Non Resident Taxpayers voting in TOWN elections

Ms Merge · 03-12-2010, 05:26 PM

Folks, I have always thought that our large number of non resident taxpayers are really getting a raw deal. This is taxation without representation. Do you think it would be wise to let non resident taxpayers vote in our March Town elections? This way they could vote on zoning and tax issues.

Comments?

Ms Merge

MaryS · 03-12-2010, 05:38 PM

In Moultonboro, there are so many taxpayors who are not primary residents who fund all the many town budget items...We should have a vote in how the money is spent...I know of some households where one adult has changed their "primary" address to NH while the other remains in their state...just to have a vote.... In CT if you own property you can vote on the town budget, referendum etc no matter where your primary residence is....
Enough folks need to take a stand on this....

MAXUM · 03-12-2010, 05:51 PM

Well if you think about it, the way taxes are levied everywhere it could be argued that there is taxation w/o representation everywhere. Case in point NH residents that work in MA and have to pay income tax to MA, yet cannot vote there. I unfortunately fall into that category.

To your point - if a town has a disproportionate number of out of state part time "residents" they in theory could override and prevent funding from being granted for things that they have no interest in or use for since their only interest would be in things that directly effect them, but may not necessarily be in the best interest of the respective town.

It's a hard situation to address that's for sure, but no matter the case any tax payer should at least be given the opportunity to attend any town meeting, stand up and have their voices heard.

Slickcraft · 03-12-2010, 05:55 PM

We pay more tax $$ to Gilford as “summer residents” than we do in Alton where we get to vote. As Gilford spends money like water I often wish that we could have a say in the voting. So I sympathize with your point of view.

As a former town official I also see the other side of this. Citizens traditionally get to vote only once in one place. If you own land in many towns and could vote in each one then having money could add up to lots of votes. Then would the part time resident get to vote on the complete ballot of just a subset? How would this be determined?

People who own land but are not full time residents would also tend to vote against anything not of benefit to them such as local schools.

We belong to the Gilford Island Association which, while having some Gilford voters as members, is mostly comprised of land owners not eligible to vote in Gilford. The association does serve as a useful voice to the Board of Selectmen.

Pineedles · 03-12-2010, 09:26 PM

They don't care. They write the rules and we pay. It wouldn't matter if we paid 99.9 percent of the taxes in town, they still have the power to not let us vote. It's just the way it is.

Sue Doe-Nym · 03-13-2010, 12:26 AM

While it can be easily argued that people should only be allowed to vote where they maintain their primary residence, it is criminal the way some towns, especially school districts, spend too much since they know that the NRTP will be picking up the tab.

Yankee · 03-14-2010, 10:28 PM

You do not live here, you do not vote here. Period. What makes you think that you have the same rights as NH citizens? People like you from south of the border come here and are the ones raising the tax bases of all the towns here in the lakes region. You would not be in the least interested in voting if your vacation property taxes were far less than they are now.

You do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property. Yet you have the temerity to think that you deserve the same right of franchise to vote as those who call the lakes region home?

Please explain how you came to this conclusion?...

Happy Gourmand · 03-15-2010, 08:03 AM

OK then...how about those of us wo already live in NH and have a second home in the Lakes Region? We're not like "those" people from South of the Border are we?

AC2717 · 03-15-2010, 08:23 AM

I guess we all should take all our spending cash out of the area as well then, and 80% of the area will fall into a depression

Merrymeeting · 03-15-2010, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankee

You do not live here, you do not vote here. Period. What makes you think that you have the same rights as NH citizens? People like you from south of the border come here and are the ones raising the tax bases of all the towns here in the lakes region. You would not be in the least interested in voting if your vacation property taxes were far less than they are now.

You do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property. Yet you have the temerity to think that you deserve the same right of franchise to vote as those who call the lakes region home?

Please explain how you came to this conclusion?...

Yankee, please explain to us how people who cannot vote and have no say at Town Meeting can be responsible for raising the tax bases? Last time I looked, it takes a Town Meeting vote to approve a budget or new article. Perhaps those voting are responsible?

As for the comments about many not having a stake in the community, I suggest it would help if you didn't make such broad-sweeping generalizations. Speaking only for myself, I care more deeply and passionately about NH and the Lakes Region than I do about any other town I've been voter in. I've been coming here my whole life, my parents live here and are buried here, and my stake in the community could not be higher. I'm not a unique exception.

While we might agree that the line needs to be drawn somewhere on who can vote where, the reason this topic keeps coming up is, ironically, in your note. My taxes on my home at the lake exceed those of my home where I vote. It is very frustrating to not have a say in those increasing taxes and how they are spent. Taxation without representation has been an issue before.

In anticipation of your next point, yes I do plan on moving soon so I can vote.

SAMIAM · 03-15-2010, 08:44 AM

There is an argument to be made that summer residents contribute far more $$ to the system than local taxpayers. They do not use the schools and have very low use of other services such as fire, police, welfare, county nurse, meals on wheels etc. Since they are on vacation, they have more disposable income and probably spend more at local business' than the average person.
Not taking sides, just throwing that out there.

LIforrelaxin · 03-15-2010, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankee

You do not live here, you do not vote here. Period. What makes you think that you have the same rights as NH citizens? People like you from south of the border come here and are the ones raising the tax bases of all the towns here in the lakes region. You would not be in the least interested in voting if your vacation property taxes were far less than they are now.

You do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property. Yet you have the temerity to think that you deserve the same right of franchise to vote as those who call the lakes region home?

Please explain how you came to this conclusion?...

Yankee, you make some broad ranging conclusions here. I am more active with paying attention to what is going in the lakes region and in the town of Moultonborough, then I am where I currently live. This is not to say that I don't know what is going on where I live, I just chose to be more informed about what is happening where I ultimately want to retire, and live.

You claim we have no stake, but let me remind you in most of the communities around the lake, if you removed the vacation homes and that tax base that the towns would not be where they are today. Moultonborough would not be able to keep expanding the way it is. Meredith wouldn't have been able to expand the fire dept building and add a new ladder truck. And note this ladder truck was not required by the vacation home owners it was required by the development of the area. In short without the tax base that the second home owners provide the lake region would not be able to support the growth that it has been able to.

Now maybe you didn't want the growth and hay neither really did I, if I could turn back the clock 15 years and not let the area develop any futher I would... but what we would find, is that even more people would be out of work, and the area would not be continuing to grow, and the new jobs that keep getting created and sustaining the area would not be there.

Don't talk to harshly about second homeowners, we are not "vacation property owners" I spend roughly 35% of my time in NH, and that continues to grow more and more each year.

Sue Doe-Nym · 03-15-2010, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankee

You do not live here, you do not vote here. Period. What makes you think that you have the same rights as NH citizens? People like you from south of the border come here and are the ones raising the tax bases of all the towns here in the lakes region. You would not be in the least interested in voting if your vacation property taxes were far less than they are now.

You do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property. Yet you have the temerity to think that you deserve the same right of franchise to vote as those who call the lakes region home?

Please explain how you came to this conclusion?...

Yankee, you're coming on entirely too strong here. I don't know which town you live in but in Moultonborough the NRTP contribute in excess of 70% of the town's revenue. Without them them we would be in bad shape without a new Library, Public Safety Building, expanded and remodeled schools. plus a relatively new Town Hall. As previously mentioned, the NRTP receive virtually nothing in return (services) except a nice town where they maintain a non-primary residence.

Now if you mean flatlanders who move or retire here and then want sidewalks, street lighting, Readiness classes that have only 6 kids per class, eight to one student teacher ratios, adding $800,000 to already expanding budgets, $8,000,000 ten thousand square foot rec centers, then that's a different story. These are the people who are driving up our taxes, not the NRTP.

LIforrelaxin · 03-15-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Yankee, you're coming on entirely too strong here. I don't know which town you live in but in Moultonborough the NRTP contribute in excess of 70% of the town's revenue. Without them them we would be in bad shape without a new Library, Public Safety Building, expanded and remodeled schools. plus a relatively new Town Hall. As previously mentioned, the NRTP receive virtually nothing in return (services) except a nice town were they maintain a non-primary residence.

Now if you mean flatlanders who move or retire here and then want sidewalks, street lighting, Readiness classes that have only 6 kids per class, eight to one student teacher ratios, adding $800,000 to already expanding budgets, $8,000,000 ten thousand square foot rec centers, then that's a different story. These are the people who are driving up our taxes, not the NRTP.

Sue Doe-Nym,

I do believe I am now speechless..... Thanks you for defining so well the fact that there are "flatlanders", or none disired NRTP, that want to make the area just like the Southern New England states..... And those of us that own property, don't want to change a dam thing.... We just want a nice peaceful place to retreat too....

Once again thanks

phoenix · 03-15-2010, 11:26 AM

I have had a second home in Moultonboro for 25 years and spend around 5 months a year there. I don't think it would be a good idea to have us vote but surely our concerns should be listened to and as Sue says we pay a majority of the taxes. So a little bit of thanks and understanding might be in order.

upthesaukee · 03-15-2010, 11:39 AM

I can only speak for Alton, but at the Town Meetings before SB2 became our way of life

, non-residents were able to speak on an issue or issues that had an effect on them. Occasionly, someone would take advantage of that, but not very often.

Because of other commitments since we have gone to deliberative sessions, I have not been to one, but I would believe that you can also speak there as well.

If memory serves me correctly, you simply needed to register at the door and state which article(s) you wished to address.

Can you vote? No. Can you address your issues? yes. Will it make a difference? Don't know until you make the effort and try.

Argie's Wife · 03-15-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

I can only speak for Alton, but at the Town Meetings before SB2 became our way of life

, non-residents were able to speak on an issue or issues that had an effect on them. Occasionly, someone would take advantage of that, but not very often.

Because of other commitments since we have gone to deliberative sessions, I have not been to one, but I would believe that you can also speak there as well.

If memory serves me correctly, you simply needed to register at the door and state which article(s) you wished to address.

Can you vote? No. Can you address your issues? yes. Will it make a difference? Don't know until you make the effort and try.

Non-residents have to get a motion to speak at a deliberative session - including just asking a simple question. It's not hard - just go up to the mic, state your name, state you're not a voter and would like permission to ask a question or make a statement. A member of the Board of Selectmen or School Board (depending on whether you're at a town deliberative session or school deliberative session), Budget Committee, or voting members in attendance will motion for you to speak. We've had this happen in the past when the press had questions about a particular warrant article.

Non-residents have a voice at zoning hearings, too, if they're an abutter that's been notified of a change to a property that their property may border, such as when they're a request for a zoning variance by the owner.

You do have to register with the Supervisors of the Checklist when you arrive at the Deliberative Session (whether it's town or school - doesn't matter).

Sue Doe-Nym · 03-15-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix

I have had a second home in Moultonboro for 25 years and spend around 5 months a year there. I don't think it would be a good idea to have us vote but surely our concerns should be listened to and as Sue says we pay a majority of the taxes. So a little bit of thanks and understanding might be in order.

Several years ago Moultonborough had Summer Town Informational Meetings just so NRTP could learn what was happening in town and have an opportunity to voice their opinions. The first one was in perhaps 2006 and held in the school auditorium and there were maybe 15 to 20 NRTPs in attendance. The town was represented by the selectmen, the Town Administrator, Chairs of both Planning and Zoning Boards, Conservation Commission Chair, Police Chief, Fire Chief, Code Enforcement Officer, Town Moderator, Tax Collector, Town Clerk, Nurse, and probably others. The school was represented by the School Superindent, the Business Manager, and both school principles. The following year the same meeting was done but fewer NRPT attended. Now the meetings are made a part of a Selectmen's meeting and held at Town Hall.

Needless to say, Moultonborough is very much aware of the contributions made by NRPT. The question is, why were the Summer Informational Meetings so poorly attended?

-held on a Saturday
- people not interested
- people feel town is doing good job

The town is very interested in the views of NRTPs who, by the way, are welcome to attend town meetings, be recognized as an NRPT and speak.

CrawfordCentury · 03-15-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankee

You do not live here, you do not vote here. Period. What makes you think that you have the same rights as NH citizens? People like you from south of the border come here and are the ones raising the tax bases of all the towns here in the lakes region. You would not be in the least interested in voting if your vacation property taxes were far less than they are now.

You do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property. Yet you have the temerity to think that you deserve the same right of franchise to vote as those who call the lakes region home?

Please explain how you came to this conclusion?...

Counter question. Let's take for example a yearround resident with no job, a kid - a regular at the welfare office/food pantry, and who is living with their folks. This person is more enfranchised than a property-owning 'tourist' who might spend as much as 200 days a year here.

Is this appropriate by your estimation?

In case you're wondering, I've lived in NH my whole life. As has my wife, whose family is 'from here' going on 400 years.

Anyhoo, in spite of the love fest you find yourself in the midst of here, it's prolly a good thing that someone chime in now and again to remind the folks from away and the transplants that us locals get grumpy time and again.

(Personally, I'm not so much grumpy - really more irascible. The summer folk just consider me to be part of the local color. Easier with irascibility than grumpiness).

Bear Islander · 03-15-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yankee

You do not live here, you do not vote here. Period. What makes you think that you have the same rights as NH citizens? People like you from south of the border come here and are the ones raising the tax bases of all the towns here in the lakes region. You would not be in the least interested in voting if your vacation property taxes were far less than they are now.

You do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property. Yet you have the temerity to think that you deserve the same right of franchise to vote as those who call the lakes region home?

Please explain how you came to this conclusion?...

Sorry, it's just not that simple. If you own what some might call a "vacation home" in a lakes area town you can simply declare it to be your primary residence and then you can vote in that town. And no matter what anybody tells you, there is no length of stay requirement nor does it matter how many nights you sleep in you "vacation" home. If you have more than one residence YOU decide which is your primary residence.

You will have to get a local drivers license. On the plus side your fishing license is cheaper.

CrawfordCentury · 03-15-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

If you own what some might call a "vacation home" in a lakes area town you can simply declare it to be your primary residence and then you can vote in that town.

Can't speak for the Yankee, but I think this post gets closer to my reckoning of the region's change in culture and the attendant impact on town budgets.

Lots of dwellings are erected by them that intend to use it as a secondary residence/vacation home. The sometime denizen of said dwelling is what's been classified here as a NRTP.

Now unless this second home was real shoddily built, it's probaly going to outlast its original p/t occupant. In many cases, the second owner may purchase the house and live here full time, and bring with them all of the need for year-round services. Even more so if they're relocating from a place where there are more services than what's found in rural towns in central NH.

Sue Doe-Nym · 03-15-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrawfordCentury

Can't speak for the Yankee, but I think this post gets closer to my reckoning of the region's change in culture and the attendant impact on town budgets.

Lots of dwellings are erected by them that intend to use it as a secondary residence/vacation home. The sometime denizen of said dwelling is what's been classified here as a NRTP.

Now unless this second home was real shoddily built, it's probaly going to outlast its original p/t occupant. In many cases, the second owner may purchase the house and live here full time, and bring with them all of the need for year-round services. Even more so if they're relocating from a place where there are more services than what's found in rural towns in central NH.

PLEASE, most of us are here bacause we don't want all those frills and services that we purposely moved away from. If you retire here and convert your summer residence that's fine, but remember why you came here in the first place. You didn't come here for all of the suburban amenities you had in suburbia so please don't screw it up for the rest of us.

Sorry to be so strong, but it's exactly the "need for year round services" that is changing the character of Lakes Region towns.

Woodsy · 03-15-2010, 03:42 PM

I think NRTP should not have a vote in the town meeting process.... HOWEVER they should be allowed to speak, question decisions etc... Its thier money too!

Here in the Lakes region the needs of residents and non-residents are drastically different. Some things like Police & Fire protection have to be based on the maximum (summer) town population while other things like the school budget have alot more variables (population, state education requirements, federal education requirements etc.)

More often than not its the full time residents who have a more vested interest in whats best for the town long term... most of the NRTP people I know complain about the taxes they pay for nothing, usually starting with schools and working thier way up the ladder.

Expensive as any given town project may seem... its usually cheaper to do now rather than later...

Woodsy

randalnh · 03-15-2010, 04:14 PM

When I moved to NH in 1992, it occured to me that everyone who is a resident of a town and at least 18 years old can vote for town-funded issues, yet the financial responsibilities and obligations pursuant to that voting is burdened only by the property owners, including the NRTPs.

I think if this system is to continue that only property owners should be able to vote, unless you want to start an income tax (OMG!) and let all of the apartment dwellers and non-property owners share in the cost of education, town services, etc. The taxation system in NH is messed-up.

phoenix · 03-15-2010, 06:26 PM

fine to say you can go and speak but the meeting is in March so most NRTP's are not around.

Heaven · 03-15-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randalnh

When I moved to NH in 1992, it occured to me that everyone who is a resident of a town and at least 18 years old can vote for town-funded issues, yet the financial responsibilities and obligations pursuant to that voting is burdened only by the property owners, including the NRTPs.

I think if this system is to continue that only property owners should be able to vote, unless you want to start an income tax (OMG!) and let all of the apartment dwellers and non-property owners share in the cost of education, town services, etc. The taxation system in NH is messed-up.

I have always figured that renters do pay property taxes through the rent they pay to the owner. The higher the taxes in a town, the higher the rent is likely to be.

randalnh · 03-15-2010, 07:53 PM

Heaven - I agree that renters may pay some fraction of the taxes in a town, but it is not even close to the amounts that single family homes pay. Also, you have lots of 18+ kids living at home, voting and not paying taxes. I still think the tax system in NH is archaic and inequitable.

Argie's Wife · 03-15-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randalnh

Heaven - I agree that renters may pay some fraction of the taxes in a town, but it is not even close to the amounts that single family homes pay. Also, you have lots of 18+ kids living at home, voting and not paying taxes. I still think the tax system in NH is archaic and inequitable.

If that 18+ year old drives a car and registers it in their town in NH, then they are paying a tax.

There's more to the way that NH raises revenue than just property tax:

Interest & Dividends Tax
Inheritance and Estate Tax
Business Profits Tax
Business Enterprise Tax
Communications Services Tax
Electricity Consumption Tax
Meals and Rentals Tax
Tobacco Tax
Real Estate Transfer Tax
Timber Tax
Gravel Tax
State Education Property Tax
Utility Property Tax
Local Property Tax
Property Tax Rates

Source: New Hampshire Department of Revenue Administration (DRA)

randalnh · 03-16-2010, 03:01 PM

Slick - although you may be correct about feudal land ownership in England way back when, your ancestors most likely left England because they could not own land.

Argie's Wife - too bad we cannot repeal the property tax and just increase a few of the others on the list, like the Timber Tax or Gravel Tax.

It is still my opinion that taxing properties as the primary income for a town/state does not share the burden equally among all of the citizens. Although some tax might be justified on property, the level at which NH towns tax their property is, in my view, excessive. Funny how my assessed property value has gone down 30% in the last 2 years, but my taxes have continued to go up.

TOAD · 03-17-2010, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randalnh

Slick - although you may be correct about feudal land ownership in England way back when, your ancestors most likely left England because they could not own land.

Argie's Wife - too bad we cannot repeal the property tax and just increase a few of the others on the list, like the Timber Tax or Gravel Tax.

It is still my opinion that taxing properties as the primary income for a town/state does not share the burden equally among all of the citizens. Although some tax might be justified on property, the level at which NH towns tax their property is, in my view, excessive. Funny how my assessed property value has gone down 30% in the last 2 years, but my taxes have continued to go up.

Come on down to Massachusetts.

Then you will have a "real" reason to complain about valuations and property tax!

We are retiring to NH because we can cut our real estate taxes in half, have twice as much land, and 2X bigger house. In comparison, you already in NH have a real bargain as far as all taxes go.

As far as really "owning" any real estate in this country is a fallacy.

Just stop paying your taxes on a property and see how long you own it. You are really only renting what you perceive to own from the government.

....and that government is becoming more greedy and intrusive with each passing day.

Argie's Wife · 03-17-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randalnh

Slick - although you may be correct about feudal land ownership in England way back when, your ancestors most likely left England because they could not own land.

Argie's Wife - too bad we cannot repeal the property tax and just increase a few of the others on the list, like the Timber Tax or Gravel Tax.

It is still my opinion that taxing properties as the primary income for a town/state does not share the burden equally among all of the citizens. Although some tax might be justified on property, the level at which NH towns tax their property is, in my view, excessive. Funny how my assessed property value has gone down 30% in the last 2 years, but my taxes have continued to go up.

That depends on where you live... that's not the norm for all towns. A timber tax or gravel tax increase would also put skids on new building or renovations... Do you really want a state income tax and/or sales tax?

Yankee · 03-23-2010, 07:57 PM

I apologize for my absence in this debate. It was not my intent to add to this thread and not be active in the discussion. Some of you have said that I have made generalizations and have come on too strong. IMO of course completely disagree with you.

The proponents of this debate are missing a vital fact: Voting is a right not a privilege. So when I say that you do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property I say so without malice. And those are not a generalizations, or coming on too strong, they are facts.

Let me inform you of the slippery slope that you are treading, by relating recent legislation that will allow me to draw a parallel to this debate. Many of proponents of HB 847 are non-residents that used their $$ and influence to get that law enacted. I ask you, now that this precedence has been set, what's next on their agenda? Where's that slippery slope I'm talking about? I'll tell you: Next your boat will be too big, it has too many engines, the speed limit is still too high, power boating will be limited to only certain times of the day and to certain places on the lake, etc...I could go on but I think that you get my point.

Back to this discussion, let's say that non-residents are allowed to vote in local elections. What positions/seats do you propose? BTW they differ from town to town. And after that, since non-residents can vote locally, why not for their state representative? And then since they can vote for their state rep, why not for the US congressional/senate and governor's seats?

I never thought that I be saying this, but I agree with Bear Islander. If it is so important to you that you must have a say in the local and state affairs here in NH, denounce your current state affiliation and move here to NH.

It's a privilege to own vacation property here in the lakes region or anywhere else, it is not anyone's right. The same goes for your franchise to vote.

Slickcraft · 03-15-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randalnh

When I moved to NH in 1992, it occured to me that everyone who is a resident of a town and at least 18 years old can vote for town-funded issues, yet the financial responsibilities and obligations pursuant to that voting is burdened only by the property owners, including the NRTPs.

I think if this system is to continue that only property owners should be able to vote, unless you want to start an income tax (OMG!) and let all of the apartment dwellers and non-property owners share in the cost of education, town services, etc. The taxation system in NH is messed-up.

The old British Feudal was built on the principal that only property owners could vote. My ancestors revolted against England to create this democracy now known as the United States, many giving their lives. I suppose that democracy is not for everyone; there are many other options around the world. I kind of like it here.

Pineedles · 03-15-2010, 08:27 PM

What an impassioned group of folks! I would love to meet you all at the next Forum Fest! Are there times that you can't attend?

swnoel · 03-27-2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

The old British Feudal was built on the principal that only property owners could vote. My ancestors revolted against England to create this democracy now known as the United States, many giving their lives. I suppose that democracy is not for everyone; there are many other options around the world. I kind of like it here.

We are a Republic NOT a Democracy... Democracies eventually fail... Democracies rule by mob NOT law!

I want to live in a Republic... the same one our Founding Fathers gave us to protect... not in your Democracy.

Sorry I'm a little blunt... but I'm getting tired of people not understanding and appreciating what they have and allowing the powers to be, to destroy our nation while clapping and cheering!

swnoel · 03-27-2010, 05:36 PM

I'm in favor of repealing all taxes , including federal income tax....you want it ,you pay for it!

We're currently being taxed out of existence and we're on the verge of revolt!

Isn't this some of the same crap that resulted in this country being shaped?

tis · 03-27-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swnoel

I'm in favor of repealing all taxes , including federal income tax....you want it ,you pay for it!

We're currently being taxed out of existence and we're on the verge of revolt!

Isn't this some of the same crap that resulted in this country being shaped?

I second that. We are in big trouble.

phoenix · 03-27-2010, 10:24 PM

so would you then have no defense budget

This'nThat · 03-28-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoenix

so would you then have no defense budget

Only if you changed the Constitution. Providing for the common Defense is the law of the land.

What isn't in the Constitution? Oh, a few things. School lunches. Uniforms for the band. Health care. Internet and telephone for everyone. Free Government home winterizing. Welfare for life. And many others.

Defense? Definitely part of our Constitution.

Argie's Wife · 03-28-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swnoel

I'm in favor of repealing all taxes , including federal income tax....you want it ,you pay for it!

We're currently being taxed out of existence and we're on the verge of revolt!

Isn't this some of the same crap that resulted in this country being shaped?

...Federal issues aside....

Let's say this idea was implemented on just the town-level... I'm playing Devil's Advocate here...

On the flip side you could say:
You can only receive the services you've paid for, so unless you've paid your Highway Tax, you can't use the roads.

If you haven't paid your Fire Department Tax, your house will be left to burn and don't call the ambulance when you need one because they won't come to get you, since you haven't paid that tax.

If you haven't paid your School Tax, your children can't get a public education.

If you haven't paid your Patriotic Tax, you can't go to the fireworks on Independence Day.

If you haven't paid your Police Department Tax, you can't get any of the protection servies offered by your local police.

If you haven't paid for your Communications Tax you can't use the internet, telephone, or cell phones.

If you haven't paid your Cemetary Tax, you don't have a plot of land in your area that's managed after you die.

...and so on...

Really, is this a good idea? Sounds rather Orwellian to me...

When you think about it, there's a lot that go to for the management and upkeep of each town's departments and infrastructures. Your taxes go to these things (and more!) and the running of them, including the policies, equipment schedules, and other things that run your town. Much more than you may be aware of... have you given much thought to the management of the street lights or the maintenance of the police cruisers or the upkeep of the fire departments' equipment or even just the Veterans' Day Parade in your town? Well, someone does.

I highly recommend people get involved with their town's budget process. If your town has a budget committee then their meetings are posted by law and are open to the public. You will get a much better idea of how things are run - and it's very educational - trust me! I think you may just come away realizing that things in your town are run much better than you're seeing just in the papers or people's letters to the editor. And if not, you do have a time during the meeting called "Public Input" that will allow you to speak to the committee and town's management.

If you don't get involved and especially if you don't vote, then you can't complain because you've allowed someone else to decide for you.

NoRegrets · 03-28-2010, 11:43 AM

I agree that we need to have an advanced society but when John Lynch wanted to cut back on state pension contributions 294 agencise were represented by lawyers to stop it! Two Hundred Ninety Four agencies! In NH, Just think about big states. The state has enjoyed great growth but when we try to cut back - Oh My God - How dare we! It is so complicated that the sum of all the parts is out of control and the people that fund this massive organization are lashing out now that they have been subjected to a few years of ression and the agencies or government big wigs do not seem to know where their source of funding comes from.

The small agencies at the bottom of the barrel are always struggling.

Sue Doe-Nym · 03-28-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoRegrets

I agree that we need to have an advanced society but when John Lynch wanted to cut back on state pension contributions 294 agencise were represented by lawyers to stop it! Two Hundred Ninety Four agencies! In NH, Just think about big states. The state has enjoyed great growth but when we try to cut back - Oh My God - How dare we! It is so complicated that the sum of all the parts is out of control and the people that fund this massive organization are lashing out now that they have been subjected to a few years of ression and the agencies or government big wigs do not seem to know where their source of funding comes from.

The small agencies at the bottom of the barrel are always struggling.

Do you realize that Lynch did cut back on the state's contribution to the state pension fund? This was done simply by making all towns and municipalities pay 5% more. In addition, Concord made it illegal for towns to pass the increase on to any employees !! And you wonder how towns have problems controlling costs.

AC2717 · 03-29-2010, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

...Federal issues aside....

Let's say this idea was implemented on just the town-level... I'm playing Devil's Advocate here...

On the flip side you could say:
You can only receive the services you've paid for, so unless you've paid your Highway Tax, you can't use the roads.

If you haven't paid your Fire Department Tax, your house will be left to burn and don't call the ambulance when you need one because they won't come to get you, since you haven't paid that tax.

If you haven't paid your School Tax, your children can't get a public education.

If you haven't paid your Patriotic Tax, you can't go to the fireworks on Independence Day.

If you haven't paid your Police Department Tax, you can't get any of the protection servies offered by your local police.

If you haven't paid for your Communications Tax you can't use the internet, telephone, or cell phones.

If you haven't paid your Cemetary Tax, you don't have a plot of land in your area that's managed after you die.

...and so on...

Really, is this a good idea? Sounds rather Orwellian to me...

When you think about it, there's a lot that go to for the management and upkeep of each town's departments and infrastructures. Your taxes go to these things (and more!) and the running of them, including the policies, equipment schedules, and other things that run your town. Much more than you may be aware of... have you given much thought to the management of the street lights or the maintenance of the police cruisers or the upkeep of the fire departments' equipment or even just the Veterans' Day Parade in your town? Well, someone does.

I highly recommend people get involved with their town's budget process. If your town has a budget committee then their meetings are posted by law and are open to the public. You will get a much better idea of how things are run - and it's very educational - trust me! I think you may just come away realizing that things in your town are run much better than you're seeing just in the papers or people's letters to the editor. And if not, you do have a time during the meeting called "Public Input" that will allow you to speak to the committee and town's management.

If you don't get involved and especially if you don't vote, then you can't complain because you've allowed someone else to decide for you.

I am perfectly fine with paying these things for me and my family, and paying my way, where I like to draw the line is when others do not and I have to pay their way as well

tis · 03-15-2010, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

PLEASE, most of us are here bacause we don't want all those frills and services that we purposely moved away from. If you retire here and convert your summer residence that's fine, but remember why you came here in the first place. You didn't come here for all of the suburban amenities you had in suburbia so please don't screw it up for the rest of us.

Sorry to be so strong, but it's exactly the "need for year round services" that is changing the character of Lakes Region towns.

You said it perfectly Sue. It is not the "summer people" , it's the ones who move here because they love the way it is and then want all the amenities!

Seaplane Pilot · 03-15-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Sorry, it's just not that simple. If you own what some might call a "vacation home" in a lakes area town you can simply declare it to be your primary residence and then you can vote in that town. And no matter what anybody tells you, there is no length of stay requirement nor does it matter how many nights you sleep in you "vacation" home. If you have more than one residence YOU decide which is your primary residence.

You will have to get a local drivers license. On the plus side your fishing license is cheaper.

Unless you live in one of the many condos in Laconia that the Town claims can't be used for a permanent residence. I still can't believe that someone hasn't challenged this with a class-action lawsuit.

AC2717 · 03-15-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Unless you live in one of the many condos in Laconia that the Town claims can't be used for a permanent residence. I still can't believe that someone hasn't challenged this with a class-action lawsuit.

I live in one of these, I have heard it has been challenged before, but have not heard of enything comng of it or currently open. I would definatley sign up for a class action lawsuit. Only problem, I do not have to funds available to start the process before everyone would jump on with me. Anyone want to start it?

AC2717 · 03-15-2010, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Sorry, it's just not that simple. If you own what some might call a "vacation home" in a lakes area town you can simply declare it to be your primary residence and then you can vote in that town. And no matter what anybody tells you, there is no length of stay requirement nor does it matter how many nights you sleep in you "vacation" home. If you have more than one residence YOU decide which is your primary residence.

You will have to get a local drivers license. On the plus side your fishing license is cheaper.

The state of NH/Belknap County required the condo association that we own in, would never be declared a primary residence for all that own in the assoc. It is right in our by-laws. But yet again I have to pay all the real estate taxes and be subject to their laws, taxes, restrictions, etc..

tummyman · 03-15-2010, 10:25 PM

Yankee, I must take exception to your comments. I am a NRTP (for over 35 years) and have usually felt local government was fairly well run. There are a few notable exceptions, but on the whole, most local leaders get it right a high percentage of the time. However, attitudes that keep poking NRTP's in the eye may rouse some latent feelings to be included in a more formal way. Most understand non-voting relationships....but many certainly do not like it thrown in our face. How would you feel if the whole local tax structure were turned upside down and government was totally funded on a pay for service concept. You pay for schools if you use them, you pay if the police or fire come to your emergency. You pay for the portion of the road that is fixed in front of your land....and on and on. How about an admission fee for using the proposed re-use of the Lions Club? Maybe only "residents" should pay for the county nursing home expansion. Bet many "voting residents" would certainly see their out of pocket costs rise dramatically and they would not like it. Lets try to all be civil and enjoy this area for what it is....not what some seem to display against good, honest NRTP folks who's local property and use help fund local jobs, businesses, government, pensions, etc. etc. etc. BTW, members of my family did live here, did work here, did go to the schools here, are buried here, and have been here for over 65 years one way or another. Life is short.... we need to temper the rhetoric !!

Argie's Wife · 03-15-2010, 10:45 PM

On the simplest level: If taxes take a big hike, then people are likely to move or rent out their properties. New properties aren't developed and people are less likely to do renovations/additions. This will lead to a decrease in the town's assessment value - not what a town wants!

As someone who lives in a town with a lot of NRTP's, and who has closely (very closely!) watched the budget process for both the town and the schools, I can tell you that careful attention is paid to any increases. This year our elementary school brought in a level-funded budget and our town pretty much did, too. Our high school had a slight increase of 2%-3% and it took a lot (and i mean a LOT) of discussion to get the budget committee to buy-in (and not all members did!)

In short, when there's a tax increase it isn't just for the NRTP's - it's a hike across the board and effects the year-'round citizens, too. Trust me when I say that the locals are even less fond of the increases. For many of us, this is the only property (our home) that we own.

Some things in life are inevitable and taxes are one of them.

03-12-2010, 05:26 PM	#1
Ms Merge Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 25 Thanks: 18 Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts	Non Resident Taxpayers voting in TOWN elections Folks, I have always thought that our large number of non resident taxpayers are really getting a raw deal. This is taxation without representation. Do you think it would be wise to let non resident taxpayers vote in our March Town elections? This way they could vote on zoning and tax issues. Comments? Ms Merge

03-12-2010, 05:38 PM	#2
MaryS Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: CT and Moultonboro Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Yes! In Moultonboro, there are so many taxpayors who are not primary residents who fund all the many town budget items...We should have a vote in how the money is spent...I know of some households where one adult has changed their "primary" address to NH while the other remains in their state...just to have a vote.... In CT if you own property you can vote on the town budget, referendum etc no matter where your primary residence is.... Enough folks need to take a stand on this....

03-12-2010, 09:26 PM	#5
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,548 Thanks: 1,073 Thanked 669 Times in 368 Posts	NVTP in M They don't care. They write the rules and we pay. It wouldn't matter if we paid 99.9 percent of the taxes in town, they still have the power to not let us vote. It's just the way it is.

03-14-2010, 10:28 PM	#7
Yankee Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 150 Thanks: 19 Thanked 38 Times in 23 Posts	you're a tourist, plain and simple You do not live here, you do not vote here. Period. What makes you think that you have the same rights as NH citizens? People like you from south of the border come here and are the ones raising the tax bases of all the towns here in the lakes region. You would not be in the least interested in voting if your vacation property taxes were far less than they are now. You do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property. Yet you have the temerity to think that you deserve the same right of franchise to vote as those who call the lakes region home? Please explain how you came to this conclusion?...

03-15-2010, 08:03 AM	#8
Happy Gourmand Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ruskin FL Posts: 1,027 Thanks: 188 Thanked 322 Times in 179 Posts	Tell us how you really feel! OK then...how about those of us wo already live in NH and have a second home in the Lakes Region? We're not like "those" people from South of the Border are we?

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03-12-2010, 05:51 PM	#3
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	Well if you think about it, the way taxes are levied everywhere it could be argued that there is taxation w/o representation everywhere. Case in point NH residents that work in MA and have to pay income tax to MA, yet cannot vote there. I unfortunately fall into that category. To your point - if a town has a disproportionate number of out of state part time "residents" they in theory could override and prevent funding from being granted for things that they have no interest in or use for since their only interest would be in things that directly effect them, but may not necessarily be in the best interest of the respective town. It's a hard situation to address that's for sure, but no matter the case any tax payer should at least be given the opportunity to attend any town meeting, stand up and have their voices heard.

03-12-2010, 05:55 PM	#4
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and The Taylor Community Posts: 3,329 Thanks: 1,240 Thanked 2,118 Times in 968 Posts	We pay more tax $$ to Gilford as “summer residents” than we do in Alton where we get to vote. As Gilford spends money like water I often wish that we could have a say in the voting. So I sympathize with your point of view. As a former town official I also see the other side of this. Citizens traditionally get to vote only once in one place. If you own land in many towns and could vote in each one then having money could add up to lots of votes. Then would the part time resident get to vote on the complete ballot of just a subset? How would this be determined? People who own land but are not full time residents would also tend to vote against anything not of benefit to them such as local schools. We belong to the Gilford Island Association which, while having some Gilford voters as members, is mostly comprised of land owners not eligible to vote in Gilford. The association does serve as a useful voice to the Board of Selectmen.

03-13-2010, 12:26 AM	#6
Sue Doe-Nym Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,450 Thanks: 759 Thanked 794 Times in 417 Posts	While it can be easily argued that people should only be allowed to vote where they maintain their primary residence, it is criminal the way some towns, especially school districts, spend too much since they know that the NRTP will be picking up the tab.

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03-15-2010, 08:23 AM	#9
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,585 Thanks: 756 Thanked 356 Times in 268 Posts	Hey Yankee I guess we all should take all our spending cash out of the area as well then, and 80% of the area will fall into a depression __________________ Capt. of the "No Worries"

03-15-2010, 08:44 AM	#11
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,918 Thanks: 341 Thanked 1,692 Times in 594 Posts	There is an argument to be made that summer residents contribute far more $$ to the system than local taxpayers. They do not use the schools and have very low use of other services such as fire, police, welfare, county nurse, meals on wheels etc. Since they are on vacation, they have more disposable income and probably spend more at local business' than the average person. Not taking sides, just throwing that out there.

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03-15-2010, 11:26 AM	#15
phoenix Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: phoenix and moultonboro Posts: 1,561 Thanks: 63 Thanked 276 Times in 194 Posts	I have had a second home in Moultonboro for 25 years and spend around 5 months a year there. I don't think it would be a good idea to have us vote but surely our concerns should be listened to and as Sue says we pay a majority of the taxes. So a little bit of thanks and understanding might be in order. __________________ it's tough to make predictions specially about the future

03-15-2010, 11:39 AM	#16
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,606 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,476 Thanked 1,984 Times in 1,084 Posts	In Alton... I can only speak for Alton, but at the Town Meetings before SB2 became our way of life, non-residents were able to speak on an issue or issues that had an effect on them. Occasionly, someone would take advantage of that, but not very often. Because of other commitments since we have gone to deliberative sessions, I have not been to one, but I would believe that you can also speak there as well. If memory serves me correctly, you simply needed to register at the door and state which article(s) you wished to address. Can you vote? No. Can you address your issues? yes. Will it make a difference? Don't know until you make the effort and try. __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

03-15-2010, 03:42 PM	#23
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,968 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	I think NRTP should not have a vote in the town meeting process.... HOWEVER they should be allowed to speak, question decisions etc... Its thier money too! Here in the Lakes region the needs of residents and non-residents are drastically different. Some things like Police & Fire protection have to be based on the maximum (summer) town population while other things like the school budget have alot more variables (population, state education requirements, federal education requirements etc.) More often than not its the full time residents who have a more vested interest in whats best for the town long term... most of the NRTP people I know complain about the taxes they pay for nothing, usually starting with schools and working thier way up the ladder. Expensive as any given town project may seem... its usually cheaper to do now rather than later... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

03-15-2010, 04:14 PM	#24
randalnh Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 50 Thanks: 1 Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts	When I moved to NH in 1992, it occured to me that everyone who is a resident of a town and at least 18 years old can vote for town-funded issues, yet the financial responsibilities and obligations pursuant to that voting is burdened only by the property owners, including the NRTPs. I think if this system is to continue that only property owners should be able to vote, unless you want to start an income tax (OMG!) and let all of the apartment dwellers and non-property owners share in the cost of education, town services, etc. The taxation system in NH is messed-up.

03-15-2010, 06:26 PM	#25
phoenix Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: phoenix and moultonboro Posts: 1,561 Thanks: 63 Thanked 276 Times in 194 Posts	fine to say you can go and speak but the meeting is in March so most NRTP's are not around. __________________ it's tough to make predictions specially about the future

03-15-2010, 07:53 PM	#27
randalnh Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 50 Thanks: 1 Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts	Heaven - I agree that renters may pay some fraction of the taxes in a town, but it is not even close to the amounts that single family homes pay. Also, you have lots of 18+ kids living at home, voting and not paying taxes. I still think the tax system in NH is archaic and inequitable.

03-16-2010, 03:01 PM	#29
randalnh Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 50 Thanks: 1 Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts	Slick - although you may be correct about feudal land ownership in England way back when, your ancestors most likely left England because they could not own land. Argie's Wife - too bad we cannot repeal the property tax and just increase a few of the others on the list, like the Timber Tax or Gravel Tax. It is still my opinion that taxing properties as the primary income for a town/state does not share the burden equally among all of the citizens. Although some tax might be justified on property, the level at which NH towns tax their property is, in my view, excessive. Funny how my assessed property value has gone down 30% in the last 2 years, but my taxes have continued to go up.

03-23-2010, 07:57 PM	#32
Yankee Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 150 Thanks: 19 Thanked 38 Times in 23 Posts	I really did stir the pot, didn't I? I apologize for my absence in this debate. It was not my intent to add to this thread and not be active in the discussion. Some of you have said that I have made generalizations and have come on too strong. IMO of course completely disagree with you. The proponents of this debate are missing a vital fact: Voting is a right not a privilege. So when I say that you do not live here, you do not have family here, you do not raise your children here, you do not earn a living here, you have no stake in the community other than your vacation property I say so without malice. And those are not a generalizations, or coming on too strong, they are facts. Let me inform you of the slippery slope that you are treading, by relating recent legislation that will allow me to draw a parallel to this debate. Many of proponents of HB 847 are non-residents that used their $$ and influence to get that law enacted. I ask you, now that this precedence has been set, what's next on their agenda? Where's that slippery slope I'm talking about? I'll tell you: Next your boat will be too big, it has too many engines, the speed limit is still too high, power boating will be limited to only certain times of the day and to certain places on the lake, etc...I could go on but I think that you get my point. Back to this discussion, let's say that non-residents are allowed to vote in local elections. What positions/seats do you propose? BTW they differ from town to town. And after that, since non-residents can vote locally, why not for their state representative? And then since they can vote for their state rep, why not for the US congressional/senate and governor's seats? I never thought that I be saying this, but I agree with Bear Islander. If it is so important to you that you must have a say in the local and state affairs here in NH, denounce your current state affiliation and move here to NH. It's a privilege to own vacation property here in the lakes region or anywhere else, it is not anyone's right. The same goes for your franchise to vote.

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03-15-2010, 08:27 PM	#34
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,548 Thanks: 1,073 Thanked 669 Times in 368 Posts	What an impassioned group of folks! I would love to meet you all at the next Forum Fest! Are there times that you can't attend?

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03-27-2010, 05:36 PM	#36
swnoel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 529 Thanks: 83 Thanked 194 Times in 118 Posts	I'm in favor of repealing all taxes , including federal income tax....you want it ,you pay for it! We're currently being taxed out of existence and we're on the verge of revolt! Isn't this some of the same crap that resulted in this country being shaped?

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03-27-2010, 10:24 PM	#38
phoenix Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: phoenix and moultonboro Posts: 1,561 Thanks: 63 Thanked 276 Times in 194 Posts	so would you then have no defense budget __________________ it's tough to make predictions specially about the future

03-28-2010, 11:43 AM	#41
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	I agree that we need to have an advanced society but when John Lynch wanted to cut back on state pension contributions 294 agencise were represented by lawyers to stop it! Two Hundred Ninety Four agencies! In NH, Just think about big states. The state has enjoyed great growth but when we try to cut back - Oh My God - How dare we! It is so complicated that the sum of all the parts is out of control and the people that fund this massive organization are lashing out now that they have been subjected to a few years of ression and the agencies or government big wigs do not seem to know where their source of funding comes from. The small agencies at the bottom of the barrel are always struggling.

03-15-2010, 10:25 PM	#48
tummyman Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 844 Thanks: 261 Thanked 688 Times in 245 Posts	Nrtp Yankee, I must take exception to your comments. I am a NRTP (for over 35 years) and have usually felt local government was fairly well run. There are a few notable exceptions, but on the whole, most local leaders get it right a high percentage of the time. However, attitudes that keep poking NRTP's in the eye may rouse some latent feelings to be included in a more formal way. Most understand non-voting relationships....but many certainly do not like it thrown in our face. How would you feel if the whole local tax structure were turned upside down and government was totally funded on a pay for service concept. You pay for schools if you use them, you pay if the police or fire come to your emergency. You pay for the portion of the road that is fixed in front of your land....and on and on. How about an admission fee for using the proposed re-use of the Lions Club? Maybe only "residents" should pay for the county nursing home expansion. Bet many "voting residents" would certainly see their out of pocket costs rise dramatically and they would not like it. Lets try to all be civil and enjoy this area for what it is....not what some seem to display against good, honest NRTP folks who's local property and use help fund local jobs, businesses, government, pensions, etc. etc. etc. BTW, members of my family did live here, did work here, did go to the schools here, are buried here, and have been here for over 65 years one way or another. Life is short.... we need to temper the rhetoric !!

03-15-2010, 10:45 PM	#49
Argie's Wife Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Alton Posts: 1,908 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 533 Thanked 579 Times in 260 Posts	On the simplest level: If taxes take a big hike, then people are likely to move or rent out their properties. New properties aren't developed and people are less likely to do renovations/additions. This will lead to a decrease in the town's assessment value - not what a town wants! As someone who lives in a town with a lot of NRTP's, and who has closely (very closely!) watched the budget process for both the town and the schools, I can tell you that careful attention is paid to any increases. This year our elementary school brought in a level-funded budget and our town pretty much did, too. Our high school had a slight increase of 2%-3% and it took a lot (and i mean a LOT) of discussion to get the budget committee to buy-in (and not all members did!) In short, when there's a tax increase it isn't just for the NRTP's - it's a hike across the board and effects the year-'round citizens, too. Trust me when I say that the locals are even less fond of the increases. For many of us, this is the only property (our home) that we own. Some things in life are inevitable and taxes are one of them.