Wolfboro docks

chachee52 · 08-07-2017, 08:10 PM

Ok, I know we discussed this a couple years ago when they first posted it but.....
Can someone please explain the handicap dock in Wolfboro to me? Is it the entire dock, just the right side (from the water) or the couple posts that are painted blue? I stayed away from it just to be safe.
Also, looking at the docks, they are all equal, and the one with the handicap sign is the farthest away from everything. I guess I just don't get it. Not saying they shouldn't have one, I'm a physical therapist. I'm just saying where it is located just doesn't seem the easiest/most accessible from everything.
Just curious

Orion · 08-07-2017, 08:19 PM

Yep, totally baffling. Handicap access spaces are supposed to provide easier/closer access, not just provide a reserved priority space for handicapped persons at the expense of sidelining valuable dock space for other patrons.
There is no reason a handicapped person needs priority over anyone else waiting for a space.

Descant · 08-07-2017, 09:52 PM

It appears logic bypassed the Wolfeboro Selectmen on this issue. Fine to have
handicap docking, but the placement decision doesn't follow usual logic. Now, most boards of selectmen are reluctant to override previous boards, so unless residents make a fuss, you're stuck with bad decision. I recall there is a contingent of advocates pushing this issue in Wolfeboro. Good for hem. We need that. But,In this case, I think the BOS made an inappropriate response/plan. I'm not a Wolfeboro voter, but I recall years ago when Wolfeboro was more friendly to transient boaters. he BOS represents tax-paying voters, not transients or merchants or others.

chachee52 · 08-08-2017, 06:03 AM

But where is the actual spot? The signs are very confusing.

tis · 08-08-2017, 06:36 AM

There are discussions about changing and expanding the docks now anyway. So it doesn't seem like there will be an issue with these particular docks for too much longer.

upthesaukee · 08-08-2017, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

There are discussions about changing and expanding the docks now anyway. So it doesn't seem like there will be an issue with these particular docks for too much longer.

Maybe not much longer, but then again, when I went to Brewster from 1963-64, they were discussing the need of a set of traffic lights at rte 28 and South Main. 🤤😉 Time can move slowly in Wolfeboro.

Meanwhile, back to the docks.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

garysanfran · 08-08-2017, 11:38 AM

"Can someone please explain the handicap dock in Wolfboro to me? Is it the entire dock, just the right side (from the water) or the couple posts that are painted blue?"

A few reply posts, but I'm not seeing the answer to your question.

tis · 08-08-2017, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Maybe not much longer, but then again, when I went to Brewster from 1963-64, they were discussing the need of a set of traffic lights at rte 28 and South Main. 🤤😉 Time can move slowly in Wolfeboro.

Meanwhile, back to the docks.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

And those lights have been discussed several times since then. That's ok, as awful as it is to get through there, I would rather not have lights. I know some people really want them though. But I think they really do intend to expand the docks. But who knows......To be continued.

StardogChampion · 08-08-2017, 12:41 PM

Usually with these situations the only way to really know is if you get a ticket then it was the wrong spot (at least at that moment according to that enforcement official). If you don't get a ticket it was either the right spot, no enforcement was around or it was interpreted as not a violation.

It's like gardening. Pull it -- if it comes out easy then it wasn't a weed.

nightrider · 08-08-2017, 01:02 PM

How is an enforcement official (if there even is one for this situation) supposed to know if a boat has disembarked a handicapped individual, or not? Boats don't have handicapped registration plates as automobiles do, or do they? I can't recall ever seeing one.

TheTimeTraveler · 08-08-2017, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

And those lights have been discussed several times since then. That's ok, as awful as it is to get through there, I would rather not have lights. I know some people really want them though. But I think they really do intend to expand the docks. But who knows......To be continued.

Actually I believe something may be finally happening by 2019 regarding the traffic lights. Rumors have it that the powers to be are looking to modify the intersection by putting a mini rotary there. I'm not sure which would be worse; the mini rotary or the traffic lights.

With that said, it's back to the dock issue......

.

Rich · 08-08-2017, 01:59 PM

It's spelled out here in this town document:

https://www.wolfeboronh.us/sites/wol...kordinance.pdf

paragraph 36-5-Q

Sorry that it wouldn't let me copy and past it here.

But there is a $250 fine for breaking this RSA

Seaplane Pilot · 08-08-2017, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

It's spelled out here in this town document:

https://www.wolfeboronh.us/sites/wol...kordinance.pdf

paragraph 36-5-Q

Sorry that it wouldn't let me copy and past it here.

But there is a $250 fine for breaking this RSA

Thanks for posting that document. I wonder what gives the Town the authority to restrict barges from anchoring within 100' of the town docks?

Taz · 08-09-2017, 12:51 PM

This subject was discussed when the disabled section was first marked. I recall that a certain individual complained about town offices/buildings not being handicap accessible. In order to satisfy that individual it was agreed to designate handicap space at the town docks.

I also recall researching this and the ADA/Americans with disabilities act states that in hotels/motels if there are rooms accessible for the disabled and all other rooms not accessible for disabled are booked then rooms accessible for disabled can be booked by any one not disabled. This would also apply to the docks and ADA Act supersedes all town ordinances or state laws as ADA Act is federal. So if that is true then if all other spaces are taken then someone not disabled can use the space designated for the disabled.

upthesaukee · 08-09-2017, 01:35 PM

Here is RSA 261:88 dealing with handicap placards and plates. Interesting point is the placard is to be hung from the rear view mirror of the "vehicle" so as to be seen from both ends of the vehicle. No indication that it can be used for a boat.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...261/261-88.htm

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Taz · 08-09-2017, 01:36 PM

Found this googling "Handicap boat slips" This was a website titled: US Access Board, Accessible Boating Facilities.

Acessible boat slips do not need to be marked and are not
reserved in the same way as accessible vehicle parking
spaces. For example, facilities should hold the accessible
slips open for persons with disabilities until all other slips
are filled. At that point, the slip may be made available for
general use. For seasonal slip holders, accessible slips
should be held until the expiration period for slip contracts
has expired.

If some one wanted to fight a ticket issued in Wolfboro, Town of Wolfboro may lose based on the above.

I tried to provide link to site but I am not tech savvy

Taz · 08-09-2017, 02:01 PM

Found this on an old thread on this website titled "Wolfeboro Dock Question" dated 6/27/2007 - 6/2/2008, there are many other posts and information but this seems to state and confirm what I posted earlier.

A15.2 Boating Facilities.

A15.2.2 Accessible Route. The following two examples apply exceptions two and three.

Example 1. Boat slips which are required to be accessible are provided at a floating pier. The vertical distance an accessible route must travel to the pier when the water is at its lowest level is six feet, although the water level only fluctuates three feet. To comply with exceptions 2 and 3, at least one design solution would provide a gangway at least 72.25 feet long which ensures the slope does not exceed 1:12.

Example 2. A gangway is provided to a floating pier which is required to be on an accessible route. The vertical distance is 10 feet between the elevation where the gangway departs the landside connection and the elevation of the pier surface at the lowest water level. Exceptions 2 and 3, which modify 4.8.2, permit the gangway to be at least 80 feet long. Another design solution would be to have two 40-foot plus continuous gangways joined together at a float, where the float (as the water level falls) will stop dropping at an elevation five feet below the landside connection.

A15.2.3 Boat Slips: Minimum Number. Accessible boat slips are not "reserved" for persons with disabilities in the same manner as accessible vehicle parking spaces. Rather, accessible boat slip use is comparable to accessible hotel rooms. The Department of Justice is responsible for addressing operational issues relating to the use of accessible facilities and elements. The Department of Justice currently advises that hotels should hold accessible rooms for persons with disabilities until all other rooms are filled. At that point, accessible rooms can be open for general use on a first come, first serve basis.

chachee52 · 08-09-2017, 08:52 PM

Thanks for all the posts. I really didn't intend to start any thing, just truely didn't know exactly where the space/spaces were. But good to know that if all spots are taken I can park there. The way the sign is on the water, it kind of looks like its the whole dock. And by looking at the way people seemed to be avoiding that dock.

Joebon · 08-09-2017, 09:46 PM

I thought it was just the blue posts. I plan on parking there now when the docks are busy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Taz · 08-10-2017, 07:06 AM

You still may get a ticket. Then you would have to fight it. You could be a test case and appeal all the way to the Supreme Court.

StardogChampion · 08-10-2017, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

Actually I believe something may be finally happening by 2019 regarding the traffic lights. Rumors have it that the powers to be are looking to modify the intersection by putting a mini rotary there. I'm not sure which would be worse; the mini rotary or the traffic lights.

With that said, it's back to the dock issue......

.

Saw this today in an unrelated place and thought of this thread.

https://www.wimp.com/mythbusters-tes...-a-roundabout/

Descant · 08-10-2017, 04:59 PM

When the button comes back, I'll say "thanks". Interesting Mythbuster.

08-07-2017, 08:10 PM	#1
chachee52 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 451 Thanks: 6 Thanked 93 Times in 72 Posts	Wolfboro docks Ok, I know we discussed this a couple years ago when they first posted it but..... Can someone please explain the handicap dock in Wolfboro to me? Is it the entire dock, just the right side (from the water) or the couple posts that are painted blue? I stayed away from it just to be safe. Also, looking at the docks, they are all equal, and the one with the handicap sign is the farthest away from everything. I guess I just don't get it. Not saying they shouldn't have one, I'm a physical therapist. I'm just saying where it is located just doesn't seem the easiest/most accessible from everything. Just curious

08-07-2017, 08:19 PM	#2
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cow Island Posts: 914 Thanks: 602 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	agreed Yep, totally baffling. Handicap access spaces are supposed to provide easier/closer access, not just provide a reserved priority space for handicapped persons at the expense of sidelining valuable dock space for other patrons. There is no reason a handicapped person needs priority over anyone else waiting for a space.

08-08-2017, 11:38 AM	#7
garysanfran Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Francisco/Meredith Posts: 1,566 Thanks: 661 Thanked 676 Times in 345 Posts	Chachee52 asked this question... "Can someone please explain the handicap dock in Wolfboro to me? Is it the entire dock, just the right side (from the water) or the couple posts that are painted blue?" A few reply posts, but I'm not seeing the answer to your question. __________________ Gary ~~~~_/) ~~~ ~~~~~~~~

08-08-2017, 01:02 PM	#10
nightrider Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: winter harbor Posts: 200 Thanks: 4 Thanked 33 Times in 18 Posts	Handicapped placard How is an enforcement official (if there even is one for this situation) supposed to know if a boat has disembarked a handicapped individual, or not? Boats don't have handicapped registration plates as automobiles do, or do they? I can't recall ever seeing one.

08-08-2017, 01:59 PM	#12
Rich Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Derry / Gilford Posts: 1,244 Thanks: 72 Thanked 344 Times in 234 Posts	It's spelled out here in this town document: https://www.wolfeboronh.us/sites/wol...kordinance.pdf paragraph 36-5-Q Sorry that it wouldn't let me copy and past it here. But there is a $250 fine for breaking this RSA __________________ Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com

08-07-2017, 09:52 PM	#3
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,350 Thanks: 1,341 Thanked 1,623 Times in 1,055 Posts	It appears logic bypassed the Wolfeboro Selectmen on this issue. Fine to have handicap docking, but the placement decision doesn't follow usual logic. Now, most boards of selectmen are reluctant to override previous boards, so unless residents make a fuss, you're stuck with bad decision. I recall there is a contingent of advocates pushing this issue in Wolfeboro. Good for hem. We need that. But,In this case, I think the BOS made an inappropriate response/plan. I'm not a Wolfeboro voter, but I recall years ago when Wolfeboro was more friendly to transient boaters. he BOS represents tax-paying voters, not transients or merchants or others.

08-08-2017, 06:03 AM	#4
chachee52 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 451 Thanks: 6 Thanked 93 Times in 72 Posts	But where is the actual spot? The signs are very confusing.

08-08-2017, 06:36 AM	#5
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,719 Thanks: 752 Thanked 1,457 Times in 1,014 Posts	There are discussions about changing and expanding the docks now anyway. So it doesn't seem like there will be an issue with these particular docks for too much longer.

08-08-2017, 12:41 PM	#9
StardogChampion Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Gunstock Acres Posts: 50 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Usually with these situations the only way to really know is if you get a ticket then it was the wrong spot (at least at that moment according to that enforcement official). If you don't get a ticket it was either the right spot, no enforcement was around or it was interpreted as not a violation. It's like gardening. Pull it -- if it comes out easy then it wasn't a weed.

08-09-2017, 12:51 PM	#14
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 347 Thanks: 3 Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts	Handicap docking This subject was discussed when the disabled section was first marked. I recall that a certain individual complained about town offices/buildings not being handicap accessible. In order to satisfy that individual it was agreed to designate handicap space at the town docks. I also recall researching this and the ADA/Americans with disabilities act states that in hotels/motels if there are rooms accessible for the disabled and all other rooms not accessible for disabled are booked then rooms accessible for disabled can be booked by any one not disabled. This would also apply to the docks and ADA Act supersedes all town ordinances or state laws as ADA Act is federal. So if that is true then if all other spaces are taken then someone not disabled can use the space designated for the disabled.

08-09-2017, 01:35 PM	#15
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,597 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,455 Thanked 1,979 Times in 1,080 Posts	Here is RSA 261:88 dealing with handicap placards and plates. Interesting point is the placard is to be hung from the rear view mirror of the "vehicle" so as to be seen from both ends of the vehicle. No indication that it can be used for a boat. http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...261/261-88.htm Sent from my SM-T580 using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

08-09-2017, 01:36 PM	#16
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 347 Thanks: 3 Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts	Handicap boat slips Found this googling "Handicap boat slips" This was a website titled: US Access Board, Accessible Boating Facilities. Acessible boat slips do not need to be marked and are not reserved in the same way as accessible vehicle parking spaces. For example, facilities should hold the accessible slips open for persons with disabilities until all other slips are filled. At that point, the slip may be made available for general use. For seasonal slip holders, accessible slips should be held until the expiration period for slip contracts has expired. If some one wanted to fight a ticket issued in Wolfboro, Town of Wolfboro may lose based on the above. I tried to provide link to site but I am not tech savvy

08-09-2017, 02:01 PM	#17
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 347 Thanks: 3 Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts	Handicap slips/docks Found this on an old thread on this website titled "Wolfeboro Dock Question" dated 6/27/2007 - 6/2/2008, there are many other posts and information but this seems to state and confirm what I posted earlier. A15.2 Boating Facilities. A15.2.2 Accessible Route. The following two examples apply exceptions two and three. Example 1. Boat slips which are required to be accessible are provided at a floating pier. The vertical distance an accessible route must travel to the pier when the water is at its lowest level is six feet, although the water level only fluctuates three feet. To comply with exceptions 2 and 3, at least one design solution would provide a gangway at least 72.25 feet long which ensures the slope does not exceed 1:12. Example 2. A gangway is provided to a floating pier which is required to be on an accessible route. The vertical distance is 10 feet between the elevation where the gangway departs the landside connection and the elevation of the pier surface at the lowest water level. Exceptions 2 and 3, which modify 4.8.2, permit the gangway to be at least 80 feet long. Another design solution would be to have two 40-foot plus continuous gangways joined together at a float, where the float (as the water level falls) will stop dropping at an elevation five feet below the landside connection. A15.2.3 Boat Slips: Minimum Number. Accessible boat slips are not "reserved" for persons with disabilities in the same manner as accessible vehicle parking spaces. Rather, accessible boat slip use is comparable to accessible hotel rooms. The Department of Justice is responsible for addressing operational issues relating to the use of accessible facilities and elements. The Department of Justice currently advises that hotels should hold accessible rooms for persons with disabilities until all other rooms are filled. At that point, accessible rooms can be open for general use on a first come, first serve basis.

08-09-2017, 08:52 PM	#18
chachee52 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 451 Thanks: 6 Thanked 93 Times in 72 Posts	Thanks for all the posts. I really didn't intend to start any thing, just truely didn't know exactly where the space/spaces were. But good to know that if all spots are taken I can park there. The way the sign is on the water, it kind of looks like its the whole dock. And by looking at the way people seemed to be avoiding that dock.

08-09-2017, 09:46 PM	#19
Joebon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 142 Thanks: 23 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts	I thought it was just the blue posts. I plan on parking there now when the docks are busy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

08-10-2017, 07:06 AM	#20
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 347 Thanks: 3 Thanked 70 Times in 47 Posts	Joebon You still may get a ticket. Then you would have to fight it. You could be a test case and appeal all the way to the Supreme Court.

08-10-2017, 04:59 PM	#22
Descant Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Merrimack and Welch Island Posts: 4,350 Thanks: 1,341 Thanked 1,623 Times in 1,055 Posts	When the button comes back, I'll say "thanks". Interesting Mythbuster.