Drunk (speeding) boater crahes, Lake George

[Skip]

Often we hear that the implementation of speed limits on Lake George has been a success.

Unless and until you consider an alleged CRIME like this.

Apparently the widely publicized speed limits on this particular lake had no effect on this woman's alleged decision to break a number of boating regulations.

[hazelnut]

I am shocked!

Here I had been told all along that a Speed Limit on a lake would fix all these problems..... Have I been mislead. Whatever shall we do?

[Cal]

Well suprize , suprize , suprize

And it wasn't even a go fast boat

[Resident 2B]

Now that Lake George is still unsafe, perhaps they should lower the speed limit to 20 MPH

That would make it much safer!

Then, if there was another problem like this, the next step would be 10 MPH.

Before we know it, we will only be allowed to go backwards!

R2B

[2Blackdogs]

Originally Posted by Cal

Well suprize , suprize , suprize

And it wasn't even a go fast boat

That's not what they're saying at Lake George.

Looks like a cobalt? Those boats really fly!

Additional Lake George crash commentary from the Web.

Sunday night about 11:30pm, Happy Family Island. These Islands are about 400 yards inside the 5 mile an hour bouy. He had to be traveling 35 + to get that far up the Island.

I could see someone running aground in the narrows even sober, It get pitch black up there at night with no home around to light the shore.

But in the area of this grounding they should have seen that island a mile away.

We were sitting on our boathouse deck at that night and we could hear it coming.

Wow, how do you miss that? Sounds like the driver was so drunk that they saw two of the islands and tried to split them. I guess the speed limit at night won't be lifted anytime soon.

Here's a different link, one that has comments.

http://www.poststar.com/articles/200...8206368294.txt


Among the comments at that site are revealing.

And the boating season has only just begun.
There are drunks tooling all over that lake
yet the State Police have decided to cancel their only boat patrol.

Our boating season has only just begun, but Winni is not alone regarding drunks and insufficient patrol.

A response time of 45 minutes in Winni's latest case, tells me that somebody rolled out of bed for that 2am call.

On the other hand, when the State Police are cancelling their only boat, somebody goes on a bender on a lake with a night speed limit of 25mph.

To Sandy Beach, this revelation.

You can only boat "prudently".

You cannot boat "safely" should you ever, even once, anchor your boat or shut off the engine while out on the lake.

I never say, "Have a safe trip".

I tell them "Take care".

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

That's not what they're saying at Lake George.



Additional Lake George crash commentary from the Web.





Here's a different link, one that has comments.

http://www.poststar.com/articles/200...8206368294.txt


Among the comments at that site are revealing.



Our boating season has only just begun, but Winni is not alone regarding drunks and insufficient patrol.

A response time of 45 minutes in Winni's latest case, tells me that somebody rolled out of bed for that 2am call.

On the other hand, when the State Police are cancelling their only boat, somebody goes on a bender on a lake with a night speed limit of 25mph.

To Sandy Beach, this revelation.

You can only boat "prudently".

You cannot boat "safely" should you ever, even once, anchor your boat or shut off the engine while out on the lake.

I never say, "Have a safe trip".

I tell them "Take care".

2 BD, What are you talking about? Your rambling, cobbled together posts are difficult to follow and read.

A 29 Cobalt may be able to go fast, but it is certainly not a GFBL boat.

There is currently no speed limit on the lake at night and your idle speculation (which may or may not be validated) that someone was on a bender is just that - speculation.

A 45 minute response time at night and in fog (regardless of what your observations were) is not slow nor is it an indication that someone rolled out of bed.

I have both shut my boat off and anchored on Winnipesaukee and felt safe (as safe as one can be in life). Would I do so everywhere on the lake? Absolutely not. My kids play ball in the street in front of my house, not on I-93 (to use an analogy).

You have been casting aspersions towards NHMP and others. I know one thing- they will be there if you or I need them, as fast as they can "prudently" get there. If I choose to on the lake at night I do not expect a NHMP boat to be within 5 minutes of me at all times. I am prepared for emergencies.

What is your agenda? I am hesitant to call anyone that posts on forums a troll, but your posts have made me reconsider.

Have a good day.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

2 BD, What are you talking about? Your rambling, cobbled together posts are difficult to follow and read.

A 29 Cobalt may be able to go fast, but it is certainly not a GFBL boat.

There is currently no speed limit on the lake at night and your idle speculation (which may or may not be validated) that someone was on a bender is just that - speculation.

A 45 minute response time at night and in fog (regardless of what your observations were) is not slow nor is it an indication that someone rolled out of bed.

I have both shut my boat off and anchored on Winnipesaukee and felt safe (as safe as one can be in life). Would I do so everywhere on the lake? Absolutely not. My kids play ball in the street in front of my house, not on I-93 (to use an analogy).

You have been casting aspersions towards NHMP and others. I know one thing- they will be there if you or I need them, as fast as they can "prudently" get there. If I choose to on the lake at night I do not expect a NHMP boat to be within 5 minutes of me at all times. I am prepared for emergencies.

What is your agenda? I am hesitant to call anyone that posts on forums a troll, but your posts have made me reconsider.

Have a good day.

Sorry BD about some of that

See how your cobbled together post confuse me BD!!

I confused the LG parts of your post with the Diamond incident. This lady at LG was an irresponsible drunk dangerous skipper who does not belong in a bathtub with a remote controlled boat.

I stand by anything Winni related.

[VtSteve]

It is confusing Vita, but your comments were still on target, regardless of whether they were intentional or not

BD has made up his mind that if alcohol was involved in the Winni accident, it's only because of whom the driver was, and the fact that it was a Formula. Oh, and they were speeding.

For the LG accident, he tried to zero in on the fact that the boat was a speeding GFBL Cobalt, because some observers heard the boat, it was loud. Maybe it is, but even some pretty lame boats have thru hulls and are loud.

He didn't want to mention the LG speed limit issue, since LG has a speed limit, night and day. The driver there was not only charged with going over the 5 mph speed limit, but also BUI. So it does get to be pretty confusing, especially when he throws out old new articles, and cuts and pastes limited statements to try and distort the event. But comments like this does not deter him. BD's rule of thumb is this

1) All GFBL boats are too fast
2) All GFBL boaters are Pardy Hardy people
3) Speed lmits will eliminate drunken boaters and accidents
4) If he makes a misstatement, he will avoid responding for at least a week or more, then he will go on a diatribe that eventually supports our arguments, not his assertions.

It galls him to the enth degree that we all support safe boating, support increased enforcement, support getting BUI boaters off the waterways, and virtually all of us support driving safely and at speeds appropriate for the conditions. If he were to agree with us, it would throw off his ability to defend his agenda. So occasionally, he has to mislead, misrepresent, and occasionally, mistate's someone's posts. Note that there was no cute little response to my posts, which I copied and pasted for everyone to see. I have nothing to hide, whereas he has no shame.

Sorry all, just some filler while we await further information.

[Island Lover]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I am shocked!

Here I had been told all along that a Speed Limit on a lake would fix all these problems..... Have I been mislead. Whatever shall we do?

And Cal and Resident 2B

Perhaps you are not aware but this was only an "Informative Post" by Skip. He was not suggesting that the speed limits on George or Winni will not makes those lakes safer. He was not comparing Lake George with Winni. He never implied that speed limits would "fix" George or Winni or prevent all accidents. His grapes are sweet.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

And Cal and Resident 2B

His grapes are sweet.

So you've eerrhh....nevermind.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

And Cal and Resident 2B

Perhaps you are not aware but this was only an "Informative Post" by Skip. He was not suggesting that the speed limits on George or Winni will not makes those lakes safer. He was not comparing Lake George with Winni. He never implied that speed limits would "fix" George or Winni or prevent all accidents. His grapes are sweet.

Please re-read my post. I was not comparing the two lakes either. I have no idea how any rational person could conclude that from my post. But then...

R2B

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Resident 2B

Please re-read my post. I was not comparing the two lakes either. I have no idea how any rational person could conclude that from my post. But then...

R2B

R2B Don't bother, if they can't figure out the sarcasm and humor in my post you'll never be able to explain your post.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

R2B Don't bother, if they can't figure out the sarcasm and humor in my post you'll never be able to explain your post.

Is it like the sarcasm and humor in Island Lovers post? Because I can figure that out easy!

I guess you missed the smilie.



Lakegeezer

If they are truly traveling at a safe and prudent speed I don't think they need worry about the speed limit.

[Sandy Beach]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Lakegeezer If they are truly traveling at a safe and prudent speed I don't think they need worry about the speed limit.

Is Bear Islander repeating what the anti-speed limit bill side has often claimed or is he being sarcastic? If boaters on either lake operate at a prudent and safe speed then there is no need for additional quantified speed limits. That sounds very reasonable.

Originally Posted by Mr. Moyer

This was a thread set up to intitiate arguements.

Skip is not a troll and I don't think he ever initiated a thread designed to start arguments. I do agree with you we do not need another thread to argue about proposed new speed limits.

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

I LIKE that the driver was charged with violating the 5 mph limit near shore. Why hasn't this been a part of Winni's enforcement practice when boats run onto islands?

Violation of the headway or 6 mph law on Winnipesaukee is already a tool available to the authorities.

Boat safely and prudently

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Sandy Beach

...Skip is not a troll and I don't think he ever initiated a thread designed to start arguments...

Thanks SB (and my buddy SOSQ!)...Mr. Moyer is entitled to his opinion and I can understand and appreciate his concern.

I offered the event with little attached editorial opinion as it appeared to me to be relevant to the overall discussion of this sub-thread. As those of us that peruse this topic are aware, a number of individuals have consistently held that the speed limits imposed on Lake George are proof that such accidents are prevented, and some of those same folks have also claimed that the collision on Sebago could have been prevented with NH style proposed limits. And a very few have repeatedly attempted to tie the Littlefield crime into the speed limit debate.

The often presented argument?

That the mere presence of additional regulation will cause an inebriated individual to have second thoughts about getting behind the helm.

The news article was presented to allow the reader to once again reconsider the arguments from both sides of the equation in order to change or reinforce their own personal opinions on the matter.

Nothing more....nothing less.

Now let's all get our boats ready for what is shaping up to be a fantastic upcoming weekend!

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Sandy Beach

Is Bear Islander repeating what the anti-speed limit bill side has often claimed or is he being sarcastic? If boaters on either lake operate at a prudent and safe speed then there is no need for additional quantified speed limits. That sounds very reasonable.


Skip is not a troll and I don't think he ever initiated a thread designed to start arguments. I do agree with you we do not need another thread to argue about proposed new speed limits.

Violation of the headway or 6 mph law on Winnipesaukee is already a tool available to the authorities.

Boat safely and prudently

No sarcasm intended. There is no safe and prudent speed standard on the lake yet (no matter what others may say). HB847 will provide one at last. It also provides actual numbers, 45/25 that set a standard of behavior to the boating community.

Setting that standard is what will make a difference. How many speed traps the MP set up, or how many tickets handed out, will make little difference.

I think the number of tickets handed out each year to boaters that were operating at "safe and prudent speeds" that are over the limit, will be counted on one hand. Perhaps one finger.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

No sarcasm intended. There is no safe and prudent speed standard on the lake yet (no matter what others may say).

Since the arguement has been expressed in many ways, what about what the NASBLA safety course says?

Chapter 3: Operating Your Boat—Safely Navigation Rules—Traffic Laws of the Waterways:

Maintain a safe speed.
Safe speed is the speed that ensures you will have ample time to avoid a collision and can stop within an appropriate distance. Safe speed will vary depending on conditions such as wind, water conditions, navigational hazards, visibility, surrounding vessel traffic density, and the maneuverability of your boat or PWC. Always reduce speed and navigate with extreme caution at night and when visibility is restricted.

Sounds pretty 'standard' to me?????

[Bear Islander]

I should have said "official standard". The NASBLA definition is not law.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I should have said "official standard". The NASBLA definition is not law.

So, by law, (or "official standard", as you refer to it) I am required to hold a valid certification that signifies completion of an approved boating course.

In said course, I was required to learn and adhere to the following "Traffic Laws of the Waterways" and it's contents.....

I fail to see any ambiguity with that logic - if A = B then C?

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I should have said "official standard". The NASBLA definition is not law.

It's a good standard, perhaps a great one.

I'll bet nobody fought to get it adopted in NH as Law. Even mandating a plaque on every boat sold nationwide would be great. They probably won't enforce the laws anyway, but it will be nice to feel better about the growing list of laws.

[2Blackdogs]

If she were to hold a certificate valid for Winni, would the Marine Patrol revoke her boater's certificate if she pleads guilty or is found guilty?

Originally Posted by Sandy Beach

Violation of the headway or 6 mph law on Winnipesaukee is already a tool available to the authorities.

Boat safely and prudently

I would add, "Boat Defensively" since the thread title refers to a "Drunk (speeding) boater". Also, there has been no past mention of this "tool" in Foster's news reporting.

[lifeonthefarm]

a BWI conviction carries the same penalties as DWI on your driver's license in addition to a one year loss of boating privileges, so in a sense her certificate would be "revoked"

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by lifeonthefarm
a BWI conviction carries the same penalties as DWI on your driver's license in addition to a one year loss of boating privileges, so in a sense her certificate would be "revoked"

A certificate is not a license. A license can be revoked I don't believe a certificate, safe boating or otherwise, can be revoked. A certificate is for LIFE 'on the farm'

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

A certificate is not a license. A license can be revoked I don't believe a certificate, safe boating or otherwise, can be revoked. A certificate is for LIFE 'on the farm'

Just like a motor vehicle license, the NH issued boating certificate can be revoked by the Department of Safety or the appropriate Court after a just cause hearing complying with RSA 541-A is conducted.

The authority to revoke is given in RSA 270-D:13 (II).

There are specific boat operating suspension mandates for individuals convicted of Driving While Intoxicated or Boating While Intoxicated (alcohol or drugs) if the offense occurs in this State, applicable to this State. Other States may or may not honor these suspensions within their respective State dependent upon their specific reciprocity laws.

Remember, while thier are specific interstate reporting systems in place with reciprocity agreements between many States regarding motor vehicle offenses, no such system exists for boating safety certificates. In the case of the out-of-state offense addressed here, if the woman alleged to have committed the offense on Lake George is convicted in that State there is no mechanism for New York to notify or enforce reciprocity with NH. NH authorities would need to somehow become aware of the conviction and then attempt to revoke the certificate via the hearing process described above.

In short, while a NASBLA issued certificate is now a requirement in NH to operate particular types of watercraft, there are substantial loopholes remaining in the present regulations that ensure folks that should not be at the helm of a boat will not be easily detected or removed from operation.

[Airwaves]

It appears it is certainly not likely to ever happen.

RSA 270-D:13 II. Once issued, the certificate of safe boater education shall be valid for the lifetime of the person and may not be revoked by the department of safety or a court without cause and a hearing in accordance with RSA 541-A.

Unlike a license, a certificate is just that, a certificate that you accomplished something. A license is different. The NH Boating regulations require a certificate stating that you have successfully completed a NASBLA approved boating course/test.

We can debate what a boating license is if you'd like. In NH it appears to me to be an additional written test and a small fee. Much different from a USCG license.

I did look at RSA 541-A and I didn't see anything regarding the revokation of an individual certificate. I did see a way to revoke agency certficates or so I think. Granted I did not read the entire RSA but if you would be so kind as to show me how NH can revoked an individual certificate of accomplishment?
No, I'm not being a Smart Ass I just didn't see the wording.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/Rules/revstatannot.html

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

...Unlike a license, a certificate is just that, a certificate that you accomplished something. A license is different. The NH Boating regulations require a certificate stating that you have successfully completed a NASBLA approved boating course/test...I did look at RSA 541-A and I didn't see anything regarding the revokation of an individual certificate. I did see a way to revoke agency certficates or so I think. Granted I did not read the entire RSA but if you would be so kind as to show me how NH can revoked an individual certificate of accomplishment?...

In New Hampshire, like a number of other States, in order to operate a motorized watercraft with HP in excess of 25 HP you must posess the NASBLA approved Safety Certificate. If you do not posess such a certificate you cannot operate such watercraft. By virtue of the fact that posession of such certificate is mandated by the State, the certificate is in effect your "license and privilege" to operate as mandated by the State. The word "license" does not have to appear to make a document or certificate meet the legal definition of license.

As previously mentioned in the above mentioned RSA, the State has the authority to revoke the issued lifetime certificate by following adjudication defined in RSA 541-A. If you go to RSA 541-A you will find the guidelines defining adjudicatory procedures for the necesary hearing defined in RSA 541-A:30 and several following paragraphs.

Synopsis? While the document issued to the boater in New Hampshire is indeeed a certificate, the mandatory requirement of posession of that certificate to operate certain watercraft make that certificate by law a license to operate, and therefore an item that is issued and hence can be revoked or suspended by the issuing authority.

,

[SIKSUKR]

If there's one thing I have learned while being a part of this forum it's never ever doubt Skips knowledge of the law.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

If there's one thing I have learned while being a part of this forum it's never ever doubt Skips knowledge of the law.

....but I do have an unfair advantage!

[Airwaves]

Although I still have my doubts. Since the certificate is required to boat on NH waters, but that certificate can be issued by any agency with NASBLA anywhere in the country (for all practile purposes) what authority does NH have to 'revoke' a certificate issued outside of the State of New Hampshire?

In my case my certifcate was issued by the US Coast Guard Auxiliary. The US Power Squadron certificates are also recognized by NH but not issued by a state. etc etc.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Lakegeezer

If they are truly traveling at a safe and prudent speed I don't think they need worry about the speed limit.

You are getting at the center of the discussion here. A boat can be traveling at 60 mph and still be safe and prudent, yet next year, and for two years after that, it will be illlegal to do so - therefore, not prudent. If you love safe speed and yet respect the law, you have to worry.

The discussion point is; can 60 MPH be safe and prudent? It sure seemed that way this morning.

[MAXUM]

The only thing a speed limit did in this case was give the authorities one additional charge to nail this gal with (exceeding the speed limit) that otherwise would not be available. Of course it's silly to suggest that any law will stop irresponsible behavior, to think otherwise is wishful thinking.

Is it worth having a speed limit for this reason? The 50K question for sure, but it's certainly never going to be a deterrent except for those that actually obey the law. I've pointed out in the past "reckless operation" is totally subjective and therefore arguable in court. Breaking a speed limit however is much more cut and dry and more likely to stick. It's difficult for the authorities to reconstruct the operator's frame of mind and determine if reckless operation was indeed a factor. They can however at least estimate the speed of the vessel and make a much more compelling argument based on fact and not pure speculation.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by MAXUM
The only thing a speed limit did in this case was give the authorities one additional charge to nail this gal with (exceeding the speed limit) that otherwise would not be available. Of course it's silly to suggest that any law will stop irresponsible behavior, to think otherwise is wishful thinking.

As I read the article I understand it to mean that the "speed limit" that was violated has nothing to do with the Lake George 40mph limit, she violated a posted no wake zone, 5MPH maxum (pun intended)
So the crimes committed would also be crimes on Winnipesaukee, speed limit or no.

My immediate take on this is that the Winnipesaukee speed limit law would do nothing in this instance either. When people drink and boat this happens regardless of a 45mph speed limit, 40mph speed limit or in this case 5mph speed limit!

[EricP]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

The only thing a speed limit did in this case was give the authorities one additional charge to nail this gal with (exceeding the speed limit) that otherwise would not be available.

Just to clarify and to echo "Skipper's" post. Under current NH law that charge would be available. She could be given a ticket for exceeding headway speed which would essentially be a speeding ticket.

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

The only thing a speed limit did in this case was give the authorities one additional charge to nail this gal with (exceeding the speed limit) that otherwise would not be available. Of course it's silly to suggest that any law will stop irresponsible behavior, to think otherwise is wishful thinking.

Is it worth having a speed limit for this reason? The 50K question for sure, but it's certainly never going to be a deterrent except for those that actually obey the law.

Is there value in having the additional statute to use? How many times were current laws about distance from shore and prudent speed used? The speed limit is yet another option to add to a list of charges for a Captain Bonehead but impacts otherwise law abiding boaters who are traveling at a safe and prudent speed.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Skip

Often we hear that the implementation of speed limits on Lake George has been a success.

Are you saying the Lake George speed limits have not been a success?

Are you saying the accident rate on Lake George is worse since speed limits?

Did anyone ever claim a speed limit on Winnipesaukee would prevent all accidents?

Or is this report just sour grapes sensationalism of an event unrelated to speed limits?

[Mr. Moyer]

Here we go again, another thread which will degenerate to name calling and cutting/pasting prior comments. Why don't all of you just agree to disagree, and deal with this topic through the statehouse. Obviously, bickering on this thread, doesn't solve anything. But it is typical New England style to scream and holler and when it comes time for a call to action, there are nothing but the sounds of crickets. This was a thread set up to intitiate arguements.

I am against speed limits, (due to individual rights reasons, thus the reason I moved to the great state of NH) but obviously the major cause in this accident and most are due to a combination of alchohol/drugs and lack of judgement. Speed limit laws will not remove these idiots from the waterways or the roadways, unfortunatly. The speed limit debate does not apply here. It does have a valid place, just not here (for those of you curious that place is Concord).

Good luck everyone for the next 300 entries to this thread, hope it makes you all achieve that sense of accomplishment your looking for while officially changing nothing at all.

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by Mr. Moyer

Here we go again, another thread which will degenerate to name calling and cutting/pasting prior comments. Why don't all of you just agree to disagree, and deal with this topic through the statehouse.
Good luck everyone for the next 300 entries to this thread, hope it makes you all achieve that sense of accomplishment your looking for while officially changing nothing at all.

Here is a good old fashion AMEN

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Are you saying the Lake George speed limits have not been a success?
Are you saying the accident rate on Lake George is worse since speed limits?
Did anyone ever claim a speed limit on Winnipesaukee would prevent all accidents?

Or is this report just sour grapes sensationalism of an event unrelated to speed limits?

“Often we hear that the implementation of speed limits on Lake George has been a success.“ Yep Skip, we’ve heard that often. Skip continues “Unless and until you consider a CRIME like this.” Thanks for something to consider Skip.

Skip said speed limits didn't seem to have any effect on the drivers choice to BUI. We should all be able to agree to that FACT, even BI. The drunk was charged with violating the speed limit. This story somehow involves speed limits.

The speeding boat on Lake George (the one with the 40 mph speed limit) flies through the air and lodges between trees (in the above news report). The driver was charged with: boating while intoxicated, reckless operation of a vessel and exceeding the 5 mph speed limit. All laws and regulations already in place on Winnie (well 6 mph instead of 5) without HB847 and NOT a violation of their 40 mph speed limit. That's what it is, period.

I can't speak for Skip but I believe Skip's post stands on it's own. Skip is not saying anything more than he already said - leaving the reader to reflect on the information. The possibilities are not limited to BI's queries or 4 choices. Skip said speed limits didn't seem to have any effect on the drivers choice to Boat Under the Influence (BUI). We should all be able to agree to that FACT, even BI.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

“Often we hear that the implementation of speed limits on Lake George has been a success.“ Yep Skip, we’ve heard that often. Skip continues “Unless and until you consider a CRIME like this.” Thanks for something to consider Skip.

Skip said speed limits didn't seem to have any effect on the drivers choice to BUI. We should all be able to agree to that FACT, even BI. The drunk was charged with violating the speed limit. This story somehow involves speed limits.

The speeding boat on Lake George (the one with the 40 mph speed limit) flies through the air and lodges between trees (in the above news report). The driver was charged with: boating while intoxicated, reckless operation of a vessel and exceeding the 5 mph speed limit. All laws and regulations already in place on Winnie (well 6 mph instead of 5) without HB847 and NOT a violation of their 40 mph speed limit. That's what it is, period.

I can't speak for Skip but I believe Skip's post stands on it's own. Skip is not saying anything more than he already said - leaving the reader to reflect on the information. The possibilities are not limited to BI's queries or 4 choices. Skip said speed limits didn't seem to have any effect on the drivers choice to Boat Under the Influence (BUI). We should all be able to agree to that FACT, even BI.

And I say AMEN to this post.Wake up people.

[Mashugana]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

And I say AMEN to this post.Wake up people.

I agree with the Skipper and with SIKSUKR. Let's not use another informative post from Skip as the beginning of the same old debate.

Mr. Moyer's post made me decide not to comment on the news story or Bear Islander.

Ditto to Skipper of the Sea Que and SIKSUKR. Thank you to Skip for the information.

Let us all agree to boat safely and say AMEN.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Are you saying the Lake George speed limits have not been a success?

Are you saying the accident rate on Lake George is worse since speed limits?

Did anyone ever claim a speed limit on Winnipesaukee would prevent all accidents?

Or is this report just sour grapes sensationalism of an event unrelated to speed limits?

Winfabs says this is a 'model' lake. Where everyone is 'happy'.

This and the decapitation last year is a cause for concern. That is why I don't buy having a speed limit. It does nothing.

[VtSteve]

1) She was charged with BUI
2) She was cited for driving over the 5 MPH speed limit where she crashed
3) AIS

_______________________________

A more recent accident there: Rental Boat

http://lake-george-news.newslib.com/story/5719-3172549/
6/22/08
"Authorities are investigating a boating accident on Basin Bay in Lake George that sent four people to the hospital Saturday afternoon.

The accident occurred around 2:50 p.m. when Naimoi Motihlall, 20, of the Bronx, operating a 15-foot Boston Whaler, apparently did not see buoys near Rush Island and struck rocks, officials said. The impact propelled a passenger into the water while the others were thrown from their seats, said authorities.

Motihlall, her brother Sham Motihlall, 25, Rehane Khemai, 20, and 2-year-old Sham Khemai were all transported to Glens Falls Hospital for treatment. Another passenger, Fernando A. Morillo, 19, was not injured.

Members of the Warren County Sheriff's Department's Marine Patrol, Lake George Park Commission and Bolton Emergency Squad responded to the scene."
________________________________________________

[2Blackdogs]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

This and the decapitation last year is a cause for concern.

The only "decapitation" I can find leads to this 36 Spectre blowover.

You need to take Tres Martin's class on the tunnel tab issue. Remember the founder of Bonefish grill, Chris Parker blew over a big power 36 Spectre in Tampa Bay and decapitated himself and nearly killed the two girls with him.

[2Blackdogs]

I agree with Mr Moyer on the name-calling, and CSQ has several errors in his last paragraph.

I LIKE that the driver was charged with violating the 5 mph limit near shore. Why hasn't this been a part of Winni's enforcement practice when boats run onto islands?

[2Blackdogs]

Originally Posted by Skip

Often we hear that the implementation of speed limits on Lake George has been a success.

Unless and until you consider a CRIME like this.

Apparently the widely publicized speed limits on this particular lake had no effect on this woman's decision to break a number of boating regulations.

Originally Posted by Skip

Often we hear that the implementation of speed limits on Lake George has been a success.

Unless and until you consider a CRIME like this.

Apparently the widely publicized speed limits on this particular lake had no effect on this woman's decision to break a number of boating regulations.

To call it a CRIME is to deny the woman her presumption of innocence before the law.

Most officers of the court would use the word "alleged".

[Skip]

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

To call it a CRIME is to deny the woman her presumption of innocence before the law.

Most officers of the court would use the word "alleged".

You are absolutely correct, and I will immediately edit the post for the correct verbiage.

My apologies and thanks for pointing that out.....

Skip