Back to business by Easter

[SailinAway]

Easter is 17 days from now.

Trump says he wants the nation "opened up and just raring to go by Easter" because Easter is "a beautiful time. A beautiful timeline."

The CDC says, "The United States nationally is in the INITIATION phase of the pandemic." That means we're not at the end; we're at the beginning of this crisis.

Anthony Fauci: "“I cannot see that all of a sudden, next week or two weeks from now it's going to be over. I don't think there's a chance of that."

Report from 8 infectious-disease modeling researchers, University of Massachusetts Amherst: "Only 12% of all coronavirus cases (including asymptomatic ones) had been reported in the US as of March 15. . . .The average of the researchers' predictions suggests that the virus could kill around 195,000 people in the US by the end of the year." Other experts predict over 2 million deaths in the US if more decisive action is not taken now.

Questions:

(1) Does Trump have the constitutional power to do something irrational, like ordering businesses to reopen, that will lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths?

(2) Whether he has the legal power or not, will anyone step in to stop him?

These questions may sound political, but essentially they're about our survival. Regardless of political leanings, a leader who does not understand or accept the scientific facts about a pandemic and does not listen to experts is himself a major threat to the survival of the nation and world.

At this point our food sources are apparently secure. When COVID-19 strikes thousands of people involved in the production and distribution of food, our food sources will no longer be secure---they will either dwindle or they will be infected, or both. Civil unrest will follow because people who don't have food do desperate things. This is what will happen if virus carriers return to work by Easter. The economy will be harmed far more than it is now.

Coronavirus poll results:

1. 56% of Americans don't believe COVID-19 is a real threat (March 17).
2. Half of Americans believe Trump is doing a good job managing the crisis.

Those polls mean that one-half of your neighbors are not going to be motivated to use social distancing, self-isolate if they're sick, or follow public health directives that limit the freedoms they're accustomed to. They also will not be motivated to demand rational countermeasures from their local, state, and federal authorities.

This crisis is about two things: science (facts) and human behavior. The science and facts are what they are. Human behavior is influenceable only to a certain extent. When people are driven by beliefs and emotions, and those are not based on science and facts, the outcome is going to be grim. When a leader's decisions are not based on science and facts, and he models actions that are not based on facts, the outcome is going to be grim.

Is COVID-19 not yet at your personal doorstep? It will be soon. One of my friends has it right now. Another friend died 10 days ago because he couldn't get proper medical care for another illness because the hospital in his area was overwhelmed by COVID-19. If you have a heart attack and your local hospital is dealing with an onslaught of COVID-19 cases, you might not get care. You think that big red dot around New York City on the COVID-19 map isn't going to expand into New Hampshire? It already is.

The nation "opened up and just raring to go by Easter"? This is magical thinking that threatens all of us, no matter what your personal politics are.

[Hillcountry]

You would have to be a dolt to think that his “ Easter” timeline message is anything but a calming, encouraging message to a nation of uncertainty.
Spare us with the doom and gloom crap.

[gwhite13]

My soon to be sacrificed mother-in-law, for the economy, always said never trust a man that dyes his (or someone elses) hair platinum blonde and paints his face basketball orange. LOL

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

You would have to be a dolt to think that his “ Easter” timeline message is anything but a calming, encouraging message to a nation of uncertainty.
Spare us with the doom and gloom crap.

The “Thanks” button isn’t enough. THANK YOU for your post, Hill.

[FlyingScot]

Well, I guess we'll know for sure in just a couple of weeks whether SailinAway or our President is the more reliable forecaster....Or maybe it's a couple of weeks after that?

Let's hope it's the President, but let's not pretend that he's a better bet than Dr Fauci and the rest of the medical establishment

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

You would have to be a dolt to think that his “ Easter” timeline message is anything but a calming, encouraging message to a nation of uncertainty.
Spare us with the doom and gloom crap.

The words themselves would be calming and encouraging coming from a reliable source. BUT how can anyone but a dolt really be encouraged when everyone, including many of his supporters, recognize that he is not a reliable source? Usually, his supporters recognize his difficulty with the truth by commenting “he really didn’t mean that” or “ you know how he is.” His words just are not credible enough to really be hopeful.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

The words themselves would be calming and encouraging coming from a reliable source. BUT how can anyone but a dolt really be encouraged when everyone, including many of his supporters, recognize that he is not a reliable source? Usually, his supporters recognize his difficulty with the truth by commenting “he really didn’t mean that” or “ you know how he is.” His words just are not credible enough to really be hopeful.

Well I guess I’m that dolt. We need to get the economy going. I believe these government hacks as much as I believe the climate alarmists. We need to get people back to work. This is cratering the economy and jeopardizing my children’s future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[winterh]

My sympathies go out to those who have contracted TDS. Trump Derangement Syndrome. Much worse for this country than the China Virus. It rots the brain and makes one unable to think clearly. We are lucky that with quarantine from the main stream media and an openness to new ideas it can be cured. Good luck

[birchhaven]

I would suggest everyone watch the actual press conferences and always go to the source of data rather than the news. In this day in age the actual source and date it is available to everyone. The news has become something else. If you watch the press conference he was very clear that he didn't mean the entire country, he was optimistic if an area is uneffected/undercontrol and measures can be taken to ensure that. Then it should have the requirements eased. He certainly was not saying NYC is going to be open for business or the entire country.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by birchhaven

. . . always go to the source of data .

Can you point us to the data that shows that it will be safe to reopen businesses in 17 days?

California and New York---two of the country's main economic engines---are under assault from the virus. Hotspots around Detroit and Chicago were identified today.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Can you point us to the data that shows that it will be safe to reopen businesses in 17 days?

California and New York---two of the country's main economic engines---are under assault from the virus. Hotspots around Detroit and Chicago were identified today.

Hmmmm..............It is interesting that the virus hot spots also seem to be Sanctuary Cities? Hmmmm.............

[birchhaven]

I don't think the data is complete so I am not gonna draw a conclusion. I did find it interesting that the virus was probably here for weeks/months being diagnosed as the "regular" flu and that it took ER visits for it to be properly diagnosed. I am not saying you are wrong for being upset. This is terrible. Maybe misdirected maybe not. But don't get your news from Fox or CNN. Don't even watch them. Everything is an editorial, opinion, hot take, not news. We now can see real news straight from the source go find it. That is what the internet is for. Why it is powerful. Why some nations censor it.

I think the inability to test and how some don't show symptoms is why this is so dangerous and why it is so much more wide spread than the data shows.

This site is not accurate but best I have found https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Look at other nations data they reported and then look at Chinas definitely does not follow same trend. Just saying 🐠

[4 for Boating]

When H1N1 hit the US in 2009, I think it was over 6 months and 1,000 people dead before Obama declared a national health emergency. Estimates put the total deaths in the US at over 13,000 with those going to the hospital around 275,000 and those suspected to have contracted it around 60 Million.

Can’t recall him ever telling people to distance themselves for 14 days or close borders to try to slow it down like Trump did. No one seem to critical of his actions back then.

This "seems" like a more contagious strain but if we are talking about the differences in how presidents responded to saves lives, does not even seem close. We can argue about not wanting Trump steering this ship but at least someone has his/her hands on the wheel this time.

Just saying…

[fatlazyless]

Apparently, this year's Monday, April 13 Easter egg roll on the White House lawn has been cancelled ..... www.whitehouse.gov/eastereggroll/ ..... that's always a fun event where the White House lawn is open to the public via an admission lottery held from Feb 18-24 .... it is not happening this year.

Better to be safe, than sorry.

It would have been the 142nd Easter egg roll held by the White House. (from the link above)

[jeffk]

Stupid, waste of time, political thread.

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by jeffk

Stupid, waste of time, political thread.

Ditto ......

[fatlazyless]

Paying $1.59 for gas at the Golden Pond store in Holderness, which has spaces for about six cars at six pumps is something like the lowest price in years, maybe since 2001.

About three years ago, the two Rt 93-Exit 25 stations were at 1.92, and that seemed very low after paying 3.99, the year earlier.

$1.599 for no name gas is low-low-low ..... and my car runs perfectly fine with it, as always, going close now to 200,000 miles on the 'riginal four spark plugs ..... a 2013 Scion xB with a 5-speed stick.

..... driv'n that golden road ..... to that Golden Pond store ..... for some low-priced, golden gasoline ..... in that 5th golden gear ..... is so totally golden!

[MBNeckguy]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Paying $1.59 for gas at the Golden Pond store in Holderness, which has spaces for about six cars at six pumps is something like the lowest price in years, maybe since 2001.

About three years ago, the two Rt 93-Exit 25 stations were at 1.92, and that seemed very low after paying 3.99, the year earlier.

$1.599 for no name gas is low-low-low ..... and my car runs perfectly fine with it, as always, going close now to 200,000 miles on the 'riginal four spark plugs ..... a 2013 Scion xB with a 5-speed stick.

..... driv'n that golden road ..... to that Golden Pond store ..... for some low-priced, golden gasoline ..... in that 5th golden gear ..... is so totally golden!

Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by MBNeckguy

Attachment 15750



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...... say-hey ......this Irving w/ $1.49 gas ...... somewhere in NH? ...... might be ten cents cheaper than the Golden Pond, but for $1.59, Golden Pond has old man Henry Fonda who comes outside, says hellooooooo, pumps the gas, washes the windshield, checks the oil, and usually tries to sell you a quart of GulfTEC Full Synthetic dexos-1 Gen 2 Motor Oil for 6.99/quart ..... so watch out for him!

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

When H1N1 hit the US in 2009, I think it was over 6 months and 1,000 people dead before Obama declared a national health emergency. Estimates put the total deaths in the US at over 13,000 with those going to the hospital around 275,000 and those suspected to have contracted it around 60 Million.

Can’t recall him ever telling people to distance themselves for 14 days or close borders to try to slow it down like Trump did. No one seem to critical of his actions back then.

This "seems" like a more contagious strain but if we are talking about the differences in how presidents responded to saves lives, does not even seem close. We can argue about not wanting Trump steering this ship but at least someone has his/her hands on the wheel this time.

Just saying…

Please read before you think.

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...swine-flu.html


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[fatlazyless]

Regular gasoline is 1.599/gal at the Golden Pond store in Holderness, close to Little Squam Lake. Filled up the tank for about $16 and there was just two other cars there. Was pretty quiet for a low price like that ...... 1.599/gal for no name gas.

For my econo-box car with the hit & run, side crush ..... gas is gas is gas ..... and all that matters is the price.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by birchhaven

I would suggest everyone watch the actual press conferences and always go to the source of data rather than the news. In this day in age the actual source and date it is available to everyone. The news has become something else. If you watch the press conference he was very clear that he didn't mean the entire country, he was optimistic if an area is uneffected/undercontrol and measures can be taken to ensure that. Then it should have the requirements eased. He certainly was not saying NYC is going to be open for business or the entire country.

I have watched almost all of the press conferences including that one. It is very difficult at times to understand exactly what he is saying. I did not say that he claimed NYC would be open for business. I read both CNN and Fox News. In fact, rather than believing he meant the whole country, he seemed to vaguely be referring to certain areas and that was also the gist of today’s news conference.

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by Major

Well I guess I’m that dolt. We need to get the economy going. I believe these government hacks as much as I believe the climate alarmists. We need to get people back to work. This is cratering the economy and jeopardizing my children’s future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At least you have a sense of self awareness. Anyway, here is a quote from one of your puppet masters, the #3 ranking republican in the house

There will be no normally functioning economy if our hospitals are overwhelmed and thousands of Americans of all ages, including our doctors and nurses, lay dying because we have failed to do what’s necessary to stop the virus.


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

This is cratering the economy and jeopardizing my children’s future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You should have put the word "financial" in front of children since that seams to be all you care about.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Biggd

You should have put the word "financial" in front of children since that seams to be all you care about.

Hmmm...sounds very familiar to what schifty pencil necked schiff did during the weak and twisted attempt to bring our president down by impeachment. He delivered a diatribe that put words in our President’s mouth that were never remotely, uttered. Surely a democrat trait?

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Hmmm...sounds very familiar to what schifty pencil necked schiff did during the weak and twisted attempt to bring our president down by impeachment. He delivered a diatribe that put words in our President’s mouth that were never remotely, uttered. Surely a democrat trait?

We are all in this together and democrats and republicans are doing the best they can under the circumstances and their differing views. Without question people who are forum members will die from the virus...so maybe stop the name calling and bring back civil discourse.

[fatlazyless]

If you want to get a close-up look at people in Bergamo, Italy in hospitals really suffering from the Covid-19 virus ...... you can google ....... 'We take the dead from morning to night' ....... to see a March 27, NY Times photo-report without having a paid subscription and it has a lot of photos.

Is a real eye opener, and deepest, deepest sympathy for these suffering people in Italy .... it is truly terrible.

So, every morning when you first wake up, do you check your throat to confirm that it is working as it should? Is the throat still good?

Ok, so yesterday-middle of the day, about 1-pm, I'm in the Meredith Hannaford frozen food aisle looking at Marie Callender items, and one of the Hannaford employees, a guy, gives me an unusual, extra hard stare at me, couldn't figure that out at the time, and now I'm thinking I was too close ..... and was probably five feet away at the time while opening the freezer door.

You know, you think to yourself ...... like, what is going on here, did I just do something wrong?

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

We are all in this together and democrats and republicans are doing the best they can under the circumstances and their differing views. Without question people who are forum members will die from the virus...so maybe stop the name calling and bring back civil discourse.

Ya right...every time I look at the list that Pelosi and Schumer are trying to push through with a stimulus bill...ya sure...the democrats want to help themselves to a big juicy peach of bill that has nothing to do with combating the Chinese virus nor helping us “get together”
Just more of the swamp sludge sloshing around the capitol while the little guy is going down the toilet.

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Ya right...every time I look at the list that Pelosi and Schumer are trying to push through with a stimulus bill...ya sure...the democrats want to help themselves to a big juicy peach of bill that has nothing to do with combating the Chinese virus nor helping us “get together”
Just more of the swamp sludge sloshing around the capitol while the little guy is going down the toilet.

Maybe you are more educated than I on the difference between the sides. I know the Democrats do not want any aid going to Trump's business nor do they want to give away money to the cruise ships that are not registered in the USA and therefore do not pay taxes. So, why not educate us on what you see as not combatting Covid-19.

As for the little guy going down the toilet maybe you can articulate that as well?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

Maybe you are more educated than I on the difference between the sides. I know the Democrats do not want any aid going to Trump's business nor do they want to give away money to the cruise ships that are not registered in the USA and therefore do not pay taxes. So, why not educate us on what you see as not combatting Covid-19.

As for the little guy going down the toilet maybe you can articulate that as well?

Not answering for Hill but the fact is they are trying to push through 11 billion for the funding for the African Development Fund (ADF), the African Development Bank (AfDB) and the International Development Association (IDA).

Do you really think this is a time to "donate" that kind of money to foreign countries where so many of our own are out of a job or are going to be out of a job?

What does the Kennedy Center have to do with this pandemic??...and there are many many other special interests trying to be added or have been added to this bill!

Honestly can you tell me why on earth the bill should include ANYTHING but relief efforts for US citizens due to the Covid19 virus?...and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??

Dan

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Not answering for Hill but the fact is they are trying to push through 11 billion for the funding for the African Development Fund (ADF), the African Development Bank (AfDB) and the International Development Association (IDA).

Do you really think this is a time to "donate" that kind of money to foreign countries where so many of our own are out of a job or are going to be out of a job?

What does the Kennedy Center have to do with this pandemic??...and there are many many other special interests trying to be added or have been added to this bill!

Honestly can you tell me why on earth the bill should include ANYTHING but relief efforts for US citizens due to the Covid19 virus?...and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??

Dan

So, I did a quick google search and found something from FOX...who I sure many of the thanks come from loyal viewers. Here is what I found. BTW if you watched Trump he on TV endorsed supporting the Kennedy Center.

"[T]o put it bluntly, the United States will not be safe from this pandemic until the world is safe from this pandemic—without widespread access to a vaccine or countermeasures, cases rebound quickly when quarantines are lifted as has been shown in Singapore and Hong Kong this week," read a letter the CGD sent to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., last week.

The funding for these three international organizations was not an 11th-hour addition; it was included in the original Republican version of the coronavirus bill."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cor...al-development

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

So, I did a quick google search and found something from FOX...who I sure many of the thanks come from loyal viewers. Here is what I found. BTW if you watched Trump he on TV endorsed supporting the Kennedy Center.

"[T]o put it bluntly, the United States will not be safe from this pandemic until the world is safe from this pandemic—without widespread access to a vaccine or countermeasures, cases rebound quickly when quarantines are lifted as has been shown in Singapore and Hong Kong this week," read a letter the CGD sent to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., last week.

The funding for these three international organizations was not an 11th-hour addition; it was included in the original Republican version of the coronavirus bill."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cor...al-development

And what is it you didn't understand about my post when I said..."and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??"

Do you really believe only the republicans are adding the "pork" to this bill?...Do you really believe "your side" has clean hands in all this?? Your not that gullible are you??

Let me ask you this...do you or do you not believe that this bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens and nothing else?... yes or no?

Dan

[ishoot308]

Here is one of the best articles I have seen regarding the so called "Stimulus Bill".

It comes from the very left leaning CNN but this journalist put his political partisanship aside to put forth this very true picture of what is occurring in DC in regards to this pork filled bill...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/opini...llo/index.html

Dan

[garysanfran]

Hit the other children with you plastic shovels...

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Here is one of the best articles I have seen regarding the so called "Stimulus Bill".

It comes from the very left leaning CNN but this journalist put his political partisanship aside to put forth this very true picture of what is occurring in DC in regards to this pork filled bill... Dan

The journalist is Mark Corallo, a 54-year old Republican who "was the spokesman for Pres Donald Trump's private legal team during the investigation into possible collusion between members of Trump's 2016 campaign and the Russian Government." ...... Wikipedia - Mark Corallo ......


......he must have wandered into that CNN building thinking it was FoxNews, sat down and started writing ........ ???

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The journalist is Mark Corallo, a 54-year old Republican who "was the spokesman for Pres Donald Trump's private legal team during the investigation into possible collusion between members of Trump's 2016 campaign and the Russian Government." ...... Wikipedia - Mark Corallo ......


......he must have wandered into that CNN building thinking it was FoxNews, sat down and started writing ........ ???

Thanks FLL for a useful and somewhat funny post!

I honestly didn't know he was a republican. I just assumed (my first mistake) that since he was writing for CNN...well you understand.

Either way he still wrote a factual, heartfelt and non partisan article on the crap going on in DC regarding the stimulus bill to which I agree fully.

Dan

[Mr. V]

I can understand the government wanting to help its distressed citizens, but why should any money go to corporations?

They don't vote, they can't contract the coronavirus.

Oh, and how in hell is the treasury going to come up with an extra two trillion dollars?

The national deficit mounts and nobody, but nobody, seems to care.

It's almost enough to make me think fondly of Bill Clinton: at least he knew what a balanced budget was.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Thanks FLL for a useful and somewhat funny post!

I honestly didn't know he was a republican. I just assumed (my first mistake) that since he was writing for CNN...well you understand.

Either way he still wrote a factual, heartfelt and non partisan article on the crap going on in DC regarding the stimulus bill to which I agree fully.

Dan

Hardly a non-partisan article. Unless you are leaning way to the right. His only non-partisan part was that both sides are true politicians doing only what is best for the party, not what is best for the country.


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[Descant]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

And what is it you didn't understand about my post when I said..."and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??"

Do you really believe only the republicans are adding the "pork" to this bill?...Do you really believe "your side" has clean hands in all this?? Your not that gullible are you??

Let me ask you this...do you or do you not believe that this bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens and nothing else?... yes or no?

Dan

I see many posts here that display a high level of emotion in their position. For those who are presenting facts, you cannot convince the emotional side with facts. Not To Worry took IShoot308's facts and retorted with a Google search that had nothing to do with the earlier response.

From an air traffic controller to a pilot under control: "I have a dog with one blue eye." FACT !

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

And what is it you didn't understand about my post when I said..."and I don't care what side is trying to push their agenda through, the bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens...why is that so wrong??"

Do you really believe only the republicans are adding the "pork" to this bill?...Do you really believe "your side" has clean hands in all this?? Your not that gullible are you??

Let me ask you this...do you or do you not believe that this bill should only include Covid19 relief efforts for US citizens and nothing else?... yes or no?

Dan

First which side am I on? I think we all know politicians are whores and do what they need to do to stay in office.. Having said that I believe they are doing the best they can in an impossible situation. To get a bill passed and to get it quickly passed had to mean both sides made concessions. I do not believe that there is any way to just isolate the USA so we are bound to look at al manners of aid that can directly and indirectly help us. I personally do not believe Trump is doing a great job...you may disagree or agree...it does not matter. I think what matters is some civility to each other as we all try to get through this. No?

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

First which side am I on? I think we all know politicians are whores and do what they need to do to stay in office.. Having said that I believe they are doing the best they can in an impossible situation. To get a bill passed and to get it quickly passed had to mean both sides made concessions. I do not believe that there is any way to just isolate the USA so we are bound to look at al manners of aid that can directly and indirectly help us. I personally do not believe Trump is doing a great job...you may disagree or agree...it does not matter. I think what matters is some civility to each other as we all try to get through this. No?

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[Flylady]

Interesting read......some people contribute facts with references and others provide statements without contect or research.

H1N1: Did you know that at the outbreak it was concluded and later proven that the majority of the US and European population already had immunities due to the flu in 1960?

The relief package is an attempt to provide employers with money to continue to pay their employees even though the company is not taking in any revenue. Non profits such as the Kennedy Center, Smithsonian, and so many others employ thousands of people. The grants are being provided so that they can continue to pay employees.

Perhaps we should not be so quick to just take sound bites and react? Afterall, those that post the oneliner sound bites that are designed to anger and divide have a bigger objective than just your sound mind and health.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Flylady

Some people contribute facts with references and others provide statements without context or research."

This was the main point of my original post. Uninformed tribal loyalty is what's going to kill us. People won't give up tribal loyalty even when their life is under direct threat. It's more important for them to win an argument and save face than to stay alive.

You can only protect yourself during a pandemic (war, natural disaster, etc.) by having the facts so you can make intelligent decisions. What is the extent of the current threat? Am I safe where I am? Is it safe to go outside? Would I be safer in another state or country? Is the threat currently increasing, decreasing, or staying the same? What do the experts predict is going to happen? What facts do they base their predictions on? What are they advising us to do?

My personal beliefs are far less useful for saving me right now than fact-based expert opinions. There is some divergence among experts, but it's not huge. There is more or less unanimous agreement that the COVID-19 crisis isn't going to be over in the next two weeks, that it's going to last many more weeks or months, that there's a good chance that it will return next season, and that it's unlikely that a vaccine will be ready in time for the next season.

In all the articles I've read that were written by experts (epidemiologists, doctors) or that quoted experts, none has ever mentioned their political affiliation. This is not about winning a political argument; it's about survival. Whether I'm a Democrat or Republican, I want to survive. For that we need the facts and expert opinions based on them.

We have no choice but to rely on experts, especially those who have closely studied the evolution of COVID-19 in other countries and can draw lessons from those countries, such as how China was able to significantly slow the spread of the virus and why Italy is on a disastrous course. There is no need to put blind trust in the experts if that makes you uncomfortable---the facts that they base their predictions and recommendations on are available online. You can either read the original scientific studies directly, or you can read summaries of them in trustworthy apolitical sources. Here's an article that explains the mathematics behind social distancing, for example: https://www.vox.com/2020/3/15/211803...ial-distancing

The question is whether people want to know the facts and whether they can understand them and make rational decisions based on them. None of those is a given. When this crisis is over it will be seen that ultimately it was human psychological tendencies that turned COVID-19 into a pandemic---the tendency to think that disasters happen to other people or other countries, the tendency to procrastinate, to hold onto beliefs that make us feel better or look better, deliberately concealing information for political reasons (China), our unwillingness to consider positions contrary to our own, and so on.

I'll gladly lose the political argument if it means I'm more likely to survive. Politicizing a virus is foolhardy.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by Major

Well I guess I’m that dolt. We need to get the economy going. I believe these government hacks as much as I believe the climate alarmists. We need to get people back to work. This is cratering the economy and jeopardizing my children’s future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're right, you are that dolt.

[upthesaukee]

Interesting that the country is supposed to be "back in business" by April 12 th, that's 15 or 16 days from now.

Per John Hopkins University real time website, the US has topped 100, 000. Just before 6pm, we were at 100,717 cases. (On March 22nd, this time of day, around 6pm, we were at 32,600).

Easter is tremendously optimistic, in my humble opinion.

Dave

[Major]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Interesting that the country is supposed to be "back in business" by April 12 th, that's 15 or 16 days from now.

Per John Hopkins University real time website, the US has topped 100, 000. Just before 6pm, we were at 100,717 cases. (On March 22nd, this time of day, around 6pm, we were at 32,600).

Easter is tremendously optimistic, in my humble opinion.

Dave

Is it really? H1N1 had 60,800,000 cases, 274,304 hospitalized persons, and 12,469 deaths. We did not collapse our economy for a far worse epidemic. Overreaction?


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Major

Is it really? H1N1 had 60,800,000 cases, 274,304 hospitalized persons, and 12,469 deaths. We did not collapse our economy for a far worse epidemic. Overreaction?


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H1N1 (your numbers) 0.02% mortality

COVID-19 (as of 27th March) 4.6% mortality (worldwide) 1.5% (US)

"But we're not finding everyone who has COVID-19! Many people will be walking around and not know they have it!"

How much under-reporting makes this not an issue for you? 2x so maybe the mortality rate is only 0.75% (2.5million expected US deaths)? 10x, getting to 0.15% (0.5million expected US deaths)?

Really, just tell us what your number is. Ignore the data, ignore what might or might not be counted. How many potentially preventable US deaths from COVID-19 is acceptable to you to prevent "crashing the economy"?

If your answer is you don't care about the number, that's fine, just have the balls to say it.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Major

Is it really? H1N1 had 60,800,000 cases, 274,304 hospitalized persons, and 12,469 deaths. We did not collapse our economy for a far worse epidemic. Overreaction?


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Sorry, fat finger syndrome... I didn’t mean to thank you. And, your SNR is really, really low.


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

You would have to be a dolt to think that his “ Easter” timeline message is anything but a calming, encouraging message to a nation of uncertainty.

good one!

[WinnisquamZ]

Believe he will ask those willing to start opening. Oh course, just as the social isolation is voluntary so won’t the opening be. The big box stores and major chains will open. Small restaurants will with reduced hours and wider seating areas.


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[Major]

We don’t have a firm grasp on the denominator. Let’s see where things shake out.


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[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Major

We don’t have a firm grasp on the denominator. Let’s se where things shake out.


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Can’t agree more.


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Can’t agree more.


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Same question. What are your numbers? Should all restrictions be lifted immediately in your opinion? How do we deal with it when we see how it shakes out and maybe it turns out that millions of Americans will die, and we're now too late to stop it?

[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Major

We don’t have a firm grasp on the denominator. Let’s se where things shake out.


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Surely you must have an opinion, or an approach?

Would you prefer to lift all restrictions immediately until we have a firmer grasp on the lethality? How many tests, positive cases and deaths would be enough for you to consider it worse than H1N1 and worth shutting down the economy to save lives?

[Major]

I would have handled this the same way we handled the much worse H1N1 epidemic. We have completely overreacted.


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Major

I would have handled this the same way we handled the much worse H1N1 epidemic. We have completely overreacted.


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You say we have overreacted, but when would you react?

You say we have overreacted, would you advocate returning to normal tomorrow?

[Major]

Originally Posted by StevenGilford

You say we have overreacted, but when would you react?

You say we have overreacted, would you advocate returning to normal tomorrow?

I would have declared a national emergency after 1500 like Obama did with the H1N1. I didn’t agree with him much but I thought he handled the H1N1 expertly. He was the best, right?


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Major

I would have declared a national emergency after 1500 like Obama did with the H1N1. I didn’t agree with him much but I thought he handled the H1N1 expertly. He was the best, right?


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We hit 1500 deaths today

And this is despite the various State stay-at-home orders, and Trumps perfect 'early action' on shutting down travel from China.

So what's next? You would declare a state of emergency tonight, and then...?

[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Major

I would have declared a national emergency after 1500 like Obama did with the H1N1. I didn’t agree with him much but I thought he handled the H1N1 expertly. He was the best, right?


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Also, Obama's declaration of a National Emergency came after 6 months and over 1000 deaths.

COVID-19 has now killed 1500 in 2 months (and is rising exponentially).

But COVID-19 is not more serious than H1N1?

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Major

I would have handled this the same way we handled the much worse H1N1 epidemic. We have completely overreacted.


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I don’t believe you when you say you know math and you know science. It’s impossible to compare a pandemic which is over and one that is ongoing.


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[WinnisquamZ]

We deal in data and facts, not projections. The facts are telling those in charge that this event will level out and allow us to create a “soft open” around Easter. Then again, if you want to remain home, it is your choose. FYI, my daughter has a PHD from ND in micro biology and I am married to a analytical chemist. I follow their lead when it involves data


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

We deal in data and facts, not projections. The facts are telling those in charge that this event will level out and allow us to create a “soft open” around Easter.

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That's great to hear! Please can you share the data and facts that support a "soft open" around Easter?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

We deal in data and facts, not projections. The facts are telling those in charge that this event will level out and allow us to create a “soft open” around Easter. Then again, if you want to remain home, it is your choose. FYI, my daughter has a PHD from ND in micro biology and I am married to a analytical chemist. I follow their lead when it involves data


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Not projections? Your daughter is a microbiologist and she doesn't believe viruses expand or think we can predict the life of an organism?
Better ask her again

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

We deal in data and facts, not projections. The facts are telling those in charge that this event will level out and allow us to create a “soft open” around Easter. Then again, if you want to remain home, it is your choose. FYI, my daughter has a PHD from ND in micro biology and I am married to a analytical chemist. I follow their lead when it involves data


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2 minutes before the Titanic met the ice berg the data & facts were the ship was seaworthy & the passengers safe. That was during a calculated risk to take a northern pass and was a winnable gamble though one that was lost.

This is not that. We have hit the iceberg, the hold is filling with water, the ship is listing into ice-freezing water.

We are going to lose up to 30k, or more, in April alone.

According to your way of thinking if you jumped off a 10 story building you would be thinking the first 9 floors were ok, maybe this will work out.... because why trust projections?

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

2 minutes before the Titanic met the ice berg the data & facts were the ship was seaworthy & the passengers safe. That was during a calculated risk to take a northern pass and was a winnable gamble though one that was lost.

This is not that. We have hit the iceberg, the hold is filling with water, the ship is listing into ice-freezing water.

We are going to lose up to 30k, or more, in April alone.

According to your way of thinking if you jumped off a 10 story building you would be thinking the first 9 floors were ok, maybe this will work out.... because why trust projections?

Wow! That’s a reach. What of the projections made by our military at the time our boys would land at the beaches of Europe? They knew many were not coming home but they still went.


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[4 for Boating]

I guess time will tell what the final numbers show.
Most curves predict this peaking in mid-April but no one seems to know for sure.

To shift gears a bit - it is true slowing the cases // flattening the curve is to allow the medical system in the US to not be overwhelmed.

Vaccine-wise > they say they are working on one (which is great) but that will be very interesting as today we have a lot people that refuse vaccines that have been around for many, many, many years. Here comes one developed in 6 to 10 months and would be brand new. Who wants to be first in line? Going to be very hard to get young people to want that.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

I guess time will tell what the final numbers show.

Most curves predict this peaking in mid-April but no one seems to know for sure.

To shift gears a bit - it is true slowing the cases // flattening the curve is to allow the medical system in the US to not be overwhelmed.

Vaccine-wise > they say they are working on one (which is great) but that will be very interesting as today we have a lot people that refuse vaccines that have been around for many, many, many years. Here comes one developed in 6 to 10 months and would be brand new. Who wants to be first in line? Going to be very hard to get young people to want that.

Agree. Vaccines won’t be available till the fall hopefully. Until then, those at risk must be careful. But with that said, the country must get back to work


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

But with that said, the country must get back to work

...but only when the experts and the data show that it's safe, right?

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Wow! That’s a reach. What of the projections made by our military at the time our boys would land at the beaches of Europe? They knew many were not coming home but they still went.


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Not a reach. Its the conservative end of the range.

What exactly is your point about comparing military projections of the invasion of Europe to the track of projected covid deaths. I am sure there was supposed to be a point. I just can't find it.

[WinnisquamZ]

This virus is going to be around for years. As many have said the shelter in place allows the medical community to get up to speed and put procedures in place on how to handle the infected. If you think you can avoid it you are more miss informed then you are showing here. If you are allergic to something you take precautions. How is this different?


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

This virus is going to be around for years. As many have said the shelter in place allows the medical community to get up to speed and put procedures in place on how to handle the infected. If you think you can avoid it you are more miss informed then you are showing here. If you are allergic to something you take precautions. How is this different?


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I'm not sure who you are suggesting said that we can avoid COVID-19, but I don't see that in any responses.

It sounds like you agree that stay at home measures and flattening the curve is important to avoid overwhelming our medical facilities and to give us time to develop vaccines/treatments? So that if/when it resurges, we can deal with it just like the regular flu?

But please can you share the data that shows we can safely "soft open" by Easter?

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by StevenGilford

I'm not sure who you are suggesting said that we can avoid COVID-19, but I don't see that in any responses.

It sounds like you agree that stay at home measures and flattening the curve is important to avoid overwhelming our medical facilities and to give us time to develop vaccines/treatments? So that if/when it resurges, we can deal with it just like the regular flu?

But please can you share the data that shows we can safely "soft open" by Easter?

I do enjoy watching the presidents daily press conference. The team of experts inform the country of their progress against this virus and discuss the data available at that time. You should put aside your hatred and listen. Very informative


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

I do enjoy watching the presidents daily press conference. The team of experts inform the country of their progress against this virus and discuss the data available at that time. You should put aside your hatred and listen. Very informative


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I listen every day.

I heard Trump say he thinks we can open by Easter because it's a "beautiful day".

In comparison, Dr Anthony Fauci (the actual expert on the briefing team) says "“You’ve got to be realistic, and you’ve got to understand that you don’t make the timeline, the virus makes the timeline. So you’ve got to respond to what you see happen, and if you keep seeing this acceleration, it doesn’t matter what you say, one week, two weeks, three weeks, you’ve got to go with what the situation on the ground is”

I have not seen any data that suggests that Easter is remotely feasible.

So if you are saying you base your decisions on data, why do you take Trump's word over the actual experts?

I can almost get on board with Major's assertion that Trumps claim is just an aspirational date to inspire calm and confidence. I completely disagree with him, and think Trump is simply delusional and offering up dangerous misinformation. But at least he isn't claiming that the Easter timeline is based on any actual data, or endorsed by experts.

[WinnisquamZ]

For those looking for “data” here is the latest



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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

For those looking for “data” here is the latest
Attachment 15749


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Dated March 27th, stating that Dr Fauci is "backtracking", yet the editorial they are referencing is a month old!

OANN say "Meanwhile, Fauci’s backtracking seemed to give credence to some members of the GOP, who have argued the media is over-sensationalizing how lethal the virus is. It also came after the president hinted he may break with experts, specifically regarding opening the economy back up by Easter."

No, it did not come after the President started talking about opening up at Easter. It came on Feb 28th. It was also speculative that it "may" not be that lethal.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu, even if the mortality rate drops far below the World Health Organization’s current estimate of 3.4%."

I would suggest not relying on OANN for truthfulness.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by StevenGilford

Dated March 27th, stating that Dr Fauci is "backtracking", yet the editorial they are referencing is a month old!

OANN say "Meanwhile, Fauci’s backtracking seemed to give credence to some members of the GOP, who have argued the media is over-sensationalizing how lethal the virus is. It also came after the president hinted he may break with experts, specifically regarding opening the economy back up by Easter."

No, it did not come after the President started talking about opening up at Easter. It came on Feb 28th. It was also speculative that it "may" not be that lethal.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu, even if the mortality rate drops far below the World Health Organization’s current estimate of 3.4%."

I would suggest not relying on OANN for truthfulness.

Did u miss the information published in the New England journal of medicine?


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Did u miss the information published in the New England journal of medicine?


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That's the information from an Editorial first published on February 28th.

Here is the PDF

It was included in the NEJM on March 26th but it says right in the article "This editorial was published on February 28, 2020, at NEJM.org"

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

For those looking for “data” here is the latest
Attachment 15749


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OAN??? Really??? Please stop. These folks make Fox News look like CNN. If this is where you get your news I suspect you are hoping for an Easter deadline so you can see the Easter Bunny.


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[WinnisquamZ]

Solid discussion tonight. Good night


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Solid discussion tonight. Good night


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Have a good night!

[ApS]

The majority of our workforce is the least affected.

[Major]

Originally Posted by ApS

The majority of our workforce is the least affected.

And that’s the point. A large proportion of our workforce is prohibited from making a living while an infinitesimally small percentage of our total population is infected with the Chinese coronavirus. During the last 3 months, while we lost a little over 1,000 Americans to the Chinese coronavirus, we have lost -

5000 due to the flu (100,000 hospitalized)
6000 due to car accidents (750,000 injured)
150,000 due to cancer primarily from smoking yet we allow tobacco products
150,000 due to heart disease
20,000 due to alcoholism yet we sell alcohol
10,000 due to opioid overdose yet we have free needle exchange

How difficult is it to see that we may have overreacted to this particular risk. Like ApS stated all of us are affected whether we like it or not.


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Major

And that’s the point. A large proportion of our workforce is prohibited from making a living while an infinitesimally small percentage of our total population is infected with the Chinese coronavirus. During the last 3 months, while we lost a little over 1,000 Americans to the Chinese coronavirus, we have lost -

5000 due to the flu (100,000 hospitalized)
6000 due to car accidents (750,000 injured)
150,000 due to cancer primarily from smoking yet we allow tobacco products
150,000 due to heart disease
20,000 due to alcoholism yet we sell alcohol
10,000 due to opioid overdose yet we have free needle exchange

How difficult is it to see that we may have overreacted to this particular risk. Like ApS stated all of us are affected whether we like it or not.


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None of those deaths are exponentially rising.

You say we have overreacted but we hit the point that you would react at all yesterday (3 times quicker than H1N1), and that’s despite the measures put in place due to the “overreaction”.

Also despite the “overreaction” every ‘curve’ in the US is still on an upwards trajectory.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Major

And that’s the point. A large proportion of our workforce is prohibited from making a living while an infinitesimally small percentage of our total population is infected with the Chinese coronavirus. During the last 3 months, while we lost a little over 1,000 Americans to the Chinese coronavirus, we have lost -

5000 due to the flu (100,000 hospitalized)
6000 due to car accidents (750,000 injured)
150,000 due to cancer primarily from smoking yet we allow tobacco products
150,000 due to heart disease
20,000 due to alcoholism yet we sell alcohol
10,000 due to opioid overdose yet we have free needle exchange

How difficult is it to see that we may have overreacted to this particular risk. Like ApS stated all of us are affected whether we like it or not.


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Thanks Major. The liberal fear-mongers hate the facts. All I can picture is the scene from the Wizard of Oz when the Wicked Witch has water dumped on her. “I’m melting, I’m melting”!!! Facts are to liberals, as water was to the witch.

[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Thanks Major. The liberal fear-mongers hate the facts. All I can picture is the scene from the Wizard of Oz when the Wicked Witch has water dumped on her. “I’m melting, I’m melting”!!! Facts are to liberals, as water was to the witch.

Great point! Check out these Liberal Fear-Mongers at the CDC and their Goddamned expert opinions under-lied with expert reasoning and facts!

“More cases of COVID-19 are likely to be identified in the United States in the coming days, including more instances of community spread. CDC expects that widespread transmission of COVID-19 in the United States will occur. In the coming months, most of the U.S. population will be exposed to this virus.

Widespread transmission of COVID-19 could translate into large numbers of people needing medical care at the same time. Schools, childcare centers, and workplaces, may experience more absenteeism. Mass gatherings may be sparsely attended or postponed. Public health and healthcare systems may become overloaded, with elevated rates of hospitalizations and deaths. Other critical infrastructure, such as law enforcement, emergency medical services, and sectors of the transportation industry may also be affected. Healthcare providers and hospitals may be overwhelmed. At this time, there is no vaccine to protect against COVID-19 and no medications approved to treat it. Nonpharmaceutical interventions will be the most important response strategy to try to delay the spread of the virus and reduce the impact of disease.”

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by StevenGilford

Great point! Check out these Liberal Fear-Mongers at the CDC and their Goddamned expert opinions under-lied with expert reasoning and facts!

“More cases of COVID-19 are likely to be identified in the United States in the coming days, including more instances of community spread. CDC expects that widespread transmission of COVID-19 in the United States will occur. In the coming months, most of the U.S. population will be exposed to this virus.

Widespread transmission of COVID-19 could translate into large numbers of people needing medical care at the same time. Schools, childcare centers, and workplaces, may experience more absenteeism. Mass gatherings may be sparsely attended or postponed. Public health and healthcare systems may become overloaded, with elevated rates of hospitalizations and deaths. Other critical infrastructure, such as law enforcement, emergency medical services, and sectors of the transportation industry may also be affected. Healthcare providers and hospitals may be overwhelmed. At this time, there is no vaccine to protect against COVID-19 and no medications approved to treat it. Nonpharmaceutical interventions will be the most important response strategy to try to delay the spread of the virus and reduce the impact of disease.”

GOOD the quicker everyone is exposed to this the quicker we have a large number of people with a natural immunity to this thing and be done with it.

All the side effects as described are already happening anyways as mandated by the government to shutdown or severely cripple businesses, movement of people and social gatherings.

Finally and more importantly these "experts" are operating on opinions that vary widely and the only factual data they have to work with is what numbers are known at the moment, that is number of confirmed infections and deaths. THIS IS A PARTIAL PICTURE of the actual full story. Even these "experts" acknowledge the hard numbers as reported now representing infections may be as little as 12% of the actual number. So based on that the US currently has 104K confirmed cases, lets say this number really is only 12% that would indicate that over 1,000,000 have been exposed. With a total of 1693 deaths this thing is no more deadly in fact less deadly than any other variation of the flu.

So who's "facts" and "numbers" are right? Well I guess that all comes down to how you assemble the "facts" and "opinions" now doesn't it?!?

Whole thing is turning hysterically comical. I think half the population is scared of their own shadow for cripes sake.

[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

GOOD the quicker everyone is exposed to this the quicker we have a large number of people with a natural immunity to this thing and be done with it.

"Yay! Let's overwhelm the healthcare system and ensure the maximum number of people die so that we can get back to making money!"

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Finally and more importantly these "experts" are operating on opinions that vary widely and the only factual data they have to work with is what numbers are known at the moment, that is number of confirmed infections and deaths. THIS IS A PARTIAL PICTURE of the actual full story. Even these "experts" acknowledge the hard numbers as reported now representing infections may be as little as 12% of the actual number. So based on that the US currently has 104K confirmed cases, lets say this number really is only 12% that would indicate that over 1,000,000 have been exposed. With a total of 1693 deaths this thing is no more deadly in fact less deadly than any other variation of the flu.

So who's "facts" and "numbers" are right? Well I guess that all comes down to how you assemble the "facts" and "opinions" now doesn't it?!?

"These experts are only drawing the best conclusions they can from an incomplete set of data by using their extensive judgement and experience. There are differing projections but they all currently show that the worst is yet to come and while the measures we are currently taking are having an effect, we don't have anywhere in the country that has reach the 'apex' of the curve, and indeed other hotspots seem to be breaking out. FAKE NEWS!

But dear leader Trump thinks we can open up by Easter based on his gut feeling and the fact that Easter is a 'beautiful day'. NOW THERE'S SOME ANALYSIS I CAN GET ON BOARD WITH!"

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by StevenGilford

But dear leader Trump thinks we can open up by Easter based on his gut feeling and the fact that Easter is a 'beautiful day'. NOW THERE'S SOME ANALYSIS I CAN GET ON BOARD WITH!"

But he's trying to make us all feel better, don't you feel better now?

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

GOOD the quicker everyone is exposed to this the quicker we have a large number of people with a natural immunity to this thing and be done with it.

All the side effects as described are already happening anyways as mandated by the government to shutdown or severely cripple businesses, movement of people and social gatherings.

Finally and more importantly these "experts" are operating on opinions that vary widely and the only factual data they have to work with is what numbers are known at the moment, that is number of confirmed infections and deaths. THIS IS A PARTIAL PICTURE of the actual full story. Even these "experts" acknowledge the hard numbers as reported now representing infections may be as little as 12% of the actual number. So based on that the US currently has 104K confirmed cases, lets say this number really is only 12% that would indicate that over 1,000,000 have been exposed. With a total of 1693 deaths this thing is no more deadly in fact less deadly than any other variation of the flu.

So who's "facts" and "numbers" are right? Well I guess that all comes down to how you assemble the "facts" and "opinions" now doesn't it?!?

Whole thing is turning hysterically comical. I think half the population is scared of their own shadow for cripes sake.

Every expert that I have heard says this far more deadly than the flu. Where did you get your "facts" from... because you do not have any basis to make that fake claim.

I am sure the current infection and death rate are very, very under counted. Many more are already infected and many have died that have not been counted. Can I prove that? Nope. But I can prove that people have had it but not been tested and I can logically infer that people who die that were not tested do not show up as a stat.

I cannot help wondering what mental mindset a person has to have that it is important to their own psyche to deny the obvious. I know Major has already confessed to being a dolt, so at least I understand him.

[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

With a total of 1693 deaths this thing is no more deadly in fact less deadly than any other variation of the flu.

This year the flu has killed between 139 and 358 per day.

On Friday COVID-19 killed 332 people in a single day, and this number is climbing daily.

[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by StevenGilford

This year the flu has killed between 139 and 358 per day.

On Friday COVID-19 killed 332 people in a single day, and this number is climbing daily.

Almost 500 deaths today

I hope everyone now agrees that COVID-19 is worse than the regular flu. It's now just a case of narrowing in on just how much worse it is.

The World Health Organization is reporting a mortality rate of 4.6% based on worldwide confirmed positives and deaths. We know this is likely to be the extreme upper bound of the mortality rate due to under reporting and lack of testing.

In the US the current mortality rate based on known infections is 1.9%, with the same caveats as above.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu" which would be at least a 1% mortality rate.

Still think we are overreacting?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by StevenGilford

Almost 500 deaths today

I hope everyone now agrees that COVID-19 is worse than the regular flu. It's now just a case of narrowing in on just how much worse it is.

The World Health Organization is reporting a mortality rate of 4.6% based on worldwide confirmed positives and deaths. We know this is likely to be the extreme upper bound of the mortality rate due to under reporting and lack of testing.

In the US the current mortality rate based on known infections is 1.9%, with the same caveats as above.

On Wednesday March 11th, Fauci told the House Oversight and Reform Committee "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu" which would be at least a 1% mortality rate.

Still think we are overreacting?

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

You're happy for 3.6million or more Americans to needlessly die? It's fine if you do, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I find it abhorrent, but it's fine.

[Major]

Originally Posted by StevenGilford

You're happy for 3.6million or more Americans to needlessly die? It's fine if you do, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I find it abhorrent, but it's fine.

Fake news.


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[StevenGilford]

Originally Posted by Major

Fake news.


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Oh dear. Oh well. I tried but with people like you there is no reasoning. Enjoy your Fox News / OANN bubble, and your "I got mines, screw everyone else" attitude.

[BrownstoneNorth]

Originally Posted by StevenGilford

Oh dear. Oh well. I tried but with people like you there is no reasoning. Enjoy your Fox News / OANN bubble, and your "I got mines, screw everyone else" attitude.

Right, no point at all.

Author Rex Stout's detective Nero Wolfe replying to a client in awe of his genius who asked if there's *anything* he can't do:

“Yes, madame, there is. I couldn't put sense into a fool's brain if I tried.”

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

The worst evil I can think of at the moment is dying alone on a cot in a makeshift "hospital" in a gymnasium because there's no ventilator that could save my life . . . because my government failed to prepare for a pandemic ages ago, when it knew it was unprepared and knew that a pandemic was inevitable at some point, and failed to take timely action when it was clear that a pandemic was developing.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

You go first!


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[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

“Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.“ General John Stark.

It would be my position that Stark was referring to the inhumanities between people as opposed to a pandemic.

Nice try though.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

It would be my position that Stark was referring to the inhumanities between people as opposed to a pandemic.

Nice try though.

Thanks to the Constitution, you are free to express your opinion as you have here. My opinion may vary.