Driveway Info

[Slainte]

Does anyone know if a permit is needed to blacktop an existing dirt driveway on a waterfront house? Thank you!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Slainte

Does anyone know if a permit is needed to blacktop an existing dirt driveway on a waterfront house? Thank you!

Yes!, at least in Gilford it is. I just went through this. I needed a permit to put a top coat over an existing base coat of asphalt!!

Dan

[Just Sold]

How far from the shore will the driveway be? I believe if it is within 250' you will need a NHDES permit. A paved driveway creates runoff differently than a dirt/gravel driveway going towards the lake.

[BroadHopper]

Not sure if it applies here. Shoreline Protection requires porous paving. Wicked expensive. Unless pavement is grandfathered.

[MeredithMan]

...our neighbor just went through this last year. As stated in separate, previous posts, if the driveway is within 250' of shoreline, you will need an NHDES permit and you will need a pervious surface. Meredith also required a driveway permit, to ensure that where the driveway meets the road is done properly.

MM

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Not sure if it applies here. Shoreline Protection requires porous paving. Wicked expensive. Unless pavement is grandfathered.

You could just deal with the water that comes off the driveway. A catch basin or drywell with drainage built into the driveway. This is the same process that you would use if you put an addition on your house within the 250' buffer (minus the 50' zone).

As an aside; a gravel driveway is also considered impervious, so there is no change from gravel to asphalt. You will likely have to bring the existing driveway up to current regulation if you open pandora's box. Meaning that you would need to deal with the water that falls on the new driveway surface.

[Lakegeezer]

Water runoff is the biggest contributor to degrading water quality, and development increases runoff. It brings silt and phosphorus into the lake, turning sandy bottoms into muck and increasing plant growth. Non-porous paved driveways can be really bad, but gravel driveways can cause problems too, as they are not very porous. No matter what you install, think about how you can divert water into the woods, or into a holding pond, before it goes into the lake. This can be done with an angled ditch in a gravel driveway or a speed-bump like mound built into the paved driveway. For gravel, you can also use a "rubber waterbar". Directions on how to make them are here. Anything you can do to slow down water's run to the lake will help more of it infiltrate into the ground instead.

[camp guy]

The best way to get the official answer to your question is to start with your Town office and follow local rules. If your Town has a Code Enforcement Officer for Building Codes this person can tell you exactly what you need to know for your Town and your particular location within Town.

Everyone else's answers are pure anecdote.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

...our neighbor just went through this last year. As stated in separate, previous posts, if the driveway is within 250' of shoreline, you will need an NHDES permit and you will need a pervious surface. Meredith also required a driveway permit, to ensure that where the driveway meets the road is done properly.

MM

A neighbor, down the road, paved his driveway last year, within 50 feet of the lake. The town of Moultonboro was informed by other neighbors and they did nothing about it. This is doesn't even mention a new beach, new breakwater, new dock, waterfront trees cut, all last year. lol. so it all depends (on something not definable)

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by wifi

A neighbor, down the road, paved his driveway last year, within 50 feet of the lake. The town of Moultonboro was informed by other neighbors and they did nothing about it. This is doesn't even mention a new beach, new breakwater, new dock, waterfront trees cut, all last year. lol. so it all depends (on something not definable)

Correct. The state and towns have endless rules but they don't enforce any of them. It is a shame but that is how inefficient bureaucracies function.

[Slainte]

Thank you all for the input! Will definitely check with the town offices!

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by wifi

A neighbor, down the road, paved his driveway last year, within 50 feet of the lake. The town of Moultonboro was informed by other neighbors and they did nothing about it. This is doesn't even mention a new beach, new breakwater, new dock, waterfront trees cut, all last year. lol. so it all depends (on something not definable)

He must be a politician. I have a neighbor in Gilford who is in the state legislature who is doing similar shenanigans.

[Onshore]

Slainte:
If you are simply paving an existing gravel driveway and the footprint of that driveway will not change, then you do not need a Shoreland Protection permit from the NH Department of Environmental Services. If anyone asks you to explain why not, please refer them to Rule Env-Wq 1406.04, Activities in Protected Shoreland That Do Not Require a Shoreland Permit, (c), (4). If the person questioning your actions actually takes the time to look up the rule and read it they may question the fact that said rule says there can be no change in the impervious surface footprint. You can assure them that pursuant to RSA 483-B:4 VII-b gravel driveways are considered to be impervious and thus conversion from gravel to pavement does meet the requirement for the exemption. If they persist and point out that you needed to either grade the existing gravel or add a small amount of gravel to prep the surface to receive the pavement and that this is filling and thus not exempt please respond that the Department does not consider this excavation or fill unless it is sufficient to alter the pre-existing grade or drainage pattern. (Please note, if you are in fact laying down enough material to change grades or drainage patterns they have a point you should contact DES at 603-271-2147). If they persist and still believe that you are doing something illegal just tell them you "know someone." That should take care of the problem because simply put it is easier for some people to accept that government is corrupt, than it is for them to accept that a government agency might have had the good sense to see that making people get a permit to resurface their existing driveways was just going to result in great deal of time reviewing meaningless paperwork with no environmental benefit, and thus they exempted the activity.

D. Forst
Shoreland Section Supervisor
NH DES

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by shore things

Slainte:
If you are simply paving an existing gravel driveway and the footprint of that driveway will not change, then you do not need a Shoreland Protection permit from the NH Department of Environmental Services. If anyone asks you to explain why not, please refer them to Rule Env-Wq 1406.04, Activities in Protected Shoreland That Do Not Require a Shoreland Permit, (c), (4). If the person questioning your actions actually takes the time to look up the rule and read it they may question the fact that said rule says there can be no change in the impervious surface footprint. You can assure them that pursuant to RSA 483-B:4 VII-b gravel driveways are considered to be impervious and thus conversion from gravel to pavement does meet the requirement for the exemption. If they persist and point out that you needed to either grade the existing gravel or add a small amount of gravel to prep the surface to receive the pavement and that this is filling and thus not exempt please respond that the Department does not consider this excavation or fill unless it is sufficient to alter the pre-existing grade or drainage pattern. (Please note, if you are in fact laying down enough material to change grades or drainage patterns they have a point you should contact DES at 603-271-2147). If they persist and still believe that you are doing something illegal just tell them you "know someone." That should take care of the problem because simply put it is easier for some people to accept that government is corrupt, than it is for them to accept that a government agency might have had the good sense to see that making people get a permit to resurface their existing driveways was just going to result in great deal of time reviewing meaningless paperwork with no environmental benefit, and thus they exempted the activity.

D. Forst
Shoreland Section Supervisor
NH DES

Actually reading a rule and not taking the word of a "buddy" or the internet. What a concept!

[wifi]

Hmmm, well, in this case, the driveway was dirt, no kind of finished gravel was present. Thanks for the info tho. I'll remember to put gravel down before I pave mine

[jmen24]

Gravel is a mixture of sand and small stones, aka dirt, as it would be removed from the ground. Every dirt road in this state is a gravel road.

Sift out the sand and you have stone that can be sorted for pea stone or crushed stone; all of which are refined aggregate. Gravel is unrefined aggregate, minus the removal of rocks and larger stones. You can add refined aggregate to an existing "dirt" driveway and it will eventually mix with the existing material, it is no longer refined and has become gravel.

Unless you are saying their driveway was in scratched off condition, which is the first process in developing a raw building lot (removing the organic matter at the surface of the forest floor). That would most definitely be a significant upgrade.

[BroadHopper]

Well the neighbor been in and out of court for various infractions. Nothing was done about it. How about the governor granted a 'land grant' for him to build a 20' berm so that he can extend his dock out and to create a beach!

The Army Corps of Engineers even issued a cease and desist which was largely ignored.