tough one

robjnh · 04-12-2006, 10:08 AM

We bought a peice of waterfront property last year. We bought an existing home but a lot was subdived and sold that was originally part of our parcel. With the new lot comes 50 feet of waterfront but no way to get to it which is where we come in. The developer would like us to move some fencing about 3 feet and give the potential owners a right of way to get to the water. I need to know how much I should ask and if there are appraisers out there that can help me validate a number.

Part of me wants to tell him tough luck but if we end up liking the new owners we will let them cross and get nothing for it. I should also add that this in on the Merrimack River and we have 350 ft frontage and an acre+ lot so they will not be right on top of us.

I know this group will have some thoughts. Thanks in advance for the help.

KingPrat · 04-12-2006, 10:33 AM

Any real estate agent will have the $/acre amount at any time.

If it's the developer who wants the right of way, then have him pay for a survey, but a 3 foot ROW wouldn't be too bad if your property isn't too long between the new lot and the beach. Also, a small amount of income is never a bad thing

Either that or allow them a path to the beach along the edge of the property, and lay down ground rules. Mostly people are so grateful that they will respect your property.

jrc · 04-12-2006, 10:35 AM

Consult a real estate lawyer before you do anything. You may want to consider leasing them the right of way as opposed to selling it to them. If you sell it, you will need a lawyer to prepare all the deed stuff and you are stuck with them forever, unless they want to sell it back. If you lease it you can always get out of it at the end of the lease. Even if you want to give them free access, consider a minimal lease just so you can document everything. You may love your new neighbors but they may sell to bozos five years from now.

Woodsy · 04-12-2006, 10:52 AM

Definitely consult a real estate lawyer...

Giving them water access via a ROW GREATLY increases the value of their property. Without the ROW the waterfront is useless.

I kind of like the lease idea... but you need to be careful of "adverse posession".

Woodsy

ITD · 04-12-2006, 11:46 AM

I say $150,000 plus all expenses. Your problem will come if some yahoos move in and think its ok to party and yell and scream at 2:00 am on their waterfront. Don't forget the price is what the seller is willing to sell for and the buyer is willing to pay. You have nothing to lose if you don't sell, you are taking a chance if you do sell and the contractor has a lot to lose if you don't sell. Personally I wouldn't do it.

You also want to make sure that the contractor doesn't make this "water access" for all his other properties he sells. Be careful.

xstrapolator · 04-12-2006, 12:37 PM

If it were mine, I'd tell the developer you weren't interested and then deal directly with the purchaser of the property if you are so inclined, taking all legal precautions of course.

NonVoting Taxpayer · 04-12-2006, 01:23 PM

If I am correct in order to subdivide the prioperty the developer needed 100' of waterfront for the first parcel and 50' for each parcel after that. Do you have 100'? I guess the million dollar question would be, why wasn't access provided for when the lot was divided? Sounds like the developer or prior land owners may be pulling a fast one. This may be a case where it can be done with an easement after the lots have been approved for sub-dividing, but may not have been approved as part of the original plan.
I definitely would recommend a lawyer or the easy answer would be "no". Why not try to buy the other lot with the water access but no way to get to it.

hazelnut · 04-12-2006, 02:13 PM

I'm with xstrapolator on this one. I'd want to see who moves in and then do the deal with those folks (or not). I always feel like with most developers if you give them an inch they take a mile. If you move forward cover your bases, check the fine print, ask lots of question, and get an attorney. Sounds like you hold all the cards though. They need you more than you need them.

KingPrat · 04-12-2006, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITD

I say $150,000 plus all expenses.

For what?

If you could sell <0.10 acre for that much money, we'd all be billionares.

They're not selling the waterfront, the beach rights come w/ the new property. All they're doing is discussing a right of way through the property to get to the beach.

I'd say tell the developer to bug off, it's his own problem, and deal with the new owners personally. Much easier than giving up some of your property without knowing what or who has moved in and will be using it.

ITD · 04-13-2006, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingPrat

For what?

If you could sell <0.10 acre for that much money, we'd all be billionares.

They're not selling the waterfront, the beach rights come w/ the new property. All they're doing is discussing a right of way through the property to get to the beach.

I'd say tell the developer to bug off, it's his own problem, and deal with the new owners personally. Much easier than giving up some of your property without knowing what or who has moved in and will be using it.

You missed the point. If he wanted to do it he could probably easily get that much money. The value isn't in the square footage, it's in the ability to access waterfront property. I said I personally wouldn't do it, not for the contractor or the new neighbors (neighbors change). In the end it will lower the value and resale potential of his property.

dpg · 04-13-2006, 06:48 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that the developer MIGHT have deeper pockets than the buyer.

jrc · 04-13-2006, 12:34 PM

Don't forget that this waterfront is on the Merrimack River. And judging soley by Robjnh's location it's in Nashua. As nice as some parts of the Merrimack are, river front property in Nashua doesn't command those kind of dollars. The Merrimack is dramatically cleaner than it was ten years ago, but it's still not a popular swimming destination. Some southern NH cities still have sewer overflow issues.

Airwaves · 04-13-2006, 01:30 PM

I think I come down on the side of talking with a RE lawyer FIRST, then depending on what he/she says deal with the buyer and I'd probably say lease it to them. Whatever you do you want to get it in writing so that in 20 years you're not looking at an attempt by your new neighbors to claim the property as their own.

I also boat on the Merrimack, and while the property values have increased dramatically since I first started boating on that waterway 20 years ago, they aren't even close to approaching the values at Winni so a small stipend is probably all you'll get.

On the other hand, you could look at buying their waterfront parcel!

robjnh · 04-13-2006, 03:52 PM

Great input -

I have enclosed a link that shows an arial view of the property. Area to the right of the pool is what I am talking about. Their Waterfront is where the large boat with the blue tarp is. The new home is now located near the row of White birches and trampoline.

We sold our vacation place on Winnisquam and our house in Nashua last year and moved here. You are right about the property values, you do get a lot more waterfront for the $$$. I am also big into water sports so having smooth water all the time is great. I had thought that no more sewage was dumped in NH now that Pennichuck draws drinking water from the river?

Thanks again someday when the kids are done with Baseball, soccer, gymnastics........ we will be back

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v...c%20NH%2003051

04-12-2006, 10:08 AM	#1
robjnh Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Meredith and Nashua, NH Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	tough one We bought a peice of waterfront property last year. We bought an existing home but a lot was subdived and sold that was originally part of our parcel. With the new lot comes 50 feet of waterfront but no way to get to it which is where we come in. The developer would like us to move some fencing about 3 feet and give the potential owners a right of way to get to the water. I need to know how much I should ask and if there are appraisers out there that can help me validate a number. Part of me wants to tell him tough luck but if we end up liking the new owners we will let them cross and get nothing for it. I should also add that this in on the Merrimack River and we have 350 ft frontage and an acre+ lot so they will not be right on top of us. I know this group will have some thoughts. Thanks in advance for the help.

04-12-2006, 10:52 AM	#4
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,968 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	Definitely consult a real estate lawyer... Giving them water access via a ROW GREATLY increases the value of their property. Without the ROW the waterfront is useless. I kind of like the lease idea... but you need to be careful of "adverse posession". Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

04-12-2006, 12:37 PM	#6
xstrapolator Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The Developer sure would like you too... If it were mine, I'd tell the developer you weren't interested and then deal directly with the purchaser of the property if you are so inclined, taking all legal precautions of course.

04-12-2006, 02:13 PM	#8
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	Hmmmm I'm with xstrapolator on this one. I'd want to see who moves in and then do the deal with those folks (or not). I always feel like with most developers if you give them an inch they take a mile. If you move forward cover your bases, check the fine print, ask lots of question, and get an attorney. Sounds like you hold all the cards though. They need you more than you need them.

04-13-2006, 03:52 PM	#14
robjnh Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Meredith and Nashua, NH Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks Great input - I have enclosed a link that shows an arial view of the property. Area to the right of the pool is what I am talking about. Their Waterfront is where the large boat with the blue tarp is. The new home is now located near the row of White birches and trampoline. We sold our vacation place on Winnisquam and our house in Nashua last year and moved here. You are right about the property values, you do get a lot more waterfront for the $$$. I am also big into water sports so having smooth water all the time is great. I had thought that no more sewage was dumped in NH now that Pennichuck draws drinking water from the river? Thanks again someday when the kids are done with Baseball, soccer, gymnastics........ we will be back http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v...c%20NH%2003051

04-12-2006, 10:33 AM	#2
KingPrat Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Any real estate agent will have the $/acre amount at any time. If it's the developer who wants the right of way, then have him pay for a survey, but a 3 foot ROW wouldn't be too bad if your property isn't too long between the new lot and the beach. Also, a small amount of income is never a bad thing Either that or allow them a path to the beach along the edge of the property, and lay down ground rules. Mostly people are so grateful that they will respect your property.

04-12-2006, 10:35 AM	#3
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Consult a real estate lawyer before you do anything. You may want to consider leasing them the right of way as opposed to selling it to them. If you sell it, you will need a lawyer to prepare all the deed stuff and you are stuck with them forever, unless they want to sell it back. If you lease it you can always get out of it at the end of the lease. Even if you want to give them free access, consider a minimal lease just so you can document everything. You may love your new neighbors but they may sell to bozos five years from now.

04-12-2006, 11:46 AM	#5
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,937 Thanks: 479 Thanked 695 Times in 390 Posts	I say $150,000 plus all expenses. Your problem will come if some yahoos move in and think its ok to party and yell and scream at 2:00 am on their waterfront. Don't forget the price is what the seller is willing to sell for and the buyer is willing to pay. You have nothing to lose if you don't sell, you are taking a chance if you do sell and the contractor has a lot to lose if you don't sell. Personally I wouldn't do it. You also want to make sure that the contractor doesn't make this "water access" for all his other properties he sells. Be careful.

04-12-2006, 01:23 PM	#7
NonVoting Taxpayer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 98 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 10 Posts	If I am correct in order to subdivide the prioperty the developer needed 100' of waterfront for the first parcel and 50' for each parcel after that. Do you have 100'? I guess the million dollar question would be, why wasn't access provided for when the lot was divided? Sounds like the developer or prior land owners may be pulling a fast one. This may be a case where it can be done with an easement after the lots have been approved for sub-dividing, but may not have been approved as part of the original plan. I definitely would recommend a lawyer or the easy answer would be "no". Why not try to buy the other lot with the water access but no way to get to it.

04-13-2006, 06:48 AM	#11
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,604 Thanks: 155 Thanked 231 Times in 168 Posts	One thing to keep in mind is that the developer MIGHT have deeper pockets than the buyer.

04-13-2006, 12:34 PM	#12
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Don't forget that this waterfront is on the Merrimack River. And judging soley by Robjnh's location it's in Nashua. As nice as some parts of the Merrimack are, river front property in Nashua doesn't command those kind of dollars. The Merrimack is dramatically cleaner than it was ten years ago, but it's still not a popular swimming destination. Some southern NH cities still have sewer overflow issues.

04-13-2006, 01:30 PM	#13
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	I think I come down on the side of talking with a RE lawyer FIRST, then depending on what he/she says deal with the buyer and I'd probably say lease it to them. Whatever you do you want to get it in writing so that in 20 years you're not looking at an attempt by your new neighbors to claim the property as their own. I also boat on the Merrimack, and while the property values have increased dramatically since I first started boating on that waterway 20 years ago, they aren't even close to approaching the values at Winni so a small stipend is probably all you'll get. On the other hand, you could look at buying their waterfront parcel!

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