Start Stop - Turn OFF

[TheProfessor]

Many new vehicles now come with built in start stop. Engine stops when vehicle stops - at stop signs and red lights.

ALL automotive experts on utube state to turn OFF the start stop.
A few vehicles - one can turn off start stop full time.
Most new vehicles allow driver to turn off start stop at each driving trip.

Reasons. Premature engine wear on many components of engine. Not just the starter motor. But the engine itself. As most wear on engine takes place at initial start of engine. As when engine is off - oil drains to oil pan. When starting the oil pump has to pump engine oil up to engine pistons.

[tis]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Many new vehicles now come with built in start stop. Engine stops when vehicle stops - at stop signs and red lights.

ALL automotive experts on utube state to turn OFF the start stop.
A few vehicles - one can turn off start stop full time.
Most new vehicles allow driver to turn off start stop at each driving trip.

Reasons. Premature engine wear on many components of engine. Not just the starter motor. But the engine itself. As most wear on engine takes place at initial start of engine. As when engine is off - oil drains to oil pan. When starting the oil pump has to pump engine oil up to engine pistons.

I think I heard they are going to start discontinuing that.

[thinkxingu]

It's inconvenient and unsafe.

My Bronco has it and needs to be turned off every time (pre-2024 models could be programmed to turn off permanently, but post-2024 cannot).

Given that starting a motor is less efficient than running it, I'm skeptical of the 5% or whatever claimed savings and will be jazzed if it forever goes away.

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[Slickcraft]

My wife's RAV4 has that, we have to hit the off button every time we start it. Oh, and it takes a special battery. $$$$

Alan

[TiltonBB]

Well, you could buy the plug in aftermarket device that eliminates start/stop. After that there are only two choices left. 1. Ignore it. 2. Complain about it.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Well, you could buy the plug in aftermarket device that eliminates start/stop. After that there are only two choices left. 1. Ignore it. 2. Complain about it.

3. Share frustrations to promote change.

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[FlyingScot]

Definitely a huge PIA on gas vehicles.

I currently have an EV--I believe they turn themselves off at traffic lights too. But the response is so silent and quick that it's impossible to notice

[BroadHopper]

I guess the Germans didn't pay attention to trends. My MB and Audi does not have that feature. Good riddance!

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Definitely a huge PIA on gas vehicles.

I currently have an EV--I believe they turn themselves off at traffic lights too. But the response is so silent and quick that it's impossible to notice

I wonder if an EV has the same stresses/damage possibility that an ICE engine suffers?

[Biggd]

I have a 2023 Nissan Frontier, a black zip tie stuck in the side of the button keeps it pushed in all the time, works like a charm and hardly noticeable on the black dash.
I'm not sure you can do this with all vehicles.
I was told that the starters were made HD for the extra starts, so I hope this make the starter last forever.

[Bear Guy]

Speaking as someone in the auto industry (and not a YouTube influencer), I'll point out that start/stop internal combustion engines (ICE) have been in production for over 15 years. And I can, with confidence, state that this feature is not a reliability weakness. These often engines use larger starter/generators, so it's not comparable to a standard starter motor.

I do recognize that many people don't like the feature, as evidenced by the OP posting a similar complaint on the topic from 5 years ago: https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=26649
For those that dislike the feature, the present administration may be offering economic incentives for not having the start/stop fuel-saving feature: https://www.carsdirect.com/automotiv...ech-going-away

And as the article points out, 62% of 2023 model-year vehicles claimed to have the feature. I know of no trend toward any European ICE manufacturers that are moving from the technology; the technology first took hold in Europe.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Bear Guy

Speaking as someone in the auto industry (and not a YouTube influencer), I'll point out that start/stop internal combustion engines (ICE) have been in production for over 15 years. And I can, with confidence, state that this feature is not a reliability weakness. These often engines use larger starter/generators, so it's not comparable to a standard starter motor.

I do recognize that many people don't like the feature, as evidenced by the OP posting a similar complaint on the topic from 5 years ago: https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=26649
For those that dislike the feature, the present administration may be offering economic incentives for not having the start/stop fuel-saving feature: https://www.carsdirect.com/automotiv...ech-going-away

And as the article points out, 62% of 2023 model-year vehicles claimed to have the feature. I know of no trend toward any European ICE manufacturers that are moving from the technology; the technology first took hold in Europe.

Hybrids have to have it. Prius has had it from inception.
It should be voluntary, should be able to shut it off.
I've replaced 1000's of starters but now that I'm retired, I hope mine outlasts me!

[fatlazyless]

My $5000 2014 Scion xD, 5-spd 4-cyl 170k-miles recently bought at Lakes Auto Sales & Detailing, close to Tilton Home Depot ...... runs totally fantastic without having or needing one .... is the #1 best Toyota ever!

But, it does have a traction control switch, aka a "fun switch" good for rolling it out of six inches wet slushy snow with all-season tires and front wheel drive ..... rock & roll!

What does $30 buy today ....... it totally fills up the very empty gas tank!

If only this car have those old vent wing windows, it would be the greatest car ever made of all car makers, not just Toyota!

[pondguy]

Best #1 Toyota ever is the Corolla with the 1.8 engine I bought my first one in 1971 and drive a 2022 today.

[fatlazyless]

My 2014 Scion xD has a 1.8 litre, 4-cylinder engine which barely survived the Tohoku earthquake & tsunami in 2011 but at least it ain't got NO on-off engine design like a Ford Bronco .... .

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

My 2014 Scion xD has a 1.8 litre, 4-cylinder engine which barely survived the Tohoku earthquake & tsunami in 2011 but at least it ain't got NO on-off engine design like a Ford Bronco .... .

It's an awful "feature," for sure, but the removable top and doors and ability to drive most anywhere, anytime to do most anything makes pushing the button once in a while totally worth it.

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[ishoot308]

It’s part of my startup procedure to turn it off…

Buckle up
Check mirrors
Adjust heat setting
Shut off dumb ass auto on/off

Dan

[8gv]

In the last decade when I have shopped for vehicles my list of "I don't want it!" is about equal to my "must have" list.

A feature that I avoid is self dimming mirrors.

On my wife's Subaru the self dimming has a flaw.

On the perimeter of the mirrors exists a narrow margin of non dimmed glass.

If that area was blacked out I would not complain.

That is not the case.

While being followed by vehicles with their modern one increment dimmer than the friggin' sun headlights I get flashed on and off as we go over hill and dale.

This is extra fun with the high pickup trucks with six headlights.

In my car I just flick the lever and also drop the side mirrors.

Progress... it's not for everybody.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I wonder if an EV has the same stresses/damage possibility that an ICE engine suffers?

I don't think so--no oil, no friction to mitigate--it's just spinning magnets to whatever

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

It’s part of my startup procedure to turn it off…

Buckle up
Check mirrors
Adjust heat setting
Shut off dumb ass auto on/off

Dan

What’s the difference between dumb and “dumb ass”?


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[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

What’s the difference between dumb and “dumb ass”?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Well “dumb” would refer to just the switch….”dumb ass” is is much more encompassing and includes not only the switch but the person who invented it!


Dan

[John Mercier]

The person that invented it probably had a different use for it originally.

Auto manufacturers take from other areas.

[fatlazyless]

Did a little research and none of the Dodge Durango, Chevy Tahoe, or Ford Explorer police designer vehicles come with this turn off, turn on, gasoline economy feature.

There's a You Tube video made by a car mechanic who says the turn off, turn on is bad for maintaining oil pressure, and bad for lubricating the engine. Will post it here later on.

Anyone with half a mechanical brain should instantly know that turn off, turn on is a dumb, dopey, and stupid feature that's no good for the engine and electric system ..... .

The internal combustion gasoline engine likes smooth and steady with low rpm's which is the opposite of turn off, turn on.

Replacing that big Meredith NH, route 3 & 25 intersection, the longest stop light in New Hampshire with a roundabout will do more to improve gasoline economy here in central New Hampshire than 10,000 cars with stop-start feature ..... !

[Diver1111]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/policy-a...120001573.html

[bobkatfly]

I'd add this feature to the useless fluff additions to vehicles. Active Fuel Management on many GM vehicles, especially trucks since about 2007. The system deactivates 4 of the 8 cylinders during low load driving in an effort to increase fuel efficiency. There are reports of excessive lifter wear leading to other issues involving cam shaft and engine failures. These problems may have been isolated to earlier years and exacerbated by poor maintenance and hard use but i think the jury's still out on that.
The system involves the addition of many new engine components that are controlled by the engine main control board.
I own a 2016 Silverado that I purchased in 2019. I drove it for 4 years before I installed an AFM disabler and haven't noticed an appreciable change in fuel use. I do regular maintenance and luckily haven't had any issues but still, all this for maybe a few percent fuel savings.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I guess the Germans didn't pay attention to trends. My MB and Audi does not have that feature. Good riddance!

Correct. But did the Germans pay attention to peoples desire for remote start?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by bobkatfly

I'd add this feature to the useless fluff additions to vehicles. Active Fuel Management on many GM vehicles, especially trucks since about 2007. The system deactivates 4 of the 8 cylinders during low load driving in an effort to increase fuel efficiency. There are reports of excessive lifter wear leading to other issues involving cam shaft and engine failures. These problems may have been isolated to earlier years and exacerbated by poor maintenance and hard use but i think the jury's still out on that.

The system involves the addition of many new engine components that are controlled by the engine main control board.

I own a 2016 Silverado that I purchased in 2019. I drove it for 4 years before I installed an AFM disabler and haven't noticed an appreciable change in fuel use. I do regular maintenance and luckily haven't had any issues but still, all this for maybe a few percent fuel savings.

Agreed on "fluff" additions, especially seeing as many/most reduce longevity which negates the "efficiency" in the first place.

Case in point: my '18 4Runner had the "eternal" V6 without much tech and, because it would last forever—people are getting 500k+ with ease—the overall cost of ownership is much lower than with more "technologically advanced/efficient" vehicles.

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[fatlazyless]

So, I have two old Toyota's, a 2012 Tacoma and a 2014 Scion xD, both with 4-cyl, 5-spd stick, no turbo, and I use two Rhino Ramps to do the oil changes. Am waiting right now for the weather to warm up to the 25-35 degree, bright sunshine January warm-up range.

You know the least expensive Walmart SuperTech oil and SuperTech oil filters seem to be very high quality, and the least expensive SuperTech oil filter is identical to the Fram ultra-synthetic that cost five dollars more. Take a good look at these two filters next time at Walmart to see their identical similarity.

Recent reports from Washington say the automatic transmission to be totally banned, and every car in America will have a manual transmission similar to 1946. ....... !

The three-on-the-tree is coming back ...... !

Can I do oil change wearing winter mittens ....... ?

[John Mercier]

I think it will more depend on California and Europe.

European vehicles may always have the function as part of their systems, and California has a fairly high impact on the market.

For years we would see vehicles for sale in NH that stated they met California emissions standards... I think all the new ones here now are built to those specifications.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Correct. But did the Germans pay attention to peoples desire for remote start?

German cars are known to preheat the HVAC air. My MB and Audi is already warm in the cockpit by the time I hit the end of the street. So remote start is not an issue with me.
My GF Forester with remote start at 15 minutes from start is still freezing!

I rent a number of American and Asian cars. None heat up as fast as the German cars,

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

German cars are known to preheat the HVAC air. My MB and Audi is already warm in the cockpit by the time I hit the end of the street. So remote start is not an issue with me.
My GF Forester with remote start at 15 minutes from start is still freezing!

I rent a number of American and Asian cars. None heat up as fast as the German cars,

The 5th Gen 4Runner had an electric preheat system, as well, which was as quick to warm as my A4.

My Fords have always had the most powerful climate control systems, but the overall comfort depended on the insulation. The A4's system was anemic, but it was airtight. My Mustang's and Bronco's system was/is ridiculous, but the soft tops change things a bit.

Either way, A/S/S blows.

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[MeredithMan]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Correct. But did the Germans pay attention to peoples desire for remote start?

Interesting...do you have either older or very new Audis and MBs? We have a 2017 MB SUV and a 2019 Audi sedan and they both have the annoying "auto-off when stopped" feature, (dare I call it that?)

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

Interesting...do you have either older or very new Audis and MBs? We have a 2017 MB SUV and a 2019 Audi sedan and they both have the annoying "auto-off when stopped" feature, (dare I call it that?)

He was asking about remote start.
Starting the vehicle with a key fob or app on our phone.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

German cars are known to preheat the HVAC air. My MB and Audi is already warm in the cockpit by the time I hit the end of the street. So remote start is not an issue with me.
My GF Forester with remote start at 15 minutes from start is still freezing!

I rent a number of American and Asian cars. None heat up as fast as the German cars,

I use remote start often to cool or heat the car before I get in. When parked outside, it is (was ) nice to melt he snow and ice before I opened the door and watched it fall on the seat. Even when out on errands, I start the car while walking to it with the thought that a couple of minutes for it to warm the fluids before I drive it is good for the car.

[AC2717]

wife's 2023 Grand Cherokee has it. have to ether shut it off each trip or what I have found if you do not fully extend the brake pedal to the floor or complete the full extension of the brake pedal it does not activate it. Maybe other makes and models do the same

[tis]

It doesn't bother me at all. I have no idea what it does to the car and sounds like others can't agree on that either, but I am fine with it.

[MeredithMan]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

He was asking about remote start.
Starting the vehicle with a key fob or app on our phone.

I understand what he was asking and I know what remote start is. However, he also wrote "correct", referencing Broadhopper's post about MBs and Audis not having the "auto shut off" feature, hence my question. I probably should have quoted Broadhopper's post as well for clarity.

[John Mercier]

Sorry, misread.

I read his post as complaining that they added the auto-start/stop without paying attention to the trends, and should have added the remote start - but that also was ignoring a trend.

The "luxury" market always befuddles me.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

Interesting...do you have either older or very new Audis and MBs? We have a 2017 MB SUV and a 2019 Audi sedan and they both have the annoying "auto-off when stopped" feature, (dare I call it that?)

German SUVs are made in America, hench the Americanization. Most German SUVs are rebadge American SUVs. SUVs are not popular in Europe.

My 2020 A5 Sportback does not have the "auto off" feature. Made in Stuttgart!

[dippasan]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

It’s part of my startup procedure to turn it off…

Buckle up
Check mirrors
Adjust heat setting
Shut off dumb ass auto on/off

Dan

Exactly
I don't see it as a burden to turn off every time I start it but if I had a choice...it'd be off all the time.

Pushing the garage door button after leaving is another step in the departure check list.

[BroadHopper]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...f023af9c&ei=32