E-15 Gas and what you can do about it

[Diver1111]

You have no right to complain if you don't AT LEAST send an email thru the link below. BoatUS has been effective before on many issues using it's members clout. E-15 is a nightmare.

February 4, 2015

Dear BoatU.S. Member,

For years, BoatU.S. has been battling in Washington to make sure you can buy gasoline that works in your boat engines. On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, U.S. Congressman Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) introduced The Renewable Fuel Standard Reform Act of 2015. This bill, which has both Democrat and Republican support, will effectively remove mandates for higher blend ethanol fuels (more than 10%) and allow for investment in other more compatible biofuels. We believe it is a critical step and we are writing you to ask your Congressman to become a co-sponsor and support it.

Background:

The Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) is the 2005 law that requires the blending of biofuels such as corn-ethanol into our gasoline. When written, it assumed that America’s use of gasoline would continue to rise and mandated escalating amounts of biofuels to be blended with our fuel. Since 2005, gasoline usage has actually dropped steadily and now the law forces more ethanol into less gasoline.

To keep up with this mandate, in 2010 the EPA permitted E15 (fuel containing up to 15% ethanol) into the marketplace. Even though E15 is prohibited from being used in marine engines, snowmobiles, motorcycles, small engines like lawnmowers and leaf blowers, as well as any vehicle made before 2001, this fuel can now be found at over 100 stations in 16 states at the very same pumps as E10 and ethanol-free gasoline. (In fact, there is not a single marine engine warrantied to run on any fuel with over 10% ethanol.)

Over 60% of BoatU.S. Members fill their boat’s fuel tanks at roadside gas stations where the higher blend ethanol fuels are often the cheapest fuel at the pump. This creates a huge potential for misfueling and puts boaters at risk.

Please contact your Congressman by clicking HERE:

http://www.capwiz.com/boatus/issues/...SS=Take+Action

Ask them to co-sponsor the Renewable Fuel Standard Reform Act of 2015. In the last Congress, this bill had 82 co-sponsors

CLICK HEREfor more information on E15 and the Renewable Fuel Standard:

http://www.boatus.com/gov/rfs.asp

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Done and thank you for posting this!

[Rich]

This is important. thanks!

I added this bit of text to my letter:

I have had personal experience of E10 causing significant damage and problems for many of my engines. I've had to pay for many repairs, all caused by E10.

I HATE E10! And want to do anything possible to eradicate it, as well as to stop E15 if at all possible.

[Misty Blue]

EVERY and I mean EVERY marine mechanic that I know hates E-10 and have said that E-15 will end gasoline power boating.

I now use aviation gas in all of my small engines and even in Deb's Joy our 68 Century.

It is very easy for a politician who doesn't really know a subject to vote for the "green" option or the "safety" option. Very often, and especially in this case, they will get neither.

Please ask your friends to contact their representatives on this most important issue.

Misty Blue

[upthesaukee]

Both my wife and I have sent emails... Glad I remembered to tell her so she wouldn't be surprised if she got an email on the subject.

[Donzi Minx]

As a Boat US member, I am glad they are on our side, and have sent my footprint by e-mail as well. I have tons of small engine equipment in my municipal district and even with the use of K-100 ethanol formula extensively, the E-10 absolutely fouls most Zenith carbs to the point of replacement. Geez I sure miss Sunoco 260, or the old American white gas. Does anyone exclusively run av gas 101 in their 1980 vintage boats? I was afraid it might run too lean and smoke a piston or two? Woodsy you ever use it in your 22?

[VitaBene]

Done! Thank you

[Lakeboater]

Thanks for posting this. Ethanol is a villain! Email sent.

[Rich]

For those of you with small 2 cycle engines, and not a lot of volume (mean that you use them periodically as a typical homeowner, not constantly as how a commercial user would), I can tell you something that I have been doing for some time with my 2 Cycle R/C (radio controll aircraft) air cooled engines (mostly Zenoha brand).

Instead of using Gasoline, I use Coleman fuel. I buy it at walmart in a gallon can. Then add my usual amount of oil for the proper 2 cycle mix.

This burns clean and doesn't even leave any deposits inside the fuel lines.

I've been doing this for years, even before the E10 started hitting the market.

The tests that I have done show that it doesn't affect the mixture (carb settings) and the engines don't run any hotter or cooler.

I can't say it would work for every high compression engine out there, but it has worked well for me with 2 cycle engines in the 23cc to 62cc range.

[Grandpa Redneck]

Thanks for posting the link, emails sent by both myself and my Wife, and I shared the link with all in my ATV club as well.
I too have had issues caused by E-10, the fuel lines on our boat deteriorated and caused the fuel pump to burn out in 3 years time.
We were on vacation in Pittsburg, on the 1st Conn lake when it happened, No cell service, very few other boats on the lake, it could have been a real disaster. It did really mess up our vacation, a trip back to Winnisquam to get it fixed, a second trip to pick it back up, substantial repair bill, and most of our vacation in a lakefront cabin with no boat.

[lakewinnie]

I too have sent the e-mail through BoatUS. Since my congresswoman (5th district - Connecticut) is pretty far left of center, I tried my best to explain all of the issues with Ethanol fuel in the hopes that she may be in favor of scaling back the requirements.

[Diver1111]

Hi All,
I got some questions from a Forum member about E-15 I cannot answer but I am sure someone on the Forum can:

I just bought my first boat. A 130 hp i/o.
- Are you saying marinas have less e-10 in their fuel than a gas station? I know they have an additive mixed in, which I can mix in;

- And if the ethanol is the problem, why do some suggest more octane? It still has 10 % ethanol, no? It's more of a problem on older boats?

[dave603]

Posted this exact same thing a year ago.
They just don't get it I guess, and keep entering the same bill year after year.
Sent mine again just now.
And as last year all we'll get out of it is a form letter from your Representative.

( oh, and now I get constant spam from same said REP.!)

Thanks for this years link.

[salty dog]

Sent mine in (and have for several years now. I wonder if the corn/ethanol industry can ever be broken. I believe it is a deceitful ruse to foist on the public, not only not useful but damaging. It sure helped screw up my old Wellcraft before I got rid of it; lots of money thrown down that path. Hopefully things won't be so bad for my '06 302 Mercruiser, but only time will tell....

[TheProfessor]

In the meantime just purchase gasoline at the marinas that offer non ethanol.

I go right to the airport for all of my small engines. Pure gasoline.

Yes, a short term solution and yes it is quite pricey. But does save long term on repairs.

Also for small engines repair shops and big box stores now sell non ethanol gas in small cans.

As far as this type of legislation - the corn lobby is pretty strong on both sides of the aisle.

"Corn and soybean levels are extremely tight, and their prices have skyrocketed since June. However, these two grains are mostly used as livestock feeds. Corn is also diverted to produce ethanol because of our government mandate.

Earlier this month, the United Nations urged the U.S. to ease its ethanol mandate. The origin of this policy goes back to 2005 when Congress set requirements of corn to be used for automotive fuel. In 2007, the Energy Independence and Security Act greatly increased those requirements to improve air quality and become more energy secure. Behind the scenes, however, corn and other agricultural lobbyists were promoting the mandate to create a larger market for corn. Using current numbers, this year's ethanol mandate would theoretically require 44% of this year's corn crop, a third of which is recycled back as distillers grains for livestock feed."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/20/opinio...-corn-ethanol/

[LSBA Joker]

Done. I've already had 2 older carbs clogged before I started mixing in one of the additives to fight the effects of e-10.

[salty dog]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

In the meantime just purchase gasoline at the marinas that offer non ethanol.

I go right to the airport for all of my small engines. Pure gasoline.

Yes, a short term solution and yes it is quite pricey. But does save long term on repairs.

Also for small engines repair shops and big box stores now sell non ethanol gas in small cans.

As far as this type of legislation - the corn lobby is pretty strong on both sides of the aisle.

"Corn and soybean levels are extremely tight, and their prices have skyrocketed since June. However, these two grains are mostly used as livestock feeds. Corn is also diverted to produce ethanol because of our government mandate.

Earlier this month, the United Nations urged the U.S. to ease its ethanol mandate. The origin of this policy goes back to 2005 when Congress set requirements of corn to be used for automotive fuel. In 2007, the Energy Independence and Security Act greatly increased those requirements to improve air quality and become more energy secure. Behind the scenes, however, corn and other agricultural lobbyists were promoting the mandate to create a larger market for corn. Using current numbers, this year's ethanol mandate would theoretically require 44% of this year's corn crop, a third of which is recycled back as distillers grains for livestock feed."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/20/opinio...-corn-ethanol/

"In the meantime just purchase gasoline at the marinas that offer non ethanol."

I'm not aware of any marinas on Winni that have non-ethanol gas. Does anyone know for sure?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Diver1111

Hi All,
I got some questions from a Forum member about E-15 I cannot answer but I am sure someone on the Forum can:

I just bought my first boat. A 130 hp i/o.
- Are you saying marinas have less e-10 in their fuel than a gas station? I know they have an additive mixed in, which I can mix in;

No, e-10 is e-10, which means up to 10 % ethanol. You can't be sure of how much is included. Any is not good! having an additive can help to fight some of the side effects, but not all. Any is bad. Luckily newer boats are less prone to issues than older boats, but any ethanol is bad compared to pure gas.

- And if the ethanol is the problem, why do some suggest more octane? It still has 10 % ethanol, no? It's more of a problem on older boats?

Older boats tend to have more problems than newer boats, but even this can be a problem for newer boats. I suggest the person to do more google searches as there are many thoughts and myths and problems with ethanol in gasoline, many can be magnified in a marine environment.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

I believe the only place to buy ethanol free gas in NH other than airports, is on Rt. 25 in Freedom, just before entering Maine.

[Rich]

There is this online list of ethanol free gasoline stations in NH:

http://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NH

Note that you have to be careful and verify the list before you buy gas if no E-10 is important to you.

Last year they listed a marina on the lake, which certainly did have E-10 in their tanks. I think anyone can make an entry on this list, so it's easy for errors to creep in.

Also, check the details... some pure-gas is not Lead Free and could possibly damage your engine if it's designed for only Lead Free gas.

Of course, this list doesn't help those with boats that are not trailerable.

Why can't NH pass a law that says there has to be an source of pure gas availalbe somewhere in all markets. This way people can make a choice, "Life Fee or Die!"

[Pine Island Guy]

I'm sure the corn growers have a powerful lobby... but hopefully this makes it through and is signed!

enjoy the snow everyone! -PIG

FOUR U.S. LAWMAKERS BEGIN SECOND EFFORT AT BIOFUELS REFORM BILL

02/04/15

A group of Republican and Democratic lawmakers will begin their second attempt on Wednesday to introduce a bill that would reform the Renewable Fuel Standards (RFS) program in the United States, targeting an end to ethanol fuel-blending mandates.

The lawmakers said the bill would eliminate requirements for corn-based ethanol blending and cap blending levels for other biofuels at actual production levels. They hope the latest move will garner support now after months of disputes over how much biofuel should be blended with oil-based fuels and growing concerns that the program drives up agriculture and food costs.

The RFS Reform Act is the latest bid in recent years by Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), Steve Womack (R-AR), Peter Welch (D-VT) and Jim Costa (D-CA) to change a government program that Welch described as a "well-intended flop" in an interview this week.

"We're going full bore again with this Congress," said Goodlatte, who also plans to introduce an even tougher bill on Wednesday that would repeal the RFS altogether.

The reform would effectively do away with a mandate that corn-based ethanol be blended in gasoline and repeal the waiver that raised the cap on ethanol content at 15 percent from 10 percent after Congress expanded the RFS policy in 2007.

Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) urged his colleagues to remove a corn-based ethanol mandate from the RFS, saying the mandate hurts a diverse range of people and businesses including farmers, small engine users and restaurants.
Dairy farming is a major industry in Vermont. Welch said the ethanol mandate, which started in 2005, has created a new demand for corn and other grains and raised feed costs for livestock farmers. “They were telling me about how much their grain costs were going up and it’s killing them,” Welch said Thursday at a policy forum on the RFS hosted by The Hill. “And they were attributing that to ethanol.”

Welch started to oppose the RFS shortly after he began serving Vermont’s at-large congressional district in 2007. He told a story about how ethanol once wrecked a chainsaw he owned. “I left it with the gas in, and I couldn’t get it started, and I was pretty blue about it,” Welch said. “I brought it into my small engine guy, Lloyd, and he said ‘Peter, you left the ethanol in there, and it wrecks it.’ ”

The increased food costs that hurt livestock farmers also hurt restaurants, Welch said. It affects poultry, beef, pork, other agricultural products. And at a local level ... “it costs $18,000 a year for each restaurant because of the RFS,” said Rob Green, executive director of the group. “And if you sell more beef, it can be as high as $35,000 a year per restaurant.”

Furthermore, the energy it takes to produce ethanol is close to the amount of energy in the fuel. “Many studies suggest that it’s in the negative or barely positive,” Welch said. “But it’s close. It’s not this huge benefit in renewable fuel that had originally been advertised.”