Winter - Away - Turn Off Heat - Drain Pipes

[TheProfessor]

Yep.
My neighbor - seasonal - decided that all was a waste of money heating house by propane all winter. Year round full foundation modern house.
So hired someone to drain all pripes, etc.

Following year I visit and there in living room is a man on stilts patching the ceiling.

The following year. Did same. No heat in house.
I visit again.
And low and behold. There is the same man on stilts patcing the ceiling. My visit was only a few minutes. So I did not ask if there was any other damage. The owner of house was quite upset. So I did not ask any questions.

Penny wise. Pound foolish.

Yes, some can and do drain everything - and all is fine - for years or decades.
But some do have issues.

And yes, at out 1940 camp. We did drain all pipes. This is how I learned to sodder copper pipes. And I became quite good at it.

[Blue Thunder]

I’ve winterized my house in Maine myself for 20 years. I’m not there and just can’t trust that the power won’t go out. As long as you use a small compressor and blow everything out with air, you’ll never have a problem.

[tg38]

30+ years draining house water and anti freeze in all traps. blowing water out of dish washer and clothes washer, no problems

[LikeLakes]

Agree, with attention to detail and a routine you follow a house can be safely winterized. The only problems I've run into are due to my own mistakes, and were very easy to fix.

So I don't think penny wise and pound foolish at all. Personal decision, certainly costs a fair amount of money these days to keep a house you don't plan to use heated to 50 degrees.

[Steveo]

When I built my camp on the lake some 40 years ago I did it with the intention of it being seasonal and needing to be drained each fall. All of the pipes can be gravity drained down to 2 spigots, no compressor needed. Antifreeze in the traps and toilet, drain clothes washer and dishwasher and I'm done.

[camp guy]

Every year this topic comes up, and every year people relate their horror or success stories. But in one of the above posts there is mention of a gentleman up on stilts patching the ceiling. This has nothing to do with draining pipes, but everything to do with with the whole house getting too cold and the sheetrock reacting to stress. It is not an exact comparison of apples-to-apples, but sheetrock eventually succumbs to constant cold and will crack. Draining the pipes AND keeping the heat on at a low setting will probably solve both issues. The cost off the extra fuel to keep a house at a low temperature during the winter is significantly less than the cost of the repairs necessary when you try to DIY and cut corners. For homeowners who aren't able to monitor (electronically) their house, contract with a property management company for periodic checks. This is money well spent. I am not trying to spend other people's money, not tell them how to manage their house, but by following my own rules I have successfully managed my own house for many years.

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by camp guy

Every year this topic comes up, and every year people relate their horror or success stories. But in one of the above posts there is mention of a gentleman up on stilts patching the ceiling. This has nothing to do with draining pipes, but everything to do with with the whole house getting too cold and the sheetrock reacting to stress. It is not an exact comparison of apples-to-apples, but sheetrock eventually succumbs to constant cold and will crack. Draining the pipes AND keeping the heat on at a low setting will probably solve both issues. The cost off the extra fuel to keep a house at a low temperature during the winter is significantly less than the cost of the repairs necessary when you try to DIY and cut corners. For homeowners who aren't able to monitor (electronically) their house, contract with a property management company for periodic checks. This is money well spent. I am not trying to spend other people's money, not tell them how to manage their house, but by following my own rules I have successfully managed my own house for many years.

My impression of his remarks regarding patching the ceiling was that a pipe needed repair and it was in the space above the ceiling…..

[SAMIAM]

If you decide to drain pipes......be sure and leave all faucets in the house wide open. That way if there is any residual water it will expand without breaking the pipes

[TiltonBB]

I have a seasonal guest house that I blow out and shut down every winter. The water feed is underground from another house that I blow it out from so even the pipes in the ground should be free of any water. The pipes will hold air pressure all winter so when I return in the spring it is reassuring that when I open the faucets and hear the hiss I know there are no underground leaks. It may be safer to leave the faucets open but this method has been working for about 12 years.

Over several years, I have made all the mistakes you can make. Two years ago, when I opened the valves to feed water to the guest house I also turned on the breaker for the hot water. I learned the hard way that the air locked hot water heater wouldn't fill until I opened a faucet. Both electrodes had to be replaced.

I am not sure if this is the reason but I left an LCD television in there for the winter and it was junk in the spring. I think the (L stands for liquid) TV froze. Now I remove the new TV and put it in a building that stays at 50 degrees for the winter.

[WinnisquamZ]

Correct on the tv. I do the same with a “summer space” above the garage. I open all faucets and shower then blow out each line. Not difficult. Curious about the air left in the line. Interesting


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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

I am not sure if this is the reason but I left an LCD television in there for the winter and it was junk in the spring. I think the (L stands for liquid) TV froze. Now I remove the new TV and put it in a building that stays at 50 degrees for the winter.

Interesting that you had problems with your TV. I don’t think it was because of the cold. I have two 60” LCD TV’s that I have left out at my camp for years now. I was told LCD was the type of TV that can take the cold and that is why they use them in conversion vans and RV’s specifically for this reason.

I do know your suppose to let them come up to room temp before turning them on in the spring or you could damage them. I also make sure to unplug them over the winter….

Dan

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Interesting that you had problems with your TV. I don’t think it was because of the cold. I have two 60” LCD TV’s that I have left out at my camp for years now. I was told LCD was the type of TV that can take the cold and that is why they use them in conversion vans and RV’s specifically for this reason.

I do know your suppose to let them come up to room temp before turning them on in the spring or you could damage them. I also make sure to unplug them over the winter….

Dan

Wondering if it was a plasma tv?


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

My impression of his remarks regarding patching the ceiling was that a pipe needed repair and it was in the space above the ceiling…..

My impression of the remarks is that they have structural problems and by leaving the heat off you increase the snow load on the roof. No heat leaking through to melt any snow fall means a heavier snow load.
I wonder which issue caused the need to patch ceilings every year?

[ITD]

Originally Posted by camp guy

Every year this topic comes up, and every year people relate their horror or success stories. But in one of the above posts there is mention of a gentleman up on stilts patching the ceiling. This has nothing to do with draining pipes, but everything to do with with the whole house getting too cold and the sheetrock reacting to stress. It is not an exact comparison of apples-to-apples, but sheetrock eventually succumbs to constant cold and will crack. Draining the pipes AND keeping the heat on at a low setting will probably solve both issues. The cost off the extra fuel to keep a house at a low temperature during the winter is significantly less than the cost of the repairs necessary when you try to DIY and cut corners. For homeowners who aren't able to monitor (electronically) their house, contract with a property management company for periodic checks. This is money well spent. I am not trying to spend other people's money, not tell them how to manage their house, but by following my own rules I have successfully managed my own house for many years.

This, my first lake house was a cottage, with wood walls, pretty small, easy to winterize and no issues. The house I have now is a regular house, with lots of sheetrock and appliances. I don't winterize but rather leave the heat set at 50. Humidity changes and cold can cause havoc and damage. Not worth it.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by camp guy

... "Draining the pipes AND keeping the heat on at a low setting will probably solve both issues. The cost off the extra fuel to keep a house at a low temperature during the winter is significantly less than the cost of the repairs necessary when you try to DIY and cut corners..."

I'm mystified here.
1. If I drain the pipes (radiators, baseboards, whatever) how will I keep the heat on at 50 F?
2. If I don't drain, and keep the heat at 50F I'd guess I could easily use 300-400 gallons of oil at say $6.gallon. Let's be generous and say 150 gallons, I can get the ceiling patched/painted for les than $200.
3. If I keep the heat on, I probably have to pay somebody, or get a neighbor, to watch things to make sure the heat doesn't fail (run out of fuel?) And, what if electricity is off for several days? The pipes can freeze anyway.

[chachee52]

I didn't see anything about it being a water leak. I know way back when the camps were being put more "modern" with sheet rock people wouldn't leave the heat on and the seams would crack more. Is this what he was patching?
If not, than your neighbor has other issues I would say if he had a professional come out and fully drain the house. Our old camp we drain each year, gravity drain only, for decades and only had a few issues and they were mainly our fault. Someone thought a valve was closed and "opened it" just to have it actually be that we closed it. Never heated, no isolation to bother, only had a heater in the last 20 years that runs maybe 3 times a year.

[Biggd]

Wood expands and contracts with temperature. The bigger the temperature swing the more it will contract or expand. If you have drywall or plaster walls it can crack when unheated in the winter.
Somone mentioned $200 to repair cracks and paint, I doubt you could get someone at that price today! JMO.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Wood expands and contracts with temperature. The bigger the temperature swing the more it will contract or expand. If you have drywall or plaster walls it can crack when unheated in the winter.
Somone mentioned $200 to repair cracks and paint, I doubt you could get someone at that price today! JMO.

My guy hasn't changed his rates in 15 years. Yes, paint is more expensive now.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Descant

My guy hasn't changed his rates in 15 years. Yes, paint is more expensive now.

I hope you tip him well.
In Ma you have to pay a painter $200 just to show up! Most painters down here get a minimum of $300 a day plus materials and that's with just minor patch repairs.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by Descant

I'm mystified here.
1. If I drain the pipes (radiators, baseboards, whatever) how will I keep the heat on at 50 F?
2. If I don't drain, and keep the heat at 50F I'd guess I could easily use 300-400 gallons of oil at say $6.gallon. Let's be generous and say 150 gallons, I can get the ceiling patched/painted for les than $200.
3. If I keep the heat on, I probably have to pay somebody, or get a neighbor, to watch things to make sure the heat doesn't fail (run out of fuel?) And, what if electricity is off for several days? The pipes can freeze anyway.

I agree.

I think it boils down to this ... it's preferable from a structural point of view to keep heat on at a low level. The expand/contract issues of a structure that chills to zero or below in winter at times are real. But, the real world cost of heating through the winter is at a different level than just a few years ago. Like Descant said, you're burning $6 oil. I don't know of any place that can do that with less than 300 or so gallons, likely more given that our summer places are not generally well insulated. I totally get why so many people drain down rather than heat. We did for many years, only in recent years are keeping it open since more people are able to use it in winter now.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I agree.

I think it boils down to this ... it's preferable from a structural point of view to keep heat on at a low level. The expand/contract issues of a structure that chills to zero or below in winter at times are real. But, the real world cost of heating through the winter is at a different level than just a few years ago. Like Descant said, you're burning $6 oil. I don't know of any place that can do that with less than 300 or so gallons, likely more given that our summer places are not generally well insulated. I totally get why so many people drain down rather than heat. We did for many years, only in recent years are keeping it open since more people are able to use it in winter now.

My oil Co is $4.50 a gallon and it's been dropping. Still high but not as bad as it was. I was lucky I didn't need a fill up when it was $6.00 a gallon, because of the mild fall.
I do know some people that have decided to drain and winterize for the first time because of the price.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by Descant

My guy hasn't changed his rates in 15 years. Yes, paint is more expensive now.

He should. Please encourage him to raise his rates, no reason for a contractor or handyman to be working for the same rate given how every one of his expenses has gone up.

[fatlazyless]

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