Speed Limit Passes House

[Bear Islander]

The speed limit just passed the house.

The vote was 236 Yeas to 111 Nays.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The speed limit was just passed the house.

hopefully the Senate has common sense, or I wonder if you could rule it unconstitutional?

funny I received numerous responses from state reps that vowed to vote no!

[Hottrucks]

what was the vote...I was Iced in up here and couldn't get there

where does it go next the senate..?? When???


Thanx

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The speed limit was just passed the house.

This should not be a surprise to anyone. Speed limits have passed the House before. The Senate is the battleground.

In the past, the Senate has demonstrated with their votes that they are more realistic with their views, and less swayed by the embellishments of those without facts supporting their goals, than their brothers and sisters in the House.

Hopefully, the more experienced arm of government will do what they have done in the past.

R2B

[Evenstar]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

Jan 30, 12:36 PM EST - N.H. House approves boat speed limit on largest lake

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) -- The House has approved a two-year trial boat speed limit on New Hampshire's Lake Winnipesaukee.


The House voted 236-111 Wednesday on a bill that set a 45 mph daytime limit and 25 mph nighttime limit on the state's largest lake.

Supporters argued the two-year trial would be plenty of time to test speed limits. They say speeders are spoiling the lake for other users.

Opponents argued the limits are unnecessary. As proof, they pointed to a Marine Patrol study last summer that found few boats exceeded the proposed limit. Opponents said it made no sense to pass a law in hopes a small, inconsiderate group would change its habits. They also argue the speed limits would be unenforceable since boats aren't required to have speedometers.

The House passed a bill two years ago to impose limits on all lakes and rivers, but the Senate killed it.

The House past the amended version of the bill. In 2006 HB162 passed the House 193-139, so support for a speed limit law has grown since then. Plus this is a very different Senate than the one we had in 2006. I known several Senators who will be voting for HB847.

[ApS]

Well....Just Dang!

I'd hoped to put Steve Fossett's old record-breaking multihull "Cheyenne" on Winnipesaukee. This cuts that possibility in half.

Cheyenne is selling for a tiny fraction of its original price, it's 125' long, and has already broken 55-MPH.

Smokelessly racing across the Broads at 55-MPH—and using no fossil fuels—has been a dream of mine. (OK, there's a little "smoke" off the hulls at high speed).

Just think, an ocean-racer 60-feet wide, and being the privileged boat over everybody else on the lake!

Just dang...



('Thought I'd do my speed runs nearest the NASWA crowd and go jumping their wakes—at night .)

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Well....Just Dang!

I'd hoped to put Steve Fossett's old record-breaking multihull "Cheyenne" on Winnipesaukee. This cuts that possibility in half.

Cheyenne is selling for a tiny fraction of its original price, it's 125' long, and has already broken 55-MPH.

Smokelessly racing across the Broads at 55-MPH—and using no fossil fuels—has been a dream of mine. (OK, there's a little "smoke" off the hulls at high speed).

Just think, an ocean-racer 60-feet wide, and being the privileged boat over everybody else on the lake!

Just dang...

Cheer up...

Originally Posted by online Union Leader

The bill originally called for limits on all lakes of 10 acres or more. The House Transportation Committee amended the bill to cover only Lake Winnipesaukee, the state’s largest lake. It made the limit a two-year experiment, calling for them to expire in 2011.

Hope you are able to enjoy 45 mph and resist 55 mph until the 2011 season.

Why?

Originally Posted by online Union Leader

The bill says that conviction of breaking the speed limits will appear on a violator’s driving record, kept by the Division of Motor Vehicles.

http://gamma.unionleader.com/article...7-39b77cc5058f

[fatlazyless]

I am almost at a loss for words, which is unusual for me, so let me just say that

...sometimes, you win, and

...sometimes, YOU LOSE!

....

On March 16, 2006, the New Hampshire State Senate voted 16-9 on HB162 with what was a Republican majority at that time.

Since the November 2006 election, the majority color of the 24 members of the problem solving and deep thinking New Hampshire State Senate has changed from a Republican red to a BRITE & HOPEFULL SHADE of DEMOCRATIC BLUE, which is just like the blue water out on Lake Winnipesaukee, brite & hopefull.

Therefore, knowing what we know about our hardworking and volunteer New Hampshire State Senate, we can all be very brite & hopefull.

...capiche!

Having said all that, if you study the votes, HB847 is not a partisan issue with Dems and Repubs all divided on it. There have been D's & R's on both sides of the vote, both in the House & previously in the Senate.

Each and every State Representative studies the issue carefully and then makes his/her own decision. HB 847 has been a one representative by one representative. non-partisan issue with each individual doing their own due diligence, and asking themselves: What is best for boating safety in New Hampshire?

'''''''''''''''''''''''''
All across the State of New Hampshire, youth summer camps, canoers, sailers, kayakers, rowers, fishermen/woman and motor boaters and jetskiers too are clapping and cheering. If you go stick your head out the window and listen quietly, you'll be able to hear them......clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap....for the New Hampshire House of Representatives, 236-111.



..........

[SBC]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Each and every State Representative studies the issue carefully and then makes his/her own decision. HB 847 has been a one representative by one representative. non-partisan issue with each individual doing their own due diligence, and asking themselves: What is best for boating safety in New Hampshire?

What happened to government of, by and for the people?

I hope they (the Senate) maintain the common sense exhibited previously and don't let the personal agenda of any new and bright blue members muck up the props of progress.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by SBC

What happened to government of, by and for the people?

It is alive and well and living in NH. Perhaps you are not aware but all the independent polls show that the vast majority of NH voters favor boating speed limits.

I will now stand aside so that my esteemed colleges on the other side of the aisle can explain why all those polls are bologna.

[andyporter]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

It is alive and well and living in NH. Perhaps you are not aware but all the independent polls show that the vast majority of NH voters favor boating speed limits.

I will now stand aside so that my esteemed colleges on the other side of the aisle can explain why all those polls are bologna.

You aready got a no wake zone in front of your place. Right?
By the way I enjoy your webcam! Anymore Ice IN Ice out vids in the future?
That was cool.

[KonaChick]

If this inane bill passes and someone gets a ticket is it only NH drivers that will have this on their driving records or ALL drivers from all states?? It seems if it's only NH drivers there's a large group of individuals out there from different states that this bill will NOT affect. It makes no sense!!

[SIKSUKR]

Here's WMUR's story.

http://www.wmur.com/news/15176535/detail.html

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Dick

The author of the HB 847 amendment, and who also wrote the House Transporation committee (7-6) blurb in the House regular claendar, was Rep. Howard Cunningham. This is what he wrote: "This amendment sets a 45/25 (day/night) speed limit and is designed to sunset on January 1, 2011. This interval will provide an adequate period of time to make pre/post speed limit comparisons."

Okay, we know what the baseline objective data is, i.e., ZERO boat-to-boat collisions involving a speed over 30 mph for the past 2 years (that's for all 970 lakes/ponds and thousands of miles of rivers, not just Winni). Now, IF this bill were to pass, what improvement over this could we logically expect to see over the next 2 years?

We haven't had a boat-to-boat fatality that involved a speed over 30 mph in over 5 years. Exactly what "comparison" should we expect to see over a 2 year "interval" in this regard?

If we were to end up with significantly more boat-to-boat collisions during the 2 year "comparison" period, would that mean that imposing the speed restriction did not improve our boating safety record, but rather had the opposite effect?

Maybe if a few of us go out there and carefully crash our boats into each others, we can show the data that proves that a speed limit causes crashes.

Originally Posted by KonaChick

If this inane bill passes and someone gets a ticket is it only NH drivers that will have this on their driving records or ALL drivers from all states?? It seems if it's only NH drivers there's a large group of individuals out there from different states that this bill will NOT affect. It makes no sense!!

There is no room here for things that make sense. You should know that by now.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

If this inane bill passes and someone gets a ticket is it only NH drivers that will have this on their driving records or ALL drivers from all states?? It seems if it's only NH drivers there's a large group of individuals out there from different states that this bill will NOT affect. It makes no sense!!

Hey KonaChick...that's a good question...and the answer is that it is up to each individual state's dept of motor vehicles, or whoever decides for your state. Probably, the NH DMV forwards the info and the other states have their own protocol.

As someone on this forum likes to say; "You can't fix stupid!"....whatever.....hey...it's a big lake out there....wave to me...and I'll be happy to be waving back to you!
.......

Hey all, today's www.unionleader.com has a front page, speed limits article, and below the story they are looking for readers to express their opinions. I'd make a comment there except it's always an 'error in transmission' or something....wonder if the Union Leader has put a block on me?

[SIKSUKR]

Does anyone know how to find out who voted for or against hs847?I was on the house website and it shows the result only.It also says that an amendment was added but I couldn't see what it was.

After reading the Union Leader's story I see that the amendment was to make this bill effective for Winni only.Also, in the article it states only 10 of the 239 Dems voted against.Pretty much what I figured.We have lost our live free or die status in NH to the liberals moving here from the "more government is better" states.Very sad.Much more doom and gloom will be arriving soon.Carefull what you vote for folks cuz it's going to bite you in the butt.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Does anyone know how to find out who voted for or against hs847?I was on the house website and it shows the result only.It also says that an amendment was added but I couldn't see what it was.

Here's the link: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill...=&q=1&lsr=1098

After reading the Union Leader's story I see that the amendment was to make this bill effective for Winni only.

The bill was also amended with a "sunset clause", which means that it has to be reviewed (and voted on again) in 2011.

[/quote] the article it states only 10 Dems voted against.Pretty much what I figured.We have lost our live free or die status in NH to the liberals moving here from the "more government is better" states.Very sad.Much more doom and gloom will be arriving soon.Carefull what you vote for folks cuz it's going to bite you in the butt.[/quote]
I'm a native and I know plenty of other natives who are for this bil. The problem is that some people's freedom has a negative impact on the freedom of others. You can't just let everyone do whatever they want to - that would be anarchy. Laws are to (suposed to be) made for the good of the many - not for the special interest groups.

If so few boats are traveling over 45 mph (as many here claim), than why are so many here so upset with this bill? According to your own claims, only a very few people will have to slow down. This bill shouldn't have any impact on most of you.

[winnilaker]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Does anyone know how to find out who voted for or against hs847?I was on the house website and it shows the result only.It also says that an amendment was added but I couldn't see what it was.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ie/r...callsearch.asp

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Does anyone know how to find out who voted for or against hs847?I was on the house website and it shows the result only.

Hope this helps...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

"...If this inane bill passes and someone gets a ticket is it only NH drivers that will have this on their driving records or ALL drivers from all states...??"

It's a long quote but it took an hour to find—so here it is from this insurance site: Most of the 50 states have reciprocal agreements with respect to traffic violations.

"...though there are 5 states that are not currently members of the agreement they all still seem to share and receive in information from some if not all other states.

"The state of Georgia has other agreements with states to exchange information regarding traffic tickets their licensed drivers acquire out of state. The DDS states that the Department is authorized to suspend your license if its records or other evidence shows that you have accumulated 15 points within 24 months under the point system, including violations committed out of state.

"According to the Massachusetts driver's manual, MA has arranged to share driving record and criminal violation information with other states. So even though Massachusetts is not a part of the DLC, they have their own agreements with other states to exchange violation information.

"The RMV driver's manual goes on to say that certain traffic offenses committed by a MA licensed driver in other states will be placed on their MA driving record and treated by the RMV as if the offense had occurred in Massachusetts.

"The Michigan Secretary of State (SOS) site notes that out of state offenses are likely to eventually appear on your Michigan driving record. Thus even though Michigan is not a member of the DLC it appears their DMV will still share and exchange information with other state's courts and Department of Motor Vehicles regarding traffic violations.

"Tennessee dropped out of the DLC in 1997 so it is not currently a member of the agreement but the state still reports tickets back to your home state and other states can still report moving violations to the TN Department of Safety.

"Even though Wisconsin is not a member of the DLC their Department of Transportation will still share and exchange information with other state's courts and Department of Motor Vehicles regarding traffic violations. Wisconsin records out of state traffic convictions on a WI driver's record but does not assess points.

"To find out if your state has reciprocal agreements with any of these States check with your Department of Motor Vehicles. Or if you live in one of these 5 states you can check with the DMV or like agency to find out more about their agreements with other States."

Originally Posted by KonaChick

It seems if it's only NH drivers there's a large group of individuals out there from different states that this bill will NOT affect. It makes no sense!!"..."

Now "it" appears to make sense: the agreement refers to moving violations only.

If you get a violation, I'm guessing you are innocent should you plead neither guilty nor innocent. ("The dog ate my ticket, your Honor." "The license tag number is off, yer Onner" etc.)

By paying the citation, you would be tacitly admitting guilt, so the points would be "reciprocated" to your state of residence. In not paying the citation, you could have a much bigger problem should you get another moving citation in New Hampshire again.

Generally speaking, if you are not found innocent in NH and if you don't pay, your best option is not to return to New Hampshire for about five to eight years; after which, the violation appears to get forgotten about. (Depending on just what you did, or allegedly did.)

Or one can captain one's boat in a sane manner, and pray that problem boaters with problem boats don't take that first drink of alcoholic beverage for the next two seasons.

Further in my Internet readings this morning, I'm finding that states are generally very poor record-keepers and that the legal system is truly messed up in matters of interstate moving violations and "insurance points".

It's the guys with the lawbooks that purportedly have the correct answers—and their hand in your pocketbook.

[SIKSUKR]

Thanks for that link Winnilaker.I will be voicing my disapproval to my respective reps.This process is not over people.Contact your state senator and let them know how you feel about this bill.I was going to say we certainly have a better shot at ending this bill given the smaller majority of Dems in the senate but it appears both branches are 60 to 40 percent Dems ro GOP.Let your opinion be known!

[fatlazyless]

Union Leader, Manchester, NH (AP New Hampshire)

"Gov. John Lynch say's he's not sure he'd sign a plan to set overall boat speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee.

The House yesterday approved setting speed limits for a two-year trial period. The bill that now goes to the Senate would set limits of 45 miles per hour during the day and 25 miles per hour at night.

Speaking this morning (on WGIR) Lynch said he doesn't think overall boat speeds are the most egregious problem on Winnipesaukee. He says there are other problems such as boats going too fast while too close to other boats or to shore.

He said he would consider the proposed limit if it gets to his desk."
......
Angela Anderson/ WGIR-AM
Union Leader


......

[SIKSUKR]

Wow,that sounds like a total flip flop from Lynch's previous position.It's nice to see some comman sense from my Governor when he says what the rest of us speed limit opponents have been saying right along.

Speaking this morning (on WGIR) Lynch said he doesn't think overall boat speeds are the most egregious problem on Winnipesaukee. He says there are other problems such as boats going too fast while too close to other boats or to shore
There is hope.

[bbarrell]

Well, at least someone in this state has some sense! Thank you Gov. Lynch! I also saw an interview where he said he didn't think he'd pass any unfunded bill in 2008 that may cost additional money to regulate.
IF it gets passed, I'm glad it was amended to be a two yr trial and only Lake Winni. I think they will truly then learn this bill cost them more than any safety rewards they reaped from it and the data will prove it and this issue will be done.

I also think IF it passes the senate, it's gonna get amended again...likely to up the mph limits. But we'll see soon enough I guess!

I think they may have shot themselves in the foot from a lakes region economy standpoint....as I've always maintained, the people who really want their freedoms will take their money elsewhere...and it WILL have an impact on your tourism and taxes. I've just sold my lakefront property and boat. Perhaps for some supporters that's exactly what you wanted....but I'll be spending that money elsewhere now. Even though I'm against speed limits and will continue to join that fight.... I actually never drove my boat over 65mph and consider myself a very safe driver.

[Seeker]

Boating laws are like gun laws. If we would just enforce the ones we now have most problems would be eliminated.
What would make anyone think that someone who staggers onto their boat at 8 or 9 pm with a snootful is going to follow the 25mph night speed limit?

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by bbarrell

I also think IF it passes the senate, it's gonna get amended again...likely to up the mph limits. But we'll see soon enough I guess!

Or the Senate could remove the amendments that the House Transportation Committee added.

[/quote]I think they may have shot themselves in the foot from a lakes region economy standpoint....as I've always maintained, the people who really want their freedoms will take their money elsewhere...and it WILL have an impact on your tourism and taxes.[/quote]
It all depends on what you consider to be important.

Group A feels that being able to travel at unlimited speeds on the lake is important.

Group B feels that being able to feel safe out on the lake is more important.

If members of Group A actually leave, members of Group B will likely just replace them.

So how will this hurt our economy?

Especially when the opponents to the speed limit have been claiming that only a very tiny portion of the boats on Winni travel over 45mph. According to what has been posted on this forum, only 1% will have to slow down to comply with the speed limit. Are you now suggesting that a much greater percentage of boats have in fact been traveling at over 45 mph?

[SIKSUKR]

Here' Gov Lynch's statement on WMUR's website.



Lynch Says Boat Speeds Not Worst Problem On Lake
Governor Not Sure If He Would Sign Lake Speed Limit Bill

POSTED: 11:01 am EST January 31, 2008


MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Gov. John Lynch said Thursday that he's not sure he'd sign a plan to set overall boat speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee

The House on Wednesday approved setting speed limits for a two-year trial period. The bill that now goes to the Senate would set limits of 45 mph during the day and 25 mph at night.

Speaking on WGIR, Lynch said he doesn't think overall boat speeds are the most egregious problem on Lake Winnipesaukee. He said there are other problems, such as boats going too fast while too close to other boats or to shore.

He said he would consider the proposed limit if it gets to his desk.

[bilproject]

Last time I checked it was not required to have an automobile licence to drive a boat, only a safe boating card. No reason for me to show a drivers licence to MP. My state will only apply motor car or truck violations from out of state to our license in NJ

[hazelnut]

That is a pretty or should I say VERY basic comment to a potentially real problem.

Your Group B are kayakers, conoers, campers, and sailboaters correct?

How many millions of dollars in lost GAS TAX revenue will be lost??? Last time I checked there weren't a heck of a lot of kayaks and canoes pulled up to the docks patronizing the restaurants and shops at anywhere.

I know this may seem like a bit of a generalization but seeing that you did it to arrive at your point I'll do the same:
Large, fast boat owners usually = Large bank accounts which usually = free cash to spend on gas, food, misc. items from boutiques and shops.

[fatlazyless]

Hey Hazelnut, what the state loses in its' gas tax money, it would easily exceed with increased business profits tax from big big sales of granola....it's the granola factor....if every kayaker who paddles on the north side of the lake stops at Heath's and gets some granola, the state's treasury will be very healthy & fat free!

Besides, the gasoline used by motorboats can be redeemed from the state with their non-motor vehicle, gas tax refund program, which every gasoline seller on the lake promotes.
.........

Just checked the www.unionleader.com and their speed limits article has a big long list of 25 reader comments. Is that a record?

People should be so passionate about education funding, or nursing home care by the counties, or health insurance, or something.

Performance motorboating: it's not a hobby, ........................it's a religion..............The Need for Speed!

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Your Group B are kayakers, conoers, campers, and sailboaters correct?

How many millions of dollars in lost GAS TAX revenue will be lost??? Last time I checked there weren't a heck of a lot of kayaks and canoes pulled up to the docks patronizing the restaurants and shops at anywhere.

I know this may seem like a bit of a generalization but seeing that you did it to arrive at your point I'll do the same:
Large, fast boat owners usually = Large bank accounts which usually = free cash to spend on gas, food, misc. items from boutiques and shops.

No, you’re not correct at all. Group B includes any boaters who feel “that being able to feel safe out on the lake is more important.” That is how I described them in my post and that is exactly what I meant. Yes, it includes many sailors and paddlers, but it is not exclusive to just these individuals. The anti speed limit group tries to make it out that only non-motorized boat owners want a lake speed limit. That is just not true. There are also many powerboat owners who are for a speed limit.

My two groups were based entirely on the two sides that I saw at the Transportation Committee hearing last March. This wasn’t much of a generalization at all, because 90% of the people who testified in opposition to the bill fit Group A, and 90% of the people who testified in favor of the bill fit Group B.

What I do have a huge issue with is the way some people with “large bank accounts” seem to think they can get whatever they want – because of their financial status. Personally I don’t care how much money anyone has – that doesn’t mean that they are any better then anyone else, or that they deserve some kind of special privileges. I was very proud that over 2/3’s of my Representatives did what was right, instead of caving in to the demands of those with large bank accounts.

Apparently you have never attended the New England Paddling Exposition, at UNH each April. Because if you had, you would have noticed that we are not exactly an impoverished group. And, as a colligate sailor, I can state for a fact that there are some very wealthy people who own sailboats. Both sailors and paddlers probably spend more on gear (like foul weather clothing) than powerboat owners. And we are involved in very physical activity, so we do need to eat – and most of us don’t just live on granola bars (or vacation only in tents).

One more thing: How can the anti-speed limit group claim that the MP’s report on the speed of boats on Winni was so accurate, and then state that such a large number of powerboat owners are “going to take their business elsewhere? If only a very small percentage of boats were traveling over 45mph, then hardly any powerboat owners who will be affected by the speed limit law.

So, either the report is accurate, in which case very few boaters will be affected. Or it is very inaccurate (as I tried to point out) – which means that a much larger percentage of powerboats on Winni travel at speeds above 45mph.

Which one is it? You can’t have it both ways.

[KonaChick]

Originally Posted by bilproject

Last time I checked it was not required to have an automobile licence to drive a boat, only a safe boating card. No reason for me to show a drivers licence to MP. My state will only apply motor car or truck violations from out of state to our license in NJ

And herein lies a real problem. Joe Schmoe from NJ with a big fast boat and a deep wallet could care less how many boating speeding tickets he gets. He'll gladly hand over a big fat check for all his speeding infractions and just conisder it a nice donation to the MP. This law will NOT take him off the lake or change his boating habits one bit. I know this because in our cove alone there's 3 Joe Schmoe's and from what I can see many more like him who boat on Lake Winni.

[bilproject]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

And herein lies a real problem. Joe Schmoe from NJ with a big fast boat and a deep wallet could care less how many boating speeding tickets he gets. He'll gladly hand over a big fat check for all his speeding infractions and just conisder it a nice donation to the MP. This law will NOT take him off the lake or change his boating habits one bit. I know this because in our cove alone there's 3 Joe Schmoe's and from what I can see many more like him who boat on Lake Winni.

My post was to show the effect on out of state driving records vs NH. I do not own a boat that can exceed the limit. Well maybe a jet ski at full throttle.

[pm203]

Originally Posted by KonaChick

And herein lies a real problem. Joe Schmoe from NJ with a big fast boat and a deep wallet could care less how many boating speeding tickets he gets. He'll gladly hand over a big fat check for all his speeding infractions and just conisder it a nice donation to the MP. This law will NOT take him off the lake or change his boating habits one bit. I know this because in our cove alone there's 3 Joe Schmoe's and from what I can see many more like him who boat on Lake Winni.

The real problem are people who think there is a problem.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

All across the State of New Hampshire, youth summer camps, canoers, sailers, kayakers, rowers, fishermen/woman and motor boaters and jetskiers too are clapping and cheering. If you go stick your head out the window and listen quietly, you'll be able to hear them......clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap....for the New Hampshire House of Representatives, 236-111.
..........

FLL,

I just stuck my head out the window and all I could hear was the wind!

R2B

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Still along way to go, Although gloat if you will. You won a battle, but not the war my friends. The pro speed limit side, screamed victory when HB 162 was passed in the House. Where did that go? Same Place 847 will, out with the rest of the trash. I hope this opens the publics eyes to the reform needed in Concord. These Reps are out of control! Time for some restructuring. Too many reps, and too many old timers! Need some young fresh faces that are in touch with real life, Not just the retired and wealthy that can afford to work for $100/yr. Put some real everday people in the seats and see what happens!

[Dick]

The author of the HB 847 amendment, and who also wrote the House Transporation committee (7-6) blurb in the House regular claendar, was Rep. Howard Cunningham. This is what he wrote: "This amendment sets a 45/25 (day/night) speed limit and is designed to sunset on January 1, 2011. This interval will provide an adequate period of time to make pre/post speed limit comparisons."

Okay, we know what the baseline objective data is, i.e., ZERO boat-to-boat collisions involving a speed over 30 mph for the past 2 years (that's for all 970 lakes/ponds and thousands of miles of rivers, not just Winni). Now, IF this bill were to pass, what improvement over this could we logically expect to see over the next 2 years?

We haven't had a boat-to-boat fatality that involved a speed over 30 mph in over 5 years. Exactly what "comparison" should we expect to see over a 2 year "interval" in this regard?

If we were to end up with significantly more boat-to-boat collisions during the 2 year "comparison" period, would that mean that imposing the speed restriction did not improve our boating safety record, but rather had the opposite effect?

[andyporter]

Do we need a speed limit in the broads? Maybe coming in and out Weirs/Meredith. But the broads.

[COWISLAND NH]

'''''''''''''''''''''''''
All across the State of New Hampshire, youth summer camps, canoers, sailers, kayakers, rowers, fishermen/woman and motor boaters and jetskiers too are clapping and cheering. If you go stick your head out the window and listen quietly, you'll be able to hear them......clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap-clap....for the New Hampshire House of Representatives, 236-111.
..........

Not us!! I hope to get everyone fired up about this....call call call the reps!!!!! This should NOT be passed!!!!! Inexperienced & scared captians make this lake unsafe!!!! The captians that pour time, money and love into their power boats that can go faster are not to blame. It's a shame that just because the campers, paddlers, and scared lake user don't like us we can't enjoy what we like.

[Cristen]

This really bums me out. I can see enforcing a speed limit on small lake, but Winnipesuakee......come on. They don't call it the BIG LAKE for nothing!

I'm 30 years old, and have grown up on this lake. I remember the days of speeding around with my friends in some pretty fast boats, but we did it in places that were safe like the broads, not in heavily congested areas. There is absolutely no reason why you can open up your toys out on the big lake. You just need to be smart and safe about it.

I have a jet ski that I race around on like a crazy girl, and that isn't going to stop. A speed limit of 45......LAME!!!!!!

PS - Hey Marine Patrol.....here's a tip. Maybe you should go after the reckless boaters and some of the people that rent boats for that matter. I've seen lots of renters drop a boat in the lake without a clue as to where they are going, or how to drive a boat! SCARY!

[fatlazyless]

Hey Rattlesnake Guy, while that's true for the NH Lottery, it was a national Powerball where Sen Gregg hit five out of six numbers on a five dollar, quik-pik at a Washington DC gas station on Oct 25, 2005, winning $850,000. Yes, he paid federal income taxes, and no there was no NH tax on it.

It's off-topic so how 'bout we just drop it.
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Laconia Daily Sun, Thursday, Jan 31, 08
By Chris Dornin
Golden Dome News

Big House majority backs Big Lake speed limits

CONCORD - The House voted 236-111 Wednesday to restrict boat speeds to 45 mph in the daytime on Lake Winnipesaukee and 25 mph at night. After a two-year experiment, those limits would sunset unless lawmakers renewed them. The bill would also list any boating violations on a driver's auto record.

Democrats favored the bill, which now goes to the Senate for action, 194-10. Several sponsors were Republicans, but their party generally opposed the bill 99-42.

The Belknap County delegation backed the bill by 10-6.

In its earliest draft, House Bill 847 capped lake speeds across the state permanently. Rep. Jim Pilliod (R-Belmont) the prime sponsor of HB 847, called the final version a major compromise. He said the idea for the bill came from a Gilford marina owner hurt by too many speeders. He was losing rental and boat-slip customers in his family-oriented market.

Several lawmakers noted the unprecedented lobbying campaigns from both sides.

Rep. Robert Theberge (D-Berlin) said most of the opponents he heard from live out of state and own summer cottages on the lake. He listened more to the residents and voted for the bill.

Rep. John Tholl (R-Whitefield) got bombarded too, even though most of the lakes up north are too small to worry about.

"The only one with any speed issues is the Moore Resevoir on the Connecticut River," Tholl said. "On Jericho Lake (in Berlin) you'd run out of water by the time you got up to planning speed."

Pilliod said he fielded a wave of nearly identical emails from opponents across the country. Then he got flooded with earnest and individualized messages from the in-state supporters. Then came a late salvo of "better thought out" e-mails from the other side.

"The opponents must have learned a lesson," Pilliod joked in his floor speech. "But I've been power boating since 1935, and I've never gone faster than 25. High speeds are fun for some at the expense of others' feelings of safety."

Rep. Pennington Brown (R-Epping) said a friend of his owns frontage on Squam Lake.

"A power boat cut an aluminum canoe in half," he said. "The bow and stern paddlers were startled."

Rep. Dan Itse (R-Fremont) told lawmakers he got an e-mail from a Marine Patrol officer saying the agency had received no reports of boating accidents involving speeds greater than 30 mph. Rep. Jim Ryan (D-Franklin) chairs the House Transportation Committee and said lawmakers received thousands of copies of that message.

"What it said isn't the whole truth," Pilliod noted. "I recall a family that bought some personal watercraft and played tag. The mother ran over her daughter and killed her."

Lieutenant Tim Dunleavy keeps accident data for Marine Patrol at its headquarters in Gilford. In an interview after the House session, he said there were 54 reported accidents across the state in 2007, and three were caused by speeding. That included one each on Lakes Ossipee, Tucker and Winnipesaukee. Nine of the accidents took place between 8 p.m. and 8 a.m. Speed was a factor in only one of the 80 accidents in 2006, and it caused four of the 60 accidents in 2005.

"We have many accidents at speeds greater than 30 or 40 mph," Dunleavy said. "But it's usually a skier who falls and gets hurt or a tuber flipping over. Or a boat hits a wake and the passenger chips a tooth. It's speed-related if a boat doing 60 does a barrel roll and ejects people."

Rep. Bill Denley (R-Wakefield) offered an amendment to cap speeds only at night, when he said it's crazy to drive faster than 25 mph. Running lights look too much like shore lights.

"But a daytime speed limit is feel-good legislation," Denley said. "It won't make anyone safer. The lake is a busy, busy place, but high speeds are perfectly safe in a number of areas. Between Six Mile Island and Wolfeboro Neck on an un-busy day is one of them."

His motion died 260-83.

Rep Sherm Packard (R-Londonderry) argued against the bill as the former chairman of House Transportation. He said Marine Patrol officers clocked 3,852 boats on Winnipesaukee last summer, and only 91 were going faster than 41 mph.

"If we had that kind of compliance on the highways we could get rid of the State Police and save a lot of money," he said. "Let's not pass legislation to solve a problem that does not exist."

Pilliod said nobody expected large numbers of speeders with the cops watching.

"Even with the radar guns you had boats going 60 out there." he said.

Rep. Fran Wendelboe (R-New Hampton) represents Center Harbor and said the real problem is violations of the 150-foot rule and the boat-user restrictions near shore.

"We just need better boater training and a little more money for Marine Patrol in the busy season, especially on weekends," she said.

Rep. Alida Millham (R-Gilford) cosponsored the bill and said its time has come.

"I have a place on Mark Island," she said. "There's a gut between Mark and Timber islands. People speed through there all the time."

Rep. John Thomas (R-Belmont) suggested scrapping most of the bill and just recording a speeder's violation on their auto license.

Rep. Mike Whalley (R-Alton) warned the bill would tax Marine Patrol officers, who have authority to crack down on speeding now. Boats have to operate safely and leave no wake within 150 feet of shore and other vessels.

"The idea you can't swim or row on the lake is far fetched," he added. "I have a rowing scull and I use it on the lake every day."

Senators now are bracing for a barrage of orchestrated messages on one of the most divisive issues of the 2008 session. Sen. Joe Kenney (R-Wakefield) is co-sponsoring HB 847 and said a similar bill died in the upper chamber two years ago. He's hopefull this time. He toured the Meredith section of the lake two years ago wih a group of lawmakers. What they saw convinced them of the need for a speed cap.

"We got up to 45 mph and the wave action was enough to knock you out of the boat," he said. "At that speed you close on other boats fast. The state is going to have 300,000 more people by 2020. We have to learn to share our natural resources."
.....
Laconia Daily Sun
Chris Dornin, Golden Dome News



....
This article should make the go-fasts jump for joy! So, how do you like them apples?

Hey, I think maybe this writer is a little biased in favor of the go-fasts. Shouldn't he be portraying the Democratic party as being totally objective and unbiased, and just a 'show me the facts' type of lawmakers!

[fatlazyless]

Hi Rattlesnake Guy....hopefully I'll have enough time to sense the propeller revolutions as even a stealth boat needs to energize the water to be mov'n forward.........wwwrrrr......wwwrrrr....wwwrrrrr.. .....paddle......paddle.....paddle....exit stage right....

Fair skies, low humidity & good fish'n to you...
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a message to the reader here...

Dear Reader, before it expires, suggest you look at the 35 e-mail, reader comments to the speed limits article in the www.unionleader.com, NH's largest newspaper, and especially to red-hot 'Bea from Gilford'......go Bea, go Bea, go Girl go! You the best of the best!!!

Hey there, just forget about today's super bowl, Patriots vs Giants, what WMUR & the Union Leader should be bookn' is 'Bea from Gilford' verses "Dick from some cute village" in the red-hot, speed limits debate of the totally committed, intellectually advanced, Super Advocates. Now, that would really get the ratings!

[fatlazyless]

NH State Rep Sherman Packard (R) Rockingham is currently in his ninth term and has served for about 18 years. From 1996-2006 he was the Chairman of the House Transportation Committee, and is now the ranking Republican on this committee.

Elected to the Sturgis Motorcycle Hall of Fame in 2003, he's been a long time advocate for "motorcycle-no helmet option' policy in NH.

"A solution looking for a problem" were his words and he voted no to the HB-847 speed limits bill.

Had he still been the chairman of the House Transportation Committee, would HB847 have passed with its' very strong 236-111 vote?

On February 2, 2006, the NH House passed HB162 by a much closer vote of 193-139 . It has 400 members, total.