Bear Island Foreclosure Sale

[EllyPoinster]

There is a notice for the foreclosure sale of a Bear Island property in today's Union Leader. As is usual with these sales, the auction will be held on the premises - on March 17th. Getting there at this time of the year should be interesting.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Can you post a link?

[krm]

Any one know how much is owed to the bank, in taxes, liens?

[EllyPoinster]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

Can you post a link?

http://publicnoticeads.com/NH/search...08_6982916.HTM

[Redwing]

I googled "vision appraisal" and clicked on New Hampshire, then clicked Meredith, typed in the owner's name (which you can get from the link above), and voila.....a picture of the cottage in question, with all its' specs! A sign of the times, I fear (foreclosures).

[offmycloud]

If this goes looks like it will go cheap, they paid $125K for it in 2001. How the heck do you get out there in mid-March?

[krm]

The debt on the property is at least 250k when you go to the registry of deeds, but I did not look for property tax liens or other... so if the auction is not for more then what is owed the bank will just take it back and list with a realtor. Too bad it was not 125k that would have been a fair price. The owner appears to be like 10% of the US population upside down in regards to their mortgage.

[offmycloud]

Wow, would the market support $250K for that place? It looks pretty small. Seems high but I don't know island real estate.

[krm]

I would not think so. Like I said upside down.

[offmycloud]

The bank may just dump it and take the loss. If I was going to be in the area I would try to attend. Wacky things can happen at those auctions, especially vacation homes and island property no less.

[andyporter]

Anyone know where on the island its located? Near the mail dock,near Camp Lawerence etc...

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I know how I can get out there, but I won't tell, that way I can be one of only a few bidders!!! LOL

[offmycloud]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

I know how I can get out there, but I won't tell, that way I can be one of only a few bidders!!! LOL

Lemme guess - airboat? I can't imagine how there would be any bidders there. You can't go out on the ice that time of year, right?

[krm]

http://www.airboats.ca/video.cfm?id=1

[fatlazyless]

This is all very interesting. I wonder what is the local home value price trigger that requires a town to undergo a reassessment, as town-wide reassessments are expensive? Like costing a town maybe $350,000 for it to hire Vision appraisal, or a similar assessment company?

If today's market says it is worth 225, then the smart seller should go window shop Washington Mutual, up by the Meredith roundabout, for an easy 325 refi. Isn't that how it works?

[jerseyonbear]

it appears that the cottage is located between Dolly Point and the Church Dock.

[bilproject]

The property is located almost directly across from cattle landing right behind Dolly. No Septic and with new shoreline rules could never be expanded. 2 rooms and a porch. Doubt this property would go for more than 175K. 100x100 lot. The 100 foot of water frontage is what drives up the assessment right fatlaz!

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Ok, no septic? So how in todays world is that legal?

[wifi]

Originally Posted by bilproject

..... No Septic and with new shoreline rules could never be expanded. ....

This might be the first of the many lakefront homes that will go upside down thanks to the SPA...

[fatlazyless]

My old Grumman aluminum war canoe seats 10 bargain-warriors and one foreclosure attorney, Chief, whose esteemed position let's him sit on the stern of the canoe as he chants the holy forclosure coxain's mantra.

"Heap big wampun, straight to Bear shore....stroke....feather....stroke....feather... .stroke, waterfront real estate always come back....say the great spirit".

"Heap big bargain over there....stroke...stroke...stroke....buy it for free, plus $25,000 excess cash from great friendly father at Washington Mutual up on yonder hilltop."

"Is good to be the Chief, no have to paddle, ugh!"

[secondcurve]

Wifi:

I agree with you that this might be the first of many lake front homes that go upside down, but I think it has little to do with the SPA and everything to do with a lack of personal responsibility. I could be wrong on the exact numbers, but as I recall, this guy starts out by buying the property at $125M in 2001 and he presently has a loan balance around $295M. Maybe I'm crazy, but this foreclosure probably has little to do with the SPA. But don't fret, maybe one of the aspiring presidential wannabes will freeze interest rates at 5% so the big, bad banks don't take advantage of this poor guy.

[Bear Islander]

Here is a map that shows where it is. Black squares are dock locations.

Why do we think there is no septic? I can't find where it says that.

[GWC...]

Google's version

[bilproject]

I looked at this place year and a half a go when it was for sale at 350,000. Has a leaching holding tank. Out houses are legal if grandfathered but you can not change the use at all. A building permit for the structure would require the septic now.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Wifi:...I agree with you that this might be the first of many lake front homes that go upside down, but I think it has little to do with the SPA and everything to do with a lack of personal responsibility......

I certainly agree that personal responsibility in spending, particularly as seen here, plays a big part, just as towns need to start controlling spending to keep the tax rate under control.

My point was that in addition to downward going market prices, the SPA will push down house prices further, such as this, that aren't pristine and don't contain every possible feature a buyer would want or need, because the SPA won't allow the average guy (maybe even the unaverage guy) to do basic things (such as a septic tank) to make a house livable once they buy it.

I'm not trying to re-ignite a debate on the SPA, its already been rammed down our thoats. I think the SPA will play a large factor, behind the scenes, in depressing the prices of non McMansions, which will put lots of the lake front folks into financial disarray, and this particular house is one of the first examples.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by krm

http://www.airboats.ca/video.cfm?id=1

Dont tease me, I miss my boat...

I would be rather skeptical by then how safe it will be to get there. I am still thinking early ice out, certainly earlier than last year.

[fatlazyless]

....the banks all loaned easy mortgages...seller's sold at higher prices & buyers bought those high prices.....town assessments grew....town selectmen dreamed community centers and police stations and football fields....and town selectmen spent big...banks continued to loan easy mortgage money....everyone was rich and happy and played thursday nite adult dodgeball at the new community center...down in Concord, the Dept of Environmental Service and the new Democratic legislature tightened up the rules for NH shoreline development...the banks sold off their hi-value mortgages to Wall St-Bond St-Zurich-Abu Dabi investors and the mortgage bankers were all very very fat & very very happy.....the mortgages just got repackaged and resold so did it make any dif if the home's current occupant could really make the payments.......no-way....not one bit.....until...until...until...one day, things started to change, and then what started to.....

[Bear Islander]

You would be very surprised at how much you can do to a home with a grandfathered septic system. The only thing you can't do is increase the number of bedrooms. So you don't call them bedrooms. Call them a study, den, playroom, loft etc.

Surprisingly a grandfathered septic does not mean you can't add bathrooms, add all you want. And you can add a bunkhouse, just made sure you call it a utility building on the plans. It can have a porch and picture window overlooking the lake. it can't have a kitchen because that makes it a separate residence.

Tear down the building and start from scratch, just don't increase the number of bedrooms. One method is to eliminate an existing small bedroom and add a huge bedroom with private bath and huge closets, perfectly legal.

Be careful about closets. A playroom with closets is a bedroom in anybodies book.

This is regulated by the towns. Towns make money through takes. Increasing the size of a waterfront home increases taxes for the town while almost never increasing the number of children enrolled in local schools. If the property is on an island it will NEVER impact the number of children in local schools.

The building inspector is not looking for a way to say no. He is looking for a way to say yes. And that makes a huge difference.

[jrc]

It's just a matter of time before NH adopts a septic law like Mass title 5. As I understand it, you have to upgrade non-conforming septic systems when the property changes hands.

How are you going to put a conforming system on a 100' x 100' lot, especially when you factor in the wetlands buffer.

[Bear Islander]

Many Bear Island lots, like mine, have a separate backlot that you buy along with the property. The backlots are restricted to water wells and septic, no building allowed. My lot is very small but my backlot goes back 375’ from the lake. Even if this home doesn't have a backlot there is a good chance they can make a deal with the person or association that owns the land behind theirs. Nobody wants to keep a neighbor from putting in a better septic. Improving septic systems is the hot topic on the island, much hotter than speed limits.

An engineered, compressed air septic system requires very little land and could be done on a small lot.

In a pinch you can have a propane toilet or composting toilet anywhere.

[Mink Islander]

We saw this in the early 1980's as well. Leveraged summer homes going to foreclosure. The prior owner of my property bought it at foreclosure around then.

Couple thoughts: 1) I wouldn't assume just by the liens on the property that it ='s the debt outstanding. If there's a home equity line, the bank will file a lien for the full amount but the actual usage may be lower. Perhaps the attorney handling the foreclosure will have a fact sheet? 2) I definitely would NOT assume the bank will credit bid the debt up to the full balance of the loan. It depends. Banks don't like to own real estate -- it's expensive to carry. They'll have their own view of value, considering the carrying costs (and time to market), broker fees, etc. That said, they won't be in a panic to sell it at any price either. As the saying goes, your first loss is your best loss...

I won't be surprised to see the sale date moved to May once they figure out the difficulties in getting to the property in the 3rd week of March. The attorney probably has no idea this is a non-bridged island.

Will be interesting to hear if it sells and for what price.

[66WINN]

"The debt on the property is at least 250k when you go to the registry of deeds, but I did not look for property tax liens or other... so if the auction is not for more then what is owed the bank will just take it back and list with a realtor. Too bad it was not 125k that would have been a fair price. The owner appears to be like 10% of the US population upside down in regards to their mortgage. " KRM

I don't think this was a bad mortgage decision from the current conditions.

Based upon the ownership history, it appears that the property was bought in 2001 with joint ownership and changed to single ownership 18 months later. May have needed to refinance for a divorce. Poor family. I would do almost anything to hang onto something at the lake - even if it didn't make for the best underwriting decision for the bank. The emotional attachment to the lake can sometimes cloud ones judgment.

[jkjoshuatree]

Anyone know if there are any and how I can view them? My family already has a place on Bear, but the occasional overflow would be grateful for a second camp.

And does anyone know how I can get in touch with the attorney who's in charge of all this?

I want to know if in fact the date will be pushed up due to the difficulty of getting there in March.

Thanks.

[fatlazyless]

Slighty off topic but what the heck...someone in Meredith has a two-seat, Scat 2 - Hovercraft on www.craigslist.org, New Hampshire, w/ a good photo up for sale for $2500...just right for hovering, very noisily, across the slush & too thin ice...to make a successfull approach to that island camp in late March & April.

My eleven-seat, aluminum, war canoe could do it.....here's how....11 people....well.....10 people plus an attorney, all tiptoe across the thin ice carrying the canoe.....if the ice breaks up....everyone hops into the canoe....and starts paddling......hey...don't laugh....canoes is what worked for hundreds or thousands(?) of years for the indians....ie Native Americans...and they did not believe that an indian could own the land...but that the land owned the indian!

[EllyPoinster]

Originally Posted by jkjoshuatree

And does anyone know how I can get in touch with the attorney who's in charge of all this?

I want to know if in fact the date will be pushed up due to the difficulty of getting there in March.

Thanks.

From the foreclosure sale notice (link above): WELLS FARGO BANK NA By its Attorneys, HARMON LAW OFFICES, P.C. 150 California Street Newton, MA 02458 (603) 669-7963

[EllyPoinster]

So . . . did anybody go?

[Frank]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...

hey...don't laugh....canoes is what worked for hundreds or thousands(?) of years for the indians....ie Native Americans...and they did not believe that an indian could own the land...but that the land owned the indian!

Even more off topic - humans have been in North America for the last 15,000 to 20,000 years. Just in case you wanted to know . Don't know how long they had canoes in NH for sure, but dugout canoes have been in use for 8,000 years or more.

- Frank

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I went, and purchased the property. We will be keeping two 42ft Cigarette Tigers there, each has 1200hp. Most of our friends will be up every weekend. Plan on having huge GFBL Parties!!! Rafting, loud music, you know everything GFBLs are known for....

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

I went, and purchased the property. We will be keeping two 42ft Cigarette Tigers there, each has 1200hp. Most of our friends will be up every weekend. Plan on having huge GFBL Parties!!! Rafting, loud music, you know everything GFBLs are known for....

Make sure you pee in the lake too!

[offmycloud]

Originally Posted by Frank

Even more off topic - humans have been in North America for the last 15,000 to 20,000 years. Just in case you wanted to know . Don't know how long they had canoes in NH for sure, but dugout canoes have been in use for 8,000 years or more.

- Frank

there is an old indian birch bark canoe at the Libby Museum, just outside Wolfeboro