Permanent Dock-Companies

[CaptT820]

All-
We will be installing a permanent U-shaped dock sometime this or next year, assuming the permitting is acceptable. Can people share who they have used for permanent or seasonal dock installation/construction? We are looking to narrow down the field of companies to perform the work prior to reaching out. I know the main players are Winnipesaukee Marine, Ambrose, Watermark.

Thanks in advance.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by CaptT820

All-
We will be installing a permanent U-shaped dock sometime this or next year, assuming the permitting is acceptable. Can people share who they have used for permanent or seasonal dock installation/construction? We are looking to narrow down the field of companies to perform the work prior to reaching out. I know the main players are Winnipesaukee Marine, Ambrose, Watermark.

Thanks in advance.

For a permanent dock, you have just named the only three companies I would trust....

[Descant]

https://islandconstructionnh.com/
Ben and crew did major rebuild for us last year. Roughly 150 linear feet of dock, u-shape. This involved removing 60 year old pre-stressed concrete docks, driving pilings, adding new decks, adding new power pedestals and extending electricity. Excellent work throughout.
DES is usually pretty quick with permits, but they send them to the local Conservation Commission before the application is considered complete. The CC's usually meet monthly and often push the application back if their agenda is already full for this month and/or next. They may add restrictions, so it may be worthwhile for you and your contractor to attend the meetings.

[BillJohn]

Reputable and fair pricing. What else can you ask for. Tobin is great! Give him a call.

[Asloren1]

We’re working with Watermark (Paul Goodwin) on a waterfront project (docks, etc) and my understanding is that DES isn’t really considering new permanent docks anymore in favor of seasonal or removable (ie crank up or removable sections on poles or floating).

A permanent dock is going to be a very tough sell and likely will need to show strong reason why the removable dock is not an option.

Plus, with permanent you’ll need to think about winter ice damage

[tis]

Originally Posted by Asloren1

We’re working with Watermark (Paul Goodwin) on a waterfront project (docks, etc) and my understanding is that DES isn’t really considering new permanent docks anymore in favor of seasonal or removable (ie crank up or removable sections on poles or floating).

A permanent dock is going to be a very tough sell and likely will need to show strong reason why the removable dock is not an option.

Plus, with permanent you’ll need to think about winter ice damage

We put in our new dock quite a few years ago and they were discouraging permanent docks even then. But we had a permanent dock and they still gave us a hard time, even though we wanted to change to temporary.

[codeman671]

Permanent dock usage really depends on the exposure of the property.

I will say some of the new seasonal docks are great. Dave Farley/Diversified built us a 2 piece, very long (we have no depth) seasonal last year to replace our junk pipe dock, then added a walkway and another finger (permitted of course) to it this year.

He has done a permanent 3 finger crib dock for us in the past as well. It was built in 2004, and other than a re-deck its still standing strong at our old place.

He is getting ready to do a hardscape project for us now. Great guy and reasonable. He is booked up like everyone else and is selective these days when taking on new clients as he has so much business servicing long term customers like us.

For permitting, talk to Cynthia Folsom. She worked for DES at one point and trained existing employees so she knows her stuff.

[RUGMAN]

If you have a existing permanent crib dock that needs to be replaced, is that a problem as far as permitting. I once inquired about repairing ,replacing or removing my crib dock and replacing with a seasonal on, I was advised that the value of my property would decrease ( not in the eyes of the tax assessment) and that If you have a crib dock it would be best to repair or replace.

[MeredithMan]

Originally Posted by RUGMAN

If you have a existing permanent crib dock that needs to be replaced, is that a problem as far as permitting. I once inquired about repairing ,replacing or removing my crib dock and replacing with a seasonal on, I was advised that the value of my property would decrease ( not in the eyes of the tax assessment) and that If you have a crib dock it would be best to repair or replace.

When we bought our place in the summer of 2012, it had a permanent dock. I put in the circulator for the winter and all was fine. We were living in SW CT at the time, so it was a 5 hr ride up here, and we didn't come up for about a month in Feb/Mar. The circulator stopped working and the ice started moving...dock went from a straight finger to a "less than/greater than" sign.

I worked with Watermark to replace it. They initially tried to convince me to go with another permanent dock for the reasons you sight above, (property value; if you abandon permanent now, you'll never get one in the future, etc). I was certain that I wanted a crank-up dock...I didn't want the winter hassle that comes with a permanent one, and I wanted my water's edge to be frozen in the winter for ice access. We went with the crank-up and have never looked back. (and, my property value has certainly NOT decreased...)

[MeredithMan]

....I knew right after I put up my previous post that I used the wrong spelling for "cite". Sorry, I'm a spelling and grammar snob, all thanks to Mrs Long back in 10th grade English many moons ago....

(This should make the teachers on the forum happy )

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

....I knew right after I put up my previous post that I used the wrong spelling for "cite". Sorry, I'm a spelling and grammar snob, all thanks to Mrs Long back in 10th grade English many moons ago....

(This should make the teachers on the forum happy )

I mean, if we want to get technical, there should only be three dots for ellipses, the period after "cite" should be inside the quotation marks, and there should be a period after "Mrs," but I very much appreciate the sentiment!

PS As an English teacher, it's BRUTAL to be active in online forums.

PPS I see permission to be playful given our PM thread, but feel free to tell me to pound sand.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[MeredithMan]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I mean, if we want to get technical, there should only be three dots for ellipses, the period after "cite" should be inside the quotation marks, and there should be a period after "Mrs," but I very much appreciate the sentiment!

PS As an English teacher, it's BRUTAL to be active in online forums.

PPS I see permission to be playful given our PM thread, but feel free to tell me to pound sand.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Touche; you are correct! And no worries; I love friendly trash-talk! I've had two kids in college 8 straight years, one right after the other. I can't tell you how many papers and assignments I have checked for spelling and grammar from afar. The one consolation, however, would be when I would receive the phone call with the exclamation, "Dad, we got a A on our paper!"

[RUGMAN]

Other than Watermark, Ambroise or Winni Marine, has any one had any other recommendations for permanent dock repair/replace companies that work on Winni.

[garysanfran]

Doesn't a permanent dock increase your property Tax?

[Descant]

Island Construction rebuilt our 60 year old permanent dock. Good work, stuck to the original price estimate. It took longer than expected because of delays in getting Trex decking. Work involved driving new pilings, removal of old pre-stressed concrete dock. We should be good for another 60 years. That's a permanent dock for me.

[winterh]

No dock is permanent once that ice starts moving. I have a grandfathered dock that is very large and unique so I love having it but the first ice out after purchase (2012) it was ripped apart by moving ice. Fixed it and no problems since but every spring is a hold your breath moment till the ice is gone. If I was starting from scratch I would go with a crank up and avoid the worries. Had one installed by Watermark at my old place and it was great. I believe you are allowed a 40 ft crank up but only 30 ft if permanent so that may be a factor as well.

[tis]

I agree winterh. We don't have to adjust the posts every year now that we have a crank up. I also believe the state doesn't want a permanent dock any more unless you are grandfathered.

[TiltonBB]

You are allowed to replace your dock with a dock of up to the same size. I have two crank ups, one is 47 feet and it replaced a 47 foot seasonal (pipe) dock.

After cranking the two docks up every year for the past 15 years, I bought a 12 volt electric winch at Harbor Freight that works great. I take it out once a year and it mounts on a tree. Pushing the button is way easier!

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by winterh

No dock is permanent once that ice starts moving. I have a grandfathered dock that is very large and unique so I love having it but the first ice out after purchase (2012) it was ripped apart by moving ice. Fixed it and no problems since but every spring is a hold your breath moment till the ice is gone. If I was starting from scratch I would go with a crank up and avoid the worries. Had one installed by Watermark at my old place and it was great. I believe you are allowed a 40 ft crank up but only 30 ft if permanent so that may be a factor as well.

It really all depends on where the dock is located. My old place on Mark Island still has a 3 finger permanent crib dock that I installed back in 2004 in place and it has not moved, but its located in the bay between Mark and Bear. If out in the open, all bets are off.

Dock length is dictated by frontage and depth. You are correct on the standards being 40' for crank up. A permanent depends on depth. The definition of a slip comes into play, which is 25' of length once you hit 3' of depth at full lake. Ours were 30' long for the inner slips as we had plenty of depth. The outer sides were 36' because of attaching walkway.

https://www.des.nh.gov/sites/g/files...0-01/wb-19.pdf

Our new seasonal/removable dock (permitted) on Bear is 75' long, with a U starting at about 50' out to one side. We are very shallow to say the least!

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by RUGMAN

Other than Watermark, Ambrose or Winni Marine, has any one had any other recommendations for permanent dock repair/replace companies that work on Winni.

I would keep Diversified on the list. He has done a lot of work for me over the years and its all been good. Lots in the last 2 years on Bear. He has gotten better over the years on managing workloads and not booking too far out. He just did the permanent docks down at the new condos on Paugus Bay and did the ones at Akwa Beach Bar as well, so you can see his work easily.

Watermark is awesome, but plan on waiting a year or two due to their workload. Ambrose quoted me ridiculous pricing on some projects a while back so I have stayed away.

[CaptT820]

To answer the original tax question. In some communities (Alton), you do get taxed separately for your dock/breakwater if it is permanent.

I spoke with DES recently and they do not necessarily want permanent docks, but will allow them. Something to keep in mind is that permanent docks can typically only be 30-ft in length 6-ft wide, unless grandfathered. Even a U-shaped dock can only be 12-ft wide in the middle berth and then 30-ft long on each finger. A crank-up style dock can be 40-ft long on each finger.

We are going with Tobin at Ambrose marine to construct ours, but he is 18 months out right now, so it'll be a bit of a wait.

NHDES is 37-40 days out on permit reviews right now too, so get those in early if you need one.

[tis]

Originally Posted by CaptT820

To answer the original tax question. In some communities (Alton), you do get taxed separately for your dock/breakwater if it is permanent.

I spoke with DES recently and they do not necessarily want permanent docks, but will allow them. Something to keep in mind is that permanent docks can typically only be 30-ft in length 6-ft wide, unless grandfathered. Even a U-shaped dock can only be 12-ft wide in the middle berth and then 30-ft long on each finger. A crank-up style dock can be 40-ft long on each finger.

We are going with Tobin at Ambrose marine to construct ours, but he is 18 months out right now, so it'll be a bit of a wait.

NHDES is 37-40 days out on permit reviews right now too, so get those in early if you need one.

Good for you! Tobin is great!