What happened in Wolfboro ?

[Bigstan]

https://www.wmur.com/article/road-cl...ation/24039916

No real news yet.....

[Irish mist]

1 person murdered, 1 injured.

[Cindido]

https://www.wmur.com/article/state-o...eboro/24068355

[umbrellapoint]

https://www.wolfeboronh.us/sites/wol...ed_version.pdf

[TCC]

A tragic event for our little community. My prayers go out for the families affected. From the press release, I'd guess an attempted murder-suicide, but that's just a guess . . .

[gokart-mozart]

I have been wondering why the more or less standard "no danger to the community" statement had not been released, and, here it is!

[tis]

Originally Posted by TCC

A tragic event for our little community. My prayers go out for the families affected. From the press release, I'd guess an attempted murder-suicide, but that's just a guess . . .

I think maybe a triangle.

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by Cindido

https://www.wmur.com/article/state-o...eboro/24068355

Really... go back inside and lock the doors??? Why... are the police dangerous??

[fatlazyless]

https://www.concordmonitor.com/New-H...-year-12741379 A Concord Monitor, Oct 9, 2017, article on suicides in NH.

Handguns are very very powerful and deadly, and it is very easy, taking just a split second to pull that trigger, and once that trigger is pulled, one cannot put the bullet back into the gun to undo what you just done did.

[iw8surf]

Originally Posted by swnoel

Really... go back inside and lock the doors??? Why... are the police dangerous??

Something like 13% of the US population would say "Yes, yes the police are dangerous"

[Bigstan]

Originally Posted by iw8surf

Something like 13% of the US population would say "Yes, yes the police are dangerous"

They must be the criminals then.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

https://www.concordmonitor.com/New-H...-year-12741379 A Concord Monitor, Oct 9, 2017, article on suicides in NH.

Handguns are very very powerful and deadly, and it is very easy, taking just a split second to pull that trigger, and once that trigger is pulled, one cannot put the bullet back into the gun to undo what you just done did.

Thanks....none of us were aware of that : /

[MAXUM]

At the time the police gave the guidance to go home and lock the doors likely is because they did not at the time have a full understanding of the situation, and whether or not there was still an outstanding existential threat in the area. The last thing the police need to deal with is a bunch of bystanders out in the open with the possibility of some at large armed lunatic running around.

[Cindido]

http://www.unionleader.com/article/2...WS03/181029773

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Thanks....none of us were aware of that : /

When I wrote this post I was thinking this Wolfeboro homicide shooting was a suicide, so i was thinking about the ease of pulling the trigger as related to a self-inflicted suicide.

Every gun ever made for the last hundred years all have one thing in common, once that trigger gets pulled, the bullet cannot be put back into the gun ...... meaning ..... that shot cannot be undone .... which applies to suicides and a shooting like this one in Wolfeboro.

[Pineedles]

You are actually wrong FLL. There is a type of trigger, used on trap shotguns that is called a "Release Trigger". The shotgun doesn't fire when the trigger is pulled and held. It fires when you "release" the trigger.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

When I wrote this post I was thinking this Wolfeboro homicide shooting was a suicide, so i was thinking about the ease of pulling the trigger as related to a self-inflicted suicide.

Every gun ever made for the last hundred years all have one thing in common, once that trigger gets pulled, the bullet cannot be put back into the gun ...... meaning ..... that shot cannot be undone .... which applies to suicides and a shooting like this one in Wolfeboro.

I've seen videos on the internet where it leaves the gun barrel and then goes back in. If it's on the internet it must be real!

[WinnisquamZ]

After reading the information that has been released, the only things we know for sure are two people were shot, both known by the local police and the others in the house at the time are not talking. One thing we did learn is the town of Wolfeboro has a crack den!!!


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[SAMIAM]

Strange…..not a word on the evening news. I heard the woman has also died so that's two murders and still nothing.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

After reading the information that has been released, the only things we know for sure are two people were shot, both known by the local police and the others in the house at the time are not talking. One thing we did learn is the town of Wolfeboro has a crack den!!!


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Well, Trump did denounce NH as a "drug infested den."

[gokart-mozart]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Strange…..not a word on the evening news. I heard the woman has also died so that's two murders and still nothing.

I, as well as many other people, have heard that as well, but it has not been confirmed by NHSP, nor has the name of the hospital she was taken to.

I presume the reason to withhold this information (if it is true) is that it gives the LEOs some kind of advantage over the shooter which could lead to his/her capture.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Well, Trump did denounce NH as a "drug infested den."

As usual, our President is correct. Downtown Laconia certainly exhibits this statement.

I just got gas at Irving's on Union Ave., two tweakers with life belongings in backpacks hanging around the front of the store. I'm sure the store is thrilled to have such a welcoming presence. Couple this with a parade of drug addicts walking up and down Court, Main and Pleasant Streets. Can't park in the Citizens Bank parking lot because of the "treatment" center next door. And the cherry on the top is LRGH solving their financial woes by focusing on treatment. Goody, even more drug addicts will come.

So yes, certain areas are drug infested dens.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Well, Trump did denounce NH as a "drug infested den."

A tough issue.

Sure, drug addicts are an adomination, but they pretty much all started out as decent people, with potential.

Why did they veer off the path?

What was absent in their lives, in their environment, that led them to seek chemical escape?

[tis]

I hate to repeat things because it's not really my business to, but I heard she was on life support and, if I remember the day right, it was the second night after she was shot, the family was told to make the decision. So I don't know if she is still on life support or not. They both had kids.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

As usual, our President is correct. Downtown Laconia certainly exhibits this statement.

I just got gas at Irving's on Union Ave., two tweakers with life belongings in backpacks hanging around the front of the store. I'm sure the store is thrilled to have such a welcoming presence. Couple this with a parade of drug addicts walking up and down Court, Main and Pleasant Streets. Can't park in the Citizens Bank parking lot because of the "treatment" center next door. And the cherry on the top is LRGH solving their financial woes by focusing on treatment. Goody, even more drug addicts will come.

So yes, certain areas are drug infested dens.

I thought they arrested you in Florida today?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I thought they arrested you in Florida today?

No such luck! I would never do anything to hurt the BIG RED WAVE that will occur in 11 days. All this knucklehead did was hurt our cause.

[TCC]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

What was absent in their lives, in their environment, that led them to seek chemical escape?

We could make a good guess: responsible, loving parents, positive role models, dedicated educators, a solid grounding in Christian values .... And conversely, what was present? A degenerate pop culture (music, movies, television), peer pressure amplified by out-of-control social media ....

I can't understand why anyone is the least bit surprised.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Why did they veer off the path?

What was absent in their lives, in their environment, that led them to seek chemical escape?

From personal experience I don't believe that it is necessarily the environment they are raised in. Some people are just different. Their brains are different. A "normal" person might perceive something happening in their life as a positive, enjoyable experience and a "different" person might interpret an almost identical occurrence as as very disturbing. Add up enough "disturbing" perceptions, "real" or not, and a person might seek some form of escape. Why does this happen? For some it's a measurable brain chemistry difference. For others it's just a physical neurological abnormality; an area of the brain under or over developed.

For some people, the environment certainly is bad and has an effect. But others, raised in horrible environments, turn out to be pretty well balanced.

It is not a simple thing to understand and very individualized. Because of that, there is not a one size fits all solution. That's what makes it so hard to deal with. Solutions for one are useless for another. Solutions that don't work for an individual today, might work 2 years from now.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by jeffk

From personal experience I don't believe that it is necessarily the environment they are raised in. Some people are just different. Their brains are different. A "normal" person might perceive something happening in their life as a positive, enjoyable experience and a "different" person might interpret an almost identical occurrence as as very disturbing. Add up enough "disturbing" perceptions, "real" or not, and a person might seek some form of escape. Why does this happen? For some it's a measurable brain chemistry difference. For others it's just a physical neurological abnormality; an area of the brain under or over developed.

For some people, the environment certainly is bad and has an effect. But others, raised in horrible environments, turn out to be pretty well balanced.

It is not a simple thing to understand and very individualized. Because of that, there is not a one size fits all solution. That's what makes it so hard to deal with. Solutions for one are useless for another. Solutions that don't work for an individual today, might work 2 years from now.

Mental health & addictive response. Combine depression & the latest/popular drug and you will have some people, from any population, from anytime in history, suffering from this. Some non-depressed become addicted and many depressed dont become addicts but the combo is at the center of it. Talk to ANYONE who has spent time professionally dealing with this.

[tis]

https://www.wmur.com/article/woman-i...icide/24284725

[Irish mist]

So the Lakes Region General Hospital got rid of their maternity ward & is now committed to becoming a major hub in drug treatment.

Some trade-off

[Major]

Originally Posted by Irish mist

So the Lakes Region General Hospital got rid of their maternity ward & is now committed to becoming a major hub in drug treatment.



Some trade-off

Yes. Big money.


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[Cobalt 25]

The war on drugs has been a complete and total failure since the 70s. Lengthy incarceration and extreme sentencing for minor drug infractions have not worked. Rescinding the Rockefeller Laws has been a start.

We need to try something different, in my opinion. Programs involving rehabilitation instead of incarceration have shown some success, and some success is better than no success at all.

[8gv]

Each addict started off as somebody's little girl or boy.

Bad parenting can produce an addict.

Good parenting can also produce an addict.

Once addicted there are three possible outcomes:

Incarceration, death or rehab.

I support rehab as the least of these three evils.

Rehab is a worthy pursuit for the hospital and I am glad to see it happen.

[WinnisquamZ]

A worthy pursuit? At the cost of a birth center when the city is attempting to bring in young families.


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[8gv]

How many births were happening?

Not enough to pay the bills I think.

All the gray haired folks I see around town seem to have stopped reproducing.

Young families need jobs that pay better than service positions.

I suspect that and the cost of residence would be more important factors for young families to move to Laconia.

[jeffk]

Rehab is a option. But in the personal experience I had, the person went through over 15 rehab experiences of all sorts, mental health and drug addiction, inpatient and outpatient, medications, over 10 years. Lots of counseling as well. While they provided a place of stabilization and safety, they didn't "work"; the problems repeated. Now the person is "stable" but not "cured". I would say there is less likelihood of a recurrence but the person is vulnerable. Further, I would say I do not credit any of the therapy and support as getting the person to this point beyond the fact that they did provide the "stabilization and safety" at times to allow the person to move through life until the person reached a point of self readiness to be more stable.

Consider trying to get repair work done on your car for 10 years and the many "mechanics" working on it could NOT get it to run right. Would you consider that mechanics in general knew what they were doing? I could agree that the car might have some internal flaw that no mechanic could fix. But the good mechanic should KNOW that and tell you to ditch the car (not possible with a person). You should at least know what you are dealing with. Some of the inherent nature of medicine, confident diagnosis and treatment, simply doesn't apply with addition. Doctors don't know what what exactly they are doing and can't predict how an individual patient will respond.

For drug addiction/mental health issues, I consider our current system a sophisticated but flawed babysitting system trying to keep the baby safe until some "maturity" happens. Some NEVER mature. The system doesn't make the baby mature. It's a frustrating second childhood in which much of the support/legal landscape simply does not work well and unfortunately many babies do not survive.

[Mr. V]

How to change undesirable behavior?

I once had an epiphany while watching Kubrick's "Clockwork Orange" when the main character was forced to undergo behavior modification therapy.

Why couldn't / shouldn't this sort of thing be incorporated more into modern life, for addicts, convicts and others?

[Patofnaud]

Originally Posted by 8gv

How many births were happening?

Not enough to pay the bills I think.

All the gray haired folks I see around town seem to have stopped reproducing.

Young families need jobs that pay better than service positions.

I suspect that and the cost of residence would be more important factors for young families to move to Laconia.

Exactly why LRGH dropped the maternity ward. No one was going and it was bleeding money. Folks want the fancy big private room with all the stuff that LRGH could not afford to invest in at this time.

Rehab is just filling the void left behind. Not displacing it.

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

How to change undesirable behavior?

I once had an epiphany while watching Kubrick's "Clockwork Orange" when the main character was forced to undergo behavior modification therapy.

Why couldn't / shouldn't this sort of thing be incorporated more into modern life, for addicts, convicts and others?

I guess your suggesting something like the "Stepford Wives"

[ApS]

Originally Posted by 8gv

Each addict started off as somebody's little girl or boy.

Bad parenting can produce an addict.

Good parenting can also produce an addict.

Once addicted there are three possible outcomes:

Incarceration, death or rehab.

I support rehab as the least of these three evils.

Rehab is a worthy pursuit for the hospital and I am glad to see it happen.

How would parents' "toking" factor into "good parenting"?

[8gv]

Originally Posted by ApS

How would parents' "toking" factor into "good parenting"?

I don’t really understand the question.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Patofnaud

Exactly why LRGH dropped the maternity ward. No one was going and it was bleeding money. Folks want the fancy big private room with all the stuff that LRGH could not afford to invest in at this time.

Rehab is just filling the void left behind. Not displacing it.

It was not that the maternity department didn't have patients, it was that a disproportionate number of patients either had no insurance or they were on Medicaid which pays pennies on the dollar. When a hospital has little opportunity for income to keep pace with expenses, that segment of the business has to go. Maternity / Obstetrics Malpractice Insurance had skyrocketed over the past several years, and tis has contributed to the closing of several hospitals maternity ward / delivery rooms. Huggins ran into a similar situation a few years back as well, and for the same reasons.

The patients are there but the income from the services to those patients is not there.

Dave

Back to what happened in Wolfeboro. We've gotten a little of topic. Sorry for my part in that.

[tis]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

It was not that the maternity department didn't have patients, it was that a disproportionate number of patients either had no insurance or they were on Medicaid which pays pennies on the dollar. When a hospital has little opportunity for income to keep pace with expenses, that segment of the business has to go. Maternity / Obstetrics Malpractice Insurance had skyrocketed over the past several years, and tis has contributed to the closing of several hospitals maternity ward / delivery rooms. Huggins ran into a similar situation a few years back as well, and for the same reasons.

The patients are there but the income from the services to those patients is not there.

Dave

Back to what happened in Wolfeboro. We've gotten a little of topic. Sorry for my part in that.

Interesting. I didn't know that was the real story.

[Bigstan]

Originally Posted by tis

Interesting. I didn't know that was the real story.

So the hospital is dependent on state subsidized dollars to the point they need to cater to that? Is that an opinion or fact is what I am asking....

I am re-thinking my long term plans here more and more, there just seems to be no plan anywhere from anyone as to how to subsidize growth or revitalization....

No wonder you can buy a place in my community for what it brought in the 80's....maybe I am the last to know.

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by Bigstan

So the hospital is dependent on state subsidized dollars to the point they need to cater to that? Is that an opinion or fact is what I am asking....

I am re-thinking my long term plans here more and more, there just seems to be no plan anywhere from anyone as to how to subsidize growth or revitalization....

No wonder you can buy a place in my community for what it brought in the 80's....maybe I am the last to know.

The last 20 years or so in Laconia have been a boondoggle of epic proportions. Constant screw-ups: Massive Section 8 subsidies. Catering to drug rehab for easy & quick money. Millions for a job-park on the Gilford/Laconia town line that has no industry. Turned Weirs Beach into a parking lot....could go on forrrrever

[ApS]

Originally Posted by tis

Interesting. I didn't know that was the real story.

Also discussed here in 2010:

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ead.php?t=9965

[fatlazyless]

Well ...... New Hampshire has the second oldest median age in the USA, with Maine the oldest, and Belknap County has an older median than Maine ..... so, that's pretty old. Median age numbers like 42 and 43, or something ....... just so old, old, old, old?

Oldies just have to step up to the plate, and start hav'n more babies!!!

[tis]

APS, I don't want to reread the whole thread. I know Huggins discontinued maternity, I didn't realize it was because of people that didn't pay or low Medicaid etc. payments.

Sorry for continuing to take this off topic.

[fatlazyless]

Well ...... apparently, what happens in Wolfeboro ..... stays in Wolfeboro! ..... what with the dearth of information on the shooting one week ago, sometime on Sunday, October 21, with two people shot and both now dead.

Was it a murder-suicide, or a case where two people were shot by an unknown third party? One things for sure, when you get shot by a third party, it's no party for you!

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Well ...... apparently, what happens in Wolfeboro ..... stays in Wolfeboro! ..... what with the dearth of information on the shooting one week ago, with two people shot dead.

Was it a murder-suicide, or a case where two people were shot by an unknown third party? One things for sure, when you get shot by a third party, it's no party for you!

The autopsies done on the man and the woman each listed the manner of death as "homicide".

Dave

[fatlazyless]

Believe that both a suicide and getting shot by an unknown shooter are both considered to be a homicide? A suicide is a homicide. A shooting by an unknown shooter is a homicide.

So, what exactly happened here in Wolfeboro, NH, sometime on Sunday, October 21, 2018 with two now dead ..... people who are bored out of their mind ...... and have nothing better to do ...... want to know!

[8gv]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Well ...... New Hampshire has the second oldest median age in the USA, with Maine the oldest, and Belknap County has an older median than Maine ..... so, that's pretty old. Median age numbers like 42 and 43, or something ....... just so old, old, old, old?

Oldies just have to step up to the plate, and start hav'n more babies!!!

We are trying but at 60 it's not working...so far.

[tis]

It does not appear to be a suicide. All we know is what different rumors we hear and there are plenty but none of them seem to indicate suicide. The latest I heard was she stepped in front of him as somebody was shooting at him. I think that the only facts we know for sure are they both died (the woman after she was taken off life support), he was under house arrest, his parents own the house, he has a little girl and he was trying to get his life together for her.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I thought they arrested you in Florida today?

What a ridiculous thing to say about a forum member, particularly a member of the court. Had you put a smiley or LOL at the end, it would have been taken as a tongue in cheek joke, but you failed to do so.

His politics may differ from yours, but to liken him to a whack-job who mailed pipe bombs to 10 plus people is obscene. His response to you was far more measured than you deserved.

[Major]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

What a ridiculous thing to say about a forum member, particularly a member of the court. Had you put a smiley or LOL at the end, it would have been taken as a tongue in cheek joke, but you failed to do so.

His politics may differ from yours, but to liken him to a whack-job who mailed pipe bombs to 10 plus people is obscene. His response to you was far more measured than you deserved.

Thanks for watching my back John. I took it as a tongue-in-cheek joke. However, given today's level of social discourse, he may not have been joking.

Hope all is well.

[Patiently Watching]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Believe that both a suicide and getting shot by an unknown shooter are both considered to be a homicide? A suicide is a homicide. A shooting by an unknown shooter is a homicide.

So, what exactly happened here in Wolfeboro, NH, sometime on Sunday, October 21, 2018 with two now dead ..... people who are bored out of their mind ...... and have nothing better to do ...... want to know!

Homicide is one person killing another. Suicide is not a form of homicide.

[fatlazyless]

So, what about the suicide victim with the 3-part personality; within this one adult male there is a nice guy, a smart guy, and an angry violent guy when not able to get high on methamphetamine ...... if the nice and smart guy(s) turn into the angry violent guy because he really wants some more meth ..... but cannot get any ..... if he commits SUICIDE with a handgun ..... hasn't the angry violent guy committed HOMICIDE against both the nice guy and the smart guy ..... killing all three of himself .... with his behavior modified by the need for more meth? ......... ho-ho-ho

[Woodsy]

According to this the case is closed...... It was a love triangle. Awful for all who were/are involved.

http://www.unionleader.com/news/crim...lock_id=664686

Woodsy

[8gv]

How many kids are left behind?

Who were the parents of the kids?

They will need life long help.

I believe murder suicide is best performed in reverse.

[Cindido]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...HQJ/story.html

[Top-Water]

@ Woodsy & Cindido

Thanks for the concluding articles about this tragedy.

[Lakesailor]

What hospital did he, the murderer, check himself into? Was it Huggins? Did police question him there? Seems like it was a pretty slow investigation, then he just checks himself out at will and kills himself? A lot of unanswered questions, at least in the newspaper article

[gokart-mozart]

Originally Posted by Lakesailor

What hospital did he, the murderer, check himself into? Was it Huggins? Did police question him there? Seems like it was a pretty slow investigation, then he just checks himself out at will and kills himself? A lot of unanswered questions, at least in the newspaper article

He was not a patient at Huggins.

Memorial has a psych unit but I do not know if he was there or not. The police cannot arrest a psych inpatient until "medically cleared", it seems to me that if he had a medical admission and not a psych admission he would have been arrested at the hospital.

If (just speculating) he "checked himself in" for suicidal ideation and was allowed to leave "not a danger to self" there's a problem.

Of course, he just saved the taxpayers a mountain of cash, so there's that.