Ground Faults

dpg · 11-22-2010, 07:17 AM

Question.....Can Ground Fault Outlets somehow wear out or something and start "tripping" for no reason? I have a sun room with one and it's shut down the power in the room 3-4 times a day for like the last 5 days. Nothings changed that I'm doing in the room why all of a sudden??? I do plug in two little oil filled heaters at night to help keep it warm sometimes (maybe once a month) it used to do it when it was really cold out (last winter). Why all of a sudden 3-4 times a day??? Sometimes when the heaters are not even on.

MarkinNH · 11-22-2010, 07:47 AM

I have replaced many a GFCI outlet for similar reasons. Most times when they go bad they won't reset period. I have actually had them be bad right out of the box.
Their fairly inexpensive to buy and very simple to replace. IMO replacing it would be the first step in troubleshooting the problem. If a new outlet stops the problem then your good to go. If the problem returns or persists then you or an electrician needs to dig deeper into the circuit in question.

fatlazyless · 11-22-2010, 08:05 AM

Some appliances like hot tubs and large portable dishwashers will run on 110v-15 or 20 amp lines and have a gfi designed right into the appliance's plug. For those type gfi, best to get an original equipment replacement.

Wonder-O-what could it be within the gfi that causes it to go bad and no longer work as designed?

Kamper · 11-22-2010, 08:14 AM

The switches are mechanical devices and do wear out. I don't know how many "trips" makes up a life-time but I have replaced a couple old outlets that would not reset. They were in damp locations so corrosion might have been a factor to.

I'm surprised that all the power in the room comes through that one GFCI outlet but it does make sense since everything down line from there will be protected by the GFCI unit. When you replace the outlet get the little tester plug to be certain it is wired it correctly. Make a note of where the the wires go on the original installation and you'll be fine unless it was incorrectly done in the first place.

Almost every book on home-maintence/improvment will have diagrams on these installations and the directions with the merchandise are good too. Don't worry if the new units don't have the black and red buttons. These items are beng used in a wider variety of places these days, so they are made to be less cosmetically intrusive.

...And that's all I think I know about that. Good luck!

brk-lnt · 11-22-2010, 08:28 AM

Yes, they can and do wear out, and are relatively easy to replace if you're handy.

GFCI's sense a disparity in the current flowing OUT through the hot (black wire) and current coming back through the neutral (white wire). If it senses more current going out than coming back, it trips. This is based on the presumption that some of the current is flowing back through an unapproved ground (like a human body

)

Faulty wiring, nicked conductors, and moisture can also cause a GFCI outlet to trip. I've also seen them trip from large inductive loads (motors) starting and stopping.

If you replace it and it continues to trip with no load on the GFCI or downstream outlets, then you probably have a faulty wiring issue.

dpg · 11-22-2010, 08:40 AM

Thanks - maybe I'll start by buying a new one this week. I'll copy the original wiring I have there now as it was done by an electrician when it was originally installed. It's not real old I'd guess maybe 10 years now. I'm not real confident it is wearing "mechanically" up till the past 5 days or so it has maybe tripped 5 times/yr on average. But, one never knows I suppose. Oh neglected (forgot) to mention another peice of the puzzle. I had to return/swap my High Def. cable box last Friday also. When I reset the room at the ground fault the box was dead must of taken some kind of current surge or something. Maybe a coincidence but weird timing to not be related. Last night I ran an extension cord into the next room (different circuit) that had some computer stuff on it just to try easing up on the load in the room. Got up this morning to it being tripped again even after doing that.

CL 240 LS · 11-22-2010, 09:08 AM

DPG
It's sounds like you may have had a "surge" that hit some of your electronics. The GFCI receptacle has electronic sensors that can be degraded by repetitive surges. There are new design features in these devices and some have better surge resistance. Look for Leviton weather resistant (WR)rated GFCI receptacles as these have this feature. You might have to go to a supply house for these.

Kamper · 11-22-2010, 11:17 AM

Get a surge protector for those sensitive electronics. Oh, don't forget to shut off the juice at the circuit breaker.

NoBozo · 11-22-2010, 02:59 PM

Was looking at new hair dryers last week to replace my wifes 32 year old Gillette Promax Compact which BTW still works fine. I had to shorten (rewire) the wire where it exits the handle, because the rubber stress reliever sleeve was no longer doing its job.

My point here in bringing this up: The NEW hair dryers have a GFCI built directly into the plug at the end of the wire.

NB

11-22-2010, 07:17 AM	#1
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,597 Thanks: 153 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	Ground Faults Question.....Can Ground Fault Outlets somehow wear out or something and start "tripping" for no reason? I have a sun room with one and it's shut down the power in the room 3-4 times a day for like the last 5 days. Nothings changed that I'm doing in the room why all of a sudden??? I do plug in two little oil filled heaters at night to help keep it warm sometimes (maybe once a month) it used to do it when it was really cold out (last winter). Why all of a sudden 3-4 times a day??? Sometimes when the heaters are not even on.

11-22-2010, 08:05 AM	#3
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	Some appliances like hot tubs and large portable dishwashers will run on 110v-15 or 20 amp lines and have a gfi designed right into the appliance's plug. For those type gfi, best to get an original equipment replacement. Wonder-O-what could it be within the gfi that causes it to go bad and no longer work as designed? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

11-22-2010, 08:28 AM	#5
brk-lnt Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Down Shores Posts: 1,944 Thanks: 544 Thanked 570 Times in 335 Posts	Yes, they can and do wear out, and are relatively easy to replace if you're handy. GFCI's sense a disparity in the current flowing OUT through the hot (black wire) and current coming back through the neutral (white wire). If it senses more current going out than coming back, it trips. This is based on the presumption that some of the current is flowing back through an unapproved ground (like a human body ) Faulty wiring, nicked conductors, and moisture can also cause a GFCI outlet to trip. I've also seen them trip from large inductive loads (motors) starting and stopping. If you replace it and it continues to trip with no load on the GFCI or downstream outlets, then you probably have a faulty wiring issue. __________________ [insert witty phrase here]

11-22-2010, 07:47 AM	#2
MarkinNH Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 392 Thanks: 177 Thanked 146 Times in 76 Posts	I have replaced many a GFCI outlet for similar reasons. Most times when they go bad they won't reset period. I have actually had them be bad right out of the box. Their fairly inexpensive to buy and very simple to replace. IMO replacing it would be the first step in troubleshooting the problem. If a new outlet stops the problem then your good to go. If the problem returns or persists then you or an electrician needs to dig deeper into the circuit in question.

11-22-2010, 08:14 AM	#4
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,306 Thanks: 67 Thanked 171 Times in 127 Posts	The switches are mechanical devices and do wear out. I don't know how many "trips" makes up a life-time but I have replaced a couple old outlets that would not reset. They were in damp locations so corrosion might have been a factor to. I'm surprised that all the power in the room comes through that one GFCI outlet but it does make sense since everything down line from there will be protected by the GFCI unit. When you replace the outlet get the little tester plug to be certain it is wired it correctly. Make a note of where the the wires go on the original installation and you'll be fine unless it was incorrectly done in the first place. Almost every book on home-maintence/improvment will have diagrams on these installations and the directions with the merchandise are good too. Don't worry if the new units don't have the black and red buttons. These items are beng used in a wider variety of places these days, so they are made to be less cosmetically intrusive. ...And that's all I think I know about that. Good luck!

The Following User Says Thank You to brk-lnt For This Useful Post:
fatlazyless (11-22-2010)

11-22-2010, 08:40 AM	#6
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,597 Thanks: 153 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	Thanks - maybe I'll start by buying a new one this week. I'll copy the original wiring I have there now as it was done by an electrician when it was originally installed. It's not real old I'd guess maybe 10 years now. I'm not real confident it is wearing "mechanically" up till the past 5 days or so it has maybe tripped 5 times/yr on average. But, one never knows I suppose. Oh neglected (forgot) to mention another peice of the puzzle. I had to return/swap my High Def. cable box last Friday also. When I reset the room at the ground fault the box was dead must of taken some kind of current surge or something. Maybe a coincidence but weird timing to not be related. Last night I ran an extension cord into the next room (different circuit) that had some computer stuff on it just to try easing up on the load in the room. Got up this morning to it being tripped again even after doing that.

11-22-2010, 09:08 AM	#7
CL 240 LS Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 98 Thanks: 25 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	DPG It's sounds like you may have had a "surge" that hit some of your electronics. The GFCI receptacle has electronic sensors that can be degraded by repetitive surges. There are new design features in these devices and some have better surge resistance. Look for Leviton weather resistant (WR)rated GFCI receptacles as these have this feature. You might have to go to a supply house for these.

11-22-2010, 11:17 AM	#8
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,306 Thanks: 67 Thanked 171 Times in 127 Posts	Get a surge protector for those sensitive electronics. Oh, don't forget to shut off the juice at the circuit breaker.

11-22-2010, 02:59 PM	#9
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	Was looking at new hair dryers last week to replace my wifes 32 year old Gillette Promax Compact which BTW still works fine. I had to shorten (rewire) the wire where it exits the handle, because the rubber stress reliever sleeve was no longer doing its job. My point here in bringing this up: The NEW hair dryers have a GFCI built directly into the plug at the end of the wire. NB