Final Statements on HB-847

[webmaster]

Before suspending the speed limit debates on this site indefinitely I will allow each member one post to make a statement.

This thread is intended for final thoughts about the signing into law of HB-847, not to attack or provoke other members. Please stick to the topic.

If you post a second message in this thread it will be removed, regardless of the content.

When activity stops the Speed Limit Forum and topic will be closed until events justify reopening it.

Click here to view the last "Closing Statements" thread when HB-162 failed to pass in 2006.

[ITD]

Thank you Don, Good riddance to bad news........... and don't forget, it's the "wild west" out there.....

[VtSteve]

Boaters everywhere can only hope for one thing. People in boating clubs across the nation, including most performance boat organizations, have been pushing for more and better enforcement of the existing laws. Additional laws are supported if the need arises and makes sense.

State by state, lake by lake, the same problems are being seen. Accidents caused by inattention, drunk drivers, careless and negligent. People don't obey NWZ's, distance rules, much of anything. While so much time and effort is placed on speed limits, enforcement remains well behind the times. Almost everywhere enforcement's budgets are either cut, or they lose ground to rising costs.

If you really care about safety and boating, start to do something about enforcement.

[Skip]

In the end, nothing perceptible will change.....

[EricP]

This is a feel good law that will change nothing. I believe that something needs to change out there to improve everyone's enjoyment of the lake, but this isn't it. Honestly even requiring boater certification isn't enough either, I see 150' violations every time I go out and these people are supposed to have taken and passed a test! There's still work to be done to enforce the safe passage law and also to keep it on everyone's mind while they are boating. I watch people "whipping" in skiers all the time and they come within 25' of their own swim rafts (the boat that is) while there are people in the water swimming! These are the things we need to fix to make boating safer. Education and enforcement of existing laws, not a speed limit, will go a long way to a safer lake for all of us.

[chipj29]

All I ask is for everyone, opponents and proponents alike, is to be safe on the water. If you see a Captain Bonehead, educate them* rather than swear at them (*if possible). I don't think that speed is a problem on the lake, the problem is ignorance of the laws that are currently in place. They just need to be enforced.

In the end, not much will change in the next 2 years. All one needs to do is look at the number of accidents directly caused by speeds over 45/25. How many were there before the speed limit, and how many were there in the 2 years of the speed limit. That is how the effect of the law should be statistically determined. If the baseline is zero, then the law cannot possibly prevent any accidents.

[SIKSUKR]

I've already said enough on this subject.Thanks again Don for providing the stage to hear the different viewpoints.We''ll meet back here in the summer(?) of 2010.

[kthy66]

It is just a "Feel Good Law" as Eric stated.
This law is not going to make people use common sense.
It will not make people stop driving under the influence.
It will not make people respect others on the lake.
It will not make people obey boating laws anymore than they do now.
If MP cannot enforce the current laws; How can they enforce new ones?
I wish this law were the magic pill but it is not.

[Seeker]

Just goes to prove you can fool most of the NH legislature most of the time. Where is Joe Friday when you need him with "Just the facts ma'am."

Maybe now we can get back to a civilized forum.

[Airwaves]

The only thing I can add to the above statements is that this is an unfunded law.

If the NHMP commits manpower to enforce it then something else will suffer.

The statistics don't show a need for this law and it will ultimately produce bigger problems on the lake than we have now.

This law needs to be allowed to sunset and we all need to focus on ways to provide more funding for the NHMP so they can enforce the laws that really do impact boating safety on the lake.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

My hope is that in 2011 this will be chalked up with the greats of all time. For Example:

1. Chicken Little

2. The boy who cried Wolf!!!

[parrothead]

There can be a million more laws passed, but until there is enough manpower to enforce those laws there will not be much change in the actions of boaters. This law gives the legislators something to point at and say they are doing something, when in fact the speed limit will not make the lake safer. Education and enforcement will make the lake a safer. Have a good rest of the boating season, it's way too short!!

[Ryan]

That's all that is needed.

Enjoy the rest of the summer!

[jeffk]

Resources will be pulled from other enforcement activities to attempt to enforce this law. After all the stink about the need for speed limits the MP will have to prove that effort was put into its enforcement. We will have Marine Patrols sitting out waiting to clock someone exceeding the speed limits, which doesn't happen very often anyway. At the same time boneheads will still be BUI, cutting too close to other boaters, causing problems with their wake, failing to yield ROW, violating no wake zones, and generally making boating less safe. It will just be less likely that the bonehead will be pulled over because the MP is bobbing on the lake waiting to write the one type of ticket that will justify this useless law.

Since there was no real justification for the law in the first place it will be interesting to see the justification for its continuation past 2011.

Not usually true at the lake but Sunset can't come fast enough.

[Bear Islander]

It is regrettable that this law will inconvenience many responsible performance boaters.

It is also regrettable that the opposition chose a “no limit” position instead of working for a compromise. I hope that in two years an exception for the Broads can be written into the law. However if the opposition continues with “no limits”, they have already lost.

There will be no data collected in the next two years that will argue against HB847. A low, or zero, accident rate will indicate it is working. A high accident rate will indicate that even more restrictions are required. A no win scenario for the opposition. The argument that fewer restrictions will decrease accidents is counterintuitive. That is not the way politicians think.

The argument that this is feel good legislation that will change nothing has ALREADY been proven wrong. On this very forum we have heard that some performance boats have already left, and that more will be leaving. In another post a member has decided not to upgrade to a performance boat. These are the first proofs that HB847 has, and will, change the lake. It is doing exactly what it was intended to do, reduce performance boating on the lake.

More and more lakes are placing restrictions on performance boats. I do not wish Winnipesaukee to be the lake they migrate to.

Powerful arguments have been made for increased education and enforcement. Great ideas. But expensive ideas that will never be funded are useless ideas. Worse than useless when they divert attention away from methods that can be enacted for little or no money, like speed limits.

The lake will never go back to what it was years ago. But we can slow the proliferation of boats that are to big and to fast for a crowded lake. For decades the average boat length and horsepower have been increasing. This increases pollution and erosion and leads to an inequitable use of a limited public resource. A speed limit is the first step at reversing, or at least slowing, this trend.

[Turtle Boy]

A few final thoughts on "feel good" legislation . When the speed limit forum reconvenes in the future, I hope the phrase takes a permenant leave of absence. Why? Of course it's feel good legislation. I feel good that boats can no longer legally scream by my boat at 70 MPH when I'm fishing with my grandson. I feel good that after so many years that the people who own the lake get to take some control back from a minority of high impact users. I feel good that the house,senate, and governor listened to what the people wanted and ignored all the hype about legislation based on "fear and emotion". I feel good that those who want to go fast still can (45 MPH is still very fast). I feel good that people will have 2 years to see that a great deal of fun can still be had on Winni. I feel good because we'll get to see that the whole Lakes Region economy doesn't go down the toilet because of "feel good" legislation. And why would anyone want to enact "feel bad" legislation anyway? I feel good because Don has allowed an opportunity for us all to debate this topic. Thankyou(that felt good).

[jrc]

First of all thanks Don.

Second I hope the posters on both sides, now have more time to be positive and helpful. Ask and answer some questions about restaurants, grocery stores, fishing, fixing your boat, kayaking spots, and swimming holes. Tell us the good things that keep you coming to the lake. I plan to try and I hope you all will.

[MAXUM]

It's sad to see that the state had to resort to this, but I do think it was the prudent thing to do all things considered. Suppose only time will tell if it makes any difference.

[Evenstar]

I’ve tried to patiently explain what a sea kayak is – with the response being that “it’s still just a kayak”. I’ve been told that kayaks are just toys and that they have no business being out on the main lake. I’ve been told that I should stick to ponds. I have been told that I don’t have the experience to tell if a lake is safe for me. I’ve been told that I should just accept the risks from high-speed boaters if I want to paddle on the main lake. I’ve been told that my fears are unfounded, or that I’m exaggerating them. I’ve even been accused of lying, when I’ve posted about some of the close calls I have had.

A lake is for recreation – it’s not a high speed transportation system. And it’s not a race course. It’s really hard to relax much and have fun, when you spend much of your boating time being concerned about your personal safety from high-speed power boaters. No one here has been able to show a reason why they have to exceed 45 mph on the lake – other than “it is fun” or because they own a boat that is capable of going faster than 45 mph. In my opinion, these reasons hardly justify putting other boaters in danger.

This law will make a huge difference on the lake. I’ve paddled on Squam for years, where a speed limit has been successfully enforced for many years. So I’ve experienced the difference a lake speed limit makes, and it is a very noticeable difference for us paddlers. No, a speed limit won’t fix all the problems, but it will make the lake safer – since, will all else being equal, slower is safer.

I believe in freedom too, but we have laws mainly because everyone's right to liberty ends where it intrudes on someone else's liberty. We wouldn’t need most of our laws if everyone was truly concerned with (and understood) how their actions affect others. But unfortunately some people don’t really care (or truly understand) how their actions (and their words) affect others.

It is a shame that some members of this forum can’t have a debate without resorting to personal attacks on anyone who has opposing views. There have been posts made just to poke fun at me or to insult my abilities, my skills, or my intelligence. I’m going to have to think long and hard about remaining a member here, as I have been hurt really badly by some members – not only by the way that I have been treated in many posts, but by also with hateful pms that have made all sorts of bigoted comments about me – just because I am different.

[BroadHopper]

We all agree that the lake is getting crowded, be it paddling, sailing or motorboating. We all agree for safe and sensible laws to protect property and safety to humans. The clause for reasonable and prudent speed will be sufficient to satisfy the majority. We do need this to ensure enjoyment of the lake for all who use it.
When the law reach its sunset, I hope the reasonable and prudent speed clause become permanant. Even though the 25/45 limit is arbitrary, it cause so much debate as to why this is set. Let it rest.

Lets us continue in peace and happiness.