bad anchors and bad anchoring

[NH_boater]

I am amazed how many people purchase a 60 to 100K boat and then try to use a $25 Wal-Mart anchor to hold her in place. I was a Sleeper's Sandbar today for most of the day and I am amazed at the amount of folks that came in, in the windy conditions, and tried to anchor with these cheap, crappy anchors, no chain on the rode, way too little scope, and then look around surprised that they are dragging their way downwind into other moorings. I saw at least a dozen boats do this, some stayed with some help from others and many just gave up and left. I also love when they only have one anchor, usually on a clothes line or a couple dock lines tied together. The rode sometimes comes out in one big knotted mess, which they do not figure out until they are already in place and started their drift into their neighbors.

Windy conditions and a busy sandbar in not a great place for these noobies to be cutting their teeth.

I have not seen any serious damage caused by the drifting chaos but it can sometimes lead to high frustration factors.

[Aguamenti]

As a newbie boater, I would love constructive advice in that situation. We all have to cut our teeth somewhere, and some of us are very eager to learn.

[cmack]

I use two 14 pound fluke style and each has about 5' of chain (no issues so far). The use of chains is a must and makes a world of difference. I also get out and check that both anchors are actually set good; I see many people do not do this. Part of the problem is a lot of dealers (mine included) only give you the rode and anchor with the purchase of a new boat and say that's all you need. You would think of all people they would know better. I learned about the use chains from reading forums like this one.

[Kamper]

The problems you are describing don't seem to be caused by the anchor. More like rode issues and operator incomptence. Many occasional boaters don't realise that an anchor by itself is less effective without the weight of a chain or cat weight to help it bite into the bottom.

[Phantom]

NH Boater -

Don't judge an "anchor line" by it's size

I got turned on many years ago to using "sail (mast) Line", it is only about 1/4" in diameter but has a 5,000# breaking strength. The down side is their is absolutely no "give" in the line.

Being in a relatively smaller boat (23') space/ storage is paramount. With this line we can easily accommodate 125' on one of those Home Depot power cord storage reels and stow easily when we depart. (yes, we carry a stern anchor too)

As for "chain" I have used chain, but quite frankly find no extreme benefit on Winni for some reason ! I know all the claims that it is heavy and lays flat on the bottom to better set your anchor -- but -- I seem to have the same luck with or without.

Finally, Aguamenti -- don't fret .... Even the supposed "Seasoned Pro's" have to set & reset at times. Setting an anchor is 25% pure luck. I have seen 32' Cruisers slipping their anchors at sandbars and that's a treat when your a 23' next to them !!


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[fpartri497]

I have 40 Ft. of chain and 150 Ft. of rope on my 258 Vista cruiser. have no problems setting anchor at the sandbars

[NH_boater]

Some things I have learned that some may find useful.

Ground tackle
- two anchors for sandbars, one bow one stern.
- decent anchor sized right, I use a fortress danforth type on the bow and super hooker danforth on the stern, both sized one size larger than recommended. Cheaper, smaller anchors can work but rely on perfect technique and some luck. In high winds or a storm, you'll be very happy with your quality anchor, oversized one size larger than recommended.
- chain, necessary for weight and rode angle to help the anchor set quickly. Also helpful to protect rope from scraping on rocks. I use 20' on the bow hook and 6' on the stern. I would say 6' minimum for the bow, 10' is better, one boat length is even better. The chain not only helps set the anchor but also keeps it set better in wind and waves by acting as a shock absorber. As waves hit, the bow lifts, as does the chain. This eases the shock of the wave on the anchor set, reducing the chance of pulling the anchor out of set before you are ready. Use good marine chain from marina recommendation.
- anchor rope, 3/8" minimum, 1/2" is better. I like the 1/2" not for strength, but for ease in grasping and pulling. Three strand nylon is good choice. I would say 250' minimum for safety (if needed in deeper water) but 350' is better.
- Note, The anchor rode may save your boat and health if you loose power in storm and need to stop dangerous drift.
- I also marked my anchor line with 25' indicators to let me know how much line I have out. 3 times depth is minimum, 5 is better.

Technique
- if the bar is too crowded, especially if windy and you are not experienced, better to anchor (practice) somewhere else.
- have both anchors ready before approach, no tangled lines or anchors buried under toys and coolers.
- be sure your desired spot is clear of all swimmers, especially kids. If not, please wait for spot to clear. This is especially important when backing you boat into position.
- bow anchor is positioned up wind from your desired position. This anchor holds you position and does most of the work. Stern anchor is only there to prevent swinging into other boats.
- align yourself with other boats already anchored. They will have positioned themselves bow to the wind and waves.
- drive or back in until bow is over desired bow anchor position.
- showily lower anchor allowing anchor to touch bottom before chain. Allow wind to push you backwards, or slowly power back into position.
- tie off anchor line, typically about 20 to 25' behind bow anchor at sandbar depths.
- now allow wind to push boat back driving anchor into seabed, or gently power back to set anchor. Idle speed only, easy bump into reverse.
- with decent anchor, chain and adequate scope, you will feel the anchor grab the sand bed and stop the boat with a solid stop. Your bow anchor is set and you are 90% home.
- lower anchor off stern. Get in water, walk stern anchor back around 15' back, lay anchor, tighten anchor line leaving a bit of slack to allow movement with waves but not movement swaying boat closer to other boats.
- lastly, check that both anchors are buried into bar bed and holding with a solid purchase.

Departing
- prep boat for departure.
- pull stern anchor and manually hold boat in position
- if clear, get in boat, manually pull boat up over bow anchor and pull straight up. It will be buried, especially on windy days.
- if not clear, manually pull bow anchor while holding boat in position. Temporary stow anchors and rode while you idle out to deepens water. Once clear, stow anchors, lift ladders, etc.

Hints
- two experienced boaters working together make all of this look very easy. Alone is doable, but takes skill on a windy day.
- relax, panic will not help you or you temporary neighbors.
- do not throw anchors. Lower them slowly and controlled. A thrown anchor has a good chance of chain or rope fouling set into bed and makes you look inexperienced to others.
- be curtious, if someone has been there since 10am, they are not likely to be too happy if you show up at 3pm after already crowded, and position right against there boat.
- please do not drop your anchors right off the swim platform of another boat. Also, do not cross your anchor lines across other anchor lines. It is rude and can be unsafe.

[NH_boater]

Originally Posted by Kamper

The problems you are describing don't seem to be caused by the anchor. More like rode issues and operator incomptence. Many occasional boaters don't realise that an anchor by itself is less effective without the weight of a chain or cat weight to help it bite into the bottom.

This anchor can work, maybe, but with no chain, bad technique and winds it is not likely. I agree that technique and know-how is most important. I do feel that spending $100 or $125 on a decent anchor is money well spent and will make your anchoring time much easier.

It is common to see these cheap anchors paired up with no chain, too little scope and perplexed looks when it does not hold.

[NH_boater]

Forgot one additional thought,

If your neighbor is struggling, smile and offer to help. If your struggling, smile and ask for some help. It is a good way to meet you new neighbors.

[Phantom]

VERY WELL put NH Boater .... (in both Posts !! )

Kudo's


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[Sleezstak]

Easiest way to anchor is to just tie onto NH Boaters boat.
Always here to help

[AB_Monterey]

I'm always amazed at how many people show up to the sand bar without a rear anchor.

In addition, simply dropping your rear anchor off the stern accomplishes nothing. Get in the water and sink it.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by AB_Monterey

I'm always amazed at how many people show up to the sand bar without a rear anchor.

In addition, simply dropping your rear anchor off the stern accomplishes nothing. Get in the water and sink it.

The thing is, if you are new to sand bar anchoring, o boating in general, how would you know that you needed 2 anchors?

[Diver Vince]

Originally Posted by chipj29

The thing is, if you are new to sand bar anchoring, o boating in general, how would you know that you needed 2 anchors?

By reading this forum and seeing what the local folks post.

[NH_boater]

We are all newbies once. My first trip to any sandbar was Winnisquam. Pulled in, dropped my only anchor, saw everyone else had two as I held my stern steady. I quickly left and bought a stern anchor on the way home. Problem solved, except the stern anchor was a grappling hook style that never held in any breeze at all. Talked to some folks, read a little, bought a super hooker one size oversized. Problem solved.

I am pretty tolerant of those that are obviously new, as I was once too. Funny that some of the boats having great difficulties I have seen at the same sandbar for four years. I won't identify them but one has two anchors that are too small and poor design, never drops enough scope and constantly swings and drifts into other boats with any breeze at all. I have helped them off my boat a few times, politely showing them to drop more scope and to consider a larger, better anchor and a chain. Here that are again this year with the same setup and same difficulties. I hear the wife complain and he just says that he cannot understand why their anchor won't hold the boat. Says anchors do not hold well on sandy bottoms. Forget the fact that no one around them is drifting or dragging.

Then there is the guy that gets into position with no prep and then starts to look for his anchor. I had to jump in one day and quickly run around to keep his performance cruiser off my boat in the wind while he obliviously fought with his locked anchor locker. He was drifting into us, looked up, saw it, and just calmly continued to attempt to get his anchor. He would have 'slammed' into us if I did not jump in. Even if he got the anchor out, it was way too late to stop the drift. No problem, I positioned him, set his anchors and we talked for a bit. Feeling good that I helped a newbie who needed it. He did the exact same thing the next day to another boat. Then the same the next weekend and twice more (that I personally saw) last year. Probably a >100k boat. I cannot help but think how someone can do this, at the complete whim of others to protect a collision, again and again.

It is pretty ease to do a little research and be more comfortable with your boat.
Very little effort.

[Dave R]

Some people just aren't interested in doing things like that correctly. I imagine they are the same type of people that hang out in the left lane on the highway oblivious to the fact that they are behaving rudely.

I seriously doubt the repeat offenders would ever read a thread about how to anchor on a boating forum...

[NH_boater]

I agree Dave.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Some people just aren't interested in doing things like that correctly. I imagine they are the same type of people that hang out in the left lane on the highway oblivious to the fact that they are behaving rudely.

I seriously doubt the repeat offenders would ever read a thread about how to anchor on a boating forum...

Unless we have small grandchildren with us, we stay away from the sandbars, or go early enough to wipe down the boat, maybe wax the sides, and then have a little libation. As the sandbar starts to get crowded, it is time to move on, and find a place to anchor where no one is close to cutting your anchor rope, or gets in the middle of all the boats and then looks for his anchor, or.... well all of the above.

Sandbars were a lot of fun when my kids were kids. Now that our kids have blessed us with grandchildren, sandbars...well not so much.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Unless we have small grandchildren with us, we stay away from the sandbars, or go early enough to wipe down the boat, maybe wax the sides, and then have a little libation. As the sandbar starts to get crowded, it is time to move on, and find a place to anchor where no one is close to cutting your anchor rope, or gets in the middle of all the boats and then looks for his anchor, or.... well all of the above.

Sandbars were a lot of fun when my kids were kids. Now that our kids have blessed us with grandchildren, sandbars...well not so much.

We still go to Braun Bay despite the fact that we have teenage kids, but always arrive early and leave early on weekends. I find the mayhem as it gets crowded pretty entertaining and leave before it becomes irritating. Most people there are pretty cool and seem to know how to anchor. Shifty wind days, like last Saturday, are challenging for anyone and the occasional stern anchor reset is just something that has to be dealt with. I reset mine twice and helped neighbors reset theirs more than twice.

[znh]

As an extremely new boater I really appreciate the information in this thread. We certainly want to do things the right way and will find a nice quiet place to practice these techniques before invading the sand bars


One question. If you feel/hear your bow anchor scraping on the rocks and it doesn't seem to be holding perfectly what is the best way to take care of this. Pull up the anchor and try to reset in a different position ?

As for the stern anchors, how do you exactly 'set' the anchor ?

[jrc]

If you can hear your anchor dragging on the rocks, it isn't set. Try:

1) Let out more rode. You should have 3 times the depth out, as a rule of thumb.

2) Back up slower, your anchor needs time to dig in.

3) Find a better place. Sometimes your anchor can't get through the rocks.

4) Get a different anchor. Flat fluke anchors are best in sand, plow or claws work better in rocks.

5) Get some chain. Chain helps pretty much all anchoring.

Setting the rear anchor, in shallow, warm water just jump out and set it with your feet.

In deep water, set the front securely. Then let a ton more line out on the front, backing all the way back past where you want the rear anchor to be. Drop the rear and pull in the front. Drop some rear line and then set the rear as you pull in the front.

[Phantom]

Not sure what your asking in the first question, but for setting the stern anchor it's VERY simple.

-- Grab anchor with line attached
-- Jump in water (preferably before wind blows you into boats on either side of you)
-- Walk back 20ft or so (boat size dependent)
-- Manually set anchor in sand (I use my foot) cuz water is now cooler
-- walk stern anchor line back to rear cleat (use same side as bow anchor cleat)
-- snug up stern line till bow anchor tightens
-- Pop open the first beverage !


Joking aside, if I see someone coming in to a local sandbar I usually walk over to where I believe they will be stern in to assist. This I hope helps in two ways (1) they are able to get a visual on the depth of the water where I am standing (2) I can hold their stern while they get adjusted on the bow lines.

It's the neighborly/ sandbar thing to do ....... A polite "Thanks a lot" works wonders ............. as opposed to the sometimes received - "I GOT IT" in which case I just walk away and watch the ensuing comedy!!




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[NH_boater]

Yup, the sandbar is right up there with the public launch for entertainment on a windy day. I am not usually entertained by newbies as much as the 'Know-it-alls who refuse help, sometimes with attitude (pride) and then really muck things up.

I agree that helping out not only helps them and educates them, but also sets a nice neighborly tone for a better day at the lake. I often offer to help solo boaters who can sometimes use an extra hand, or the elderly who might need a little assistance.

I will sometimes remind someone that their ladder is down as they depart. Most thank you nicely, even if they know. Other might snap back that they know it is down. I will sometimes climb aboard and depart with the ladder down if it is windy and I am looking to clear out quicker to avoid getting too close to anyone. I usually get a 'your ladder is down', I am careful to smile and say thank you, even though I knew. All is usually helpful and friendly.

It is nice to have conversations with your neighbors and maybe meet some new fellow Winni boaters.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by NH_boater

I will sometimes remind someone that their ladder is down as they depart. Most thank you nicely, even if they know. Other might snap back that they know it is down. I will sometimes climb aboard and depart with the ladder down if it is windy and I am looking to clear out quicker to avoid getting too close to anyone. I usually get a 'your ladder is down', I am careful to smile and say thank you, even though I knew. All is usually helpful and friendly.

It is nice to have conversations with your neighbors and maybe meet some new fellow Winni boaters.

I do the same with the ladder and people often remind me (and odds are good I'll forget 60 seconds later anyway). I don't mind. When I haul in the anchor, I idle up to the anchor, go into neutral, and simultaneously run the windlass until the anchor is dangling on about 5 feet of chain. I then go into gear and travel at idle speed for 100' or so to clean the anchor before pulling it up to the stop. This often elicits frantic yelling of "YOUR ANCHOR IS STILL OUT!". I smile and explain that I'm cleaning it. This cleaning method works great, BTW.

[znh]

Thanks for all the great replies. As a family who will be on Winni for many years to come we look forward to being part of the solution and not part of the problem. I would hope that most of these people who aren't doing things the right way are just people out for the day or something and not local folks who live up there...but that could be a lot of hoping

Excited to try out some new anchoring techniques. First I need to go out and get a stern anchor now...

[jrc]

Just to be clear znh, you don't always need a rear anchor. Crowded sandbars, its always a good idea.

In deep water, you only need one if your swing will cause issues. Its generally safer with one anchor, your boat will lie bow to the wind and change as the wind changes. If you read boating sites, you will see warnings about rear anchors.

With only a front anchor you will swing from side to side in the wind and may get close to a neighboring boat. You may also want to anchor the stern if the wind is blowing you beam to the boat wakes.

Just be careful if you leave a boat unattended with two anchors out.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by znh

Thanks for all the great replies. As a family who will be on Winni for many years to come we look forward to being part of the solution and not part of the problem. I would hope that most of these people who aren't doing things the right way are just people out for the day or something and not local folks who live up there...but that could be a lot of hoping

Excited to try out some new anchoring techniques. First I need to go out and get a stern anchor now...

My advice is to get one that's very different than your bow anchor. Having more than one type may come in handy some day. The popular styles: Danforth/Fortress fluke, Bruce/Lewmar claw, and Delta/CQR plow, all work great in sand. Another option is the Rocna which is not very popular yet, but many regard it as the best available anchor on the market right now.

[znh]

Yes the stern anchor would be just for the sandbars or excessively windy days. Although we were out last weekend in one of the bays off of Timber and as windy as it was out in the open water it was nice and calm in the bay...

[Aguamenti]

Thanks again for all the great advice in this thread. Can't begin to tell you how helpful it is.

[tom-sr230]

we have been using the folding box anchor made by slide co. on our 23 foot bow rider I use two, one each for the bow and stern and they both perform great for what we do ,,which is hang in the sand.. I have thrown them out on different bottoms and although the anchor did work great, it filled up with mud and had to be shaken around a little in the water before hauling it in..i still keep a couple of my older fluke style anchors on the boat just in case I need them or to offer them to a neighbor at the sand bar to use if they only had one anchor and were drifting ... I have gotten angry in the past when another boat pulls right up next to us and only uses a bow anchor with the driver now napping and his boat swinging very very close to mine..i would rather stay happy and offer up something that would most likely be sitting in my shed anyways..so far when I lend an anchor out, I have always gotten it back.!!

[NH_boater]

I keep an extra 'super hooker' in the boat for the same reason.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by NH_boater

I keep an extra 'super hooker' in the boat for the same reason.

I had a super hooker on my boat once, but then my wife found out and it caused all kinds of issues.

[Phantom]

SPARE ANCHOR brings up another point for the "Newbies"

Always have a Sharp Knife aboard !

Although a LAST RESORT, when deep water anchoring once in a great while you have to finally admit that nothing that you do will bring this anchor up.

With a tear in the eye, you are forced to "cut your anchor" out of your life!

With that said, there are many techniques for trying to break an anchor loose (using the power of the boat) ..... BUT once in a great while...... Oh well ....



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[NH_boater]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

I had a super hooker on my boat once, but then my wife found out and it caused all kinds of issues.

I tee'd that one up for you....

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by NH_boater

I tee'd that one up for you....

Yeah. Teamwork is always the key to a good outcome.

[tom-sr230]

tell that to the super hooker!!!!!!!!

[HellRaZoR004]

Those last few posts were hilarious.