moultonborough town meeting

[Lakes Region Guy]

What happened at the Moultonborough town meeting? Did buying the CruCon building pass?

[DesertDweller]

What would they do with it?

[WinterHarborGuy]

Pickleball!

[tummyman]

CruCon failed to pass.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by WinterHarborGuy

Pickleball!

Shucks we need that!

[longislander]

Crucon vote: No 291 ... Yes 247

Now ... start activity for another round of 15-20 million dollar recreation center for thhe former Lion's club property.

Moultonborough actions on land properties is better than watching "The Little Rascals" on ancient TV shows.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by longislander

Crucon vote: No 291 ... Yes 247

Now ... start activity for another round of 15-20 million dollar recreation center for thhe former Lion's club property.

Moultonborough actions on land properties is better than watching "The Little Rascals" on ancient TV shows.

And the same 247 people are mystified when the taxes go up

[longislander]

And the same 247 people are mystified when the taxes go up

"Mystified" folks probably weren't even at the meeting. Of the roughly 4500+ registerd voters in the town of 5,000+, 538 showed up, and at least half left, half way thru the meeting. Just there for the Crucon vote ... no surprise.

Tax bills are not up because of the tax rates, but because of all land owners becoming "richer" because of their land values.

MoBo's tax rate, in the last four tax rates: yr./rate ... 2025/5.33 ... 2024/5.65... 2023/5.70 ... 2022/4.78 are the lowest in 37 years, that I've got on paper. Market land values are creating the higher tax "bills".

Some folks don't understand how tax bills are created.

The money that would have been "appropriated" for Crucon would not have raised taxes. Its already sittting in "general funds". Another question that should be asked is why so much money is sitting in the general fund. The likely answer will be the select board policy #32 which is 12.5% of gross annual appropriation. The NH DRA suggests anywhere from 5 to 17 %. Crucon if it had been approved would have dropped the general fund to a little over 8%.

[John Mercier]

When the land values peak; the rate will rise.

It is what Meredith is experiencing; and now will for several years to come.

[longislander]

Land values can go up or down, but rarely significantly down; depends on the market and what time frame of assessment.

MoBo does 20% per year for five years and land value assessments can be
skewerd accordingly.

https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/Doc...nual-Updatepdf

Tax rates rise when spending rises.

As far as Meredith, look to their spending.
Land values peeking in Meredith ... you're kidding right!!!


https://www.meredithnh.gov/DocumentC...x%20bill%20for


https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...2d5d81b70.html

[John Mercier]

No. Tax rates rise based not only on the budgets but also the land values.

Spending increases are due to having to pay more for labor.
Moultonborough is not immune from that.

So the budgets go up. The land values do not rise as quickly, and the rate adjusts accordingly.

And land values cannot be "skewered" accordingly.

[jbolty]

Originally Posted by longislander

"Mystified" folks probably weren't even at the meeting. Of the roughly 4500+ registerd voters in the town of 5,000+, 538 showed up, and at least half left, half way thru the meeting. Just there for the Crucon vote ... no surprise.

Tax bills are not up because of the tax rates, but because of all land owners becoming "richer" because of their land values.

MoBo's tax rate, in the last four tax rates: yr./rate ... 2025/5.33 ... 2024/5.65... 2023/5.70 ... 2022/4.78 are the lowest in 37 years, that I've got on paper. Market land values are creating the higher tax "bills".

Some folks don't understand how tax bills are created.

The money that would have been "appropriated" for Crucon would not have raised taxes. Its already sittting in "general funds". Another question that should be asked is why so much money is sitting in the general fund. The likely answer will be the select board policy #32 which is 12.5% of gross annual appropriation. The NH DRA suggests anywhere from 5 to 17 %. Crucon if it had been approved would have dropped the general fund to a little over 8%.

the money might be in the fund now but if the town buys this for the next 50 years it will have to be staffed, heated, the lights kept on, the roof replaced and all the other costs associated with a commercial building. There might be a case to be made for it but the up front cost is usually the smallest part.

[longislander]

No. Tax rates rise based not only on the budgets but also the land values.

Spending increases are due to having to pay more for labor.
Moultonborough is not immune from that.

So the budgets go up. The land values do not rise as quickly, and the rate adjusts accordingly.

And land values cannot be "skewered" accordingly.
Today 12:56 PM

AI:

No, the statement is not accurate. In New Hampshire, property tax rates (the dollars per $1,000 of assessed value that you pay) are primarily determined by the budgets (the total amount of taxes to be raised, or "tax levy," for municipal, school, county, and state education purposes) divided by the total assessed value of all taxable property in the community.
The tax rate is calculated as:
Tax Rate = (Total Tax Levy) / (Total Assessed Value of Taxable Property)
The total assessed value base increases.
If the tax levy (budgets) stays the same or doesn't rise proportionally, the tax rate typically decreases to keep the total revenue the same.
This spreads the tax burden more fairly based on updated values, but it doesn't automatically cause rates to rise.
The budgets (appropriations for services, schools, etc.) are the main driver of how much total revenue needs to be raised via property taxes, and thus influence whether rates go up or down. Rising land/property values help offset potential rate increases by expanding the tax base, rather than directly causing rates to rise.
This is standard across NH municipalities, as confirmed by the Department of Revenue Administration (DRA) processes and local assessing guidelines.

Property values determine how the tax burden is divided, while budgets determine how much tax money must be raised.
Even if the tax rate drops, waterfront property may see a much larger tax bill because its share of the tax burden increased.
This happens frequently in lake towns like Moultonborough because lakefront values rise faster than inland property.
Tax rates rise when the total amount of taxes to be raised increases faster than the town’s total property value. Property values mainly determine how the tax burden is divided among taxpayers.

If all properties rise equally, the tax rate usually drops, and everyone's share stays roughly the same.
But if some properties rise faster than others, their share increases.
Property values do not determine how much tax money the town raises.
They determine how the tax burden is divided among property owners.

the money might be in the fund now but if the town buys this for the next 50 years it will have to be staffed, heated, the lights kept on, the roof replaced and all the other costs associated with a commercial building. There might be a case to be made for it but the up front cost is usually the smallest part.

All buildings have cost! Now and forever!
Smallest part of what????

In the Crucon case, the sale of the three properties replaced by Crucon would be much more than the cost ... and then some!

[John Mercier]

The town employee, be a police officer, fire fighter, EMT, road agent, office worker, etc. is not going to want to have the same annual income forever.
At a point, other opportunities pull that labor from the municipality forcing the municipality to either go without, or raise the budget to fill the positions.

Cost of materials rise also.

When the total value of property as a percentage relative to the previous year rises, but slower than that budgetary pressure, the rate rises.

Example: budgets up 5%, total property value up 10%... rate in general drops (other income plays a role).
Budgets up 5%, total property value flat, rate has to rise to offset.

Moultonborough, like Meredith, did not only see rising property valuations in existing buildings; but also lots of new construction that added to that total property valuation increase year over year.

[longislander]

The town employee, be a police officer, fire fighter, EMT, road agent, office worker, etc. is not going to want to have the same annual income forever.
At a point, other opportunities pull that labor from the municipality forcing the municipality to either go without, or raise the budget to fill the positions.

Cost of materials rise also.

When the total value of property as a percentage relative to the previous year rises, but slower than that budgetary pressure, the rate rises.

Example: budgets up 5%, total property value up 10%... rate in general drops (other income plays a role).
Budgets up 5%, total property value flat, rate has to rise to offset.

Moultonborough, like Meredith, did not only see rising property valuations in existing buildings; but also lots of new construction that added to that total property valuation increase year over year.

Are you talking about inflation?
No entity is immune to inflation.
Are you talking about attrition?

The DPW (Publics Works dept.) CBA (collective bargaining agreement ... union contract) and the Police Dept. CBA are two of the larger expenses (not land values) that were on the MoBo warrant.

Mobo DOES SEE, and has seen, and is aware of property value and cost increases. Our select board has done a good job. That's why we have some of the lowest taxes in the state, notwithstanding high property values. It also utilizes the excess general funds to help offset taxation. policy #32

https://www.moultonboroughnh.gov/Doc...nce-PDF?bidId=

Regarding tax rates, property values, assessments etc., I'll refer you back to my previous post.

[John Mercier]

Inflation.
When property construction is strong, the inflation is hidden.

The increased property valuation from the new construction covers some/all of the underlying inflation costs and the rate stays stable.

[longislander]

Ohhhh please..................

[georgefelt]

Originally Posted by longislander

You wrote:

In the Crucon case, the sale of the three properties replaced by Crucon would be much more than the cost ... and then some!

This may be true, but it is not common knowledge and no evidence was presented at the meeting to support the statement. No appraisals, no CMAs, no offers or development commitments. “Because I said so” is just not enough to tip the scales for a lot of people, so if there is a next time I hope this will be addressed. “In God we trust. All others must submit evidence.”

[longislander]

This may be true, but it is not common knowledge and no evidence was presented at the meeting to support the statement. No appraisals, no CMAs, no offers or development commitments. “Because I said so” is just not enough to tip the scales for a lot of people, so if there is a next time I hope this will be addressed. “In God we trust. All others must submit evidence.”

You don't need a "CMA" to guesstimate on a property's value. Just look at the real estate in the area. You don't need to be a CMA, with bachelor's degree (any field), two years of professional experience in accounting or finance, and must pass the two-part CMA exam to estimate on what three prominent properties are worth.

I'm not a CMA. I've only got three business degrees including an MBA, and paralegal certification that go back decades.

There was no argument the Crucon "price" was "good".

There were/are opinions in discussions in town on what the former Lion's club is worth. Also, what is the present town hall worth to the Huggins Hospital folks, or any other enterprise already "in the village". What did it offer for the Taylor property across the street from the present town hall on RT.25, thru the center of town, before backing out of the deal, a while back. How much is the Rec. dept. building across the street from The Corner store, a bustling, thriving business?

A lot of us do believe in God ... She is benevolent!

Prove God is not a she!

Don't want to seem agnostic ... my first two years of high school were in a Roman Catholic seminary, studying to be a priest; OMI, fathers. My time in Vietnam, May '67 to Feb. 69' with the 189th Assault Helicopter, (avionics and doorgunner) in UH-1 helicopters tempered/expanded my view of God .

[rsmlp]

thank you for your service. that's a tough gig to live through.