Immediate Help Needed

[ishoot308]

All;

In an attempt to help someone else out who was almost through the ice on their ATV at a pressure ridge, I left my camp on Welch island and rushed to his aid. Unfortunately while helping him I lost my Polaris Ranger to the bottom of the lake less than an hour ago. Everyone got out safely and no one was hurt.

I'm am staying out at my Camp on Welch island and I need to now contact a reputable vehicle recovery company first thing tomorrow morning to get it out and hopefully recover what I can.

The police and fire department have been notified and showed up to help, but I need to get the Ranger out ASAP.

I would appreciate any quick info on a recovery company. A phone number or address would be great!

Thanks!!

Dan

[Lakesrider]

Here is at least one for you.

http://www.divewinnipesaukee.com/

4 North Main Street
Wolfeboro, NH 03894
(603) 569-8080

[riverat]

http://www.mooringman.com/

[ishoot308]

Thank you Lakesrider!!

Your quick response is appreciated. They were the company I was thinking of but could not remember their name!

Again Thanks!

Dan

[ishoot308]

Thank You Riiverat!

Dan

[WeirsBeachBoater]

Gulbickis Towing, has raised more vehicles out of the lake then anyone else I know. They have diver on their contacts etc... 366-5402

[ishoot308]

Thank you W.B.B.!! The Gilford Fire Department just recommended them as well!

Hopefully one of the above recovery companies can help me out quickly.

Thank you all!!

Dan

[VitaBene]

Dan,

That is terrible. I hope all else is well, PM if I can help in any way. Was the engine off?

Thanks for being a good samaritan- it is nice to see in today's world.

Be safe,

John

[jmen24]

Dan,
When you get it out of the water, send me a PM. My ATV went through the ice two winters ago and swallowed a big gulp of water, it took awhile to get it back to top shape (no new parts required, just lots of fluid changes and patience), but I have been using it every since without any side affects. Good luck with the recovery, I know what you are going through, at least you were not hurt.

First thing, I assume you are not at a location to read this, but pull the spark plugs when it comes out of the water, before you leave the ice and get it into a heated garage, allow it to warm up to the point that it can be touched and not feel really cold.

Jeremy

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jmen24

Dan,
When you get it out of the water, send me a PM. My ATV went through the ice two winters ago and swallowed a big gulp of water, it took awhile to get it back to top shape (no new parts required, just lots of fluid changes and patience), but I have been using it every since without any side affects. Good luck with the recovery, I know what you are going through, at least you were not hurt.

First thing, I assume you are not at a location to read this, but pull the spark plugs when it comes out of the water, before you leave the ice and get it into a heated garage, allow it to warm up to the point that it can be touched and not feel really cold.

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy;

Thanks for the info! Got your P.M. and will reply later on tonight. Unfortunately this Ranger had lots of electrical components and switches as it had a hardside fully enclosed and heated cab and tracks. I will try to pull the plugs and do as you said unfortunately the recovery people hang on to the Ranger until insurance pays them. They seem to be really good so maybe they will do this for me... From what I have heard once a vehicle is submerged it is considered a total loss by the insurance company... I guess I won't know until I contact them.

Off line for a while, lot's of work to do now...

Dan

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Dan,

That is terrible. I hope all else is well, PM if I can help in any way. Was the engine off?

Thanks for being a good samaritan- it is nice to see in today's world.

Be safe,

John

Thanks John;

Yes the engine was running and lights stayed on under water for quite some time. Very strange looking at your vehicle lights under the water and ice when it's dark!! An experience I rather not repeat!! At least no one was hurt and I can replace the Ranger.

Dan

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

Gulbickis Towing, has raised more vehicles out of the lake then anyone else I know. They have diver on their contacts etc... 366-5402

They called me back at 7:00 A.M. this morning and were out here looking at it within 30 minutes. They are taking care of the entire job. It should be out of the water today if all goes well!! It's only in about 15' of water.

Thanks again!

Dan

[SAMIAM]

Years ago my boat went down at the dock with a 200HP Evinrude.....After I floated it, pulled the plugs, changed fluids and blew all the water out. Put the plugs back in, started it up and ran it hard for about an hour. Never had another problem with it.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Years ago my boat went down at the dock with a 200HP Evinrude.....After I floated it, pulled the plugs, changed fluids and blew all the water out. Put the plugs back in, started it up and ran it hard for about an hour. Never had another problem with it.

SAMIAM, that is exactly how I handled the atv. Took 8 oil changes, running about five minutes between the first few then longer as the oil stayed cleaner.

Mine was the same as Dan's, lights on, middle of the night, from the campsite it was about a 1/4 mile away, the lights were still going, they stayed on until we got it out of the water 1 1/2 hrs or so and shut them off. You are in better shape that you did not have to pull your friend from the water as he was the rider. Tossed him in the Rhino that I was driving and got him to the camp fire and changed into dry cloths, left him with the girls and went back to go fishing. The edge of the hole was over 4" thick. Temp was hovering at about 0, the atv was literally a solid block of ice by the time we got it to a garage for the rest of the night.

Dan, good luck with everything, if you have the opportunity and need to find a home for the tracks, drop a pm.

[ishoot308]

Thanks all;

Guilbicki's got it out yesterday with the help of two divers who used float bags. Minimal damage occurred while raising it and getting it out. According to Guilbicki's it is considered a total loss by the insurance company.

BTW...This occurred directly between Locke's and Rock island in 15' of water.

Thanks for all your help, recommendations and private emails of concern.

Dan

Here's a couple of pics...

[DBA]

We have to convey how sorry we are that this happened to you, especially when you were helping someone else. So sorry.
DBA

[fatlazyless]

YaNeverKnow...maybe that HK Motorsports-Laconia, a Polaris Ranger dealer, can bring this puppy back to life: A heated garage, a couple-three $13 gallons of bright red Mystery Oil hand-cranked through the cylinder spark plug holes to displace the leftover water.....and budda-bing-bang-boom....it could be good to go, again. If anyone can do it.........it's ......... HK!

Just watch them bring a $15,000 machine back from insurance salvage junk (comprehensive coverage?) with some heat, some Mystery Oil and a couple electric jolts.....seems like it should be doable.....after all, it's designed for rugged outdoor use....and it's made by www.polarisindustries.com, somewhere in Minnesota...

[eillac@dow]

I also wish to convey how sorry I am. Thankfully, no one was hurt. Hopefully, you will have some luck with getting it back running.

eillac

[hockeypuck]

Good to see the Ranger above ice, even better that no one was injured on your mission of mercy. Here's a few questions I have that some of the posters may have the answers to. Who pays for the extraction, tow and storage? How much did Gulbicki charge for this type of service? If it has been totaled by the Ins. Co. I assume once you accept the check it belongs to the Ins. Co. Can it be sold or must it be crushed? Can a totaled vehicle that has been recovered and restored be legally registered? Does the Ranger have to be registered for on road use? I'm not a mechanic, but from what has been posted i think I would dry it out and give it a try.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by hockeypuck

Good to see the Ranger above ice, even better that no one was injured on your mission of mercy. Here's a few questions I have that some of the posters may have the answers to. Who pays for the extraction, tow and storage? How much did Gulbicki charge for this type of service? If it has been totaled by the Ins. Co. I assume once you accept the check it belongs to the Ins. Co. Can it be sold or must it be crushed? Can a totaled vehicle that has been recovered and restored be legally registered? Does the Ranger have to be registered for on road use? I'm not a mechanic, but from what has been posted i think I would dry it out and give it a try.

Hi H.P.;

The extraction should be covered and paid for by my insurance company. I have not received the final bill yet but was told it will be around $5000.00. Once it is totaled by my insurance company, they give me a check and take ownership of the vehicle. From what I was told by the recovery people they put these vehicles up for auction. Since the Ranger can only be registered for off road use (OHRV) there is no title just a certificate of origin so I am pretty sure they can be resold.

I do not feel it would be worth the time to try and fix this myself. If I attempt to, I am pretty sure I would lose all claims to my insurance and who knows what would happen a couple months down the road once it's running. I feel it would be best to take the insurance check and simply buy another. This is what I have insurance for...

Dan

[secondcurve]

Ishoot:

Have the ice conditions substantially deteriorated on most of the lake or were you just unfortunate to hit an unusually thin spot? Did you jump out of the vehicle as it was falling through the ice or was the vehicle stationary and unoccupied? Also, how much did the recovery cost? I'm glad you are okay and hopefully the person you were helping out was appreciative. Good luck!!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Ishoot:

Have the ice conditions substantially deteriorated on most of the lake or were you just unfortunate to hit an unusually thin spot? Did you jump out of the vehicle as it was falling through the ice or was the vehicle stationary and unoccupied? Also, how much did the recovery cost? I'm glad you are okay and hopefully the person you were helping out was appreciative. Good luck!!

Hi S.C.;

No the ice conditions have not deteriorated and are just fine. There was 16" of ice around where I went through. What happened is we went to help a friend of a friend who called us at my camp on Welch island. He had attempted to cross a pressure ridge and the front end of his ATV went in the water and he could not get it out. This pressure ridge runs from Locke's island all the way to Belknap Point. We found a safe place to cross it just an hour or so before when we were heading out to my camp.

Anyway, when we got to the ATV in trouble I had to get to the other side of the ridge to try and pull him out. I decided to go where I safely crossed just an hour prior. When I got to that spot and attempted to cross I went through. The ice had apparently shifted some in that hours time and caused cracks and weakened the area I had crossed safely just before. I was able to get the door of the ranger opened slightly enough to get my body out and I literally propelled myself out on to the ice. Don't ask me how as I am not a small man whatsoever! My passenger and friend was not as lucky as the ice made it impossible for him to open his door. I had to get on my hands and knees and literally grab him by the arm and pull him out my door as the vehicle was sinking. It's amazing the strength you have in a situation like this! All of this took place in about 5-7 seconds before the ranger was on the bottom. My passenger got wet from the waist down and I was dry as bone.

I have asked myself if there was anything I would of done differently in this same situation and the answer keeps coming up no except maybe keeping the doors open on the Ranger. I consider myself to be an extremely safe and level headed person. I don't take unnecessary chances. This is just one of those things that can occur when your out on the ice. I will be back out next weekend and hopefully this trip won't be as eventful!

Oh yeah...The ATV was pulled out without an issue!

Dan

[fatlazyless]

Hey guy....you probably know that insurance usually does not pay new replacement cost but pays out actual cash value (depreciation) minus the deductible for comprehensive coverage like hitting a moose, or breaking through the ice...or having a tree fall on machine....

At $5000., that seems like some fast easy money for Gulbicki....and probably insurance pays for all the $5000 as a cost of recovery which has no deductible for the policy holder...

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hey guy....you probably know that insurance usually does not pay new replacement cost but pays out actual cash value (depreciation) minus the deductible for comprehensive coverage like hitting a moose, or breaking through the ice...or having a tree fall on machine....

At $5000., that seems like some fast easy money for Gulbicki....and probably insurance pays for all the $5000 as a cost of recovery which has no deductible for the policy holder...

I can tell you FLL that it was not fast and it was not easy to pull that thing up. They had the right equipment and people to do the job right, and they were right there immediately when I needed them. Two divers in the freezing water for a couple hours with all their gear and equipment not to mention the fact this was a weekend day so premium time expenses are incurred and expected. The $5000.00 was worth every penny considering the fines that the D.E.S. imposes if it's in the water more than 72 hours!!

I do not expect replacement value as the Ranger was not new. My insurance company knows what I paid for it and what extras were added and at what cost. All I expect is what I paid for it + extras, minus any depreciation and the deductibles. Not looking to gain anything, that's just not my way...

Dan

[livefreeordie]

Should have called dive winni 5k is way way overpriced to take out a over sized 4 wheeler.... He got our sled out of the channel for 500 a few years back. all the tow companys around here are a rip off. The guy who went threw in Alton bay was getting charged 500 and hour for two days.... If his first call way to dive winni his truck would have been out of the ice only getting the wheels wet....

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by livefreeordie

Should have called dive winni 5k is way way overpriced to take out a over sized 4 wheeler.... He got our sled out of the channel for 500 a few years back. all the tow companys around here are a rip off. The guy who went threw in Alton bay was getting charged 500 and hour for two days.... If his first call way to dive winni his truck would have been out of the ice only getting the wheels wet....

Well unfortunately when something like this happens you don't have the opportunity to put it out for bid. You make your first call to whoever came recommended the most and this instance it was Gulbicki's.

They worked a total of four hours with three divers from Fathom Diving (two in water one on the ice controlling equipment, filling air bags, etc, etc.) 5 or 6 people from Gulbicki's cutting out the ice, working the come alongs and placing and working boards under the vehicle. As well as having two towing snowmobiles, a flatbed wrecker and having the Ranger towed to Manchester I don't feel I was ripped off. I don't think $500.00 would have covered the equipment rental cost if I tried to do it myself. Was it expensive...Yup. Was it worth it...You bet!

Dan

[fatlazyless]

Well....it's no doubt pretty much a mute point on how much Gulbicki charges considering they did a very good and very fast job and the insurance policy just costs one hundred dollars/year. Having an Allstate-Progressive-State Farm-Geico etc puts your accident repair-retrieval into a whole different league than when someone is self-insured.

No doubt, a lower price can be found when not having insurance makes it a prerequisit to get it done for less. If insurance is paying, then the price is the ins co's problem.

One hundred dollars sounds kinda low......buy I have no clue on insuring atv-ranger vehicles and know that insuring a boat costs more tha one hundred.

Insurance seems to have all different prices. I know I used to pay over $4000/year for a commercial motor vehicle policy on a 1994 Geo Tracker in Boston that had only $50,000 liability with no collision and no comprehensive from Zurich Ins. It was all I could get and $50,000 liability is definately not enough. There's folks in Boston who purposely stage real fake-accidents, and they go looking for commercial vehicles so's they can get rear-ended and then go to the emergency room for a sore neck-chiropractic-attorney care.....

. Here in NH I pay $550 to Progressive for $500,000 liabilty-collision-comprehensive on a residential type car policy which is very different than the Boston commercial rates.


Glad to hear no one was injured....

[Seeker]

What were you delivering - pizzas? I didn't think a Tracker was worth $4000.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Well....it's no doubt pretty much a mute point

If it's a mute point, does that mean when you talk about it no one hears you?

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

If it's a mute point, does that mean when you talk about it no one hears you?

What?I thought I heard something.

[fatlazyless]

On Beacon Hill.........it's no big surprise that the insurance cost much much more than the old Geo Tracker.....so I switched to a bicycle.......no parkng tickets, no parking problems, no insurance, no bogus insurance scams, no gasoline, better tips, & better exercise!


You know with studded knobby tires, a bicycle could probably be used to get out to a Winnipesaukee island. That would be a first. Let's compare....a $15,000 Polaris Ranger vs a $150 second hand, mountain bike with special studded tires. The islands are usually no further than one or two miles from the shoreline take-off spot.....so a bicycle could be pretty practical for peddling across the frozen lake. Never a problem getting it started, and no trailer needed, just a bike rack. Plus, it's slow speed probably makes it safer than hitting an unseen pressure ridge at 45-mph.

A bicycle.....must be a bicycle shop somewhere in the lakes region that can install ice studs into knoby tires.....any suggestions?

[jmen24]

That would be one large backpack to carry all the equipment and tools Dan had in the bed of that Ranger, while riding a bike across the ice.

Dan, I do not think that you got ripped off, when you think about what is involved. This rig does weigh about three times the average snowmobile or atv, I know those track kits weigh a wee bit more than the 26" 589's on my Foreman.

I would also think that the insurance company would prefer it to be in good visual condition, so they can get as much as possible at auction, based on the pictures, someone is going to get roped into buying a beautiful basket case, for more than they probably should.

The job that was done on that truck in Alton was awful, I would think that $500 an hour would be way to high for what they did to that vehicle, heck I would have charged half that and just dragged it under the ice with a winch line and up the shore and it still would have been in better shape. (not really, but you know what I am saying)

Less, as far as insurance goes, I had a 1990 Jeep XJ lifted for offroad use only (it was street legal, but not a daily driver) insurance for that vehicle a year was $156.00 a year, liability only, as I would not have rebuilt it if it was totaled, just strip the parts and move on. That's a road legal and driveable vehicle Less, I think you need to have better conversations with your insurance rep.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by jmen24

That would be one large backpack to carry all the equipment and tools Dan had in the bed of that Ranger, while riding a bike across the ice.

Dan, I do not think that you got ripped off, when you think about what is involved. This rig does weigh about three times the average snowmobile or atv, I know those track kits weigh a wee bit more than the 26" 589's on my Foreman.

I would also think that the insurance company would prefer it to be in good visual condition, so they can get as much as possible at auction, based on the pictures, someone is going to get roped into buying a beautiful basket case, for more than they probably should.

The job that was done on that truck in Alton was awful, I would think that $500 an hour would be way to high for what they did to that vehicle, heck I would have charged half that and just dragged it under the ice with a winch line and up the shore and it still would have been in better shape. (not really, but you know what I am saying)

Less, as far as insurance goes, I had a 1990 Jeep XJ lifted for offroad use only (it was street legal, but not a daily driver) insurance for that vehicle a year was $156.00 a year, liability only, as I would not have rebuilt it if it was totaled, just strip the parts and move on. That's a road legal and driveable vehicle Less, I think you need to have better conversations with your insurance rep.

Jmen;

Thanks!

Gulbicki charged me $50.00 per man hour for his men which in my opinion is a bargain for a weekend day. Heck, I have to charge more than that for the laborers at my company during normal working hours to break even! The divers charged a flat rate of $2500.00 There was also equipment, towing and storage fees. All legit charges in my opinion.

FLL's "bargain basement" thinking does not work out in a situation like this as you simply do not have time or luxury to "shop it out". D.E.S fines start kicking in 48 hours after the accident so time is of the essence in getting the vehicle removed from the water. And yes, D.E.S. does get informed by the police, fire department or Fish & Game of all submerged vehicles so the clock is ticking.

You are 100% correct in your assessment of taking care during vehicle recovery so the insurance company at least has a vehicle to part out. The adjuster came to look at it today and was happy and surprised to see it in great condition (other than the water logged engine! ). I was informed that it goes to a salvage auction and there is literally thousands of dollars of parts that can be salvaged. Hopefully the insurance company will recoup as much cost as possible through the salvage auction.

P.M. sent...

Thanks!

Dan

[eillac@dow]

I guess one would have to be in your shoes to say whether or not they made the right decision. I personally think you did. It went in....so let's get it out and get it out now.

Like you say, D.E.S. will be notified and there is no way of getting around it. Do you or anyone know what kind of fines are imposed by D.E.S.? Just curious.

BTW, thanks for the thread on Pressure Ridges. Never knew what they were until now! Thanks for the education!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by eillac@dow

I guess one would have to be in your shoes to say whether or not they made the right decision. I personally think you did. It went in....so let's get it out and get it out now.

Like you say, D.E.S. will be notified and there is no way of getting around it. Do you or anyone know what kind of fines are imposed by D.E.S.? Just curious.

BTW, thanks for the thread on Pressure Ridges. Never knew what they were until now! Thanks for the education!

Your welcome!

D.E.S. fines are $1000.00 per day. Not sure if they are negotiable like OSHA fines and don't wish to find out!!

Dan

[fatlazyless]

"The atv, with its big tires did not sink and was still floating on the surface of the pond."

That's about what it says in today's Feb 22 Union Leader's detailed report on a 53-year old man who drowned last night in Derry, NH, in 6-8 feet of water when he drove from the partially ice covered pond out onto open water at about 11-pm.

I had previously been told that the tire's flotation was not enough to keep an atv afloat, so this here says they do. Yes or no, do they or don't they....maybe there's only one way to tell for any one machine...... by dunk-testing?

If yes, it sure makes an atv easier to retrieve than a snowmo-ranger-pickup truck, plus the driver can easily wear a pfd under a windbreaker. Wearing a pfd would probably change the whole personality of doing a self-rescue as you try to claw yourself up & out. It would be less stressfull, and less panicked, and more engaged & directed energy.

[jmen24]

It really depends on the atv and the tires. For example, my atv is a Honda Foreman 500, with 26" 589's http://www.amazon.com/ITP-Utility-Sn.../dp/B001CD8MLI on Aluminum rims, rig weighs about 650lbs with the tires, only the rear rack on my rig was at the surface, it had a nose angled down attitude while floating. With stock tires it would have sunk like a stone, even at the 200lb lighter weight. I would have taken a picture of it, but my cell and wallet were in the fender box of the atv (came out dry as a bone, rear box was completely full of water).

The old three wheelers with the 25 inch tires would routinely float, straight up and down.

I guess it depends on what you are looking for as far as floating, riding safely accross the top of the water like one of those three wheeled beach bikes, NO. Staying somewhat near the surface, possible, but there really is only one way to find out, put your trunks on.

[ishoot308]

The one I was going to help would supposedly float also, BUT, with the amount of fishing and overnight gear strapped down to it it would of sank for sure.

BTW...Rangers definitely sink...Quickly!!

Dan