Sailing

I'm amazed at the lack of dialogue on this forum about sailing. We always knew there were hundreds of would-be sailors around would take to the water as soon as it became safe to do so again, and this summer has proven that out. I counted over thirty sails in one view across the Broads one recent Sunday afternoon. Reading this forum, one would get the false impression that Winnipesaukee is of no use unless one has a performance boat and is allowed to boat as fast as he can, but this summer has surely proven otherwise. When I was a boy in my sailfish, this lake and Champlain were considered the premiere fresh water yachting destinations in the Northeast, and numerous major yachting events were held in the Broads. Hoping the sailing associations will see that Winnipesaukee is open for business again and start scheduling events here again.

[Winnipesaukee]

Nope, there are definitely sailors on this forum!

[jrc]

I'm no expert on sailing but I do have a lot of friends that sail Winnipesaukee. My marina is about is about 20% sailboats.

For most of them Winni is a tough place to sail. Either the winds are light and unpredictable as they swirl around the mountains and islands or the winds are blowing straight down the Broads at 20 knots.

Being true sailors, they make the best of it and find away to have a good time.

[ishoot308]

Every Thursday afternoon there are sailboat races on the lake. Yesterday the races were right in front of my camp on Welch. It was an awesome sight to see all those sails up with the sun setting in the background. There is a very active sailboat crowd on the lake and they are a wonderful bunch. I had the opportunity to meet many of them through my neighbor who is quite active with the races and can tell you first hand how much fun they have!

Dan

[Lakegeezer]

Sailing in M'boro bay is great and I try to get out there every chance I get. There are often a few other sailboats out there. When younger, there was a nearby lake which had informal races every Saturday 10-12 for whoever showed. It would be nice to have that around here. Those in the northeast quadrant can't really make it to the broads without an hour of sailing/motoring.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Every Thursday afternoon there are sailboat races on the lake. Yesterday the races were right in front of my camp on Welch. It was an awesome sight to see all those sails up with the sun setting in the background.

308, sort of looks like this?

Yes fun to watch.

Slick

[NoBozo]

I'm just picturing a fleet of sailboats (Thursday night racing) approaching the downwind "mark" in a Stiff Breeze with spinnakers set and doing 8-10 knots.... Maybe even faster if they are planing. Anyone who has ever raced can picture this colorful sight.

So how would the 150' rule work under those conditions...?? What with ALL those boats wanting to round the mark as close as possable and begin the upwind leg... and all the other boats in very close proximity as well. What's a sailor to do? Just wondering.

Actually since sailboat discussions are rarely brought up, and the 150' rule comes up so often, I thought I would bring it up as it might apply to sailboats.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

308, sort of looks like this?

Yes fun to watch.

Slick

Slickcraft;

Thats the EXACT sight I saw!!

It really was a beautiful evening!

Dan

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

308, sort of looks like this?

Yes fun to watch.

Slick

Slickcraft,
Yes, that is just the type of view I was mentioning. A beautiful sight. Sorry if I hit a nerve in my post with a couple of the performance boaters. Did not mean it that way. In fact, a picture of the poker race discussed in the other thread would probably be just as colorful. As far as the "sharing" comment, I don't think that is fair. I had actually felt that the lake was not being shared until this year, but did not want to stir that nest. Actually, last year was pretty good too as the traffic seemed a lot slower than it had been for many years before. Don't know why. But this year has been markedly more sailor-friendly, and my goal was just to point that out so that anyone else still unsure about getting out there might be willing. Winnipesaukee had developed a reputation the past few years as being to too crazy for sailing, but that is just not the case anymore. Maybe crazy would have been a better "calibrated" word than unsafe.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Every Thursday afternoon there are sailboat races on the lake. Yesterday the races were right in front of my camp on Welch. It was an awesome sight to see all those sails up with the sun setting in the background. There is a very active sailboat crowd on the lake and they are a wonderful bunch. I had the opportunity to meet many of them through my neighbor who is quite active with the races and can tell you first hand how much fun they have!

Dan

I was over near Silver Sands a couple of week back and there were quite a few Sailboats navigating around some big Yellow Blow Up buoys. I assumed it was a race of some sort. It looked so awesome though. My kids loved it. We hung out and watched for a little while.

[VtSteve]

My first sailboat was a friend's Sunfish. I had an Oday 23' in CT. I really don't have any time for sailing right now, which requires a little more planning than just "take a spin around the lake". Winni is a difficult lake to sail as someone suggested. I'm in Malletts Bay on Champlain, which is virtually infested with sailboats from Lasers to rather large sailing craft. It's quite difficult to get out of the bay on weekends, but it is a pretty site. We usually have wind to spare, and it rarely is swirly wind.

[SIKSUKR]

OK, my impression was that instead of the thread asking about sailing here on Winni, it was more about making a statement against powerboats and the speed limit sandwiched in between.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

OK, my impression was that instead of the thread asking about sailing here on Winni, it was more about making a statement against powerboats and the speed limit sandwiched in between.

OH man I had to bite my tongue so hard but I decided not to wade into the B.S. in that original post and chose to breathe deep and respond with a positive post regarding sailboats. Now that you said something I'll bite.... Unfortunately the original poster had to throw digs in his or her post. It is a shame that this thread couldn't have just been started without backhanded comments towards that other topic. Oh well.

[JPC]

Fay's Boat Yard has, I believe, the largest number of sail boats of any of the marinas on the lake. I sail out of Fay's on a 28 Peason. The sailing this year has had its ups and downs. There were a few times my wife refused to go out because it was blowing 20+. Then, like last weekend, it was light and at time rainy. Hell, its been rainy a lot. In past years. when there was no wind, we would go anchor somewhere and go swimming/relax. This year its been too cold until last week.

PS: when its blowing good some of the guys get togehter on one boat and go for an excelerating run.

[no-engine]

I grew up sailing, on coast but do not sail much now - do not own a sail boat.

I just replied to a friend's post on FaceBook, that she was taking adult sailing lessons, and I stated that it's a life-long sport one will never grow out of.

I've sailed with friends on the Lake; when I am given the tiller, the feel is never gone and I can sense the boat & wind acting together.

My long since gone grandfather was one of a team who started a sailing organization; he also wrote books on sailing rules, for racing.

To the post about 150' does not come in to play in an organized sail boat race!

Sailing will never leave my blood, nor anyone else's once they start!


Last thought for now: some of the State's "regulations" for boating were pushed thru the legislature by the legislator living on the lake, doing som ething that was for their own personal gain!

[Dave R]

I have not noticed any difference in the amount of sailboats this year as compared to years when sailing not "safe to do".

I bet a lot of the power boat owners that post here also sail(ed). I have done quite a bit of sailing and if I lived on the lake, I'd surely have a sailboat. For a trailer boater like me, sailing's just not feasible.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by elchase

I'm amazed at the lack of dialogue on this forum about sailing. We always knew there were hundreds of would-be sailors around would take to the water as soon as it became safe to do so again, and this summer has proven that out. I counted over thirty sails in one view across the Broads one recent Sunday afternoon. Reading this forum, one would get the false impression that Winnipesaukee is of no use unless one has a performance boat and is allowed to boat as fast as he can, but this summer has surely proven otherwise. When I was a boy in my sailfish, this lake and Champlain were considered the premiere fresh water yachting destinations in the Northeast, and numerous major yachting events were held in the Broads. Hoping the sailing associations will see that Winnipesaukee is open for business again and start scheduling events here again.

Interesting, I never saw a closed to sailing sign at ony point on the lake. Its called sharing and the majority do it well. The others are what we call boneheads regardless if they are burning gas or filling sails.

[dykg]

Does anyone know of any sailboat rides on the lake. We use to always take a ride on the Queen of Winnepesaukee but as you all know, it is no longer here.Any suggestions. would love to take the family on a sailboat ride.

[Slickcraft]

On our way in or out of Smith Cove we often see the young kids having a great time in the little boats. One very young group in dinghy size sailboats and another group with maybe 12' boats having both main and jib sails. A few days ago the older group had a race going on a small course, great to see young kids in that kind of activity. Future J80 racers! There are always at least two powered instructor boats along. The school is run out of Fay's Boat Yard.

Info on the school and J80 racing:
http://www.lwsa.org/index.php

My wife has always said that the sailboat folk really enjoy the lake.

[sky_nh]

Wow. Some of the power boaters on this forum are not only reckless but paranoid as well. The original poster made a simple observation about sailing on the lake, which then incredibly was interpreted as an attack on their "right" to speed.

It's great to know more sailors are "sharing" Winnipesaukee. I have no doubt that recent legislation has made it a safer, more pleasant experience for all (including kayakers).

-- Sky

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by sky_nh

Wow. Some of the power boaters on this forum are not only reckless but paranoid as well. The original poster made a simple observation about sailing on the lake, which then incredibly was interpreted as an attack on their "right" to speed. -- Sky

I completely agree. I wondered when someone would bring that up. I have sailed for over 40 years ...not on Winni, but offshore. I still enjoy sailing. I am now too old to be handling sails on every tack so I now have a Little DONZI. OMG: A stinkin GFBL. I enjoy both....AND I understand the prejudices both encounter from the other. Just sayin.

[BeaverIslandGuy]

I grew up sailing on this lake, first Sunfish and Lightnings and then onto bigger boats to my J-29. Sailed out of here and Winnipesaukee Yacht Club for years until I moved away.

This is a great lake to sail on, and the flukey winds make it challenging. If they are still doing it, the great overnight around-the-lake race should be coming up in about a week (normally August full moon). Goes Sat dusk until finish on Sunday noon.

As for the question about the 150 ft rule, in an organized sailboat race, there are rules of engagement between two boats (in terms of who has right of way), but the only distance rule is you can't hit the other boat under any circumstances. In all the years of racing (40+), I never even thought about the 150 ft rule when racing.

[hazelnut]

Sky, NoBozo and others.... I am not a performance boater and I have never been one. The most hysterical part of all of these debates is that most of the people that were "on the other side" are not "performance boaters." I own a BOWRIDER capable of 49MPH. That is the fastest boat I have EVER owned. My observations could not be more unbiased IMO. I support ALL activities on the lake. I own more NON powered boats than powered boats. (2 Kayaks, 1 Canoe to 2 Power Boats, 1 Bowrider, 1 50HP Whaler). So PLEASE SKY_NH and others do not lump me in with "performance boaters" as I am NOT one.

My comment stands. I am sorry but I felt the original post from elchase was misleading. If he/she really feels the need to claim that winni was UNSAFE for sailboats prior to the garbage legislature that passed last year that is B.S. In and inflammatory IMO. sorry if you disagree but that is my honest opinion. This is the statement is nothing but conjecture and unfounded criticism and biased opinion as far as I am concerned:
"We always knew there were hundreds of would-be sailors around would take to the water as soon as it became safe to do so again...Reading this forum, one would get the false impression that Winnipesaukee is of no use unless one has a performance boat and is allowed to boat as fast as he can, .... Hoping the sailing associations will see that Winnipesaukee is open for business again and start scheduling events here again."

As for the Sailing comments I agree... Great to see those beautiful boats out on the lake.

[bigdog]

Can anyone recommend a business/marina/sailing club on Lake Winni where I could rent a small sailboat for the day.

I know Fays Boat Yard in Gilford has rentals, are there other marinas or clubs you would know which rent?

Need something between 14-18 feet.

Wife recently took sailing lessons for a month, she/we would like to spend a day on the lake sailing.

Thanks,
Bigdog

Why are some people on this forum so sensitive and argumentative? I chose the wrong word. I was not PC. I apologized. I should not have implied that sailing seemed less safe when boats were allowed to drive as fast as they wanted. I should have put it a way that I think everyone can agree...it was crazy out there. I should have just said what I think we all agree on...the lake is much saner this year. I had lost my interest in fishing and sailing before last summer. I was just not enjoying these more passive activities in the aggressive environment that our lake had become. I had given up much of my boating too. Just as you are allowed to your opinion, I am entitled to mine, and that is it. Last summer, things started to seem more sane. I don't know why. The economy and weather were not excuses then. We did not have "the law" yet, although I suppose the MP test did have many boaters slowing down. But whatever the reason, last summer was great. This summer is better. I am sailing and fishing again and enjoying both. I'm hearing a lot of friends say the same things. Please don't put words in my mouth or try to make this into a speed limit debate so you can have me blackballed from the forum. I know from what I've seen in other threads how those who dare express disagreement with the "speed limits are bad" attitude are persecuted and branded trolls. That is not me. But that does not mean I have to wimp out and pretend I don't like the present environment on the lake.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by elchase

Last summer, things started to seem more sane. I don't know why. The economy and weather were not excuses then.

I would bet power boat traffic was way down last year due to the $4+ per gallon gasoline.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by elchase

Why are some people on this forum so sensitive and argumentative? I chose the wrong word. I was not PC. I apologized. I should not have implied that sailing seemed less safe when boats were allowed to drive as fast as they wanted. I should have put it a way that I think everyone can agree...it was crazy out there. I should have just said what I think we all agree on...the lake is much saner this year. I had lost my interest in fishing and sailing before last summer. I was just not enjoying these more passive activities in the aggressive environment that our lake had become. I had given up much of my boating too. Just as you are allowed to your opinion, I am entitled to mine, and that is it. Last summer, things started to seem more sane. I don't know why. The economy and weather were not excuses then. We did not have "the law" yet, although I suppose the MP test did have many boaters slowing down. But whatever the reason, last summer was great. This summer is better. I am sailing and fishing again and enjoying both. I'm hearing a lot of friends say the same things. Please don't put words in my mouth or try to make this into a speed limit debate so you can have me blackballed from the forum. I know from what I've seen in other threads how those who dare express disagreement with the "speed limits are bad" attitude are persecuted and branded trolls. That is not me. But that does not mean I have to wimp out and pretend I don't like the present environment on the lake.

Elchase, there is no question that the lake is saner this year. Unfortunately, a great many, myself included, believe that the real reason is the poor economy. We have all seen many boats that have never even been uncovered for the season- the owners just decided to leave them winterized. I think when the economy improves, we will see a return of most of the craziness.

I do disagree with your point about last summer- gas on the lake was pushing or exceeded $5/gallon, virtually everyone became more thrifty and boated less- I believe there was even a poll regarding it.

Many of us who are percieved as anti-speed limit don't even own or want to own boats that can break it (I almost got lapped by a pontoon boat a few weeks ago!). Most of us own and use canoes and sailboats (Lazer in our case). When not sailing, my 14 year old son and his 11 year old sister can often be found in his 12 foot skiff with an 8 horse Merc patrolling the Greens Basin end of the lake. I have a vested interest in keeping the lake as safe as possible.

The real us versus them needs to become the safe boater versus the bonehead boater, not slow versus fast. The answer is to rid the lake of bad boaters. There is no way that many boaters on the lake studied for and passed their boating certificate course. Even though my son is not old enough to take his safety course, I had him study and pass the practice test prior to allowing him to boat alone.

I was sincere in my comment about sharing the lake- I want to do so with good boaters, slow and fast. I want to eradicate bad boaters, slow and fast.

I apologize if I misread your original post and hope you enjoy the fabulous weather we are supposed to have today.

[VtSteve]

VB on target as usual. The vast majority of boaters, at any given point in time, are doing between 20mph and under 40 mph. If you get a lot of boats going every which way, it can, and often does, look like total chaos. Last year it was the high gas prices, this year it's unemployment and the economy. People get a little bent out of shape worrying about their retirements accounts and what lies ahead.

According to my dad, Winni was crazy in the 70's and never got better. It is what it is. If you really want to read something so true it's shameful, this is it.

The real us versus them needs to become the safe boater versus the bonehead boater, not slow versus fast. The answer is to rid the lake of bad boaters.

That's really the summation of threads from the last few years. None of us likes crazy, nor dangerous, on the road or on the water. We know the issues, and understand the problems. We try not to rationalize them, but identify them. There really is no us versus them. It's really more those that get it, and those that do not.

We were to go tubing today, not one of my favorite activities. First, I must navigate (zig-zag) around a hundred sailboats or so, deal with 15 to 20-knot winds, and stay within the bay because it's going to be a pretty rough day. Pretty much the deal all summer excepting the 90% rainy days. I only worry about other tubers, the usual boneheads that change course for no man, and the occasional fisherman that troll across the narrow channel.

The bigger and faster boats take to the open water and cruise out there. I wish I could, but the 2 to 5 foot waves slow me down a little bit Some of the real nuts, like myself, wish gas were $6 a gallon to cut down on the boneheads and we could selfishly enjoy the lake themselves. But alas, it's a big world out there, and they all share it. As a kid, I used to take my little 12' aluminum boat with trusty 5hp Gale Buccaneer engine everywhere. I went from Meredith Neck to Sally's gut, down to the Weirs and channel, many times out to Silver Sands area, sometimes even in the Broads My biggest problems were the Sophie, big cruisers, and a few bucks gas money.

I don't what what people's frame of reference is, but there's always been a tremendous difference between weekday and weekend boating, everywhere. Many of us that grew up on big lakes had to take the good with the bad, or be relegated to small puddles and ponds. As on the roadways, there are those that perceive danger at every turn, and may very well just lose their nerve endings as they age. Perceptions change, even if nothing really has changed. I'm sure many people would love to see Winni with only a few dozen boats tops, nice calm water, gentle breezes, and free lollipops for everyone. Not gonna happen.

As has been suggested many times, if someone's being a bonehead, call it in. If nobody responds, oh well. There are many opportunities to nail them, provided the MP has the desire, and the resources. Much of the "aggressive environment" on most lakes has evolved as people with little or no experience bring their attitudes out on the water. Education has little impact on these folks generally, but enforcement does. I assume if it were such a huge problem, as has been indicated over the last year, the State would have put much more funding into eliminating the wildness. They did not.

So I'll take a hint from Skip here. Until I start hearing and reading verifiable reports of mayhem and accidents all over the lake from aggressive boaters, I'll assume it's a "perceived" problem and not a real one. There was an accident with a PWC this year, the boat on island last year, and a bad one years before that. When you're reading about accidents and fatalities every week, boat wrecks all over the place, then there's an out of hand problem. If it's many witnessed close calls, swamped canoes and kayaks, actual intimidation and people fleeing for their lives, I'd be hearing from the marine patrol, the local news, and people would be calling the MP every minute of the day. Since they report none of that, I'll assume it's not occurring. How many times did you report dangerous boaters to the MP during the last few years? I know that if our neighborhood reports problems to the police here, they act.

[fatlazyless]

Anybody know if the cleaning product 'oxyclean' which is a paste will work to remove a few rust stains from a white dacron sail on a sailboat. It is expensive....so...maybe it will work? Any recommendations for removing rust stains?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

Why are some people on this forum so sensitive and argumentative? I chose the wrong word. I was not PC. I apologized. I should not have implied that sailing seemed less safe when boats were allowed to drive as fast as they wanted. I should have put it a way that I think everyone can agree...it was crazy out there. I should have just said what I think we all agree on...the lake is much saner this year.....

You should have. But you didn't. That is why I got mad at the implication. That was your choice to bring speed into this and I and others merely replied. BTW- Nobody wants to get you or anyone "Blackballed." I think VB and Vt eloquently stated the real problems that plague the lake.

That said I really hope you continue to enjoy sailing this year. I hope the weather cooperates for August.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

I got mad at the implication.

Thanks, but I must say that I find it a bit weird that people would get "mad at the implication" that speeding boats were making him feel unsafe. People on this forum certainly seem encouraged to express their opinions about other things that bother or scare them without getting anyone "mad", but as soon as someone says he did not feel safe trying to sail and fish, others get "mad". Seems an awfully silly thing to get "mad" about. What other topics should I avoid to be sure that I don't get anyone "mad" at me?

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by elchase

Thanks, but I must say that I find it a bit weird that people would get "mad at the implication" that speeding boats were making him feel unsafe. People on this forum certainly seem encouraged to express their opinions about other things that bother or scare them without getting anyone "mad", but as soon as someone says he did not feel safe trying to sail and fish, others get "mad". Seems an awfully silly thing to get "mad" about. What other topics should I avoid to be sure that I don't get anyone "mad" at me?

Oh el... ha ha ha 9 posts and already trying to stir the pot huh. Well I am not "mad" at your post. I usually only respond to constructive members of the forum. Anyway I do welcome you and hope you contribute more to the forum in the future. I suppose I shouldn't have gotten mad as I said. My point was obviously lost on you so I could spell it out but I won't. You seem smart enough to figure out my point as well as others. I just wish that this thread was started on a different note is all. Oh well...... whatever will be, will be.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by elchase

Thanks, but I must say that I find it a bit weird that people would get "mad at the implication" that speeding boats were making him feel unsafe. People on this forum certainly seem encouraged to express their opinions about other things that bother or scare them without getting anyone "mad", but as soon as someone says he did not feel safe trying to sail and fish, others get "mad". Seems an awfully silly thing to get "mad" about. What other topics should I avoid to be sure that I don't get anyone "mad" at me?

Please avoid any threads that imply the HN and I like eating- other than that, game on!

[BeaverIslandGuy]

Originally Posted by bigdog

Can anyone recommend a business/marina/sailing club on Lake Winni where I could rent a small sailboat for the day.

I know Fays Boat Yard in Gilford has rentals, are there other marinas or clubs you would know which rent?

Need something between 14-18 feet.

Wife recently took sailing lessons for a month, she/we would like to spend a day on the lake sailing.

Thanks,
Bigdog

I don't know who else rents, but I can highly recommend Fay's. They took great care of everyone I know for all the years I spent in "bigger" sailboats (i.e. more than a sunfish).

The staff there is good. They have a variety of boats. If you want a nice little one, a J-22 is great. My only caution is on weekends the channel out of Fays and between Locke and the mainland is a bit busy and rough, so you might want to do the weekday thing.

B.I.G.

[garysanfran]

I have used Oxyclean on my sails and it has worked well. It can have an affect on metal if left in contact for a while. I would suggest watering down the boat under the area you will be cleaning the sail (if left on the boat). This will dilute the spillage. Then I would hose the area as-soon-as-possible after the sail cleaning. You can also assume that any hull wax will be gone after contact with Oxyclean so you may want to rewax those areas.

Sailed San Francisco Bay for 20 years. Sold my 34' Sabre this year...So sad!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by jrc

"...Being true sailors, they make the best of it and find away to have a good time..."

My solution has been to own enough sailboats.

My smaller sailboats will find 4-knots of wind even when "Common Sense" tells you there is only a flat calm out there.

Larger sailboats can handle most any wind: I'm reminded of a photo-shoot on one of our Great Lakes. Two photographer's powerboats started with the sailboat to be reviewed—but arrived two hours later than the sailboat due to the extremely rough waters that can only be found on "The Great Lakes"!

Originally Posted by elchase

"...I'm amazed at the lack of dialogue on this forum about sailing..."

The number of sailing threads here is about .003% of all boating threads—to exclude the sub-forum threads—where sailing is even more invisible.

Some pressure could be taken off this "Boating" forum with a summer "Sailing" forum at a time when the "Snowmobiling" forum is quiet.

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

"...Is this really about lack of sailing talk...?"

Compare the number of sailboat threads—here—versus "powerboat" threads? Sometimes this forum resembles the boating forums at SOS.

Originally Posted by jrc

"...For most of them Winni is a tough place to sail..."

What winds there are will come up about 8AM, and often diminish around lunchtime—even to zero. That, and strong gusts, are typical of all "lake" sailing: Ocean breezes are consistent.

What distinguishes a sunny day on Lake Winnipesaukee is the weekend encounters with boat wakes: Taken astern, they can swamp the cockpit. Taken any other way, powerboat wakes (particularly in light winds) "take the wind out of sails" and can stop the sailboat's progress altogether.

Wakes that disrupt the continuous flow of wind across one's sails can leave you wallowing in still more wakes: It can get very hot with your progress halted in the sun—sometimes even whomped into moving backwards!

Having had two catamarans simultaneously here, I'd say that "cats" get "wake-struck" the worst in light winds, and may account for the relatively low number of Hobies since 1974, when I brought my first Hobie here.

(And, except for the "wake-jumping", bigger catamarans didn't make it get any better).

Originally Posted by NoBozo

"...I'm just picturing a fleet of sailboats (Thursday night racing) approaching the downwind "mark" in a Stiff Breeze with spinnakers set and doing 8-10 knots...Maybe even faster if they are planing...and all the other boats in very close proximity as well..."

The World Olympics include large racing fleets of sailboats that are pushing 30-MPH. The Olympics' rules are even more comprehensive than New Hampshire's boating laws and help to keep things under relative control: Every infraction is observed and penalties assessed by sharp-eyed judges.

(Say, don't judges just "ruin" boating?)

BTW: On Winnipesaukee, most "cat" capsizes are results of an overloaded boat, inexperience in cat-handling in sudden gusts or attempts to "push the speed envelope". Righting a larger cat (though I've never needed to do so) is a boating skill all to itself.

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...I have not noticed any difference in the amount of sailboats this year as compared to years when sailing not "safe to do"..."

Speaking for myself, I won't even begin sailing when it looks hazy and calm (thunderstorm weather) or rainy (no shelter, even for the skipper).

And we've had some rains here.

Originally Posted by Dave R

"...I bet a lot of the power boat owners that post here also sail(ed)..."

Sailing is not for those with the need for speed; however, there's nothing quite like shutting off the engine and "listening" to the waters under sails alone. Just like surfers will describe their choice of the non-powered skills in surfing, similarly, sailing could be also be described as "being close to God".

Originally Posted by VitaBene

"...Interesting, I never saw a closed to sailing sign at ony point on the lake..."

The gradual increase in average size of powerboats (and expanding "valet-storage" of such boats) can make sailing on weekends unpleasant.

"Wake surfing" and "wake-boarding" have added still more sailing difficulties since the 80s.

Originally Posted by VitaBene

"...Its called sharing and the majority do it well. The others are what we call boneheads regardless if they are burning gas or filling sails..."

Sailboats, for some reason, are invisible to many powerboaters out there: Just yesterday, I didn't return waved greetings from a boat as it passed within 2 canoe-lengths of me at moderate speed. One elderly woman passenger stared at me until I pointed back to the wake I was about to get soaked by.

The skipper then got a message I couldn't hear.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

"...I own more NON powered boats than powered boats. (2 Kayaks, 1 Canoe to 2 Power Boats, 1 Bowrider, 1 50HP Whaler). So PLEASE SKY_NH and others do not lump me in with "performance boaters" as I am NOT one..."

But we can't lump you in with sailing, either.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

"...As for the Sailing comments I agree... Great to see those beautiful boats out on the lake..."

And sailboats constitute nearly 100% of boats appearing in lakefront real estate ads!

Originally Posted by VitaBene

"...We have all seen many boats that have never even been uncovered for the season- the owners just decided to leave them winterized..."

Check out the mooring fields: Some are only 30% filled—and this is August!

Originally Posted by VitaBene

"...I was sincere in my comment about sharing the lake- I want to do so with good boaters, slow and fast. I want to eradicate bad boaters, slow and fast..."

Sailboaters and other "slow boaters" can benefit from using my DIY (and free for the making) "Powerboat-Excluder-Device". (It's an adaptation for a highly-reflective CD).

I mentioned it last season, and have been training many "distracted powerboaters" with one. If only a few sailors adopt the use of one, much will be gained by every boater.

IMNSHO.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...Sailing is not for those with the need for speed...

Then why does every sailing thread talk about racing?

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...And sailboats constitute nearly 100% of boats appearing in lakefront real estate ads!
...

Sailboats are pretty.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

....
Sailboaters and other "slow boaters" can benefit from using my DIY (and free for the making) "Powerboat-Excluder-Device". (It's an adaptation for a highly-reflective CD).

I mentioned it last season, and have been training many "distracted powerboaters" with one. If only a few sailors adopt the use of one, much will be gained by every boater.

Sailboats have a visibilty problem? Do you know how silly that sounds? If you shine one of those in my eyes, I will head over to see why you are signalling distress. How exactly does it exclude powerboats?

BTW a CD is not your best choice.

http://www.equipped.org/signal.htm

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

"...there is no question that the lake is saner this year..."

You weren't on the lake last Saturday?

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...According to my dad, Winni was crazy in the 70's and never got better..."

That's an understatement. I'm guessing that Cap'n Boneheads have a few things in common:
1) They are rentals, or
2) They are valet boaters, and
3) They have a "B" in their registration number. (Really!)

Originally Posted by jrc

"...why does every sailing thread talk about racing...?"

C'mon, we're not racing greyhounds.

Originally Posted by jrc

"...Sailboats are pretty..."

They're pretty, but more importantly, they're quiet—that's why sailboats are on those brochures!

Originally Posted by jrc

"...Sailboats have a visibilty problem? Do you know how silly that sounds...?

My catamaran had fancy sails and seemed to attract gawkers—as I wrote in 2004.

My present sail is nondescript, possibly accounting for how often I have a boat aiming directly at me—particularly on weekends.

Originally Posted by jrc

"...If you shine one of those in my eyes, I will head over to see why you are signalling distress..."

Nine out of ten times, the boat recognizes my distress and changes his direction to a safe course: I don't flash just anybody.

But...just last week in the Broads, a maroon-over-white Crownline continued his course directly at me in spite of my best efforts to warn him of his danger. As he passed (within about 80'), I saw that he was not at the helm (!) and was chatting with his passengers forward—in his bowrider!

(Registration # has a "B" in it).

The more "slow" boaters that put these free CDs to use, the more alert this lake's boaters will become.

Originally Posted by jrc

"...How exactly does it exclude powerboats...?

Those who have come to know which boat gives warnings by reflected sunlight alter their course long before any distress.

(That boat giving warnings?...would be mine )

Originally Posted by jrc

"...BTW a CD is not your best choice..."

I have a "first-surface" mirror that would be devastating in use: It's also expensive, and I'd hate to lose it overboard. However, blinding misguided boaters is hardly my goal.

CDs work for me: They're highly reflective, light in weight, free, can be selected for reflectivity, can be trimmed to size, and can attach easily to any baseball cap or golf visor. Instructions: Locate the reflection on your sail, tilt your head to align it with boom or deck, and a few flashes will do the job. It's no more offensive than the flash off a boat's windshield. Think of it as you might use a horn—responsibly—in traffic.

Lastly, when in sight of my residence, I can signal well ahead of my arrival, and lunch will be waiting!

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

....3) They have a "B" in their registration number. (Really!)

My scientific survey (with a sample size of three boats) Say that letter part of the hull number increments about every year. My samples are:

2002 NH XXXX BH
2005 NH XXXX BK
2008 NH XXXX BN

Working backwards, 1994 should have been the last year for boats without a "B''.

1994 NH XXXX AZ
1995 NH XXXX BA

So Capt Boneheads have "B" in their registration number because most of the boats on the lake have a "B" How many 15+ year old boats are there, 10%- 20%, I can only guess.

[ApS]

I've never mentioned before that your posts have always been analytical, reasoned, and thoughtful?

Yours would be called "an empirical study", though your sample size of three is...um...small.

And—like my long-time neighbors—a Lake Winnipesaukee experience of 15-years-plus with one's boat has a decent shot at staying a competent boater.

Great day out there yesterday. Fished four hours in the morning. Caught 7 salmon and 2 lakers. Then jumped in the day sailer for two hours in the afternoon. Very crowded and winds were sporadic, but no nonsense made it very enjoyable. Was back on the lake in the evening for two hours of bass fishing and a nice cigar. Winnipesaukee is such a great lake. No wind today.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I completely agree. I wondered when someone would bring that up. I have sailed for over 40 years ...not on Winni, but offshore. I still enjoy sailing. I am now too old to be handling sails on every tack so I now have a Little DONZI. OMG: A stinkin GFBL. I enjoy both....AND I understand the prejudices both encounter from the other. Just sayin.

Big or another, never give up! All us ol' sailors still enjoy the Lakes Region! "One Way, Or Another, I'm Go'in Getcha Getcha Getcha"!

"Oh, the bother"!.... "Toy Boat, Toy Boat Toy Boat"!

Sailing on The Great Lake Winnipesaukee, is very alive and well! "Every day, here in 2009!".... Our economy needs some work, however! Let us all add to it.

I joined this forum to talk about sailing, but then got myself dragged into fighting with the performance boating crowd here and in the other threads who refuse to allow anyone to disagree with them and have the opinion that the Speed Limit law is doing its job. I think if I said it was summer in August some of them would not give up until I agreed with them that it was winter. I've always been the type that refused to be told how to think, which does not fit well with those who refuse to let others think for themselves.
Let's get back to talking about sailing so I can get my mind off that nonsense. Maybe I can find a less hostile crowd here.
Any word on the winds this weekend yet?
Please no replies unless its about sailing.

[Slickcraft]

See Citizen article:
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...903/-1/CITIZEN

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by elchase

I joined this forum to talk about sailing, but then got myself dragged into fighting with the performance boating crowd here and in the other threads who refuse to allow anyone to disagree with them and have the opinion that the Speed Limit law is doing its job. I think if I said it was summer in August some of them would not give up until I agreed with them that it was winter. I've always been the type that refused to be told how to think, which does not fit well with those who refuse to let others think for themselves.
Let's get back to talking about sailing so I can get my mind off that nonsense. Maybe I can find a less hostile crowd here.
Any word on the winds this weekend yet?
Please no replies unless its about sailing.

I still don't understand why you insist on making the implication that everyone who disagrees with you about the speed limits is categorized as a "performance boater". As you can see in the "Opposers" thread, a vast majority of the posters don't even own performance boats. Feel free to explain yourself on one of the relevant threads if you so desire.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by elchase

I joined this forum to talk about sailing, but then got myself dragged into fighting with the performance boating crowd here and in the other threads who refuse to allow anyone to disagree with them and have the opinion that the Speed Limit law is doing its job. I think if I said it was summer in August some of them would not give up until I agreed with them that it was winter. I've always been the type that refused to be told how to think, which does not fit well with those who refuse to let others think for themselves.
Let's get back to talking about sailing so I can get my mind off that nonsense. Maybe I can find a less hostile crowd here.
Any word on the winds this weekend yet?
Please no replies unless its about sailing.

Sir or Madam, You know, as well as everyone else on this forum does, that your first post ever was inflammatory. It had nothing to do with sailing. In fact, until you asked about the winds this weekend, you had yet to post anything about sailing.

The "hostility" comes from you, I am just responding to your nonsense.

Finally, until you have the word moderator under your name, please don't tell people what they can respond to. This is a forum, not your soapbox.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by elchase

I joined this forum to talk about sailing, but then got myself dragged into fighting with the performance boating crowd here and in the other threads who refuse to allow anyone to disagree with them and have the opinion that the Speed Limit law is doing its job. I think if I said it was summer in August some of them would not give up until I agreed with them that it was winter. I've always been the type that refused to be told how to think, which does not fit well with those who refuse to let others think for themselves.
Let's get back to talking about sailing so I can get my mind off that nonsense. Maybe I can find a less hostile crowd here.
Any word on the winds this weekend yet?
Please no replies unless its about sailing.

If you had simply had a thread about sailing there would no negative feedback from forum members.Most people you want to classify as performance boaters who have the majority of the posting activity love sailing.You chose to start your thread with a definate purpose of showing your side of the SL debate.Why would you be so surprized that members on the other side would take the bait?

[nvtngtxpyr]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

If you had simply had a thread about sailing there would no negative feedback from forum members.Most people you want to classify as performance boaters who have the majority of the posting activity love sailing.You chose to start your thread with a definate purpose of showing your side of the SL debate.Why would you be so surprized that members on the other side would take the bait?

There was nothing inflamatory at all in elchase's first post. You and HazelNut and VitaBene need to take a chill pill and move on.

[VitaBene]

Ummm OK Non Voting Taxpayer.......... 3 posts in 6 months and this is what you offer.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by nvtngtxpyr

There was nothing inflamatory at all in elchase's first post. You and HazelNut and VitaBene need to take a chill pill and move on.

Originally Posted by elchase

I'm amazed at the lack of dialogue on this forum about sailing. We always knew there were hundreds of would-be sailors around would take to the water as soon as it became safe to do so again, and this summer has proven that out. I counted over thirty sails in one view across the Broads one recent Sunday afternoon. Reading this forum, one would get the false impression that Winnipesaukee is of no use unless one has a performance boat and is allowed to boat as fast as he can, but this summer has surely proven otherwise. When I was a boy in my sailfish, this lake and Champlain were considered the premiere fresh water yachting destinations in the Northeast, and numerous major yachting events were held in the Broads. Hoping the sailing associations will see that Winnipesaukee is open for business again and start scheduling events here again.

Ya,nothing here was inflammatory to those on the opposers side.Pretty obvious to most that elchase was trying to make a point about it being safer because of the SL.

[ApS]

After reading of one member's disappointing experience of sailing in the "light and variable winds" of Lake Winnipesaukee, a few words of encouragement are in order:

1) First of all, "a light and variable wind" happens to be the most prominent trademark of Lake Winnipesaukee's boating conditions—just as it is for all "inland waters".

Ocean's winds are characteristically steady, with light and variable winds being the trademark of only a few places on this Earth's vast oceans.

So, on Lake Winnipesaukee, we're stuck with what we have—which isn't necessarily a bad thing!

2) Second, "light and variable winds" doesn't mean you can't go sailing. Consider wind direction:

The oldest trick to determine wind direction involves having a tobacco smoker on board. The trail of smoke will accurately determine the direction of the wind.

3) The "light-wind problem" comes with having a large sailboat on the lake, IMHO: The trail of smoke can be different at one end of the boat compared to the other!

IMHO, "light and variable winds" favor a small sailboat. Too often, when I'm sailing out on The Broads, I've seen big and expensive sailboats solely under power.

Keeping the naturally light winds of "Inland Waters" in mind, I've sold two of my medium-sized (20-foot) sailboats and kept one large one (with power) and acquired two different small ones (without power—which isn't ALL of my sailboats!)

Sold here, were two catamarans which I found were very frustrating in light winds. With two hulls, both were too readily halted—even reversed—by wakes. Too often, while scarcely moving forward at all!

(Both "cats" were owned concurrently, so one can't be blamed over the other).

Strong winds for catamarans will keep you entertained and busy, all right, but there's the risk of capsizing—with the usual difficulties in self-righting a catamaran—or worse—"turtling" one's catamaran. "Turtling" often requires skilled powerboat help to prevent damage and is even more work to get it right-side up!

A large monohull sailboat can tackle anything the lake throws at it, but I've come to prefer small monohulls for the ease and rapidity of rigging them for the day and "getting out there" regardless of lack of wind. Instead of tobacco smoke, you can rig a "telltale" to determine wind direction, however faint it may be.

On my single-sail monohull, I use a mylar strip about 10" long. Among available "telltales", it is extremely sensitive—and it is also free! (Just pull a strand from an old plastic tarp). It shows wind-direction when your other "telltales" aren't moving at all. This week, I added a small breast feather to the end of the mylar strip.(It's a discard from a local Loon—used for appropriate-ticity).

Most mornings, our local winds will gradually increase in velocity; however, one should be aware that around Noon, the wind can drop to nothing. Sitting motionless in the hot sun—as lunch time passes by—can be very stressful!

So, start out early and bring water and a sammich. (Or an apple, which has the staying power of a much bigger snack. If you don't have auxiliary power, consider bringing sun-block too).

All is working out very well for these past five days during these too-rare, consecutive and, especially outstanding, weather-days for sailing.

3) Lastly, it doesn't take a lot of money to aquire a small sailboat: A Scorpion, Snark, Laser, Optimist, Puffer, Phantom, Zuma, Holder or Porpoise can be bought for less than $1000: Some, for MUCH less!

Any of those can be cartopped or even "cradled" within a trailered powerboat or sailboat.

Heck, throw a bunkbed mattress inside first—get out there sailing—even when the wind "isn't right"!!!

[no-engine]

I've been sailing more than half century, starting while I was being carried - born in October. From small prams, as a kid, to 110, 210 class boats, to 65 footers, all with no hired captains.

Season on Lake is only set by oneself. Long ago, I once sailed my Sunfish before ice-out declared! There was a bunch of open water in Center Harbor Bay on a warm sunny day, with a light breeze. Other times I owned a 22' sloop and often sailed it on frosty mornings to the marina for winter storage, trip of several hours. It was a very stable keel sailboat, and I've sailed in strong winds that prohibited other boats from going out, with a reefed main and smaller jib. It's all how one makes it. I do not own a sail or power boat now; I own a kayak and a canoe now.

Several times a year, I am invited with friends to sail on the Lake, with others on the Cape, and others in Chesapeake Bay.

[ApS]

Partly sunny, so I got out in a mild wind at 9AM, and saw 17 sailboats! (Not as many powerboats).

Went out again at Noon, and counted 34 sailboats! The sailing was great, but a heavy, "long-fetch" nature of the waves gradually appeared, so I headed for home.

Shortly afterwards, the wind freshened a whole lot more, with some very strong and shifty gusts: That had me wondering if I should wait out the weather at a lee shore until things improved.

Taking advantage of a lull, and noticing that the clouds were taking on an even more threatening look, I took a chance and zoomed the last ½-mile to the dock. (My BIL was there to slow my docking speed—fortunately).

But surely, of those 34 boats—including my sailboat—someone can advise of what sailing events were going on Sunday.

ETA: Link.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Partly sunny, so I got out in a mild wind at 9AM, and saw 17 sailboats! (Not as many powerboats).

Went out again at Noon, and counted 34 sailboats! The sailing was great, but a heavy, "long-fetch" nature of the waves gradually appeared, so I headed for home.

Shortly afterwards, the wind freshened a whole lot more, with some very strong and shifty gusts: That had me wondering if I should wait out the weather at a lee shore until things improved.

Taking advantage of a lull, and noticing that the clouds were taking on an even more threatening look, I took a chance and zoomed the last ½-mile to the dock. (My BIL was there to slow my docking speed—fortunately).

But surely, of those 34 boats—including my sailboat—someone can advise of what sailing events were going on Sunday.

APS, I participated in the NH Police Fund ride yesterday out of Laconia HD around the lake. As we came out of Alton the sailboats looked fantastic (it looked like more than 34). Glad you had a good day out there (weather not withstanding).