When does it end? How can it?

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I really don’t know what to think anymore. I don’t understand how something as simple as putting on a mask when you’re out in public has become such a huge inconvenience that people refuse to do it.

Because the use of masks, "social distancing" and isolation is NOT EFFECTIVE, this is not opinion but fact that continues to roll into to ongoing studies and fed into the CDC.

The reason why this information is NOT getting out into the public is by choice. I know I see what we are sending to the CDC as far as results go and it is quite different than what they are making public.

Imagine the panic that would ensue if the federal government basically stated the truth? There is a virus on the loose, it is HIGHLY contagious and there are no effective physical mitigations that can be employed? What I find hilarious is that people actually believe that standing 6 foot away from another does anything, or that wearing a mask most who wear them wrong anyways, does anything at all when the virus can easily penetrate the materials and spread. Seriously?

The good thing is that there are medications that can be used to treat this that are continue to show success and even better - it appears that as this thing continues to spread it is loosing it's potency. Meaning those that are being infected now are not suffering the acute symptoms as when this first hit in the early stages.

I for one am not going to subject myself to engaging is behavior that is silly, stupid and useless. If a business says I can't come in cause I don't have a mask on - fine see you later I'll go elsewhere. This nonsense has to stop.

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Biggd

The moniker I've chosen has nothing to do with what your dirty mind has thought up but I expect nothing less from you.

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Yes, Biggd. I’m sure many of us have user names that others make assumptions that are not true. I know everyone has a reason for picking theirs, but it’s meaning is not always obvious.

[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by Jan

Why? I reread his post several times and still can't understand why is it so "low"? You didn't explain that or give your opinion. Why are you so intolerant of his opinion?

Thank you for asking.

Major's comment - "The highest risk group appears to be fat people. So if you are old and/or fat, the responsibility is yours, not mine, to take care of yourself" is offensive and totally lacking in tolerance or compassion. Like many others have said in multiple threads - this is an "I don't care about you...I care about me" attitude.

My mother-in-law is in her late-90s. Due to medical issues and failing mental capacity, she is incapable of caring for herself. In Major's eyes, she is old and fat. This wonderful woman now relies on compassionate family members and a cadre of outside support to survive. If I may appeal to any sense of compassion in Major, she also supported her young husband through his Air Force service during WWII and through his long fight with cancer afterwards that culminated in his death 38 years ago. She continued to raise her three children after that. If he was alive today, he'd be appalled at the lack of compassion for others that is on full display in many of Major's posts.

If there's anything this nation needs more of right now - it's compassion.

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Yes, think. Florida had over 9000 cases yesterday. The numbers went from 2000 people a day to 3000 to 5000 and now we’re almost at 10,000 people a day. Almost 15% of people being tested now are positive. The average age of a coronavirus patient is now 31. When the bars and restaurants opened up, young people saw it as a green light. Also, they hit the gyms and were not wearing masks because the governor won’t make it a requirement. Many cities are now requiring masks and people are fighting back. I don’t see how this can ever end.

At one point in this thread early on there was a discussion that Covid-19 is nothing more than a bad case of the FLU... Is that still the suggestion? This is a very serious situation now. NOt sure how it is going to end. It is up to individuals to wear a mask and social distance really does work. There have been so many proven cases. We are snow birds...not sure if we will be this Winter if this keeps getting worse.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Because the use of masks, "social distancing" and isolation is NOT EFFECTIVE, this is not opinion but fact that continues to roll into to ongoing studies and fed into the CDC.

The reason why this information is NOT getting out into the public is by choice. I know I see what we are sending to the CDC as far as results go and it is quite different than what they are making public.

Imagine the panic that would ensue if the federal government basically stated the truth? There is a virus on the loose, it is HIGHLY contagious and there are no effective physical mitigations that can be employed? What I find hilarious is that people actually believe that standing 6 foot away from another does anything, or that wearing a mask most who wear them wrong anyways, does anything at all when the virus can easily penetrate the materials and spread. Seriously?

The good thing is that there are medications that can be used to treat this that are continue to show success and even better - it appears that as this thing continues to spread it is loosing it's potency. Meaning those that are being infected now are not suffering the acute symptoms as when this first hit in the early stages.

I for one am not going to subject myself to engaging is behavior that is silly, stupid and useless. If a business says I can't come in cause I don't have a mask on - fine see you later I'll go elsewhere. This nonsense has to stop.

Several pieces of misinformation in here:

Masks and social distancing are not perfect, but have both proven effective in different ways. I think it was Charlie Baker (but maybe it was somebody similar) who said the best thing you can do to stop the virus is to stay home, second best is to wear a mask. ApS has a nice graphic on this above.

The federal government experts (Fauci, Birx, Redfield, etc) have told us the truth--there is a very dangerous virus, and there's no perfect shield

There is no medicine available that has shown the kind of success that should make any of us feel less danger. A few points less on the death toll is nice, but not a game changer.

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I just read an interesting story. The co-founder of OpenMaryland , a group that tried to force Governor Hogan to rescind his stay at home orders back in April and who attended all kinds of rallies while claiming that the coronavirus is just a hoax has tested positive for the virus. He claims that he has not worn a mask at any of the rallies and no one has gotten sick until he tried to start a church.

He claims that Satan gave him the virus to stop him from spreading the word. He says he refuses to change his behavior and will continue to not wear a mask and he will not cooperate with authorities to help with contact tracing and that anyone who came in contact with him in the past is responsible for his own well-being.

So now, we have people walking around who are testing positive and are still out and about and have no problem infecting others.
I guess the devil made him do it, LOL. Who used to say that all the time?

Flip Wilson! His character, Geraldine, I believe. What a great show that was!

[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by Major

I'll take the bait. Do you think our young people today would have the moral fortitude and courage to do what those young men did in 1944? That is the point of the post. We have raised a bunch of selfish, cowardly generation of young men who do not appreciate the freedoms and liberties we all enjoy. Like everything else in their lives, they take EVERYTHING for granted. When the Chinese storm our beaches, who will be there to defend us? Will we want to be defended? Our values have gone down the sink hole, and it isn't because of the feared orange man as people like you refer to him. It is because of 50 plus years of liberal mob think invading our institutions, such as education, government and military. He has only been President for 3+ years. To think he caused what we are seeing in our major cities is plain stupid.

Geez Major, of all people I hope you are not discounting the bravery of our current armed forces that are at this very minute in harms way. I also found the comparison misguided. My father was one of those men 75 years ago. He received 4 campaign ribbons and the bronze star. The unfortunate irony in that image is that not all those veterans from WWII are gone. Now they are at the highest risk of succumbing to this “hoax” virus. ‘Thank you for your bravery 75 years ago and the freedoms it brought to the world. Sorry I dont value your life enough today to wear a mask.’


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[Biggd]

You're not going to change the thoughts of some people who think wearing a mask is an infringement on their rights. They don't care about others, only themselves and their right to do what ever they want. I don't like wearing a mask but I certainly don't look at it as an infringement on my rights. I look at it as my civic duty to do what's right. It's not that big a deal as people are making it out to be. There is nothing more important in life than health.

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[Major]

Originally Posted by Jdarby

Geez Major, of all people I hope you are not discounting the bravery of our current armed forces that are at this very minute in harms way. I also found the comparison misguided. My father was one of those men 75 years ago. He received 4 campaign ribbons and the bronze star. The unfortunate irony in that image is that not all those veterans from WWII are gone. Now they are at the highest risk of succumbing to this “hoax” virus. ‘Thank you for your bravery 75 years ago and the freedoms it brought to the world. Sorry I dont value your life enough today to wear a mask.’


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As consistently happens in this Forum, not once did I denigrate the brave men and women of our Armed Forces. What I said is that in a time of crisis, such as Pearl Harbor where nearly every able bodied man signed up willingly to defend our great nation, our current crop of young men would not rise to the challenge. They do not value freedom and liberty enough to make such a sacrifice.

And to answer another question, I am very compassionate, compassionate of the tens of millions of people, like my son, who lost their jobs as a result of this nonsense, compassionate to the tens of thousands of small business owners who lost lifetimes of work and capital, compassionate to the people who have to work harder while the people forced not to work try to get their lives in order. I also have compassion for the elderly and the people with preexisting conditions. They need to take more responsibility for their safety and if they are unable to do so their families need to pitch in. Let the rest of us go about our lives normally. IT'S A BAD FLU for crying out loud, not the Black Plague.

[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by Major

As consistently happens in this Forum, not once did I denigrate the brave men and women of our Armed Forces. What I said is that in a time of crisis, such as Pearl Harbor where nearly every able bodied man signed up willingly to defend our great nation, our current crop of young men would not rise to the challenge. They do not value freedom and liberty enough to make such a sacrifice.

And to answer another question, I am very compassionate, compassionate of the tens of millions of people, like my son, who lost their jobs as a result of this nonsense, compassionate to the tens of thousands of small business owners who lost lifetimes of work and capital, compassionate to the people who have to work harder while the people forced not to work try to get their lives in order. I also have compassion for the elderly and the people with preexisting conditions. They need to take more responsibility for their safety and if they are unable to do so their families need to pitch in. Let the rest of us go about our lives normally. IT'S A BAD FLU for crying out loud, not the Black Plague.

Thanks Major. But that’s not what you “said”, it’s what you meant to say or imply by your post. In using that Pearl Harbor analogy, you may have a point on that mark. As for “the bad flu” comment, if you don’t really believe the reported numbers there is no sense debating flu deaths against those of COVID-19. Enjoy your weekend.


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[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Several pieces of misinformation in here:

Masks and social distancing are not perfect, but have both proven effective in different ways. I think it was Charlie Baker (but maybe it was somebody similar) who said the best thing you can do to stop the virus is to stay home, second best is to wear a mask. ApS has a nice graphic on this above.

The federal government experts (Fauci, Birx, Redfield, etc) have told us the truth--there is a very dangerous virus, and there's no perfect shield

There is no medicine available that has shown the kind of success that should make any of us feel less danger. A few points less on the death toll is nice, but not a game changer.

LOL believe what you will everyone does irrespective of reality.

May want to re-evaluate your assertion of mis-information. This is coming directly from ACTIVE COVID-19 studies and clinical trials being executed across the globe. Not just one or two, we are running over 200 of them now.

What is on TV is not reality or even terribly accurate.

[Mr. V]

Here's a "back door" argument for the anti-maskers to consider:

Wearing masks, maintaining social distancing, minimizing exposure to others, frequent hand washing and use of sanitizer will slow down the spread of the virus.

When slowed down, fewer people will get it and the economy can open sooner.

With fewer people getting sick and the economy on the mend the stock market should stop riding the crazy train it's been on lately, and those (most of us, I bet) who have money invested can bounce back financially.

It boils down to this: if you play by the rules we'll get healthy sooner, both physically and financially.

"Live Free Or Thrive?"

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

LOL believe what you will everyone does irrespective of reality.

May want to re-evaluate your assertion of mis-information. This is coming directly from ACTIVE COVID-19 studies and clinical trials being executed across the globe. Not just one or two, we are running over 200 of them now.

What is on TV is not reality or even terribly accurate.

Everyone believes what they want to believe to support their own agenda. You can easily cherry pick from hundreds of studies to support which ever side of the fence you are on.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

LOL believe what you will everyone does irrespective of reality.

May want to re-evaluate your assertion of mis-information. This is coming directly from ACTIVE COVID-19 studies and clinical trials being executed across the globe. Not just one or two, we are running over 200 of them now.

What is on TV is not reality or even terribly accurate.

When you say "believe what you will everyone does", I'm pretty sure that with respect to COVID, that is happening only on the Republican side. All of the significant Democratic assertions from the past few months have been generally true--this is really dangerous, it can grow super fast, if we shut down growth will slow. Most recently this is evidenced by backtracking on reopenings in both Florida and Texas, with bars now shut down amid booming virus growth--states Major cited just a couple of days ago as right to reopen "full throttle".

I made 3 assertions, all backed by numerous accounts in the press, so hardly a need to cite them again. Be my guest if you'd like to refute, but please be specific, and give us a source if it's not obvious.

[TheRoBoat]

Arguably, the biggest detriment to the economy will be if kids can't go back to school in the fall. The ripple effects of that situation could be debilitating to the economy.

The chances of TX and FL being able to open their schools in the fall just took a massive hit. I would even say that it will be impossible, considering where they are now, to open.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by TheRoBoat

Arguably, the biggest detriment to the economy will be if kids can't go back to school in the fall. The ripple effects of that situation could be debilitating to the economy.

The chances of TX and FL being able to open their schools in the fall just took a massive hit. I would even say that it will be impossible, considering where they are now, to open.

Exactly, my daughter has three kids. 6,4,&2 and she has to return to work. Without school and day care it's the grand parents that have to pick up the slack. At 66 it's exhausting chasing 3 little ones around now.

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[Susie Cougar]

Just a day or two ago, Manatee County, where I live, came up with a school opening plan for August.

Kindergarten through fifth grade would go to school five days per week. Those students had the hardest time adjusting to distance-learning. Grade 6 would go four days a week in school and one day of distance learning at home. Middle school and high school would be a combination of in school and at home learning.
They will be putting plastic shields around each desk and distancing each student. Students will be more spread out throughout the school and could be in the cafeteria or other rooms for teaching. There will be hand washing stations in each room. Students will eat lunch in their class room. Students may have to come in split shifts because of the busing situation.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Just a day or two ago, Manatee County, where I live, came up with a school opening plan for August.

Kindergarten through fifth grade would go to school five days per week. Those students had the hardest time adjusting to distance-learning. Grade 6 would go four days a week in school and one day of distance learning at home. Middle school and high school would be a combination of in school and at home learning.
They will be putting plastic shields around each desk and distancing each student. Students will be more spread out throughout the school and could be in the cafeteria or other rooms for teaching. There will be hand washing stations in each room. Students will eat lunch in their class room. Students may have to come in split shifts because of the busing situation.

Ugh. So sad. (And you probably left out the no games at recess part.) I'm not saying it's a bad plan, just that it's all the difficulty of school with none of the joy. I hope parents, teachers and kids can figure out something to bring some sort of normalcy.

[Biggd]

So I have a very dear friend of mine who lives in Florida and is dying from pancreatic cancer. The doctors have given him 4 months to live. I'm reluctantly flying into Jacksonville on July 6th and spending 2 days with him. I'm going to take every precaution I can but I feel that I need to see him before he passes. I know I will have to quaranteen for two weeks when I return but it's a burden I will gladly endure to see him before he is incapacitated.

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[Winilyme]

Originally Posted by Biggd

So I have a very dear friend of mine who lives in Florida and is dying from pancreatic cancer. The doctors have given him 4 months to live. I'm reluctantly flying into Jacksonville on July 6th and spending 2 days with him. I'm going to take every precaution I can but I feel that I need to see him before he passes. I know I will have to quaranteen for two weeks when I return but it's a burden I will gladly endure to see him before he is incapacitated.

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Biggd - your trip is so worth it and important for both of you. The joy you’ll bring your friend will be with you for the rest of your life. You are more than a friend to him.

[Barney Bear]

What a fine story about real friendship and sacrifice. 🐻

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

When you say "believe what you will everyone does", I'm pretty sure that with respect to COVID, that is happening only on the Republican side. All of the significant Democratic assertions from the past few months have been generally true--this is really dangerous, it can grow super fast, if we shut down growth will slow. Most recently this is evidenced by backtracking on reopenings in both Florida and Texas, with bars now shut down amid booming virus growth--states Major cited just a couple of days ago as right to reopen "full throttle".

I made 3 assertions, all backed by numerous accounts in the press, so hardly a need to cite them again. Be my guest if you'd like to refute, but please be specific, and give us a source if it's not obvious.

If I could make specific current clinical trial and study data public I would, unfortunately I cannot. If you prefer to hear nothing to the contrary of what you believe to be true and continue to be mislead by all means be my guest.

No where in my statements as of late have I injected one bit of politics but if you want to go that route I'm glad you think the Democrats are getting it "mostly right" as here is a perfect example of that:

https://ktvz.com/news/national-world...oregon-county/

Now what's this REALLY about?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

If I could make specific current clinical trial and study data public I would, unfortunately I cannot. If you prefer to hear nothing to the contrary of what you believe to be true and continue to be mislead by all means be my guest.

No where in my statements as of late have I injected one bit of politics but if you want to go that route I'm glad you think the Democrats are getting it "mostly right" as here is a perfect example of that:

https://ktvz.com/news/national-world...oregon-county/

Now what's this REALLY about?

Your claim is that the CDC's recommendations, which are based on the "fact" that the virus spreads through water droplets, are ineffective. What is inaccurate about that?

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[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Your claim is that the CDC's recommendations, which are based on the "fact" that the virus spreads through water droplets, are ineffective. What is inaccurate about that?

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There are several methods of spread, person to person via water droplets is just one means of transmission.

Far as the mask debate that no doubt will rage till the end of time. As our lead doctor has told me as I asked him straight up out of genuine concern for my own family - some of who are at high risk. What does the data thus far show? He told me the science is pretty consistent on this and several ongoing studies continue to trend in this way. He explained it in this way which I think is brilliant for those of us who are not doctors or scientists. You head out to the beach on a bright sunny day with a high UV index. Wearing a mask is as effective as wearing a little bit of sunscreen expecting that will prevent you from getting sunburned. He said that is assuming that everyone was wearing a mask made of the correct material and wearing it correctly. All you have to do is go out in public and see this is not the case.

Is there some benefit? Sure but don't be fooled into thinking this is terribly effective as it is not.

One thing that is undisputed at this point is this thing is highly contagious so exposure to it and spread will not stop and the increase in confirmed cases should be expected but not feared. The fatality rate of this continues to drop and thankfully the acuteness of this as it spreads continues to trend downwards. Unfortunately fear of getting this with the notion it is a death sentence is far more destructive than the virus itself.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

There are several methods of spread, person to person via water droplets is just one means of transmission.

Far as the mask debate that no doubt will rage till the end of time. As our lead doctor has told me as I asked him straight up out of genuine concern for my own family - some of who are at high risk. What does the data thus far show? He told me the science is pretty consistent on this and several ongoing studies continue to trend in this way. He explained it in this way which I think is brilliant for those of us who are not doctors or scientists. You head out to the beach on a bright sunny day with a high UV index. Wearing a mask is as effective as wearing a little bit of sunscreen expecting that will prevent you from getting sunburned. He said that is assuming that everyone was wearing a mask made of the correct material and wearing it correctly. All you have to do is go out in public and see this is not the case.

Is there some benefit? Sure but don't be fooled into thinking this is terribly effective as it is not.

One thing that is undisputed at this point is this thing is highly contagious so exposure to it and spread will not stop and the increase in confirmed cases should be expected but not feared. The fatality rate of this continues to drop and thankfully the acuteness of this as it spreads continues to trend downwards. Unfortunately fear of getting this with the notion it is a death sentence is far more destructive than the virus itself.

I’m curious, what is the lead doctors advice? Does he suggest opening everything up fully, no masks, no 6’ distance? Does he recommend proper mask use to minimize spread and/or limiting crowds? Does he recommend proper n95 mask use to help prevent catching the virus?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

There are several methods of spread, person to person via water droplets is just one means of transmission.

Far as the mask debate that no doubt will rage till the end of time. As our lead doctor has told me as I asked him straight up out of genuine concern for my own family - some of who are at high risk. What does the data thus far show? He told me the science is pretty consistent on this and several ongoing studies continue to trend in this way. He explained it in this way which I think is brilliant for those of us who are not doctors or scientists. You head out to the beach on a bright sunny day with a high UV index. Wearing a mask is as effective as wearing a little bit of sunscreen expecting that will prevent you from getting sunburned. He said that is assuming that everyone was wearing a mask made of the correct material and wearing it correctly. All you have to do is go out in public and see this is not the case.

Is there some benefit? Sure but don't be fooled into thinking this is terribly effective as it is not.

One thing that is undisputed at this point is this thing is highly contagious so exposure to it and spread will not stop and the increase in confirmed cases should be expected but not feared. The fatality rate of this continues to drop and thankfully the acuteness of this as it spreads continues to trend downwards. Unfortunately fear of getting this with the notion it is a death sentence is far more destructive than the virus itself.

I don't understand the analogy. Is the suggestion that the sunlight is the virus—that we are bathed in virus?

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[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

There are several methods of spread, person to person via water droplets is just one means of transmission.

Far as the mask debate that no doubt will rage till the end of time. As our lead doctor has told me as I asked him straight up out of genuine concern for my own family - some of who are at high risk. What does the data thus far show? He told me the science is pretty consistent on this and several ongoing studies continue to trend in this way. He explained it in this way which I think is brilliant for those of us who are not doctors or scientists. You head out to the beach on a bright sunny day with a high UV index. Wearing a mask is as effective as wearing a little bit of sunscreen expecting that will prevent you from getting sunburned. He said that is assuming that everyone was wearing a mask made of the correct material and wearing it correctly. All you have to do is go out in public and see this is not the case.

Is there some benefit? Sure but don't be fooled into thinking this is terribly effective as it is not.

One thing that is undisputed at this point is this thing is highly contagious so exposure to it and spread will not stop and the increase in confirmed cases should be expected but not feared. The fatality rate of this continues to drop and thankfully the acuteness of this as it spreads continues to trend downwards. Unfortunately fear of getting this with the notion it is a death sentence is far more destructive than the virus itself.

I work with a multitude of critical care and emergency physicians from major academic centers (both in the US and abroad) that have a differing opinion than that of the doctor you spoke with. Funny how we all pick and choose what “doctors” we decide to listen to. I guess that’s why everyone should always get a second opinion! I also guess we Americans are far better at spreading it than all those other countries that have successfully curtailed its transmission. They should probably talk to your physician colleague about what exactly they are doing wrong as they really shouldn’t be able to stop it’s spread. Fascinating!


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

What a fine story about real friendship and sacrifice. 🐻

I just got word today that he isn't responding very well to treatments and is in the ICU so we may be too late. Only family can see him.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

If I could make specific current clinical trial and study data public I would, unfortunately I cannot. If you prefer to hear nothing to the contrary of what you believe to be true and continue to be mislead by all means be my guest.

No where in my statements as of late have I injected one bit of politics but if you want to go that route I'm glad you think the Democrats are getting it "mostly right" as here is a perfect example of that:

https://ktvz.com/news/national-world...oregon-county/

Now what's this REALLY about?

Kind of pathetic to compare dumb behavior from an obscure bureaucrat in a tiny 50,000 person county in the middle of nowhere with the incredibly irresponsible gigantic, world-wide impact of the President of the US and his sheep-like Governors of Florida and Texas.

Also silly that you try to cite "secret" information is response to me criticizing another member's post for asserting things that are not true. If his original post is true, he should back it up.

But strangest of all is that even as the data become irrefutable that the President has been completely incompetent on Covid, you still argue in his favor on this issue

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I just got word today that he isn't responding very well to treatments and is in the ICU so we may be too late. Only family can see him.

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I wonder if you could send him a card that the family could read to him.

[webmaster]

After 330 posts it's time to close this thread. Start new threads if needed. Keep the national politics OUT!