it In the spring, right about the time of iceout (middle two weeks of April is normal), the tides on the lake are at one of their high points of the year. Spring tide its called. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1407 > This keeps the water moving enough to prevent the ice from reforming, along with the strong sun as was previously mentioned. It would take some episodic event, like a series of vocanos or a meteor strike, to darken the skys enough to flash freeze the lake in April, once it had thawed. __________________ -lg

02-24-2005, 10:26 PM	#3
KTO Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Meredith, NH Posts: 391 Thanks: 30 Thanked 117 Times in 26 Posts	Hmm. . . I suppose that is true. . . but, and I may be getting to in depth with this, if it did occur what would happen? I mean you never know what could happen, there could be clouds in the sky for three straight weeks, for example and it may remain freezing day and night. Or what if ice out happened today because of some bizarre high temp week, chances are it would refreeze, am I correct? Just curious. . . but if I am getting carried away. . .do tell!

02-25-2005, 04:33 PM	#8
KTO Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Meredith, NH Posts: 391 Thanks: 30 Thanked 117 Times in 26 Posts	LOL and thanks Lakegeezer for that "helpful" information!

02-26-2005, 02:20 PM	#9
Bizer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 336 Thanks: 0 Thanked 243 Times in 82 Posts	A second ice-in could not occur. Here’s why. From my experience on the lake, ice-in has occurred when two conditions occur at the same time: (1) The water temperature near the surface is no more than 35; and (2) It’s really cold. The average day/night temperatures in Laconia in January are 29F and 9F, respectively. “Average” is not cold enough. Winnipesaukee doesn’t freeze until the nighttime temperature is near or below zero. Now, fast-forward to ice-out. 35F degree water does not melt ice very quickly. The water temperature typically has been 40F when ice out has occurred. The earliest ice out is around the first of April when the average temperatures in Laconia is 38F. That's 19F degrees warmer than January. In order for ice to reform, the water temperature has to drop 5 degrees. Thence, the air temperature has to be 25-30 degrees below normal for several days. A one-day variance of 20 degrees is rare. A 25 degree variance has never been recorded in the lakes region. If a temperature variance of 25 degrees lasted for a week, ice on Winnipesaukee would be the least of your thoughts. Next subject: LakeGeezer: A spring tide has nothing to do with the spring season. Spring tides occur twice a month during full moon and new moon. The moon and the sun are both pulling together to form higher than normal tides that "spring" up. Neap tides are the opposite of spring tides. Neap tides occur around the time of the moon's first quarter and last quarter. Spring tides are usually about 50% higher than neap tides. As I posted in an earlier thread, the tides of Winnipesaukee are about the thickness of a nickel. The difference between a spring tide and a neap tide on Winnipesaukee is about as thick as a Bizer chart.

02-26-2005, 02:30 PM	#10
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,604 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,474 Thanked 1,983 Times in 1,083 Posts	That's ok, LG, I saw the wink in your title. A little attempt at "stirring the pot" once again, methinks . __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!