Momma Bear shot dead at Fun Spot

fatlazyless · 05-08-2007, 03:34 PM

Today's www.citizen.com and www.cmonitor.com both have front page lead articles about a nursing momma bear that was incorrectly shot dead by a Laconia cop. Probably, the cop regrets doing this, very very much.

So, what's a good remedy for the situation? I suggest the Laconia PD holds bake sales every Saturday from now to Christmas to pay for the baby bears' scholarship to www.clarkstradingpost.com and a 35 year life of earning bear-sized soft ice cream cones. Wild NH bears live an average seven years. From the Fun Spot to Clark's (home for orphaned Booboo bears)..... not the average NH bear's life, correctimondo Yogi!

Lin · 05-08-2007, 04:24 PM

Thanks for the info. That's a sad situation. I agree with the fish and game officer though, we have the same problem in our town with a police department that is unfamiliar with horses and cows let alone wildlife. We do training with the police officers and have supplied simple catch kits in many of the cruisers. Good thing Clark's is around.

secondcurve · 05-08-2007, 06:38 PM

It is sad, but I think he simply made an honest mistake. It is not easy being a police officer. Folks expect that they should never make mistakes despite all the varied situations they experience. You try standing 15-feet from an agitated bear. It can be unnerving. Imagine if the bear was wounded and he chose not to shoot and someone was injured. I think that despite the outcome this was a job well done by the officer.

Sunrise Point · 05-08-2007, 07:14 PM

I agree with Second Curve. Police officers are expected to be able to deal with anything that comes up. Their first priority is to protect the public.

I doubt that the Police Academy or any subsequent training made mention of how to deal with bears.

I am sorry it happened.

Pineedles · 05-08-2007, 07:24 PM

"Probably, the cop regrets doing this, very very much."

That's a supposition on your part. I assume you were being facetious, but I agree that it is difficult to be confronted with one of these beasts and not be afraid. Police officers are trained to handle the most dangerous species, mankind! It's too bad that the bear was killed, but put yourself in the officer's position. Can all of you honestly say that you wouldn't have shot?

jkjoshuatree · 05-08-2007, 09:08 PM

The police department should educate the officers more thoroughly in situations like these. There are way too many "John Wayne" types out there.

I'm not saying he's one of them, but a lot of times it's, "shoot now and ask questions later."

Any mention of what's going to happen to the cubs??

SAMIAM · 05-09-2007, 07:54 AM

Same thing happened in Meredith a few years ago.A bear about the size of a golden retriever strayed too close to town and naturally the police blew him away.Of course,it was "to protect the children"Seems like they are eager to shoot something.

MAXUM · 05-09-2007, 09:16 AM

I think the cop did the right thing.

Plain and simple, the police don't have the training to deal with wildlife, but then again this was a matter of public saftey and a little bit of self defense. What's the police to do? Having a bear in a very public location is a problem for public saftey. If the bear seems to be exhibiting strange behavior assumptions have to be made and I'm glad he errored on the side of caution Since bears don't talk and he could not ask momma bear "gee what's wrong with you" , or "you wouldn't happen to be a momma bear protecting a couple of cubs would you?" and there was no F&G officer available to assist it's not like he had a whole lot of options. As a hunter I have come across bears in the woods, typically they are just as afraid of you as you are of them and they run away avoiding confrontation. As written- the bear's behavior was unusual and unless you get right on top of them, roll them over and spread thier legs, from a distance there is no way to easily distinguish male and female bears.

It's really easy to arm chair QB situations like this, but I for one have a whole lot of respect for law enforcement and it's a tough job. I'll give the officer involved the benefit of the doubt and say unless otherwise proven, he used his judgement and did the right thing under the circumstances.

GTO · 05-09-2007, 09:27 AM

I'm familiar with the Funspot area but not the exact location the bear was shot. Did the officer have to actually take a few steps into the woods to see the bear? Or was the bear in plain view of the parking lot and could potentially be a risk to patrons.

Weirs guy · 05-09-2007, 11:07 AM

As someone with kids who lives just down the hill from Funspot I say kudos to the cop (which is a very rare statement from me in the first place).

fatlazyless · 05-09-2007, 12:07 PM

Apparently, there will be no police report and little info is coming out. If the officer approached to within 15 feet of the unawares bear without alerting the bear of his/her presence, that is extremey close. Could be it was 15 yards and not 15 feet? 15' is way too close for a bear approach. Bears will advise an approaching person to stay away by making loud woofing sounds. Similar to a dog but more breathy and less barky....like 'woooof woooof officer, you are in my space, please stay the H away!' Next step is for the bear to make lunges with an abrupt stop in an effort to scare the threat away. After 400 years, the NH wild bear knows to be scared of people.

So, after approaching the bear from a distance and armed with a high power hand gun, a whistle, mace, baton, and maybe a taser, the officer could have blow the whistle in the approach and most likely the momma bear would join her cubs up the large pine tree.

If you saw a bear apparently sleeping at the base of a tree, would you walk to within 15' holding a handgun or first make noise to alert it in an effort to get it to go away?

ps... decided to jump in the lake, cool off, and do a kinder rewrite. Hey, with today's 85 high, the lake was doable for 10 minutes.....a polar bear dip!

Mink Islander · 05-09-2007, 12:58 PM

I hear the officer involved has been reassigned to enforce the dog prohibition at the Alton docks. Dohhhh.. Live free or die, die, die. blam blam blam...

Sorry. Having an FLL moment....

SAMIAM · 05-09-2007, 02:05 PM

Where is Rattlesnakehunter when you need him......for once I agree with him!

kjbathe · 05-09-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The smart move would have been to blow the whistle, again and again.

... when Fatlazyless agrees to go on bear patrol armed with nothing else.

Kudos to the officer involved for taking the correct action, IMO, and for both Laconia Police and Fish & Game getting the rest of the story (http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...plate=printart) published in the Citizen's follow-up article -- too bad the Citizen didn't have all that information in the original story.

It's an unfortunate incident, but I'll side with people and police officers over the bear any day of the week.

Now I need to call my representatives about the implementation of a new mandatory wildlife training and certification program at the Police Academy (Tongue firmly in cheek and laughing at the mere thought of such a thing -- It's NH, police should have bear training... Now that's funny!

)

MAXUM · 05-09-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

So, after approaching the bear from a distance and armed with a .40 cal, hi-power semi-automatic pistol, a loud whistle, mace spray, a baton, and maybe a taser, the officer goes and pulls the trigger.

The smart move would have been to blow the whistle, again and again.

A .40 cal is hardly "high powered". I love the dramatics. I'm actually surprised that the bear was killed with that round even at close range since LE can only use full metal jackets which do not have the expansion rate of a hollow point slug and are far less likely to deal a fatal blow.

If the bear feels either threatened or is not acting normal blowing a whistle is about as smart as yelling "shooooo bear shooooo", a fast way to get yourself mauled or killed. I can't even begin to address the lack of common sense it would take to get close enough to a bear to use mace, a baton or a taser effectively.

Coolbreeze · 05-09-2007, 05:49 PM

What was the point of the officer getting that close anyway. What happenened to observing from a "safe distance". Was the bear sleepin in a schoool yard or the like? I am not goint to armchair qb this one. I would have shot if I was in his spot. Remind me not to fall asleep in the woods near there, I snore like a bear.

coley · 05-10-2007, 01:08 PM

Does anyone know if there is a search on for the cubs and their well being??

Alton Mumma · 05-10-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coley

Does anyone know if there is a search on for the cubs and their well being??

"two (cubs) subsequently were located, captured and taken to a rehabilitator in Coos County"
- quote from the citizen article published May 9, 2007

SIKSUKR · 05-10-2007, 02:12 PM

I saw the cubs on WMUR this morning.They look timid and confused as to where mom is.Kind of sad.

Pineedles · 05-10-2007, 08:20 PM

The poor little cubs that are motherless will be taken care of by humans. The only species that has sympathy for the creatures that they kill. Sorry to be so graphic in my words, but the point needs to be made. A mother bear protecting her cubs against a group of human interlopers (a dad and his 2 kids on a camping trip) wouldn't stick around and take care of the human kids after it had slashed the torso of the dad leaving him bloody and dead on the forest floor. Sorry once again, for ending a thread with the plain truth.

HomeWood · 05-13-2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkjoshuatree

The police department should educate the officers more thoroughly in situations like these. There are way too many "John Wayne" types out there.

You couldn't be more wrong. How do I know? I'm a police officer of six years. I have never ever met an officer who wants to be "John Wayne" or use his/her gun. It's the last thing we want to do, especially on another person. I had an incident a week and a half ago where I confronted a man with a stolen gun. I was ready to shoot because he wouldn't listen to my commands. I gave him one more second and he reached for the gun, but he threw it on the ground. I could have justifiably shot and killed him, but I am not "John Wayne" and used my judgement to wait one more second. I assume you're career is the furthest thing from law enforcement, so please don't talk as if you know anything about it.

As far as this officer shooting the bear, he did what he felt he had to do. Nobody on here was there, so don't Monday morning quarter back the situation. It's definately sad, but his human life is more important (lack of a better term) than the bears. I am an animal lover, so don't think that I have no compassion for the momma bear or her cubs.

shooter · 05-13-2007, 09:27 PM

shoot first ask questions later , better safe than sorry .the cop did the right thing.
by the way I wonder if they donated the bear meat to the poor ? I hear the meat is quite tasty.

wildwoodfam · 05-09-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineedles

"Probably, the cop regrets doing this, very very much."

That's a supposition on your part. I assume you were being facetious, but I agree that it is difficult to be confronted with one of these beasts and not be afraid. Police officers are trained to handle the most dangerous species, mankind! It's too bad that the bear was killed, but put yourself in the officer's position. Can all of you honestly say that you wouldn't have shot?

I can say I wouldn't - and in fact did not shoot the bear. A good sized Black Bear who decided to wander about the campus of a school I taught at a few years back. I made a heck of a lot of noise, blew an airhorn and the bear took off, outta my yard and away into the woods, running from the 100 or so students who were standing there (caught on the path crossing to go to classes.)

I am not saying the police had any other choice - I was not there, nor were any of us writing about this. I do think its too bad. Given that this is New Hampshire and not downtown Boston, the appearance of a bear should not be that surprising, and yes, I'll repeat what I said earlier, police should be trained in emergency situations dealing with wildlife.

wildwoodfam · 05-09-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunrise Point

I agree with Second Curve. Police officers are expected to be able to deal with anything that comes up. Their first priority is to protect the public.

I doubt that the Police Academy or any subsequent training made mention of how to deal with bears.

I am sorry it happened.

I wonder WHAT the training for New Hampshire - and any area with a large wildlife population consists of? Wouldn't it make sense that if the police officers are to be assigned to duties in areas where wildlife is located that a piece of their training would be wildlife management and public safety? Urban police are trained in specialty areas - cities with gangs have simialr training for their police - makes sense.

Its a sad situation, but one probably avoided if there was training. Also - officers are required to make split decisions - and mistakes SHOULDN'T happen in these situations. I am not a police officer, but come from a family of law enforcement professionals...none of them had luckliy ever made a mistake while on the job. Mistakes in law enforcement can cost lives, including their own.

05-08-2007, 03:34 PM	#1
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,735 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,006 Times in 734 Posts	Momma Bear shot dead at Fun Spot Today's www.citizen.com and www.cmonitor.com both have front page lead articles about a nursing momma bear that was incorrectly shot dead by a Laconia cop. Probably, the cop regrets doing this, very very much. So, what's a good remedy for the situation? I suggest the Laconia PD holds bake sales every Saturday from now to Christmas to pay for the baby bears' scholarship to www.clarkstradingpost.com and a 35 year life of earning bear-sized soft ice cream cones. Wild NH bears live an average seven years. From the Fun Spot to Clark's (home for orphaned Booboo bears)..... not the average NH bear's life, correctimondo Yogi!

05-08-2007, 04:24 PM	#2
Lin Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Massachusetts & Moultonborough Posts: 673 Thanks: 41 Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts	Thanks for the info. That's a sad situation. I agree with the fish and game officer though, we have the same problem in our town with a police department that is unfamiliar with horses and cows let alone wildlife. We do training with the police officers and have supplied simple catch kits in many of the cruisers. Good thing Clark's is around. __________________ Lin

05-08-2007, 07:24 PM	#5
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,542 Thanks: 1,071 Thanked 667 Times in 366 Posts	Fll "Probably, the cop regrets doing this, very very much." That's a supposition on your part. I assume you were being facetious, but I agree that it is difficult to be confronted with one of these beasts and not be afraid. Police officers are trained to handle the most dangerous species, mankind! It's too bad that the bear was killed, but put yourself in the officer's position. Can all of you honestly say that you wouldn't have shot?

05-08-2007, 09:08 PM	#6
jkjoshuatree Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 642 Thanks: 349 Thanked 145 Times in 77 Posts	The Bears Were Here Long Before We Were... The police department should educate the officers more thoroughly in situations like these. There are way too many "John Wayne" types out there. I'm not saying he's one of them, but a lot of times it's, "shoot now and ask questions later." Any mention of what's going to happen to the cubs?? __________________ Dream out loud.

05-09-2007, 09:27 AM	#9
GTO Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,085 Thanks: 338 Thanked 349 Times in 161 Posts	?? I'm familiar with the Funspot area but not the exact location the bear was shot. Did the officer have to actually take a few steps into the woods to see the bear? Or was the bear in plain view of the parking lot and could potentially be a risk to patrons. __________________ GTO

05-08-2007, 06:38 PM	#3
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,117 Thanks: 1,325 Thanked 559 Times in 288 Posts	It is sad, but I think he simply made an honest mistake. It is not easy being a police officer. Folks expect that they should never make mistakes despite all the varied situations they experience. You try standing 15-feet from an agitated bear. It can be unnerving. Imagine if the bear was wounded and he chose not to shoot and someone was injured. I think that despite the outcome this was a job well done by the officer.

05-08-2007, 07:14 PM	#4
Sunrise Point Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Meredith Center / Winnisquam Posts: 250 Thanks: 87 Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts	I agree with Second Curve. Police officers are expected to be able to deal with anything that comes up. Their first priority is to protect the public. I doubt that the Police Academy or any subsequent training made mention of how to deal with bears. I am sorry it happened.

05-09-2007, 07:54 AM	#7
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,891 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,673 Times in 584 Posts	Same thing happened in Meredith a few years ago.A bear about the size of a golden retriever strayed too close to town and naturally the police blew him away.Of course,it was "to protect the children"Seems like they are eager to shoot something.

05-09-2007, 09:16 AM	#8
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	I think the cop did the right thing. Plain and simple, the police don't have the training to deal with wildlife, but then again this was a matter of public saftey and a little bit of self defense. What's the police to do? Having a bear in a very public location is a problem for public saftey. If the bear seems to be exhibiting strange behavior assumptions have to be made and I'm glad he errored on the side of caution Since bears don't talk and he could not ask momma bear "gee what's wrong with you" , or "you wouldn't happen to be a momma bear protecting a couple of cubs would you?" and there was no F&G officer available to assist it's not like he had a whole lot of options. As a hunter I have come across bears in the woods, typically they are just as afraid of you as you are of them and they run away avoiding confrontation. As written- the bear's behavior was unusual and unless you get right on top of them, roll them over and spread thier legs, from a distance there is no way to easily distinguish male and female bears. It's really easy to arm chair QB situations like this, but I for one have a whole lot of respect for law enforcement and it's a tough job. I'll give the officer involved the benefit of the doubt and say unless otherwise proven, he used his judgement and did the right thing under the circumstances.

05-09-2007, 11:07 AM	#10
Weirs guy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Weirs Beach, NH Posts: 1,067 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	As someone with kids who lives just down the hill from Funspot I say kudos to the cop (which is a very rare statement from me in the first place). __________________ Is it bikeweek yet? Now?

05-09-2007, 12:07 PM	#11
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,735 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,006 Times in 734 Posts	Apparently, there will be no police report and little info is coming out. If the officer approached to within 15 feet of the unawares bear without alerting the bear of his/her presence, that is extremey close. Could be it was 15 yards and not 15 feet? 15' is way too close for a bear approach. Bears will advise an approaching person to stay away by making loud woofing sounds. Similar to a dog but more breathy and less barky....like 'woooof woooof officer, you are in my space, please stay the H away!' Next step is for the bear to make lunges with an abrupt stop in an effort to scare the threat away. After 400 years, the NH wild bear knows to be scared of people. So, after approaching the bear from a distance and armed with a high power hand gun, a whistle, mace, baton, and maybe a taser, the officer could have blow the whistle in the approach and most likely the momma bear would join her cubs up the large pine tree. If you saw a bear apparently sleeping at the base of a tree, would you walk to within 15' holding a handgun or first make noise to alert it in an effort to get it to go away? ps... decided to jump in the lake, cool off, and do a kinder rewrite. Hey, with today's 85 high, the lake was doable for 10 minutes.....a polar bear dip! Last edited by fatlazyless; 05-09-2007 at 04:35 PM.

05-09-2007, 12:58 PM	#12
Mink Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 753 Thanks: 59 Thanked 271 Times in 129 Posts	Officer reassignment? I hear the officer involved has been reassigned to enforce the dog prohibition at the Alton docks. Dohhhh.. Live free or die, die, die. blam blam blam... Sorry. Having an FLL moment....

05-09-2007, 02:05 PM	#13
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,891 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,673 Times in 584 Posts	Where is Rattlesnakehunter when you need him......for once I agree with him!

05-09-2007, 05:49 PM	#16
Coolbreeze Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts	What was the point of the officer getting that close anyway. What happenened to observing from a "safe distance". Was the bear sleepin in a schoool yard or the like? I am not goint to armchair qb this one. I would have shot if I was in his spot. Remind me not to fall asleep in the woods near there, I snore like a bear.

05-10-2007, 01:08 PM	#17
coley Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Danvers,MA and 1 wk/yr Wolfeboro Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 7 Posts	Does anyone know if there is a search on for the cubs and their well being??

05-10-2007, 02:12 PM	#19
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	I saw the cubs on WMUR this morning.They look timid and confused as to where mom is.Kind of sad. __________________ SIKSUKR

05-10-2007, 08:20 PM	#20
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,542 Thanks: 1,071 Thanked 667 Times in 366 Posts	Nature is Cruel The poor little cubs that are motherless will be taken care of by humans. The only species that has sympathy for the creatures that they kill. Sorry to be so graphic in my words, but the point needs to be made. A mother bear protecting her cubs against a group of human interlopers (a dad and his 2 kids on a camping trip) wouldn't stick around and take care of the human kids after it had slashed the torso of the dad leaving him bloody and dead on the forest floor. Sorry once again, for ending a thread with the plain truth.

05-13-2007, 09:27 PM	#22
shooter Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: north eastern ma Posts: 27 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	shoot first shoot first ask questions later , better safe than sorry .the cop did the right thing. by the way I wonder if they donated the bear meat to the poor ? I hear the meat is quite tasty.