Local rigger to splice?

jrc · 09-15-2010, 10:25 PM

The last few feet of my anchor line, near where it connects to the anchor chain, is getting a little worn. I'd like to cut off a few feet or maybe reverse the line, using the other end.

Either way I need to splice 8 plait line to chain. I've done three stand line before but I not ready to try 8 plait, especially on the anchor rode. This has to run through the windlass and of course be strong, so I'm looking for a pro.

Does anyone know of someone on the west side of the lake than can do this? On the boat would be best (25 feet of chain is heavy) but I'll pull it off the boat if I have to.

chillininnh · 09-16-2010, 10:04 AM

David Putnam of Knotical Marine Lines of Center Harbor is certainly more than capable of splicing your line. Give him a call on his cell at 603-387-9279.

Lakesrider · 09-23-2010, 05:10 PM

Wow. Good to know. I need a new anchor line as well. Thanks.

jrc · 09-23-2010, 08:01 PM

Thanks, Chillin I missed your answer.

I'll wait tillI pull the boat and then call David.

no-engine · 10-01-2010, 07:33 AM

Question:
Why is a line 8 ply (plait?)? Three can be obtained in many sizes, and is certainly quite adequate. I have spliced over a thimble eye (galvanized eye shape), and then it is in a shackle. Therefore, the line is NOT permanently through a link in the chain. You do not need to transport the chain - only the line. Please do not let anyone splice directly to a link in chain - the very reasons in case it needs to be separated!

NoRegrets · 10-01-2010, 09:09 AM

If your line goes through a windless there is a special line splice required or you will have a problem having the line feed back into the locker. Most windless manufacturers will give exact specs for their device.

The 8 plait line is more supple than the standard 3 ply line and takes alot more time / lablor to splice and seal.

The thimble you refer to is excellent to use but not for a windless. I am not sure why you would not let anyone splice to a chain. Lines can be spliced until they become to old and hard. That is when you should replace it.

jrc · 10-01-2010, 09:37 AM

First why 8 plait? becuase that's what came with the boat/windlass when I bought it new. I have 150 feet of 8 plait nylon line, which is spliced to 25 feet of chain. The chain is attached to the anchor with a shackel, but the line is attached to the chain with a splice to the link.

As Noregrets says, the windlass needs to have splice there, so I can retreive the chain and then the line without manual intervention.

Anchoring in Winni means rocks, which obviously don't bother the chain. But the last few feet of line are chewed up from sitting on the bottom.

My rear anchor has thimbles and shackels as you describe, but I haul that by hand.

no-engine · 10-01-2010, 01:35 PM

Sorry jrc, I am not familiar at all with your specific windlass.

However, I was thinking that because I have lots experience with more chain than you mention and then the connection to line, via the shackle & thimble situation, creating very minimal abrasion to the line. I have seen many times the connections go thru a windlass and/or winch of many types, and then stored thru a deck opening to a locker. I'd be very curious to see your boat's windlass' link to a website.
Some of my anchoring experiences are in Islands with lots of coral and also rocks, so I understand. I have seen many boats with only chain for those very reasons.

fpartri497 · 10-01-2010, 02:18 PM

I was very surprised to find that my anchor line on my new 4-Winns 258 cruiser has 40 Ft. of chain and about another 150 Ft. of line attached.

no-engine · 10-01-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fpartri497

I was very surprised to find that my anchor line on my new 4-Winns 258 cruiser has 40 Ft. of chain and about another 150 Ft. of line attached.

I think that chain to line ratio seems pretty standard, and the company is planning to be neutral, planning for ocean coves and lake uses. The appropriate ratio of the anchor rode to depth is about 7 to 1! I could pull out my reference books, but I think 7:1 is appropriate in many areas, subject to the weather and seas.

jrc · 10-01-2010, 07:36 PM

My boat came with the now discontinued windlass in this link:

http://www.maxwellmarine.com/gen_freedom.php

I have not seen a windlass of that style that can pass a thimble and a shackel. It would be nice.

The nice thing about this type is you just press the up button and the windlass pulls up the nylon rope and seamlessly switches to chain without touching a thing. Most times I don't even have to leave the helm.

I thought about all chain, but I would likely need at least 150 feet and that's pretty heavy.

BTW No-engine, the scope suggestions in the books range from 3 to 1 up to 7 to 1.

I usually don't need seven, because on Winnipesaukee, I'm never staying overnight. Plus using 200 feet in 30 feet of water means that you can swing almost 350 feet side to side. That's going to get you in trouble in a crowded anchorage.

For a half day on the hook I use about 3 to 1, unless there is big wind. Then find room for more.

NHBUOY · 10-01-2010, 09:44 PM

...very informative chit-chat...thanx

no-engine · 10-02-2010, 09:00 AM

All I can say is WOW, looking at that picture of chain to line connection.
In all my time in nautical situations, I have never seen such connection - the line directly. Such poor seamanship! No wonder the windlass is now discontinued!

Anything regarding a boat should be easily reversed, thus the shackle connection. The only way to disconnect would be to cut the line! An after-thought: for such time & money invested in the antique boats at the July Show, it's unreal the owner's lack of knot-tying knowledge!

I have been aboard many boats many times seeing chain to shackle to line and splice over the eye thimble, and seen it all pass over winches and windlasses without an issue. YES, that picture looks good to a non-experienced viewer, that the windlass will function pulling the line and then transition to chain.
Also, I personally have crewed aboard and been forward to observe the winching up of anchor to make sure there is nothing jammed like a rock from the bottom. We never pressed a button without observing.
I hate to be negative about what a manufacturer has delivered on a good sized boat, seriously. Some "engineer" learned their lesson and stopped production; I wonder what they changed to. Thanks for reading my observations.

jrc · 10-03-2010, 07:51 PM

No-engine, without trying to be a wiseguy, you should get out more

We obviously do different kinds of boating, I'm guessing you sail and these tend to be power boat windlasses. Most mid-sized recreational boats use this type of windlass.

If you look at the Maxwell website you will see several similar models still in full production. The model on my boat was a cheaper version and probably discontinued for that reason. My previous boat had a similar model from Lofrans, they are also made by Good and Lewmar.

They work very well and I have very few problems with mine. Once and a while a snarl in the line while deploying needs to be cleared but it takes a minute to clear. I always observe the line during deployment and retrivial, but I watch from the helm. If anything goes amiss, then I go forward to the windlass.

I would guess that more than 80% of the power boats that came from the factory with a power windlass, have this style of windlass.

A rope splice is far stronger than a knot and that's why it's popular on anchor rodes and dock lines. I don't see reversability as a big issue, unsplicing is easier than splicing. I'm sure I could unsplice my 8 plait line from the chain, I just don't have the skill to splice it. As you say cutting is always an option.

09-15-2010, 10:25 PM	#1
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Local rigger to splice? The last few feet of my anchor line, near where it connects to the anchor chain, is getting a little worn. I'd like to cut off a few feet or maybe reverse the line, using the other end. Either way I need to splice 8 plait line to chain. I've done three stand line before but I not ready to try 8 plait, especially on the anchor rode. This has to run through the windlass and of course be strong, so I'm looking for a pro. Does anyone know of someone on the west side of the lake than can do this? On the boat would be best (25 feet of chain is heavy) but I'll pull it off the boat if I have to.

10-01-2010, 02:18 PM	#9
fpartri497 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Concord NH Posts: 681 Thanks: 97 Thanked 48 Times in 39 Posts	winlass chain I was very surprised to find that my anchor line on my new 4-Winns 258 cruiser has 40 Ft. of chain and about another 150 Ft. of line attached. __________________ dont worry be happy

10-02-2010, 09:00 AM	#13
no-engine Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West side Winnipesaukee, Lakes Region Posts: 516 Thanks: 20 Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts	Windlass All I can say is WOW, looking at that picture of chain to line connection. In all my time in nautical situations, I have never seen such connection - the line directly. Such poor seamanship! No wonder the windlass is now discontinued! Anything regarding a boat should be easily reversed, thus the shackle connection. The only way to disconnect would be to cut the line! An after-thought: for such time & money invested in the antique boats at the July Show, it's unreal the owner's lack of knot-tying knowledge! I have been aboard many boats many times seeing chain to shackle to line and splice over the eye thimble, and seen it all pass over winches and windlasses without an issue. YES, that picture looks good to a non-experienced viewer, that the windlass will function pulling the line and then transition to chain. Also, I personally have crewed aboard and been forward to observe the winching up of anchor to make sure there is nothing jammed like a rock from the bottom. We never pressed a button without observing. I hate to be negative about what a manufacturer has delivered on a good sized boat, seriously. Some "engineer" learned their lesson and stopped production; I wonder what they changed to. Thanks for reading my observations.

09-16-2010, 10:04 AM	#2
chillininnh Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 54 Thanks: 8 Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts	David Putnam of Knotical Marine Lines of Center Harbor is certainly more than capable of splicing your line. Give him a call on his cell at 603-387-9279.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to chillininnh For This Useful Post:
jrc (09-23-2010), Lakesrider (09-23-2010)

09-23-2010, 05:10 PM	#3
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	Wow. Good to know. I need a new anchor line as well. Thanks.

09-23-2010, 08:01 PM	#4
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Thanks, Chillin I missed your answer. I'll wait tillI pull the boat and then call David.

10-01-2010, 07:33 AM	#5
no-engine Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West side Winnipesaukee, Lakes Region Posts: 516 Thanks: 20 Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts	Question: Why is a line 8 ply (plait?)? Three can be obtained in many sizes, and is certainly quite adequate. I have spliced over a thimble eye (galvanized eye shape), and then it is in a shackle. Therefore, the line is NOT permanently through a link in the chain. You do not need to transport the chain - only the line. Please do not let anyone splice directly to a link in chain - the very reasons in case it needs to be separated!

10-01-2010, 09:09 AM	#6
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	If your line goes through a windless there is a special line splice required or you will have a problem having the line feed back into the locker. Most windless manufacturers will give exact specs for their device. The 8 plait line is more supple than the standard 3 ply line and takes alot more time / lablor to splice and seal. The thimble you refer to is excellent to use but not for a windless. I am not sure why you would not let anyone splice to a chain. Lines can be spliced until they become to old and hard. That is when you should replace it.

10-01-2010, 09:37 AM	#7
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	First why 8 plait? becuase that's what came with the boat/windlass when I bought it new. I have 150 feet of 8 plait nylon line, which is spliced to 25 feet of chain. The chain is attached to the anchor with a shackel, but the line is attached to the chain with a splice to the link. As Noregrets says, the windlass needs to have splice there, so I can retreive the chain and then the line without manual intervention. Anchoring in Winni means rocks, which obviously don't bother the chain. But the last few feet of line are chewed up from sitting on the bottom. My rear anchor has thimbles and shackels as you describe, but I haul that by hand.

10-01-2010, 01:35 PM	#8
no-engine Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West side Winnipesaukee, Lakes Region Posts: 516 Thanks: 20 Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts	Sorry jrc, I am not familiar at all with your specific windlass. However, I was thinking that because I have lots experience with more chain than you mention and then the connection to line, via the shackle & thimble situation, creating very minimal abrasion to the line. I have seen many times the connections go thru a windlass and/or winch of many types, and then stored thru a deck opening to a locker. I'd be very curious to see your boat's windlass' link to a website. Some of my anchoring experiences are in Islands with lots of coral and also rocks, so I understand. I have seen many boats with only chain for those very reasons.

10-01-2010, 07:36 PM	#11
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	My boat came with the now discontinued windlass in this link: http://www.maxwellmarine.com/gen_freedom.php I have not seen a windlass of that style that can pass a thimble and a shackel. It would be nice. The nice thing about this type is you just press the up button and the windlass pulls up the nylon rope and seamlessly switches to chain without touching a thing. Most times I don't even have to leave the helm. I thought about all chain, but I would likely need at least 150 feet and that's pretty heavy. BTW No-engine, the scope suggestions in the books range from 3 to 1 up to 7 to 1. I usually don't need seven, because on Winnipesaukee, I'm never staying overnight. Plus using 200 feet in 30 feet of water means that you can swing almost 350 feet side to side. That's going to get you in trouble in a crowded anchorage. For a half day on the hook I use about 3 to 1, unless there is big wind. Then find room for more.

10-01-2010, 09:44 PM	#12
NHBUOY Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Loon Mtn. winters...Meredith Neck summers Posts: 398 Thanks: 288 Thanked 94 Times in 60 Posts	...very informative chit-chat...thanx

10-03-2010, 07:51 PM	#14
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	No-engine, without trying to be a wiseguy, you should get out more We obviously do different kinds of boating, I'm guessing you sail and these tend to be power boat windlasses. Most mid-sized recreational boats use this type of windlass. If you look at the Maxwell website you will see several similar models still in full production. The model on my boat was a cheaper version and probably discontinued for that reason. My previous boat had a similar model from Lofrans, they are also made by Good and Lewmar. They work very well and I have very few problems with mine. Once and a while a snarl in the line while deploying needs to be cleared but it takes a minute to clear. I always observe the line during deployment and retrivial, but I watch from the helm. If anything goes amiss, then I go forward to the windlass. I would guess that more than 80% of the power boats that came from the factory with a power windlass, have this style of windlass. A rope splice is far stronger than a knot and that's why it's popular on anchor rodes and dock lines. I don't see reversability as a big issue, unsplicing is easier than splicing. I'm sure I could unsplice my 8 plait line from the chain, I just don't have the skill to splice it. As you say cutting is always an option.