When will the No Wake be eliminated?

[BlackCatIslander]

Now, that the lake is slowly going down, when will the state drop the no wake within 600' rule? As I write this, the lake is about 7'' above full. Assuming no significant rainfall, I presume that by Saturday we will be down at least another 4 or 5 inches.

[itchin for fishin]

Just noticed that they reduced the flow rate from about 2400 CFS to 2000 CFS. Seems like they are readying a return to "high normal". See site:

http://www.des.state.nh.us/rti_data/LKPN3_TABLE.HTML

How is it lakeside?

[jrc]

With the rain we had over the weekend and the rain predicted this week, I would be surprised if we break 504.32 by Saturday. That's always listed as the normal high, but if you look at Bizer's chart the lake exceeds that very often. If you look at the state chart, the upper bound of the standard deviation for this time of year is above 504.5 maybe 504.6 or even 504.7. That's reachable by Saturday. Looks like we are at 504.86 right now.

My sources:

http://www.bizer.com/bztnews.htm#lakelevel

http://www.des.state.nh.us/Dam/graph/graph2006.htm
http://www.des.state.nh.us/Dam/graph/chart2006.htm

http://www.des.state.nh.us/rti_inter...pesaukee#graph

http://www.des.state.nh.us/rti_data/wein3_TABLE.HTML

[TomC]

Originally Posted by jrc

With the rain we had over the weekend ...

i looked at a couple of US Geological Survey sites that show recent precipitation and it showed less than 1" fell over the weekend in both Tilton (nearest functional station at south end of lake) and Tamworth (nearest functional station at north end of lake). Are these inaccurate? Was there appreciably more rain than this?

[jrc]

Originally Posted by TomC

i looked at a couple of US Geological Survey sites that show recent precipitation and it showed less than 1" fell over the weekend in both Tilton (nearest functional station at south end of lake) and Tamworth (nearest functional station at north end of lake). Are these inaccurate? Was there appreciably more rain than this?

That seems about right, I didn't mean to exagerate the rain. Just noting that was some.

Don't forget that the watershed is saturated and it's a lot bigger than the lake, so a widespread inch of rain can be more than an inch of lake height.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by TomC

i looked at a couple of US Geological Survey sites that show recent precipitation and it showed less than 1" fell over the weekend in both Tilton (nearest functional station at south end of lake) and Tamworth (nearest functional station at north end of lake). Are these inaccurate? Was there appreciably more rain than this?

Here are the daily precip totals for the month from the airport:

June 1 - 0.45"
June 2 - 0.01"
June 3 - 0.32"
June 4 - 0.01"

Rose

[SIKSUKR]

That sounds about right to me.Most of the heavy rain fell south of the Winni watershed.

[jrc]

It looks like my predictions were optimistic. The lake is at 504.84 again, back up an inch or so. Looks like another week of 600' NWZ.

[Woodsy]

We have gotten pummeled with rain the last few days... but the weather is looking to clear up sometime tomorrow... long range looks good for the middle of Bike Week.

So maybe by next weekend?

Woodsy

[Airwaves]

I'm selfishly hoping that the Keeper holds the water a little longer.

After the recent flood downstream from Winni, the recent rains, and I assume runoff from Winni, have put the Merrimack River back up over the banks at the Lowel Motor Boat Club again.

We have yet to get our docks, any boats (with the exception of the one we lost over the falls) or even the safety barrells out onto the water!

I was at the club yesterday and today and there does not appear to be any sign the water is receding. The good news is it didn't come up too much overnight. (but it did come up an inch or so on the boat ramp and over the wall into the side yard)

I'm headed up to the lake sometime this week, it'll be the first bike week I will be at the lake where my friends and I don't have a boat in the water! So I have conflicting interests, I don't want more water down stream, and the lake has too much water...

EVERYONE....DO A NO MORE RAIN DANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Orion]

Watching the level at our dock and it appears to have gone up almost an inch already today!

[Weekend Pundit]

I was out on the lake today and I was amazed at of the folks who were out there weren't aware of the extended No Wake Zone.

One fellow was just coming out from under the Governor's Island bridge and started to roll up on his throttle. I signalled to him to slow down. He backed off and came aside. When I informed him of the extended no wake zone, he didn't believe me. A quick call to the Marine Patrol on VHF 16 to inquire about it proved the point. The guy was apologetic and wondered why he didn't know about it. I told him I wasn't surprised as it wasn't all that well publicized except a day or two before Memorial Day weekend.

He asked when it would be repealed and I told him I didn't know and that he best check with the MP before heading out.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by TomC

i looked at a couple of US Geological Survey sites that show recent precipitation and it showed less than 1" fell over the weekend in both Tilton (nearest functional station at south end of lake) and Tamworth (nearest functional station at north end of lake). Are these inaccurate? Was there appreciably more rain than this?

Tamworth is too far west of those great rain-makers, the Ossipee Mountains.

At most sundowns late last week, showers rained on the southern slopes of the Ossipees. Most of that runoff goes directly to the Melvin River, and then to Lake Winnipesaukee.

In the calm of this morning's lake surface, I see that my dock is once more IN the lake, rather than above it. Within a stone's throw, two new docks have floating pieces secured only by conduit, and have sunk below the surface again.

There doesn't seem to be any uniform observance of this new lakewide NWZ ruling—obviously an experiment gone wrong: There are boats 1200' off shore going slightly above NW, and some others close to shore going at top speed! Where the lake narrows so that no boat can be 600' offshore, nobody slows. (Somebody yesterday had an airhorn at that location, and used it—a lot!).

Because there are so few boats on the lake, "anything goes"?

[sea_n_ski]

Who is in charge of controlling the flow of the dam? Why would they cut the flow back while the lake is still rising? So your telling me we should all be flooded so some boat club in Lowell MA isn’t?

I actually was the one who called WMUR and convinced them to do the story last week. I did it because I called the governors’ office and was really upset with their reaction to this situation. Our lake is getting trashed. Our docks are taking on damage and people are ignoring the No Wake. Their response was that our Governor wants “Everyone to enjoy beautiful NH”. When I pressed about the situation and reminded them that there are plenty of taxpayers suffering , they directed me to marine patrol or wetlands. They actually said it was the MP fault things were out of control on the lake. I told the woman that the Governor is putting the MP in a no win situation.

Basically he is passing the buck and not dealing with the situation. I heard him speak at a business dinner and was embarrassed that he represents our state. Here he has a room full of business people trying to make his state better and tells stupid irrelevant canned stores he probably gives to the girl scouts. He was supposed to present an award to the fastest growing business in the state and he walked out just before the ceremony. Everyone should call the governors’ office (603)271-2121 and let him know how unhappy we all are.

The guy is hiding behind his desk with a stupid “no decision” on the lake level. Tell him to be a man and address the issue and at least have a response. Tell him to explain to all of us why he did what he did and what he plans to rectify the situation. Tell him to open the dam!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by sea_n_ski

Who is in charge of controlling the flow of the dam? Why would they cut the flow back while the lake is still rising? So your telling me we should all be flooded so some boat club in Lowell MA isn’t?
{snip}
The guy is hiding behind his desk with a stupid “no decision” on the lake level. Tell him to be a man and address the issue and at least have a response. Tell him to explain to all of us why he did what he did and what he plans to rectify the situation. Tell him to open the dam!

Aaaah I dunno about you but I wouldn't call the present rate (2050 CFS) out of the dam as being anything close to "closed". It may be down from the ~2500 max I've seen but it's not like the dam keepers aren't doing anything. The lake is going down. While it's not unreasonable to assume the reduction is out of concern for the downstream residents it might also be out of concern for the dam. I thought rates over 1000 CFS were beyond the normal operation of the dam and achieved only by opening the flood gates. For all I know they've flowed so much water recently that there's some other (structural) reason they can't leave the gate(s) opened.

But let's assume it's because the downstream people can't handle any more flow. Remember that just downsteam are Winnisquam & Silver lakes and when Winni goes up/down a foot, that same quantity of water can cause 5+ ft of rise/fall on Silver lake. Right now Winnisquam is ~1 ft over normal (about what we are). I guess we should just screw them ? Tell you what though, I'll try to arrange a meeting between you and someone downstream. We'll lock you both in a room and you can yell "Me, me, me, me .... My docks, my docks, my docks" until your ears burst. Geesh

[Moultonborolifeguard]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Aaaah I dunno about you but I wouldn't call the present rate (2050 CFS) out of the dam as being anything close to "closed". It may be down from the ~2500 max I've seen but it's not like they dam keepers aren't doing anything. The lake is going down. While it's not unreasonable to assume the reduction is out of concern for the downstream residents it might also be out of concern for the dam. I thought rates over 1000 CFS were beyond the normal operation of the dam and achieved only by opening the flood gates. For all I know they've flowed so much water recently that there's some other (structural) reason they can't leave the gate(s) opened.

But let's assume it's because the downstream people can't handle anymore flow. Remember that just downsteam are Winnisquam & Silver lakes and when Winni goes up/down a foot, that same quantity of water can cause 5+ ft of rise/fall on Silver lake. Right now Winnisquam is ~1 ft over normal (about what we are). I guess we should just screw them ? Tell you what though, I'll try to arrange a meeting between you and someone downstream. We'll lock you both in a room and you can yell "Me, me, me, me .... My docks, my docks, my docks" until your ears burst. Geesh

Well there are certainly more people on winnipesaukee then on winnisquam so I think the upstrem people would win that fight. But seriously we really can't screw the people downstream that much. I mean think how pissed you'd be if you were downstream.

[Resident 2B]

Last week before they slowed the discharge to about 2000 CFPS from 2500 CFPS, the current in the Weirs channel was very strong and some bigger boats were having a hard time maintaining control going with the flow when smaller boats ahead of them were going very (too) slow. As I was heading towards the Weirs, a 34 foot crusier coming towards me got almost completely sideways and was out of control for 20 to 30 seconds. No contact, but almost a four boat collision.

The reduced flow helps that situation.

R2B

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by sea_n_ski

Who is in charge of controlling the flow of the dam? Why would they cut the flow back while the lake is still rising? So your telling me we should all be flooded so some boat club in Lowell MA isn’t?

I actually was the one who called WMUR and convinced them to do the story last week. I did it because I called the governors’ office and was really upset with their reaction to this situation. Our lake is getting trashed. Our docks are taking on damage and people are ignoring the No Wake. Their response was that our Governor wants “Everyone to enjoy beautiful NH”. When I pressed about the situation and reminded them that there are plenty of taxpayers suffering , they directed me to marine patrol or wetlands. They actually said it was the MP fault things were out of control on the lake. I told the woman that the Governor is putting the MP in a no win situation.

Basically he is passing the buck and not dealing with the situation. I heard him speak at a business dinner and was embarrassed that he represents our state. Here he has a room full of business people trying to make his state better and tells stupid irrelevant canned stores he probably gives to the girl scouts. He was supposed to present an award to the fastest growing business in the state and he walked out just before the ceremony. Everyone should call the governors’ office (603)271-2121 and let him know how unhappy we all are.

The guy is hiding behind his desk with a stupid “no decision” on the lake level. Tell him to be a man and address the issue and at least have a response. Tell him to explain to all of us why he did what he did and what he plans to rectify the situation. Tell him to open the dam!

One would hope that highly qualified people are in charge of such things and have taken all the consequences of their actions into consideration when making their decisions. I seriously doubt the decision to set the lake outflow is made randomly, or at the Governer's level. I honestly hope he does not meddle with such affairs since he's quite likely not qualified. Managing nature has never been easy or wildly successful; the last person I'd want to even try would be a politician. Well, maybe not the last person, but close.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...Tamworth is too far west of those great rain-makers, the Ossipee Mountains...:

Actually, Tamworth is very clearly north and east of the Ossipees...

[Ken B]

Does Newfound have the same 600nwz? I didn't see it listed in the paper but who trusts the paper anyways?

Ken

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Ken B

Does Newfound have the same 600nwz? I didn't see it listed in the paper but who trusts the paper anyways?

Ken

Nope, according to the following, Newfound Lake is unaffected;

Saf-C 402.001 Emergency Restriction. Notwithstanding any rule to the contrary, until further notice, not person shall operate a vessel at a speed greater than headway speed within 600 feet from shoreline upon the waters of Silver Lake in the towns of Tilton and Belmont, Lake Winnipesaukee, Lake Winnisquam and Lake Opechee.

Also when I check Newfound's level it's normal;
http://www.des.state.nh.us/RTi_Home/...found+Lake+Dam

[Lakewinniboater]

for those wondering and haven't checked on this site.... http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/s...rol/index.html
this is where they will post it when lifted.

[Seadoo]

any new news on the 600ft NWZ???
will it be gone this coming weekend do you think?

[Woodsy]

I don't think they will rescind it until the level reaches full lake... We need to drop another 6.00" or so to get there...

Woodsy

[BlackCatIslander]

They seem to be holding the level steady as they release flows downstream, so I would guess that we need another 10 days or so to get close to full lake. Pray for a dry weather pattern.

[jrc]

The dam operators backed off from 2400 CFS to 2000 CFS, just as last weekend's storms came through. That bumped the lake back up a few inches to 504.9. It seems to have peaked and should be headed down again.

I'm guessing somewhere around 504.6. That's about four inches lower, I don't think we'll make it by Friday. Monday might be a good day, after the bikers leave.

The blue section on this chart is the target:
http://www.des.state.nh.us/Dam/graph/graph2006.htm

[Seadoo]

well knowbody goes NW anyway!

[BlackCatIslander]

From my limited observations, in my area of the lake the boat traffic is minimal and almost ( not everyone ) obeys the rule. From the various posts, this observation seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

[Seadoo]

this past weekend (sunday) knowbody in the Paugus Bay area was doing the 600NWZ

[DRH]

Few boaters are observing the 600 ft. NWZ in the West Alton area either. We saw some today who weren't even obeying the standard 150 ft. rule. I don't think its due to lack of knowledge, either. Amazing how the presence of a MP boat results in instant compliance. As soon as he leaves, ....

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by DRH

Few boaters are observing the 600 ft. NWZ in the West Alton area either. We saw some today who weren't even obeying the standard 150 ft. rule. I don't think its due to lack of knowledge, either. Amazing how the presence of a MP boat results in instant compliance. As soon as he leaves, ....

It's kinda the same thing as seeing the state cop sitting on the crossover in the median on 93. Everyone hits the brakes, gets by the cruiser, and then it's back up to 70+!

[feb]

Based on what I'm seeing on Winnisquam this afternoon, combined with the projected beautiful weather, it's probably safe to say that, unofficially, it's over in the eyes of the boaters I see right now.

[Orion]

When it will be lifted is irrelevant.

Here's why:

1. The rule was worthless because it caved to a 600' limit vs. whole lake.
2. It isn't being enforced.
3. Nobody is following it.

[jonr]

In the Gilford/Varney Pt/Glendale Smith Cove area many most people are observing the 600 ft NW. I'd say at least 70 to 80% that go by my house. This afternoon Marine Patrol had 3 boats in the area and they were doing a good job at getting those who weren't doing NW.

[Moultonborolifeguard]

Originally Posted by jonr

In the Gilford/Varney Pt/Glendale Smith Cove area many most people are observing the 600 ft NW. I'd say at least 70 to 80% that go by my house. This afternoon Marine Patrol had 3 boats in the area and they were doing a good job at getting those who weren't doing NW.

Isn't that the area right in front of marina patrol head quarters? I know a lot of people in that cove go NW anyway because theres usually a lot of boats there, and like i said its right in front of marine patrol headquarters.

[jonr]

I take it back. When Marine Patrol isn't around compliance does go dramatically down. Still there are a lot of people making an effort. More than I would have thought.

[DRH]

Originally Posted by jonr

I take it back. When Marine Patrol isn't around compliance does go dramatically down. Still there are a lot of people making an effort. More than I would have thought.

Today we saw the most boat traffic so far this season. I'd estimate maybe 5% obeyed the 600' NWZ, and even that might be generous. We only noticed one MP boat, which went by around 10 A.M. this morning, all day.