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#1 |
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Since kayakers seem to want free run of the lake , I've run across a power boat suitable for kayak territory. After all , isn't turnabout fair play
![]() Not only that , maybe a speed limit won't extend up creeks ![]() ![]() http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtXkpytTD3s
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#2 | |
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Just remember that you can only go 6 mph, unless you are more than 150 feet from shore and from other boats. There are not too many "creeks" in NH that are over 300 feet wide. ![]()
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#3 | |
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![]() I believe those kayakers would love to be up the creek with those powerboats but with their paddles. There must not be any 150 foot rule up that creek and it looked like fun. How slow was that boat measured in feet per hour?
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#4 |
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The boat did not appear to be going 45mph. I felt unsafe just watching the video. Kept expecting to hit a rock.
Proud to say I have not made a Kayak unsafe ever. Except for the one I tried to get into years ago. |
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#5 | |
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While the video gave me quite the belly laugh, and I also had to wonder what kind of hull this boat had to hit those rocks and shallows and survive.
I have to agree with Evenstar on this one; Quote:
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#6 |
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Agreed,she is right.6 mph when within 150 of boats(and yes that includes Kayaks)A law that is ALREADY in place.
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#7 | |
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Looks like a lot of fun. I'd try it for sure. |
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#8 |
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Those hulls are flat bottom Jet boats and the bottom have a 1" thick plate of Teflon ( like a snow machine slider or a bed liner for your truck) which allows them to slide over most anything...with them being jet driven like a sea doo they require very little water and there is nothing to drag...theres about a million videos of those boats, they are very popular out west and the over seas..and yes they go well over 45 have a tremendous amount of Hp but are very inefficient turning it into speed
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#9 |
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Why don't people understand this principle? There are plenty of laws that regulate speed on the lakes. There is too much personal attacks instead of debating which issues are important and then debating the issues.
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#10 | |
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#11 | |
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They point to a study they think says nobody is speeding (it doesn't), while forgetting the simple reality that if nobody is speeding, then nobody will be inconvenienced by this law. The few that own these expensive, highly polluting, global warming, gas hogs, fly around the lake at speeds up to 130 mph scaring the living hell out of family boaters. They have no concept of how many small boaters, including children's campers, they are keeping off of the water. They are coming to Winnipesaukee because the are being regulated off other lakes. As this trend continues their numbers will grow. Their wakes kill loons, and erode the shore. The water quality of the lake is slowly dropping. What this is really about is money. The marine manufacturer's and people that sell and service high performance boats will do ANYTHING, tell any lie, play any card, enlist any well intentioned freedom lover, to stop this legislation. |
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#12 | |
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![]() I do believe that your post reached an all time low and it is the most offensive piece of untruth, bias, and downright hate. If I am alone so be it but I'd like to see what the rest of this community thinks about Bear Islanders latest post. I for one am disgusted by it. |
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#13 | |
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You said it well and I agree. I am not only disgusted, but really put off by his latest post. |
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#14 | |
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A perfect example of what your accusing the opposition of doing.
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#15 |
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Great post BI! They hate to hear the truth!
The age old excuse of the polluters is to say someone else is polluting more. As if that excuses their behavior. It doesn't matter how much fuel BI may waste elsewhere. It's a way to attack the messenger when their arguments fail. Anyone thinking wakes don't destroy loon nests should do a little reading. |
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#16 | |
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Don't you get it? Obviously you do not. Performance boat wakes are not the biggest wakes on the lake. Not by a long shot. If this is a crusade against wakes and the harm they do to the loons lets hit the problem head on. Hmmmmm I know lets BAN THE SOPHIE C. Oh but wait the Sophie goe slow and brings precious mail to Bear Island. We can't ban Sophie. Why not? The loons are suffering and they are dying. Sophie does have the biggest wake on the lake. ![]() |
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#17 | ||||||||
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Your claim of crowded lake is also a problem. Yes, Bear Island may be crowded, but its just one of 360+ islands. Most of the lake, most of the time, is not crowded. This is another reason to oppose the new restrictions. I saw three boats this morning. Where is the danger in going 80 in that crowd? Quote:
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This is one point of view, and one that the speed limit opponents disagree with. What this is really about is the existing freedom to satisfy a need for speed that is being threatened without valid cause.
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#18 |
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I think BI needs a time out. Go to your corner and we will let you know when it's time to come out!
Loons, this is my favorite, I went to the Loon Preservation place in Moultonborough, years ago when all this speed limit nonsense started. I didn't reveal my intentions for asking questions but I asked this one. What is the #1 threat to loons. Their answer: Paddlers!!!!! They think it's ok to paddle up to these loon nesting areas, and in doing so cause great stress to the loons, some of the chicks have heart attacks because of it. Funny how now years later(I am sure no one from winnfabs donates the loon society) the #1 threat appears to be performance boats. I personally have had it up to here with all the B.S. I can't wait for the Senate vote, because then it will be over, or at least for now. I need a break, I want to enjoy our lake, and not have to talk about HB 847. I wish Don would just ban this subject, it has divided what once was a fun place to post. |
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#19 | |
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Being the open minded individual I am I'll let this one slide and say that I'm sure it is a very small percentage of paddlers who are ignorant enough to disturb a nesting site. I hope. But those awful power boaters, they oughta be run out of town. They must be responsible for some other major issue. Like..... rainy Saturdays or something. Has to be their fault. ![]() |
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#20 | |
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First of all, I don't paddle anywhere near loon nesting sites, nor do I know any other paddlers who do. Most paddlers (at least all the ones I know - who actually live here) are very environmentally responsible people. Last year I worked for a Senator who was on the Wildlife, Fish and Game committee so I was very involved with the NH Fish and Game, since I often had to attend meetings when my Senator had a conflict. I've met personally several times with a biologist who studies NH loons, and I attended hearings on bills drafted to protect loons. Never once did anyone from the Fish and Game or this biologist state that paddlers were causing loons to die. They all said that the #1 cause was from lead poisoning, and the #2 reason was being struck by powerboats. The Loon Preservation Committee (yes, the one in Moultonborough) actually states on their website: "Results of our mortality studies have shown that lead sinkers and jigs are the primary cause of death of adult loons, while boat and personal watercraft collisions account for more chick deaths than any other cause."
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#21 |
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hazelnut, I don't think it is a very small percentage of paddlers who disturb the loons. We have had babies the last few years and they stay in a protected cove and people paddle as close as they can to see them. The loons then feel trapped as they get close. You can see the loons getting very nervous and start trying to swim out around them. We and our neighbors often have to yell at them to stay their distance. I don't think they mean any harm, they want to see them, but don't realize when they go so close they scare them. They don't use their heads and think about what they are doing.
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#22 | |
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#23 |
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This is a good example of misdirection. I say big wakes kill loons, the response is that paddlers also kill loons.
If I say big boats cause pollution, the response is, spacecraft cause pollution. Point the finger at the other guy. Other people pollute, so its ok for you to pollute. Other boats kill loons, so its ok if your boat kills loons. Take responsibility for your own actions, stop blaming others. The question is do big wakes kill loons. The answer, if anyone cares to check, is yes. |
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#24 |
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I , for one , love loons. They're really good with barbeque sauce
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#25 |
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#26 | |
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#27 | |
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NO not misdirection at all. It is called hearing the truth Bear Islander and it hurts. #1 Remember I am not the one sitting up in my glass castle pointing the finger at all of the polluters and loon killers. Do as I say not as I do, right BI? I'm the guy with the modest runabout. I'm not the guy jetting around in planes and rockets. So if anything I take offense to you criticizing ANYONE for their actions with regard to pollution. My actions pollute far less than you and I'm sure there are many who pollute more than you. However, unless you want to sacrifice the recreational activities that you enjoy that cause pollution then I suggest you give up on that argument. #2 You blame "big wakes" for killing loons. Well you need to back that up with statistical data that shows that those wakes belong to the boats you are trying to rid the lake of. You also need to accept that paddlers have just as negative an impact on the loon population. That information came from the Loon Preservation Center, not your personal opinion. Sure I will accept that wakes kill loons, but lets all share the blame because your runabout carries a pretty big wake climbing up on plane as does mine. Misdirection? I hardly think so. |
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#28 |
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Yes, scientific fact.
http://www.ffdp.ca/hww2.asp?cid=7&id=53 http://www.pc.gc.ca/apprendre-learn/...an3case4_e.asp Please don't respond that other things kill loons, we all know that. However I would be interested in data that shows loons are NOT effected by boat wakes. Hazelnut wants me to post the bow numbers of boats that kill loons. Sorry, I can't do that. I will fall back on the knowledge that bigger boats have bigger wakes. |
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#29 | |
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#30 |
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Bigger boats make bigger wakes. When we start regulating boats, should we start with the little ones? Everybody pollutes a little, its a matter of degree.
Lower horsepower means less environmental impact. You seem to feel that only people that don't pollute can complain about pollution. That's ridiculous, I live in the real world. I will "point my finger" where I see fit. |
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As has said before BI, waves don't kill loons, people who are too stupid to stop their wake when they see a loon is what hurts them! Big boats and fast boats don't hurt a thing! The people who don't know how to drive them (and I don't think that is so many) do.
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#32 |
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Maybe you can start with a mirror.
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#33 | |
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#34 | |
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Paddlers and wakes are not the main cases (although wakes can destroy their nests). Yes, people control boats - it is the action of people that determine how fast a boat goes (within the boats capabilities). Guess what? The speed limit controls the people! So perhaps you should all think of this bill as a people-speed limit, rather than a law against boats - which many here have been suggesting.
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#35 |
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"Lower horsepower means less environmental impact."
Bear Islander with all due respect you are kidding right??... A 10 horsepower or similar outboard manufactured in the 60's, 70's or 80's which MANY small aluminum boats use on the lake, pollute FAR more than any of todays newer four stroke or two stroke Etec style engines with horsepower up to 300 H.P. Dan |
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#37 | |
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Try comparing outboards made in the same year by the same manufacturer. That is a reasonable comparison. |
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#38 | |
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What do you think is better for the lake, a 32' Whaler Outrage with twin 250hp Verados or 2 19' starcrafts with 80's vintage Merc 90's? IMHO the 4 stroke, more efficent loop charged Verados even though the HP is considerably more. If you truly want to work on something to prevent added pollution, how about pushing for a ban on 2 strokes? This will help curb pollution much more than limiting engines to 300hp. |
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#39 | |
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http://www.des.state.nh.us/factsheets/ard/ard-31.htm My boat engine is three star rated, is yours? CARB'S One Star label identifies engines that meet CARB's 2001 exhaust emission standards. Engines meeting these standards produce 75% fewer emissions than conventional carbureted two-stroke engines. These engines are equivalent to the US EPA's 2006 standards for marine engines. The Two Star label identifies engines that meet CARB's 2004 exhaust emission standards. Engines meeting these standards produce 20% fewer emissions than One Star (Low Emission) engines. The Three Star label identifies engines that meet CARB's 2008 exhaust emission standards. Engines meeting these standards produce 65% fewer emissions than One Star (Low Emission) engines. |
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You have written about your dream to impose a horse power limit on the lake as well. If you think the wake of a boat on plane is an errosion problem think of what the wake created by an underpower boat will be! Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. As for water quality, as has been pointed out you keep targeting newer engines that are far less polluting than older engines. Maybe in BI’s world no one has a boat or engine older than a year but in the real world that is not the case. Quote:
Originally posted by Hazelnut: Quote:
Any credibility that Bear Islander still had with me on this subject, and it wasn’t much at this point, has been expended. So, proponents and opponents I call on both sides to urge the adoption of USCG Navigation Rule 6 in place of HB 847 and both sides will get what they say they want. |
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#41 |
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B.I.
I fully agree that my comparison is unfair, but that is part of my point... I have been reading this thread with great interest, and while I certainly agree you have a right to your opinion, I feel you are grasping at straws to make your speed limit point. The death of loons by wake and saying higher horsepower motors cause more environmental impact, just discredits your position immensely. One of your points in your previous post state that lower horsepower has less environmental impact. If environmental impact is one of the reasons, you are going after a speed limit on the lake, why not go after the 70 year old man fishing in his 12 foot Jon boat with his vintage 10 HP Johnson, Evinrude, or Mercury blowing smoke, oil, and other pollutants all over lake?? Is it because he can't speed, so polluting the lake is O.K.?? Am I missing something here?? The fact is a large percentage of the motors on the lake are small older two strokes that cause 15 times the pollution of newer engines, and I am sure you are aware that many vacation camps and local fisherman have one of these tied up to their dock. Just so you understand my position, I am completely against a speed limit on the lake. In my opinion, all that is needed is enforcment of the current laws and in particular the 150' rule. Believe it or not it really is that simple... Regards; Dan |
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#42 |
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You folks have found a new low in logic!
Over and over we hear that if you are not familiar with the lake and boating your opinion about speed or horsepower limits (like in a poll) doesn't matter. Now you can't advocate horsepower limits if you have a power boat, because that must be hypocritical. So who can have an opinion on horsepower limits? It has to be someone that has boating experience on Winnipesaukee but has recently gotten rid of their boat because of environmental concerns. Out of the billions on this planet only what... 4 or 5 can have an opinion about horsepower limits. ![]() I believe BI also supports a ban on two stroke engines. |
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#43 | |
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Stop guessing. The Marine Patrol controls people more than any speed limit could. Enforcement keeps people under control.
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#44 | |
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You are missing the point entirely. I'm sorry if I believe it to be completely disingenuous at best for someone to tell others what to do when they are themselves an offender. If you don't believe that to be the case here then I am sorry. Change begins with oneself and if Bear Islander wants the rest of the users of the lake to stop polluting, killing loons, and have a lower horsepower boat then he should begin by insuring he fits within those parameters himself. Otherwise it comes off as a hollow, politician like stance. Again, "Do as I say not as I do." |
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#45 | |
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Please tell us who IS entitled to advocate a horsepower limit? |
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However, you are more than bit hypocritical when you start bringing up environmental issues.... especially considering all that you have accomplished! How is it you can justify burning TONS of hydrocarbon laden jet fuel to fly you and your family out west, to burn TONS more jet fuel to get the rocket to launch altitude, then burn more fuel so you can spend a few minutes weightless? I suppose I could harp on the TONS of jet fuel that was required to get your butt to staging point for your trip the North Pole, or the HUNDREDS OF TONS of jet fuel required to get your butt to staging point for your trip to the South Pole.... Don't get me wrong, I think its GREAT that you are successful enough to afford making your dreams a reality... However, you can't go pointing fingers at other peoples choices of recreation when your choices pollute far more.... Woodsy
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#47 | |
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Unless your aluminum boat has oars or an engine made within the last 2 years you may also want to drop the pollution argument because you're polluting more than several boats combined. Your horsepower limit equated to saving loons and solving pollution comes off as laughable when you are a contributor. Consider it an attack if you will. I am merely asking you to look in the mirror before you post ramblings that cast a negative shadow over "everyone else" but yourself. |
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Google "surfacing loon", and I'll give you the benefit of my having witnessed a surfacing loon—who promptly retreated to the depths, splashing me—while in my sailboat!
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#49 | |
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#50 | |
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#51 | |
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A few years ago I traded in my PWC for an aluminum boat with oars and a small four stoke. I miss my GTX. I use the small boat for most daily runs. However I believe that living on an island a larger boat is needed at times. YOU are the one that said my aluminum boat is not safe in all water temperatures and weather conditions! I agree to the point that I think I need a larger boat for safety at times. I don't know what kind of boat I will buy to replace my bowrider when that time comes. But pollution, horsepower and wake will be a large part of my decision. The "look in the mirror" type of argument can be made about anybody that owns a power boat. If they don't own a power boat then the obviously have no idea what they are talking about. Did you ever see "Catch 22". |
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The few that own these expensive, highly polluting, global warming, gas hogs, fly around the lake at speeds up to 130 mph... If this is your concern you are going backwards by legislating newer cleaner burning boats off the lake. Oh and by the way give me a break with the flying around at 130mph. They are coming to Winnipesaukee because the are being regulated off other lakes. As this trend continues their numbers will grow. Their wakes kill loons, and erode the shore. This was YOUR quote directed at Performance boats, now you are switching gears to this because you dug yourself another hole: Big wakes, especially when the lake is high in the spring can destroy loon nests or wash out the eggs. The bigger cruisers can cause huge wakes. They are not "just as capable" they are "far more capable", and far more likely. Perhaps you don't get a lot of wake where you are, but I get plenty. The wake from our boats is not much more than I get on a windy day. The big cruisers wake is a lot more than the Mount, other tourist boats or the Bear. Am I the only one seeing this????? ![]() ![]() ![]() I feel like I'm talking to a politician. ![]() |
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#56 | |
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There are no inconsistencies in the posts you quote, you are looking for what is not there, and jumping on nothing at all. I have NO IDEA what your point is about those three examples in bold type. Every word is absolute truth! |
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Geesh BI...if laws and regulation where made on peoples likes a dislikes we would have regulations on EVERYTHING. Voice your opinion but please do not justify why your opinions should be laws. If people like yourself are SCARED TO HELL by other boats you should ask your self why??? Is it just the sheer speed of them passing by?? Or are they too close?? Are you intimidated by the size??? Why then don't we stop all the big trucks on the highway bc they scare the crap out of my little old grandmom?!
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We need you to come back to reality....thats why.
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#61 |
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BIg trucks on the highways require a commercial drivers license and all violations stay on your record for fifteen years. For trucks, the posted speed limit is the speed limit. No fudge factor above what's posted is allowed by the police. Most highway lanes are 12' wide, and tractor trailers have a trailer that is 8 1/2' wide, and lane control is a big deal. Truckers can get ticketed for being out of their lane for lousy lane control.
Unlike Lake Winnipesaukee, NH's road system has lanes with painted lines, and speed limits. Doesn't Lake Winnipesaukee need a 45-25 speed limit on the proposed HB 847, two year temporary trial basis from Jan 1, 2009 to Jan 1, 2011. After two years, the Marine Patrol will have lots of speed limit enforcement experience for the legislature to consider. HB 847 is not carved into granite, it's a two year look-see, and then gets reconsidered. Why not give it a try? Let's try it...after all....you just might like it. ![]() Hey, by January 1, 2011, the republicans could be back in the majority at the statehouse, and what will they do?
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#62 | |
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Bear Islander, if you go and post your thoughts on an open forum you are opening yourself up to analysis and criticism. ESPECIALLY in a highly debated topic forum. Also, it is not inconsistencies that I am looking for. You posted opinions that you claim are facts. Your opinions are most certainly not factual. I won't use the word lie but you have stretched the truth beyond reason. So if you need me to further explain why I bold typed those latest whoppers I will. The few that own these expensive, highly polluting, global warming, gas hogs, fly around the lake at speeds up to 130 mph... S T R E T C H. Prove it. Where are the 130mph TERRORIZING family boaters. Prove it. Which boats on the lake are REALLY causing the most pollution and causing "Global Warming." Then you yourself originally blamed High Performance boats for killing baby loons in this statement: They [Performance Boats] are coming to Winnipesaukee because the are being regulated off other lakes. As this trend continues their numbers will grow. Their wakes kill loons, and erode the shore. However when pushed and questioned you changed your statement to this: Big wakes, especially when the lake is high in the spring can destroy loon nests or wash out the eggs. The bigger cruisers can cause huge wakes. They are not "just as capable" they are "far more capable", and far more likely. So which is Bear Islander? Who is killing the baby loons? Why do I even raise the issue? It goes right back to the word of the day. Credibility. Opinions are one thing but you sling around these "facts" and expect everyone to believe them. I ain't buyin' it sorry. Little known fact: Go back and search the old forum. I once raised the issue of having a Speed Limit. Yup, surprise, surprise, I was once an undecided, leaning towards a limit. Over the years I would read these forums and I became convinced otherwise due to the CREDIBLE posts by the opposition. I was also driven to this viewpoint by rants from the proponents, who I felt were disingenuous in their motives. You make some of the strongest cases every day as to why I do NOT support a speed limit. In other words I feel that you hurt the position rather than help it. Just my opinion though. |
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#63 |
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Thanks, now at least I know what you are getting at.
ALL high horsepower boats create big wakes, GFBL and cabin cruisers. They BOTH kill loons and pollute the lake. They belong on the ocean, not Lake Winnipesaukee. See, there wasn't any discrepancy. Just you looking for one. |
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#64 | |
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You can expect that if you advocate for something hypocritical to your lifestyle, stuff like saving fuel and preventing poluution, that others will use that fact to discredit the cause you advocate for. |
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#66 | |
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#67 |
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Here is a monster wake coming off a 30' twin engine 600hp gas guzzling shoreline eroding loon killing (8500lb dry weight) bowrider at 58mph. I can really see the concern this wake would cause... :rolleye1
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#68 |
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298SS, right? Nice riding, great looking, nicely priced, and often overlooked boat. A friend of mine that's been in the industry for 45 years told me that it has the finest riding hull of any 30 footer he's ever been aboard. He's on his second Monterrey, a 330.
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#69 | |
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You got it! Great boat. I love the 330SY, just more boat than I need. If I did not have a house on the water that would be my choice. For comparison, here is what 18mph looks like in a 22' bowrider with 260hp and no ballast. This one is a Rinker 226 R1. Which one looks like the loon killer? Cal, got any extra BBQ sauce? ![]() |
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#70 |
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If you have ever seen the waves that mother nature whips up several times a year and believe that boat wakes kill loons it is hard to imagine that any of them could possibly survive.
If we could just figure out how to disguise boat wakes to look like little natural waves. |
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#71 | ||
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NorTech, capable of 130-MPH on Winnipesaukee, is a tunnel hull design: it has "high horsepower". It is similar to the tunnel hull boat that passed me at about 110-MPH (too close to my dock) and a Hobie (too close to the Hobie, which had five young girls on it). ![]() It was remarkable to see the water left with no wake at all! Tunnel hulls ride on a cushion of air, unlike most other designs. ![]() 1) Loon nestlings are not necessarily the victims of excess speed on the lake. Like the endangered manatee elsewhere or the not-so-endangered diver at Winnipesaukee, Loons are exposed to excessive speedsters when surfacing for air. 2) How can a polluter with 2000 horsepower can be compared to one with 20 horsepower? ![]() 3) If any horsepower-restriction approach is worthwhile for Winnipesaukee, a NASCAR solution would be more efficient: restrict the air-intake diameter. However, a speed limit is easier to monitor (by cellphone-equipped boater-victims) and enforce (by officers), particularly at night.
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#72 | |
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#74 | |
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Here is an article from 2006 done by an independent source. Readers In Poll Say ‘No’ to Winnipesaukee Speed Limits Manchester — October 1, 2006 — Keep Lake Winnipesaukee free of speed limits for boaters, urged a majority of people responding to a New Hampshire Union Leader Web survey. “The real issue on Winnipesaukee (or any other body) is that some boaters still choose to operate under the influence of stupidity,” wrote speed-limit opponent Kevin Drew of Milford. “Unfortunately, there is no law against that.” By nearly a 2-to-1 margin, respondents gave a thumb’s down to a push to convince the state Department of Safety to set a 45 mph speed limit on the state’s largest lake during the day and a 25 mph limit at night. The Legislature already defeated a similar proposal this year. The same petition process was used to set speed limits on Squam Lake about 10 years ago. Boats passing within 150 feet of each other are required to slow to headway speed, six miles per hour, but often don’t. Read it here http://ossipeelake.org/news/2006/10/...-speed-limits/ |
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#75 | |
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2. It has been talked about that any speeding ticket you get on the lake would go onto your driving record. 3. The state of NH has a 150' rule. 4. Boaters can be ticketed for violating the 150' rule. |
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#76 | |
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On www.offshoreonly.com a request was posted with a link asking everyone to go post on the Union Leader survey. |
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[QUOTE=Cal;66635]Since kayakers seem to want free run of the lake , I've run across a power boat suitable for kayak territory. After all , isn't turnabout fair play
![]() Not only that , maybe a speed limit won't extend up creeks ![]() ![]() Kayakers should be able to paddle the lake where ever and when ever they want to. It is up to those of us who have motor boats to respect their space and make it safe, no matter what speed. I am sure Kayakers enjoy a few waves that the boats make as long as wakes aren't spray from boats passing to close. Basic consideration is the issue here, not speed. |
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Votes are votes. |
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#80 | |
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I think we should do a "Do the Yankees Suck?" survey at Fenway Park. That way we can settle the question at last. After all "votes are votes"! |
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![]() ![]() ![]() For the record, the Yankees do suck. |
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#82 | |
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I like your idea about the Fenway Survey though. ![]() ![]() |
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Readers should examine everything you say because you also post what you claim to be facts not only your opinions. Some of us believe that your facts (or should I say opinions) are not always accurate. Sometimes it appears like your "opinion" changes. Of course you have the right to change your mind but you can not change facts. You can twist them. You just do not like it when contradictions of your facts, or should I say opinions, are pointed out. You can lie about facts. |
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Here's a quote of interest: Quote:
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#86 | |
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My opinions on the subjects of boats, speed and horsepower have not changed in years. Any evidence to the contrary is either my fault in not expressing myself well, or the readers fault in over analyzing what I say. Recently Hazelnut thought I was being inconsistent because in one post I claimed cabin cruisers were killing loons, and in another post I claimed GFBLs were killing loons. He made quite a thing about it not realizing the (to me) obvious answer that both are true. Do you go over the posts of speed limit opponents as carefully as you go over mine? Are you as quick to find "inconsistencies"? Do you make as big a deal out of any perceived error? I think there is a natural human tendency to think that those that agree with us must be telling the truth, and those that disagree with us must be lying. |
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So winnfabs is concerned with "arriving alive", and I think that is great. But when was the last time that someone did not "arrive alive" due to a high speed accident? |
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Last summer on Long Lake.
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#90 |
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Does Maine have a 150ft safe passage law?
If I post "Bush is an idiot" that is obviously opinion even if I don't specify. Actually that one borders on factual. ![]() I say that as a Registered Republican. GO McCain!! ![]() |
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#92 | |
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2. New Hampshire has no shield of invulnerability that protects boats from fatal accidents. That accident could just as easily have happened on Winnipesaukee. 3. I am not connected with WinnFABS. Hazelnut- Can you explain how the accident would have been prevented by a 150' rule? GO McCain! (one of my clients) |
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I'll take a stab at this. you've previously pointed out that if a law is enacted, that people will simply obey the law without the need for much enforcement. following that logic, the long lake accident would have been prevented by the 150' law simply because the driver of the boat would have had to slow down to head way speed when coming within 150' of shore. no one dies with the 150' law in place on long lake. ![]()
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#94 | |
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I never said you were connected to winnfabs. APS brought it up in his post, not me. I was replying to him initially. And yes, that accident could have happened on Winnipesaukee. It could have happened on the Merrimack River. It could have happened on [gasp] Squam Lake. How could it have happened on Squam Lake when they already have a speed limit you ask? Well if one is going to get drunk and fire up their boat, they could theoretically do it anywhere. Even GFBLs come on trailers. But it didn't happen in any of those places. It happened on Long Lake. In the beautiful state of Maine. |
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There was no one on board to slow it down. |
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Also, if there was no one IN his boat and the boat continued on to crash onshore, he obviously didn't avail himself of the kill switch lanyard included on most performance boats. I'll presume that's another bad choice considering his inebriated condition.
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I can't get my head around how performance boats can cause more wake damage than other boats. Now mind you I am not a Marine Engineer here, but having spent a fair amount of time water skiing behind boats that makes no sense to me. I have slalomed, wake boarded, and knee boarded behind a few different boats. When you slalom ski you want the boat to be going faster because the wake is smaller. Now when you wake board or knee board you want the boat to be going slower to make a bigger wake for tricks. OK so using that logic how can a performance boat on plane cause more wake damage than any other type of boat? Also by design performance boats are long and proportionately thinner boats than other designs, so at slower speeds the hull cuts through the water causing less "plowing" of water which causes a smaller wake. Have you ever been behind a ski boat going at slow speeds? The hull tends to plow through the water causing a large wake for the size of the boat, which is great for a wakeboarder, but not so much for a loon's nest. So please can someone explain to me in scientific terms where this logic has validity? No agendas here just seems that the logic is flawed to me.
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#98 | |
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However the accident it question MIGHT have been prevented by a speed limit. The operator brought the boat up from Massachusetts. If Long Lake had a speed limit he MAY have gone elsewhere. Although a speed limit MIGHT keep high speed boats off of a lake, a horsepower limit almost certainly would have. A central point that keeps falling on deaf ears is that a boat that is not ON the lake can't be involved in an accident. Parrothead- If you move to a place just outside of a no-wake-zone you will learn about GFBLs and wake. On plane they may have a reasonable wake. However when they are starting up they have as big a wake as any boat on the lake. All that horsepower has to go somewhere. I'm sure good operators can lessen these effects. But most do not. |
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You hit the nail on the head, basic consideration is the issue along with a little common sense. Thing is both seem to completely disappear when it comes to any recreational activity, in that there are those that come hell or high water I'm going to have a good time, how I see fit, and screw what everyone else thinks or is bothered by it. Well now you see what happens as a result, more laws put on the books to try to legislate behavior. Fact is a speed limit is highly affective, it's much easier to challenge a ticket for reckless operation than it is for breaking a speed limit. I welcome the speed limit experiment, will be interesting to see if it makes any difference at all. My guess is it won't.
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and... Senators vote on laws that affect case law produced by the Supreme Court of New Hampshire. Here's 504,000 reasons New Hampshire Senators must consider high-speed crashes from other jurisdictions. Quote:
I had previously chosen a spam-voter from Boston, as he would also likely spam any on-line poll for unlimited speeds on New Hampshire's inland protected waters. Here they go: ![]() Quote:
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![]() ![]() I use History, whereas BI uses Logic... Opponents seem stuck in the same arguments with BI, and may just not want to read what I'm finding in History; for example, did you see the on-line post on "I drove drunk" by the creator of the "A.I.S." condition? ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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