Swim Raft Permits

[Boat Doc]

Just found out that there was a public hearing this AM regarding the new swim raft permit rules so I missed it but the written comment period is open until the 14th...

One more permit we'll all have to get although I am told it is free which makes me wonder how the state can afford to manage a permit program? Link to the proposed rules: www.nhshorefront.org/pdfs/raftrules6210.pdf

You can send comments to the e-mail address for rules at the Dept. of Safety: rules@safety.state.nh.us

50 ft from shore? What's the point of having a raft if it is only 50 ft out?

[LakeSnake]

9876543210

[eyenotall777]

It states 50ft from shore or 8ft of water, whichever comes first.

You need to go out at least 100' to get into 6ft of water in front of our shoreline....ugh!

This is getting absurd

[Pineedles]

WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP! Sorry for being so subtle. Now I'll let the Dept. of Safety how I really feel about hearings being held when property owners are not there. At 50' I'll be nose divng into the bottom when I dive off of it.

^&&(*&^&_*(*_)**())^&##_+*&!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by eyenotall777

It states 50ft from shore or 8ft of water, whichever comes first.

You need to go out at least 100' to get into 6ft of water in front of our shoreline....ugh!

This is getting absurd

That has to be a typo!... 50' from shore and there will be a lot of people getting hurt jumping from their rafts!! It must mean 150'...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

That has to be a typo!... 50' from shore and there will be a lot of people getting hurt jumping from their rafts!! It must mean 150'...

when was the last time one of these nanny laws made sense? it won't be long until they try to pass the swim cap and flag law again...

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

.... it won't be long until they try to pass the swim cap and flag law again...

In addition to the swim cap, the rules will be updated to require seat belts on the raft and users will be required to wear a PFD

... now about the swim raft operator's permit ....

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by eyenotall777

It states 50ft from shore or 8ft of water, whichever comes first.

You need to go out at least 100' to get into 6ft of water in front of our shoreline....ugh!

This is getting absurd

I think I have 8' of water about 20 from shore. Does that mean I have anchor my raft mid way down my dock?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

I think I have 8' of water about 20 from shore. Does that mean I have anchor my raft mid way down my dock?

By the letter of the law that's exactly what it means! It just simply does not make any sense whatsoever...

[jrc]

...
(l) After receipt of a request for a waiver in conformance with (k) above, the
director shall conduct a visual inspection of the proposed swim raft site. A waiver shall
be granted if the director determines that the proposed swim raft placement does not
constitute a hazard or obstruction to navigation. The conditions of the waiver shall appear
on the swim raft permit when issued.
(m) A swim raft permit shall expire on December 31 of each year.

Don't worry the director will come to your house and make sure everything is OK. And BTW you can do it again next year.

Remember with bureaucrats, it's all about the process.

[jmen24]

HELP ME!! HELP ME!! Someone please save me from myself!!!

Unreal. Yea they will come out and review your site for a special exeption, you might want to get on that list early, because I think that is going to be a long list.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Boat Doc

Just found out that there was a public hearing this AM regarding the new swim raft permit rules so I missed it but the written comment period is open until the 14th...

One more permit we'll all have to get although I am told it is free which makes me wonder how the state can afford to manage a permit program? Link to the proposed rules: www.nhshorefront.org/pdfs/raftrules6210.pdf

You can send comments to the e-mail address for rules at the Dept. of Safety: rules@safety.state.nh.us

50 ft from shore? What's the point of having a raft if it is only 50 ft out?

It may be free this year, but you can guarantee that if the state has a chance to charge someone for this bogus permit they will!!

[tummyman]

Note the need for a tax map and lot number...... are they planning on passing this data on to the towns so they can add these items to our property taxes ? Don't know why they don't want a copy of the tax map as well. On Wetlands permits, you need to send a US Geological Survey Topographical map as well....why not here to make this even more egregious. Maybe we should also have to have a life saving ring on the raft ???? And when do you measure depth...do you have to correct for full lake level 504.32 or do you loose a foot of water in late season draw down, making the raft only in 7 feet of water?? Next will be taxes and permits for docks... just a matter of time. What difference does it make to measure to neighbors two lots or more down...if the frontage is less than 200 feet of abutters. And is it just shorefront abutters or all abutters ? What other stupid stuff could we get from the Marine Patrol....they are sure stuck on stupid.

[RailroadJoe]

Of course it's free. All they want is the information in order for them to send a permit (for X amount of dollars) next year. Works the same as the new federal salt water free permit this year and $35.00 next year. Once they got your name and place you are in for it.
Another one for the state. More to come.

[NoBozo]

It's pretty Scary when Government wraps their arms around every facet of your life. This is not just local. Who's running things now..? I stated in another post earlier.."Incrementalism Works Every Time It's Tried." Next year there WILL be a Fee for .....This Service...for your raft.

Good News: There IS a way out. Have CASH .. in your pocket when the Director..or his Representative comes by for their "Inspection". NB

PS: This is NOT really funny...........but it's where we're going....

[trfour]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

It's pretty Scary when Government wraps their arms around every facet of your life. This is not just local. Who's running things now..? I stated in another post earlier.."Incrementalism Works Every Time It's Tried." Next year there WILL be a Fee for .....This Service...for your raft.

Good News: There IS a way out. Have CASH .. in your pocket when the Director..or his Representative comes by for their "Inspection". NB

PS: This is NOT really funny...........but it's where we're going....

"This is NOT really funny...........but it's where we're going...."

A turn around though, is a commi'n when the palm trees get greased and extinct...
I always thought that the learning process was supposed to start at birth!

Not so much any more, MLB has left and right handed gloves. My hope is that there will be someone left in the Grandstands that just catches the line drives bare handed... And by the way, I did that once at Fenway Park during a RedSox game, Oh and yes it smarted but didn't add that much to my particular smarts. I trusted those that were supposedly in the know!

Now, I don't know about Y'all, but it seems that the older and wizer I get, that maybe I should pass some of it on to whom ever will listen.
Disclaimer;... trfour is a work in progress, ( No Comment ).

June 2010 ??
"Houston, We Are All In Deep DO DO!" DO Do Do Do Do Do Do Do}



Terry
______________________________

[Sunbeam lodge]

[QUOTE=Boat Doc;129128]Just found out that there was a public hearing this AM regarding the new swim raft permit rules so I missed it but the written comment period is open until the 14th...

One more permit we'll all have to get although I am told it is free which makes me wonder how the state can afford to manage a permit program? Link to the proposed rules: [URL="http://www.nhshorefront.org


Won't these guys ever quit? Can't they find something else to do?

[kjbathe]

Lots of grousing here, but have folks called their State Reps? Or thought about replacing them next time around?

[phoenix]

our new motto "will be live free or die( permit required first)"

[Seaplane Pilot]

The snowball is rapidly rolling down the slippery slope. As with the other controversial legislation (which will remain unnamed), it's time to vote these clowns out of office - every one of them. As I've said before, I will do everything I can to support any candidate that is running against any Rep or Senator that voted for the "controversial legislation" (which will remain unnamed). This is totally out of control. When will people wake up?

[lawn psycho]

This is comical. Many (of course not all) shorefront owners want to regulate what boaters can and can't do (rafting, anchoring, etc) but then get miffed when they are regulated.

If you place a dock or a structure in the water, I think it's prudent to have a permit. What stops "homeowner bonehead" from putting a raft anywhere he/she wants?

You're placing an object on state property so I think a permit stating where it's planned to be is not unreasonable.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

This is comical. Many (of course not all) shorefront owners want to regulate what boaters can and can't do (rafting, anchoring, etc) but then get miffed when they are regulated. If you place a dock or a structure in the water, I think it's prudent to have a permit. What stops "homeowner bonehead" from putting a raft anywhere he/she wants? You're placing an object on state property so I think a permit stating where it's planned to be is not unreasonable.

Here—you've hit the nail right on the thumb—although I think everyone receiving a swim raft permit will have a "reasonable" excuse for where it is placed.

I don't have any particular objection to where swim rafts are placed presently—whatever "works" for the property owner.

However, in recent years, oversized swim rafts have sprouted all around our lake area. Some are out pretty far, which has raised complaints—by boaters who are miffed at having to observe the Unsafe Passage rule.

At least one lake solved this problem by a lake-wide NWZ, out to 600-feet!

Problem sol-ved.

But suppose you don't use it as a swim raft?

One I saw last season (near Cow Island) appeared to be an inflatable golf green.

(Complete with palm trees )

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Here—you've hit the nail right on the thumb—although I think everyone receiving a swim raft permit will have a "reasonable" excuse for where it is placed.

I don't have any particular objection to where swim rafts are placed presently—whatever "works" for the property owner.

However, in recent years, oversized swim rafts have sprouted all around our lake area. Some are out pretty far, which has raised complaints—by boaters who are miffed at having to observe the Unsafe Passage rule.

At least one lake solved this problem by a lake-wide NWZ, out to 600-feet!

Problem sol-ved.

But suppose you don't use it as a swim raft?

One I saw last season (near Cow Island) appeared to be an inflatable golf green.

(Complete with palm trees )

Is that picture from Winni? I see too things. One is the hideous raft but you can't ban ugly. Two, I see what looks like a putting green and a rough collar that go right to the waters edge. Where is this located as you can't maintain a putting green without a high input of fertilizer, mowing, and herbicides to keep the weeds out and grass uniform?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Is that picture from Winni? I see too things. One is the hideous raft but you can't ban ugly. Two, I see what looks like a putting green and a rough collar that go right to the waters edge. Where is this located as you can't maintain a putting green without a high input of fertilizer, mowing, and herbicides to keep the weeds out and grass uniform?

My point was that this raft is not technically a swim raft, and may be exempt. (For now).

The photo is not from Winnipesaukee, but the raft in the photo is identical to one you could have viewed here last summer: Even then, I can't give the actual location without embarrassing Lake Winnipesaukee residents whose clear-cut compound is in my all-too-plain-view.

[NoBozo]

I can see why someone would not want one of those BIG Yellow, Red, and Orange plastic/rubber "Fun House" looking circus rafts anywhere in sight off their property. Talk about ruining the view..

From last june on mooring balls. Funny how things just come around again. NB

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ooring+permits

[4 for Boating]

Would it not be simpler, less expensive and less complicated to have the Marine Patrol keep an eye out for swim platforms that may be an obstruction or safety concern? Are the really going to send someone out to each site that does not comply with the standards (which are not well thought out). And this is going to happen each and every year? How bad is the issue? Is this needed or are we lowing things out of proportion?

Seems to me that a small percentage of rafts are a problem. Maybe the enforcement individuals out on the water are best to determine which are and are not a TRUE hazard. (Marine Patrol) Maybe they could leave a tag on the raft stating they the owner needs to contact the state about the placement.

As far as the state motto, the whole “Live free or Die” thing is pretty much dead don’t you think? Perhaps just adopting “The Granite State” would be more accurate and not so silly given the true nature of the way things are.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

Would it not be simpler, less expensive and less complicated to have the Marine Patrol keep an eye out for swim platforms that may be an obstruction or safety concern? Are the really going to send someone out to each site that does not comply with the standards (which are not well thought out). And this is going to happen each and every year? How bad is the issue? Is this needed or are we lowing things out of proportion?

Seems to me that a small percentage of rafts are a problem. Maybe the enforcement individuals out on the water are best to determine which are and are not a TRUE hazard. (Marine Patrol) Maybe they could leave a tag on the raft stating they the owner needs to contact the state about the placement.

As far as the state motto, the whole “Live free or Die” thing is pretty much dead don’t you think? Perhaps just adopting “The Granite State” would be more accurate and not so silly given the true nature of the way things are.

They way things are? This nation was built upon the foundation of laws. Ever read a little document known as the Constitution?

[4 for Boating]

Just a simple joke/jab about how the “Laws” continue to become more invasive.

AND Yes, I have read the Constitution. Am I not exercising my right to free speech?

[Bear Islander]

The 50' from shore or 8' of water whichever comes first is idiotic. The thing to do is click the link below and "comment" on it.


rules@safety.state.nh.us

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The 50' from shore or 8' of water whichever comes first is idiotic. The thing to do is click the link below and "comment" on it.


rules@safety.state.nh.us

Is it? So you decide to put a raft 100 ft from shore and then boaters are required to be less than headway speed now 250 ft from shore.

Why should you even be allowed to have a raft since the lake is not your property?

[RailroadJoe]

Yup, read the constitution. Printed out the Spanish version, but can't read Spanish

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

Yup, read the constitution. Printed out the Spanish version, but can't read Spanish

The constitution doesn't guarantee someone is bright enough to print the correct file

[Lake Fan]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Why should you even be allowed to have a raft since the lake is not your property?

Riparian owners have certain rights granted them that non-waterfront owners do not have. Generally:

Under the riparian principle, all landowners whose property is adjoining to a body of water have the right to make reasonable use of it. These rights cannot be sold or transferred other than with the adjoining land, and water cannot be transferred out of the watershed.

Riparian rights include such things as the right to access for swimming, boating and fishing; the right to wharf out to a point of navigability; the right to erect structures such as docks, piers, and boat lifts; the right to use the water for domestic purposes; the right to accretions caused by water level fluctuations.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Is it? So you decide to put a raft 100 ft from shore and then boaters are required to be less than headway speed now 250 ft from shore.

Why should you even be allowed to have a raft since the lake is not your property?

You are wrong about the lake not being my property. Owners of waterfront property are the "literal owners" of the lake in front of their property. That is why we have a RIGHT to put in docks, moorings, water intakes, swim rafts etc.

We have been through this before on the forum, and I know that many people don't understand it or even believe it. But it is the law, and always has been.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

You are wrong about the lake not being my property. Owners of waterfront property are the "literal owners" of the lake in front of their property. That is why we have a RIGHT to put in docks, moorings, water intakes, swim rafts etc.

We have been through this before on the forum, and I know that many people don't understand it or even believe it. But it is the law, and always has been.

And you have the DUTY to fill out a permit application for said appertuances too.....

And your "rights" are not without bounds. If you own on Bear Is it does not give you the right to place a raft in Alton Bay. If your property is near a high boat traffic area then MP has the right to restrict where you can or can not place an item such as a dock or raft.

And for the record, you do not "own" the lake. Just like if you have an easement on or across someone's property, ownership and right of use are mutually exclusive.

[4 for Boating]

Still think the whole issue of rafts placed in locations that are a real hazard or safety concern could be handled by the Marine Patrol with some resonable guidelines and not a permit process that will generate a lot of paperwork and overhead every year.

[KonaChick]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

Still think the whole issue of rafts placed in locations that are a real hazard or safety concern could be handled by the Marine Patrol with some resonable guidelines and not a permit process that will generate a lot of paperwork and overhead every year.

They already do handle it. A few years ago MP came to our house stating that a neighbor complained our swim raft was an obstruction when he was docking his boat. It turned out to be a problem with someone else in our cover and their next door neighbor, not us. The point here is that MP was called and MP did respond.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The 50' from shore or 8' of water whichever comes first is idiotic. The thing to do is click the link below and "comment" on it.


rules@safety.state.nh.us

Thanks for that email address. Of course those that see the dumb things that shorefront owners do can be remedied too.

Don't think those little violations are noticed? Guess again. You'd be amazed at what I can shoot with my lenses

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Thanks for that email address. Of course those that see the dumb things that shorefront owners do can be remedied too.

Don't think those little violations are noticed? Guess again. You'd be amazed at what I can shoot with my lenses

What violations are you talking about? Are you making some kind of accusation? Let's not be shy, to what are you referring?

And I already have 5 camera lenses pointed at my property and available to the public.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

What violations are you talking about? Are you making some kind of accusation? Let's not be shy, to what are you referring?

And I already have 5 camera lenses pointed at my property and available to the public.

Against you, no and I don't know which house is specifically yours. I haven't even had the chance to circle Bear Is, yet.

This spring I've been photographing some houses out of interest in landscaping and architechure. Out of interest, I have done some research on waterfront requirements for swim lines, docks, beaches, landscaping, etc. I'm waiting on feedback from the State on slope requirements as during my photo quest I stumbled onto something by chance but then see a lot of it occuring.

If I had my way, nobody should be able to build on the lake. Every shore front home contributes to water quality issues and blight of the shoreline. It's a finite resource that is being raped.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

If I had my way, nobody should be able to build on the lake. Every shore front home contributes to water quality issues and blight of the shoreline. It's a finite resource that is being raped.

It is a good thing for many of us that you don't have your way, but you are right. Each shore front home is contributing to the very evident decline of water quality. Everyone with shore front property should minimize their impact as much as possible. Perhaps a topic for a new thread, but here are the basics. Upgrade your septic system if needed, so effluents do not leach into the lake. Don't use fertilizer. Remove dog poop near the lake. Keep as much shoreline vegetation as possible. Look at how water runs off your property during heavy rains, and slow its entry into the lake where possible. For the blight problem, plant trees between buildings and the lake and camouflage your house with a woodsy color. And in an attempt to touch the topic at hand, keep your mooring balls and floats more than 150' from common boat routes.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

It is a good thing for many of us that you don't have your way, but you are right. Each shore front home is contributing to the very evident decline of water quality. Everyone with shore front property should minimize their impact as much as possible. Perhaps a topic for a new thread, but here are the basics. Upgrade your septic system if needed, so effluents do not leach into the lake. Don't use fertilizer. Remove dog poop near the lake. Keep as much shoreline vegetation as possible. Look at how water runs off your property during heavy rains, and slow its entry into the lake where possible. For the blight problem, plant trees between buildings and the lake and camouflage your house with a woodsy color. And in an attempt to touch the topic at hand, keep your mooring balls and floats more than 150' from common boat routes.

I disagree. I am already doing all the things you listed including, no dogs, no fertilizer, a legal septic over 200' from shore, and my house is painted to match the landscape. I can't see how my shore front home is responsible for the decline in water quality.

Now if you want to talk about my power boat, you may have a point.

[tis]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Against you, no and I don't know which house is specifically yours. I haven't even had the chance to circle Bear Is, yet.

This spring I've been photographing some houses out of interest in landscaping and architechure. Out of interest, I have done some research on waterfront requirements for swim lines, docks, beaches, landscaping, etc. I'm waiting on feedback from the State on slope requirements as during my photo quest I stumbled onto something by chance but then see a lot of it occuring.

If I had my way, nobody should be able to build on the lake. Every shore front home contributes to water quality issues and blight of the shoreline. It's a finite resource that is being raped.

Do you own a house on the lake? I often think I feel a conflict here on those who own property on the lake and those who only have their boat in the lake. (Not all people of course.)

But back on topic, I agree, the registration is not necessary in order for MP to keep swimming rafts in order. It is just another law we don't need and won't help one darn bit.

I have been spending the last few weeks reviewing government regulations and I am so sick of them, I can't tell you. IMHO they don't do a darn thing anyway when something really happens. Consider BP and the oil mess in the Gulf. I am sure they were regulated to death and look at all the good it did.

[jrc]

It's so tempting to have a little schadenfreude with some of the people who pushed that other law, but it's a bad idea. This law is stupid for the same reason the other one is, trying to use arbitrary numbers. We have a law that covers obstructions to navigation. Anyone who puts a swim raft where it obstructs naviagation, in the opinion of the Marine Patrol (or pick another arbiter) gets a warning and then a fine. No new law needed.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

They way things are? This nation was built upon the foundation of laws. Ever read a little document known as the Constitution?

Post Deleted by Author as inappropriate. NB

[kunamola]

Originally Posted by kjbathe

Lots of grousing here, but have folks called their State Reps? Or thought about replacing them next time around?

Ahh, if only everyone could vote where they own property. Somehow, I doubt that my State Rep. would be the least bit interested in some ridiculous NH law.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Boat Doc

Just found out that there was a public hearing this AM regarding the new swim raft permit rules so I missed it but the written comment period is open until the 14th...

One more permit we'll all have to get although I am told it is free which makes me wonder how the state can afford to manage a permit program? Link to the proposed rules: www.nhshorefront.org/pdfs/raftrules6210.pdf

You can send comments to the e-mail address for rules at the Dept. of Safety: rules@safety.state.nh.us

50 ft from shore? What's the point of having a raft if it is only 50 ft out?

Just wanted to remind everyone where to write to express your opinion about the swim raft regulation. And remember, the regulation says 50 feet!