Help, I lost a leg!

Cow Man · 04-03-2006, 07:17 PM

After turning back on Friday due to large ice flows, I was able to go to our camp on Cow by boat from Harilla on Saturday.

Although I had wanted to make it by boat in March for the first time, April 1 ain't bad!
The camp has some electrical problems: every GFI outlet and 240 volt appliance didn't work and the pump didn't develop much pressure. I suspect lightening or power outages blew the cartridge type fuse in the circuit breaker pannel causing the loss of one 120 v leg.
Anyone care to venture an alternative guess or offer an oppinion on this or other electrical problems? Who does island electrical work? I was using Action Electric and he was great but the phone number I have is now disconnected.

Despite no hot h2o, fridge, etc., the peace and quiet were welcome! It's gonna be a great year!

Mee-n-Mac · 04-03-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cow Man

(snip) The camp has some electrical problems: every GFI outlet and 240 volt appliance didn't work and the pump didn't develop much pressure. I suspect lightening or power outages blew the cartridge type fuse in the circuit breaker pannel causing the loss of one 120 v leg.
Anyone care to venture an alternative guess or offer an oppinion on this or other electrical problems? (snip)

Is your pump 120 or 240 v ? I can understand why the 240V appliances won't work given a missing leg, and how lightning (or something else) may have tripped the GFI's (were they just tripped or are they still dead after reset ?) but I'm not sure why a pump (assuming 120V) would work slowly. I'm assuming it was off for the winter. I'd think it would be kinda hard for line surges to get through an open switch with enough oomf to damage a pump. Perhaps the pump problem is completely separate and has more to do with a clog or air in the system ???? Time to get out the volt meter and probe some plugs.

Rattlesnake Gal · 04-03-2006, 07:38 PM

Sorry I can't help with your electrical problem, but I just had to say that you made me laugh with your "Help! I lost a leg!"

With a start like that, you can't lose.
I am sorry you're having trouble at the camp.

Good luck.

Seaplane Pilot · 04-04-2006, 09:16 AM

Call Greg Brooks Electric 603-767-3824. He should be able to help.

TomC · 04-04-2006, 01:03 PM

..remaining on or connected are providing the current path, though resistive, to the dead leg. any 110v load on that (dead) side will be low, slow, dim, etc...

the current will flow through in from the pole on the good 110 leg, through all 220 loads in parallel if more than one (pump, stove, water heater, baseboard heaters, etc) drop in voltage, then flow through 110v loads on that (dead) side, and finally flow out the neutral...

jimbob1603 · 04-04-2006, 02:31 PM

Wow,
You haven't lived until you see a large scale factory, not fitted with auto phase trip, drop 1 of 3 phases. Its a very, very expensive light show ..... not so nice to watch the machinery run backwards, accelerate out of control, burn out, blow up, etc.. . The 'powers that be' didn't want to spend the money for the correct switch gear when the plant was built .....'you can pay me now, or you can pay me a lot more later ...' Heck, the electrical contractor could afford to buy the Walgreen boat-house, cash, with that repair bill!!

For a residential, 1 phase application; like TOMC says, turn off/disconnect any 220v equipment until the faulty leg can be repaired. You run the risk of damaging appliances and even seemingly unrelated equipment as the potential winds itself around your house looking for ground/neutral. If you're not comfortable/knowledgable about electricity, its best to just open the main breaker and call an electrician.
J

ApS · 04-05-2006, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cow Man

"...The camp has some electrical problems: every GFI outlet and 240 volt appliance didn't work and the pump didn't develop much pressure. I suspect lightening or power outages blew the cartridge type fuse in the circuit breaker pannel causing the loss of one 120 v leg..."

Cartridge fuses can't be meter-checked for continuity—I know that much about electricity. You have to replace them with new ones.

Out of curiosity, I cut a bad cartridge fuse open. It was filled with a sandy-appearing insulation. Whatever metal element inside had evaporated, which apparently freed up some space: New fuses don't make any sound when shaken.

There are inexpensive fiberglass pliers made to pull/install cartridge fuses if one's camp doesn't have a "main" switch. Beats the heck out of using paint-stirring sticks!

Cow Man · 04-06-2006, 09:59 AM

Thanks for all the expert help on my potentially shocking problem!
Yes, the pump is a 220 volt and everything had been shut off for the winter. The pump primed but was running slow and not developing pressure. Not having a meter or many tools with me was frustrating, I will be bringing most of Home Depot with me when I return next week.

I did not know that cartridge fuses can’t be tested for continuity, I thought that was how you checked them to see if they were bad. At any rate I think they cost around $3.00 so its probably best just to replace them.
I called the co-op and they are sending someone out to check their equipment as evidently there were some downed trees over the winter that may have messed up their stuff.
It seemed odd that every GFI outlet would not work even after being reset (the outlets were completely dead) and I assume that means the ground is missing or leaking, though the later seems unlikely as everything was working fine when camp closed last fall. Then again, squirrels have munched on my telephone lines in winters past.
If the co-op says their equipment is OK then I will call in the electricians. If the co-op finds a problem with their equipment, then my fellow Cow Islanders will be all set by the time they open their camps.
Either way I’ll let you know what the problem was once I have both my legs back!

SIKSUKR · 04-06-2006, 10:16 AM

Not sure what APS is talking about.I check cartridge fuse all the time by continuity.I have plenty of heavy machinery using either 220 or 440 volt 3-phase in my plant and have always found blown fuses checking continuity with my meter over the last 15 years.I think what he might be refering to is sometimes you might have a continuity reading but the fuse has been blown leaving enough residual continuity to register.Obviously if the fuse has no continuity then it is dead.If you have a meter, check on the load side(the house side) of the fuse on each leg to see if you have power.If you do then the fuse is fine.If you don't have power on the line(coming from the outside) side then the problem is with your power supplier.Be very carefull though!!

trfour · 04-07-2006, 10:44 AM

Also, it could be a bad leg on the PSNH usage meter. This happened at the camp on paugus bay and after checking every fuse and circut braker in the house, I called PSNH, they came right out and found the problem was the meter and installed a new one, ( no charge ).

Cow Man · 04-11-2006, 08:11 AM

I have been delayed in returning to camp but will be going up this afternoon for a two day stay!

I called NHEC and they said it was their equipment and that it has been fixed! I couldn’t get out of them what exactly happened but would assume a downed tree or other anomaly took the leg out from under me. I have heard that even a small limb or branch can short the ground at the transformer and cause this type of symptom.
Anyway, you cow island people are all set now so let’s open those camps!
Thanks to everyone for all the advice I learned a lot from this electrifying experience!

04-03-2006, 07:17 PM	#1
Cow Man Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cow Island / Holderness, NH Posts: 46 Thanks: 4 Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts	Help, I lost a leg! After turning back on Friday due to large ice flows, I was able to go to our camp on Cow by boat from Harilla on Saturday. Although I had wanted to make it by boat in March for the first time, April 1 ain't bad! The camp has some electrical problems: every GFI outlet and 240 volt appliance didn't work and the pump didn't develop much pressure. I suspect lightening or power outages blew the cartridge type fuse in the circuit breaker pannel causing the loss of one 120 v leg. Anyone care to venture an alternative guess or offer an oppinion on this or other electrical problems? Who does island electrical work? I was using Action Electric and he was great but the phone number I have is now disconnected. Despite no hot h2o, fridge, etc., the peace and quiet were welcome! It's gonna be a great year!

04-03-2006, 07:38 PM	#3
Rattlesnake Gal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Central NH Posts: 5,252 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,451 Thanked 1,349 Times in 475 Posts	Great Lead In For A Thread! Sorry I can't help with your electrical problem, but I just had to say that you made me laugh with your "Help! I lost a leg!" With a start like that, you can't lose. I am sorry you're having trouble at the camp. Good luck.

04-04-2006, 01:03 PM	#5
TomC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 660 Thanks: 21 Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts	the 220volt appliances or loads... ..remaining on or connected are providing the current path, though resistive, to the dead leg. any 110v load on that (dead) side will be low, slow, dim, etc... the current will flow through in from the pole on the good 110 leg, through all 220 loads in parallel if more than one (pump, stove, water heater, baseboard heaters, etc) drop in voltage, then flow through 110v loads on that (dead) side, and finally flow out the neutral...

04-04-2006, 02:31 PM	#6
jimbob1603 Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 71 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A lot of potentail ..... Wow, You haven't lived until you see a large scale factory, not fitted with auto phase trip, drop 1 of 3 phases. Its a very, very expensive light show ..... not so nice to watch the machinery run backwards, accelerate out of control, burn out, blow up, etc.. . The 'powers that be' didn't want to spend the money for the correct switch gear when the plant was built .....'you can pay me now, or you can pay me a lot more later ...' Heck, the electrical contractor could afford to buy the Walgreen boat-house, cash, with that repair bill!! For a residential, 1 phase application; like TOMC says, turn off/disconnect any 220v equipment until the faulty leg can be repaired. You run the risk of damaging appliances and even seemingly unrelated equipment as the potential winds itself around your house looking for ground/neutral. If you're not comfortable/knowledgable about electricity, its best to just open the main breaker and call an electrician. J

04-06-2006, 09:59 AM	#8
Cow Man Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cow Island / Holderness, NH Posts: 46 Thanks: 4 Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts	I don't have a leg to stand on! Thanks for all the expert help on my potentially shocking problem! Yes, the pump is a 220 volt and everything had been shut off for the winter. The pump primed but was running slow and not developing pressure. Not having a meter or many tools with me was frustrating, I will be bringing most of Home Depot with me when I return next week. I did not know that cartridge fuses can’t be tested for continuity, I thought that was how you checked them to see if they were bad. At any rate I think they cost around $3.00 so its probably best just to replace them. I called the co-op and they are sending someone out to check their equipment as evidently there were some downed trees over the winter that may have messed up their stuff. It seemed odd that every GFI outlet would not work even after being reset (the outlets were completely dead) and I assume that means the ground is missing or leaking, though the later seems unlikely as everything was working fine when camp closed last fall. Then again, squirrels have munched on my telephone lines in winters past. If the co-op says their equipment is OK then I will call in the electricians. If the co-op finds a problem with their equipment, then my fellow Cow Islanders will be all set by the time they open their camps. Either way I’ll let you know what the problem was once I have both my legs back!

04-04-2006, 09:16 AM	#4
Seaplane Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,177 Thanks: 664 Thanked 943 Times in 368 Posts	Call Greg Brooks Electric 603-767-3824. He should be able to help.

04-06-2006, 10:16 AM	#9
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Not sure what APS is talking about.I check cartridge fuse all the time by continuity.I have plenty of heavy machinery using either 220 or 440 volt 3-phase in my plant and have always found blown fuses checking continuity with my meter over the last 15 years.I think what he might be refering to is sometimes you might have a continuity reading but the fuse has been blown leaving enough residual continuity to register.Obviously if the fuse has no continuity then it is dead.If you have a meter, check on the load side(the house side) of the fuse on each leg to see if you have power.If you do then the fuse is fine.If you don't have power on the line(coming from the outside) side then the problem is with your power supplier.Be very carefull though!! __________________ SIKSUKR

04-07-2006, 10:44 AM	#10
trfour Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lakes, Central NH. and Dallas/Fort Worth TX. Posts: 3,694 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 3,069 Thanked 472 Times in 236 Posts	Also, it could be a bad leg on the PSNH usage meter. This happened at the camp on paugus bay and after checking every fuse and circut braker in the house, I called PSNH, they came right out and found the problem was the meter and installed a new one, ( no charge ). __________________ *trfour* Always Remember, The Best Safety Device In The Boat, or on a PWC Snowmobile etc., Is YOU! Safe sledding tips and much more; http://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-safety.html

04-11-2006, 08:11 AM	#11
Cow Man Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cow Island / Holderness, NH Posts: 46 Thanks: 4 Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts	What’s afoot with my leg? I have been delayed in returning to camp but will be going up this afternoon for a two day stay! I called NHEC and they said it was their equipment and that it has been fixed! I couldn’t get out of them what exactly happened but would assume a downed tree or other anomaly took the leg out from under me. I have heard that even a small limb or branch can short the ground at the transformer and cause this type of symptom. Anyway, you cow island people are all set now so let’s open those camps! Thanks to everyone for all the advice I learned a lot from this electrifying experience!