Buying our first boat!!

Toytime · 04-05-2006, 07:17 PM

Hello all!!...been lurking here for a while..sitting back..listening..learning..now I'm ready to seek advice. My wife and I are in our early 50's..mortgage is paid off...daughters are all educated and degreed...and finally..we actually have something known as excess capital we can invest in items that we CHOOSE to rather than HAVE to...YIPPEE!!..

Still young enough to have some "toys"..{hence the nickname of Toytime} so we want to buy our first boat. We went to Winnisquam Marine this past Saturday and test drove the new four winns 200 signature.. Awesome!!..

Our daughters went with us and I don't think I could have wiped the smiles off their faces with a power trowel..They absolutely loved it!!

Ahh..but here is the rub..was ready to bargain with the salesman (Very nice fella} but...was told that there is no negotiating on the price..the customer pays the price listed..period. I was rather shocked to say the least.. Now mind you, I am not cheap..more than willing to pay a fair price for a quality product, however I am used to negotiating what I feel is a fair price.

My question to any who may answer is this. Is this a common practice in purchasing a boat? A customer pays the listed price, no negotiating whatsoever, or is this unique to Winnisquam Marine only and other Marinas will talk turkey with a customer?

We are ready to buy cuz summer is about upon us and we want to be ready..but..I want to make sure we are not being financially abused..

Thanks to all who may offer us guidance..

Aquadeziac · 04-05-2006, 07:32 PM

Four Winns are a super boat, I owned two of them, both bought from Winnisquam Marine. I found that their price on the boat is somewhat already discounted.....compare their price to the exact same boat at another Four Winns dealer. (You gotta compare apples and apples) At the time I compared their prices to Melvin Village. Lower by thousands. I always got outstanding treatment there. Ed & Mark run a superb outfit. They bend over backwards for all their customers. Aftersales service says a lot about a buisness.

father nukes kid · 04-05-2006, 09:58 PM

I sell boats, Tahoe Sportboats. Tahoe is part of Tracker Boats. This is the only boat line that sells their boats at factory direct national pricing. We can't dicker price. All the other brands that I see, working at boat shows, can have different prices for the same product. My research "playing customer" found a $4000.00 difference in one boat. That to me is huge. On the other hand, some dealers actually price the boat lower to start with. Especially if it has been on their floorplan for too long. You may have a great deal. You should price the boat at another dealer to have a better gauge.
Good luck

jrc · 04-05-2006, 10:54 PM

there's always a limit. Go to www.fourwinns.com and you can get the list price for the boat you looked at. Depending on popularity, dealership, season, etc, you should be able to get 10% to 30% off the list. I know that's a big range but it's hard to get any closer. Right now the dealers smell spring and that means buyers and that means higher prices. A 20' boat is a popular first boat and the dealer is not worried about gettting stuck with it.

You can and should ask about discounts on accessories, and future service to help the bottom line. Some will, some won't, it doesn't hurt to ask.

You may want to glance through this thread. He spent some time looking at similiar boats.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...22444#poststop

BTW I bought a new boat last fall and paid pretty close to the dealer's first price. But it was a left-over so the dealer had already put in a big discount.

Woodsy · 04-06-2006, 06:35 AM

Toytime,

Definitely do some more research. 4Winns are nice, but to be honest there are alot of nice boats in that size/price range. Look at used boat values on NADA and BUC so you can get an idea of how much depreciation the model you are looking at is subject to. Some brands of boats depreciate a lot more than others. Depreciation is a KILLER when it comes to boats.

Your best bet to get a good deal was at the boat show in february. As jrc stated, its spring and that is a popular boat size. If its your first boat, you might want to look into a low hour used boat with some warranty left. It might just be a better bang for the buck.

Don't forget to get your Safe Boater Certificate!

Woodsy

Merrymeeting · 04-06-2006, 08:01 AM

Toytime,

I would echo the earlier comments on Winnisquam. I actually prefer their no-dickering, no-games policy.

I bought a new Four Winns from them in 04. Like others, I researched other marinas and prices (quite a few). You will find that Winnisquam is among the lowest if not the lowest. More importantly, you will find that Ed and Co strongly stand behind their products and really know the meaning of customer service.

FWIW, I know of others, including extended family members, who would say the same.

Other than being a happy customer, I have no connection to Winnisquam Marine, nor any other benefit from this testimonial. If you would like more information, feel free to drop me an email or PM.

EllyPoinster · 04-06-2006, 08:33 AM

While my purchase of a new 2002 Four Winns included a trade-in, Melvin Village Marina beat Winnisquam's price by about $400. All things being equal, I would have bought at Winnisquam, but I wasn't going to leave the money on the table. In my dealings with them I found both dealerships to be honest and professional operations. I have nothing bad to say about either one and I have been VERY pleased with the boat.

ThePlut · 04-06-2006, 10:15 AM

Shopping around is always a fair and reasonable thing to do. And I strongly believe that a thing (boat, car, tv, washer and dryer) is only worth what you are willing to pay for it. If you like the Four Winns, try other Four Winns dealers, see what they are willing to do on the same boat. If this dealer has a no negotiation policy, then he either believes his price is fair (which it may be) or believes he'll sell it (if not to you, to someone else) eventually no matter what. Also, keep in mind customer service as well, saving some $$ on the boat won't be worth it if you have to suffer bad service.

Also, and Four Winns is a great product, but be sure demo other boats in that size as well (Crownline, Sea Ray, Bryant, Cobalt, etc...). Especially if you have only demo'ed the one. Run away from any dealer that won't water test the boat for you.

I work part time for a boat dealer and I can tell you first hand, everything is negotiable, anything else is a sales tactic. And just because a boat has a higher MSRP, doesn't mean that the actual deal won't end up below a lower MSRP priced brand. Don't compare on MSRP, go in, demo what you want and get an offer on the boat you want. Don't be afraid to tell dealers what other boats you are looking at either, that's a motivator for many.

I also echo what others have said, 20' is a popular size and many are traded in for larger sizes in the fall and early spring, so check around local dealers. I know the dealer I work for had 4 20' ers traded in, '05s and '04s and sold them ALL at the Feb boat show for GREAT deals...

Dave R · 04-06-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePlut

I also echo what others have said, 20' is a popular size and many are traded in for larger sizes in the fall and early spring, so check around local dealers. I know the dealer I work for had 4 20' ers traded in, '05s and '04s and sold them ALL at the Feb boat show for GREAT deals...

I hear he had a cream puff 2005 burgandy 200...

Dave R · 04-06-2006, 10:30 AM

Toytime,

Welcome! Congrats on deciding to become boaters. It's a wonderful lifestyle.

Random advice: If you plan to boat on Winnipesaukee, be sure to get a chart. It's a very tough place to navigate without one. I dropped a bit more money on a GPS chart plotter and think it's the best boating investment I have ever made. Get certified, shop around, and test drive more boats (and do so in heavy chop, this is very important). Shopping is fun. Set aside money for accessories like two anchors, comfy PFDs, boat hook, docklines, fenders etc. Get a bimini top with the boat you buy. Being in the sun all day can get old.

Be sure to try a Regal too. I've had two now and really like them.

ThePlut · 04-06-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

I hear he had a cream puff 2005 burgandy 200...

Actually, he had 3! (two without the boot stripe though...).

CHSLTD · 04-06-2006, 11:50 AM

My wife and I purchased a 2005 225 Sundowner from Winnisquam Marine last summer. Our salesman was Ryan Crawford and we were very happy with the no hassle pricing (lowest around) and the amazing service. Sometimes there is more to buying a boat than price, Winnisquam Marine shows it's customers that their commitment to them is 110%. Not to mention the great product and price. If it sounds like I am happy with our experience you are right...We would strongly recommend Winnisquam Marine to you as I have to others.

fasttech · 04-06-2006, 02:41 PM

Check out Irwin Marine they have about 20 used 20 footers on their web site and you can not get better service anywhere on the lake unless you go to their Alton store on 28A. Good Luck

PaulS · 04-07-2006, 10:13 AM

I've bought 2 boats from Winnisquam Marine. No nonsense, no hassling, great price.

GTO · 04-07-2006, 10:29 AM

If your stuck on just the Four Winns, fine. But I reccommend you shop around for boats of different makes. If your stuck on the 20 ft, compare other makes in the same length. Some boats are heavier than others and weight makes a big difference on a rough day on the lake.
I have a 23 ft Searay bowrider which is great for me on the big lake.

Dave R · 04-07-2006, 12:54 PM

if you want to visit a great site solely for boating, check out www.boatingabc.com Lots of Winnipesaukee folks there and scads of great boating info as well.

Good N' You? · 04-07-2006, 07:19 PM

Welcome Toytime!
Good luck with your new boat purchase. Four Winns make a great boat! I sent you a PM, but thought others might want to hear what I had to say about my boat. Here is the link to the Yamaha site:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/boat/pro...53/0/home.aspx

I think this boat fits these waters soooo well. The jet drive has so many benefits. Only 18" of draft and less at plane. You simply can go where others can't. And if you were to hit, for example a rock, You won't rip out your out drive, or your prop.
Take one of these boats for a demo and you'll be surprised by this boat. At the least.
Just my opinion.

Dave R · 04-07-2006, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good N' You?

Welcome Toytime!
Good luck with your new boat purchase. Four Winns make a great boat! I sent you a PM, but thought others might want to hear what I had to say about my boat. Here is the link to the Yamaha site:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/boat/pro...53/0/home.aspx

I think this boat fits these waters soooo well. The jet drive has so many benefits. Only 18" of draft and less at plane. You simply can go where others can't. And if you were to hit, for example a rock, You won't rip out your out drive, or your prop.
Take one of these boats for a demo and you'll be surprised by this boat. At the least.
Just my opinion.

Those are really nice. I think the transom treatment is the best of any boat that size.

04-05-2006, 07:17 PM	#1
Toytime Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Buying our first boat!! Hello all!!...been lurking here for a while..sitting back..listening..learning..now I'm ready to seek advice. My wife and I are in our early 50's..mortgage is paid off...daughters are all educated and degreed...and finally..we actually have something known as excess capital we can invest in items that we CHOOSE to rather than HAVE to...YIPPEE!!.. Still young enough to have some "toys"..{hence the nickname of Toytime} so we want to buy our first boat. We went to Winnisquam Marine this past Saturday and test drove the new four winns 200 signature.. Awesome!!.. Our daughters went with us and I don't think I could have wiped the smiles off their faces with a power trowel..They absolutely loved it!! Ahh..but here is the rub..was ready to bargain with the salesman (Very nice fella} but...was told that there is no negotiating on the price..the customer pays the price listed..period. I was rather shocked to say the least.. Now mind you, I am not cheap..more than willing to pay a fair price for a quality product, however I am used to negotiating what I feel is a fair price. My question to any who may answer is this. Is this a common practice in purchasing a boat? A customer pays the listed price, no negotiating whatsoever, or is this unique to Winnisquam Marine only and other Marinas will talk turkey with a customer? We are ready to buy cuz summer is about upon us and we want to be ready..but..I want to make sure we are not being financially abused.. Thanks to all who may offer us guidance..

04-05-2006, 07:32 PM	#2
Aquadeziac Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Concord NH Posts: 239 Thanks: 19 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Four Winns are a super boat, I owned two of them, both bought from Winnisquam Marine. I found that their price on the boat is somewhat already discounted.....compare their price to the exact same boat at another Four Winns dealer. (You gotta compare apples and apples) At the time I compared their prices to Melvin Village. Lower by thousands. I always got outstanding treatment there. Ed & Mark run a superb outfit. They bend over backwards for all their customers. Aftersales service says a lot about a buisness. __________________ "He who dies with the most toys wins"

04-05-2006, 09:58 PM	#3
father nukes kid Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: seacoast nh Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	buying a boat I sell boats, Tahoe Sportboats. Tahoe is part of Tracker Boats. This is the only boat line that sells their boats at factory direct national pricing. We can't dicker price. All the other brands that I see, working at boat shows, can have different prices for the same product. My research "playing customer" found a $4000.00 difference in one boat. That to me is huge. On the other hand, some dealers actually price the boat lower to start with. Especially if it has been on their floorplan for too long. You may have a great deal. You should price the boat at another dealer to have a better gauge. Good luck

04-05-2006, 10:54 PM	#4
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Everything is negotiable but there's always a limit. Go to www.fourwinns.com and you can get the list price for the boat you looked at. Depending on popularity, dealership, season, etc, you should be able to get 10% to 30% off the list. I know that's a big range but it's hard to get any closer. Right now the dealers smell spring and that means buyers and that means higher prices. A 20' boat is a popular first boat and the dealer is not worried about gettting stuck with it. You can and should ask about discounts on accessories, and future service to help the bottom line. Some will, some won't, it doesn't hurt to ask. You may want to glance through this thread. He spent some time looking at similiar boats. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...22444#poststop BTW I bought a new boat last fall and paid pretty close to the dealer's first price. But it was a left-over so the dealer had already put in a big discount.

04-06-2006, 06:35 AM	#5
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,965 Thanks: 80 Thanked 979 Times in 440 Posts	Toytime, Definitely do some more research. 4Winns are nice, but to be honest there are alot of nice boats in that size/price range. Look at used boat values on NADA and BUC so you can get an idea of how much depreciation the model you are looking at is subject to. Some brands of boats depreciate a lot more than others. Depreciation is a KILLER when it comes to boats. Your best bet to get a good deal was at the boat show in february. As jrc stated, its spring and that is a popular boat size. If its your first boat, you might want to look into a low hour used boat with some warranty left. It might just be a better bang for the buck. Don't forget to get your Safe Boater Certificate! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-06-2006, 08:01 AM	#6
Merrymeeting Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Merrymeeting Lake, New Durham Posts: 2,226 Thanks: 302 Thanked 800 Times in 368 Posts	Toytime, I would echo the earlier comments on Winnisquam. I actually prefer their no-dickering, no-games policy. I bought a new Four Winns from them in 04. Like others, I researched other marinas and prices (quite a few). You will find that Winnisquam is among the lowest if not the lowest. More importantly, you will find that Ed and Co strongly stand behind their products and really know the meaning of customer service. FWIW, I know of others, including extended family members, who would say the same. Other than being a happy customer, I have no connection to Winnisquam Marine, nor any other benefit from this testimonial. If you would like more information, feel free to drop me an email or PM.

04-06-2006, 08:33 AM	#7
EllyPoinster Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 160 Thanks: 13 Thanked 25 Times in 20 Posts	You Should Check With Melvin Village Marina While my purchase of a new 2002 Four Winns included a trade-in, Melvin Village Marina beat Winnisquam's price by about $400. All things being equal, I would have bought at Winnisquam, but I wasn't going to leave the money on the table. In my dealings with them I found both dealerships to be honest and professional operations. I have nothing bad to say about either one and I have been VERY pleased with the boat.

04-06-2006, 10:15 AM	#8
ThePlut Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 150 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts	Negotiable Shopping around is always a fair and reasonable thing to do. And I strongly believe that a thing (boat, car, tv, washer and dryer) is only worth what you are willing to pay for it. If you like the Four Winns, try other Four Winns dealers, see what they are willing to do on the same boat. If this dealer has a no negotiation policy, then he either believes his price is fair (which it may be) or believes he'll sell it (if not to you, to someone else) eventually no matter what. Also, keep in mind customer service as well, saving some $$ on the boat won't be worth it if you have to suffer bad service. Also, and Four Winns is a great product, but be sure demo other boats in that size as well (Crownline, Sea Ray, Bryant, Cobalt, etc...). Especially if you have only demo'ed the one. Run away from any dealer that won't water test the boat for you. I work part time for a boat dealer and I can tell you first hand, everything is negotiable, anything else is a sales tactic. And just because a boat has a higher MSRP, doesn't mean that the actual deal won't end up below a lower MSRP priced brand. Don't compare on MSRP, go in, demo what you want and get an offer on the boat you want. Don't be afraid to tell dealers what other boats you are looking at either, that's a motivator for many. I also echo what others have said, 20' is a popular size and many are traded in for larger sizes in the fall and early spring, so check around local dealers. I know the dealer I work for had 4 20' ers traded in, '05s and '04s and sold them ALL at the Feb boat show for GREAT deals...

04-06-2006, 10:30 AM	#10
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,984 Thanks: 246 Thanked 743 Times in 443 Posts	Toytime, Welcome! Congrats on deciding to become boaters. It's a wonderful lifestyle. Random advice: If you plan to boat on Winnipesaukee, be sure to get a chart. It's a very tough place to navigate without one. I dropped a bit more money on a GPS chart plotter and think it's the best boating investment I have ever made. Get certified, shop around, and test drive more boats (and do so in heavy chop, this is very important). Shopping is fun. Set aside money for accessories like two anchors, comfy PFDs, boat hook, docklines, fenders etc. Get a bimini top with the boat you buy. Being in the sun all day can get old. Be sure to try a Regal too. I've had two now and really like them.

04-06-2006, 11:50 AM	#12
CHSLTD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 93 Thanks: 23 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Winnisquam Marine My wife and I purchased a 2005 225 Sundowner from Winnisquam Marine last summer. Our salesman was Ryan Crawford and we were very happy with the no hassle pricing (lowest around) and the amazing service. Sometimes there is more to buying a boat than price, Winnisquam Marine shows it's customers that their commitment to them is 110%. Not to mention the great product and price. If it sounds like I am happy with our experience you are right...We would strongly recommend Winnisquam Marine to you as I have to others.

04-06-2006, 02:41 PM	#13
fasttech Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Check out Irwin Marine they have about 20 used 20 footers on their web site and you can not get better service anywhere on the lake unless you go to their Alton store on 28A. Good Luck

04-07-2006, 10:13 AM	#14
PaulS Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I second Winnisquam Marine I've bought 2 boats from Winnisquam Marine. No nonsense, no hassling, great price.

04-07-2006, 10:29 AM	#15
GTO Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,085 Thanks: 338 Thanked 349 Times in 161 Posts	boats If your stuck on just the Four Winns, fine. But I reccommend you shop around for boats of different makes. If your stuck on the 20 ft, compare other makes in the same length. Some boats are heavier than others and weight makes a big difference on a rough day on the lake. I have a 23 ft Searay bowrider which is great for me on the big lake. __________________ GTO

04-07-2006, 12:54 PM	#16
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,984 Thanks: 246 Thanked 743 Times in 443 Posts	if you want to visit a great site solely for boating, check out www.boatingabc.com Lots of Winnipesaukee folks there and scads of great boating info as well.

04-07-2006, 07:19 PM	#17
Good N' You? Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Franklin, MA & South Down Shores Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Welcome Toytime! Good luck with your new boat purchase. Four Winns make a great boat! I sent you a PM, but thought others might want to hear what I had to say about my boat. Here is the link to the Yamaha site: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/boat/pro...53/0/home.aspx I think this boat fits these waters soooo well. The jet drive has so many benefits. Only 18" of draft and less at plane. You simply can go where others can't. And if you were to hit, for example a rock, You won't rip out your out drive, or your prop. Take one of these boats for a demo and you'll be surprised by this boat. At the least. Just my opinion. __________________ "Your supposed to tie one end of the anchor to the Boat!!!!"