Bacteria Rate

[searay220]

My wife while training for the Timberman last weekend was swimming laps at Elicoyia State Park In Gilford.She was told by someone on the beach that the bacteria rate was very high.I was wondering if there is any truth to that.I would think with the amount of water coming into the lake and the amount of water being released at the dam the bacteria rate would be low.Does anybody know? Thanks

[Lin]

Searay, you can check out this site from the NH DES
http://www.des.state.nh.us/Beaches/current.asp

Even though you would think the lake is getting a wash out with heavy rains in and the dam open, it's not the way the bacteria counts work. I have worked for the MA state park system for a number of years and supervised four public beaches. Besides the resident Canada Geese population that exaceberated the bacteria counts, usually after a heavy rainstorm water samples would be high bacteria. What accounts for this is the natural leaching of the water over a vast amount of the watershed. Which means that the water droplets move over a variety of geographical features including septic systems, stormwater drains that collect stuff off the roads and parking lots and in areas that can carry fecal matter of wildlife and pets and livestock into the water either directly or indirectly (called non-point pollution). Good luck to your wife in the Timberman

[ApS]

The Winnipesaukee Basin got a good "flush" with the early rains, but I doubt that the entire lake was affected adversely by high bacteria counts. Ellacoya itself gets closed down on occasion every summer in recent years. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...8808#post18808

All warm-blooded creatures produce E. coli. While ducks/geese/horses get the blame for bacteria (E. coli), it can be determined from water samples through bacteria DNA exactly what the source is.

Since that's a busy tourist beach with lots of people, I can understand why the state wouldn't spend the money for a bacterial-DNA check.

[BBS]

That web site was updated within the last hour and the Advisory for Ellacoya was removed. Good news!

[Winni]

I wanted to ask these questions of the DES, so called today. I was routed to someones voicemail and the call was never returned. Perhaps someone knows the answers.

So, a beach like Ellacoya is closed due to high bacteria counts. Should people in the rest of the lake therefore stay out of the water? If so, does that mean the whole lake is of questionable cleanliness or should we only be concerned for a certain distance from the problem area? If so, what would that distance be?

I am glad to know the explanation for this year's water situation. I have been wondering why, with all the rain, the water has been so full of "stuff"; I mean small bits of stuff just large enough to see with goggles. The whole runoff explanation certainly makes sense. I'm sure the high temps aren't helping either. It feels like a cool hot tub out there lately and we even have an underground stream running into our swimming area!

Then, the weirdness of the Canadian Geese family that has taken to our front yard is enough to make anyone ill. Those birdies have big leavin's! Yuck. Can't keep up with it even with my doggie pooper-scooper. Now that the little ones are bigger, they seem to be frequenting our yard a little less, but this does raise another question.

We have always been very good about not feeding the ducks, so they eventually got the message they aren't welcome here. But, after 18 years, we now have this family of nasty Canadian Geese that think our front yard is home. Why? Is it just that all the rain and high water has confused them?

Would appreciate opinions and answers. Thanks!

[Lin]

Originally Posted by Winni

We have always been very good about not feeding the ducks, so they eventually got the message they aren't welcome here. But, after 18 years, we now have this family of nasty Canadian Geese that think our front yard is home. Why? Is it just that all the rain and high water has confused them?

Would appreciate opinions and answers. Thanks!

Most of the Canada geese that you see nearby are not really wild geese but geese that originally generations ago were released for hunting and didn't really take wing with migrations. Do you have a lawn? Geese and ducks love lawns. Lawns and water make good habitat for them! What usually happens is that once they nest they usually use the same location or pretty much nearby.

Once at one of the parks I managed, my supervisor and I were summing up the projects for the year. We got down to the boat launch and there was MA wildlife with their gun net gathering 72 geese. LOL, my supervisor thought they were taking them away and got all excited thinking we weren't going to have the Canada geese problem that year. What a dissapointment he had when the game wardens banded and released them. We did have to get federal permits that year to work with reducing the flock. You have to be careful with what approaches you take to getting the geese to leave.

As far as your other question about is it the whole lake that is affected by the water quality, usually not the entire lake, but if you lived a few camps up from an affected beach then yes I would think you could be affected till it finally cleared out with wave action or currents.

Forgot to mention that they molt in the summer which means that neither the offspring or the parents can fly for about a month which leaves them on the ground longer. you can also check out this site http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/a_close...ada_geese.html or this one http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAbou...ada_Goose.html

[Lake Lady 6]

Thankfully we have not had a problem with geese (yet). The ducks are another story. The best deterrent I heard of was the Portland CC in Maine. They purchased a dog (Border Collie) and shortly there were no more geese on the course. The dog didn't harm them but the herding instinct & a little training) made him continuously try to "herd" the geese, right to the waterfront. It didn't take long for them to go elsewhere.
A friend visted with his Border Collie at out lakefront home and as soon as any ducks appeared he would run up and down the waterfront giving a bark now and then - poof, no ducks.
This isn't a solution for everyone but if you like dogs - try it. These dogs are expensive and require/need to have a lot of exercise.

[WeirsGuard]

Just a note about bacteria levels at the Weirs. I guarded at the beach for five years in the mid-seventies and can only recall one time the beach was closed for bacteria count. At that time we had three breakwaters reaching out from the beach (Including the stone jetty.) This seemed to affect the flow of water such as to keep it from stagnating. They also kept the sand from being washed away; the beach was only up to the beginning of the stone jetty at that time.

Also; spent a summer on Pitchwood Island using a pipe into the lake for drinking water. I would give the State guys a sample when they checked the beach water. The results always came back as being free of bacteria. In fact one guy said the lake water I supplied was as clean as most municiple water sources. What has happened since? Are levels up all over the Lake due to the increased lake usage?

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by WeirsGuard

They also kept the sand from being washed away;

Hey, that sand washes right over to my beach! No more jetty!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Lake Lady 6

Thankfully we have not had a problem with geese (yet). The ducks are another story. The best deterrent I heard of was the Portland CC in Maine. They purchased a dog (Border Collie) and shortly there were no more geese on the course. The dog didn't harm them but the herding instinct & a little training) made him continuously try to "herd" the geese, right to the waterfront. It didn't take long for them to go elsewhere.
A friend visted with his Border Collie at out lakefront home and as soon as any ducks appeared he would run up and down the waterfront giving a bark now and then - poof, no ducks.
This isn't a solution for everyone but if you like dogs - try it. These dogs are expensive and require/need to have a lot of exercise.

One of the production plants I used to frequent had large green lawns and a cooling pond - just perfect for the Canada geese. They left scat everywhere ! The thing that got rid of them were fake coyotes. The grounds dept set up 4 or 5 of them on the lawn the geese used and they didn't come back. They move them to new positions every few days and I think the head and tails can be rotated to give a new look. I was very surprised such a ruse worked but the geese haven't been back and you can walk w/o fear.

[Winni]

I won't do dogs; too much commitment, but where do you get the fake coyotes?

[Lin]

Originally Posted by Winni

I won't do dogs; too much commitment, but where do you get the fake coyotes?

I've seen them around several parks and golf courses. Some say they really work. Here's a few links for a variety of different types of decoys at different prices, including a $900 robotic coyote. Most seem to be in the $30 to $160 range though.


http://www.wildlifedecoys.com/decoys/coyote_fox.php

http://www.plymouth.ma.nacdnet.org/coyote.html

http://www.bird-x.com/products/coyote.html

[John A. Birdsall]

If you do not want to work with the dogs who will more than likely leave larger droppings than the geese, and you cannot find the phony coyotes, then the only thing left is put pictures of Your MIL on the front yard.

[Lakegeezer]

There must be a do it your self way to test for bacteria. Some sort of additive that you mix into a sample of beach-side water and let it sit for a few hours. If there is a reaction, you have bacteria. Moldy bread as a medium perhaps? A home test would help some people feel more comfortable about getting into the water, knowing that they probably won't get duck itch.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

There must be a do it your self way to test for bacteria. Some sort of additive that you mix into a sample of beach-side water and let it sit for a few hours. If there is a reaction, you have bacteria. Moldy bread as a medium perhaps? A home test would help some people feel more comfortable about getting into the water, knowing that they probably won't get duck itch.

Duch itch is NOT a bacteria.It is a parasite.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

There must be a do it your self way to test for bacteria. Some sort of additive that you mix into a sample of beach-side water and let it sit for a few hours. If there is a reaction, you have bacteria."

A good idea, but how would you know if you've got one billion bacteria in your water sample (or just one—that "growed")?

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

"...A home test would help some people feel more comfortable about getting into the water, knowing that they probably won't get duck itch."

Here's a photo of the duck itch critter which, given an aquarium, clear water, and the right light, could be visible to the naked eye.

Bacteria are 1000-times smaller, and they're everywhere. Bacteria would probably make this Duck Itch critter sick!

[Winni]

Can anyone speak to this portion of my post #5?

"So, a beach like Ellacoya is closed due to high bacteria counts. Should people in the rest of the lake therefore stay out of the water? If so, does that mean the whole lake is of questionable cleanliness or should we only be concerned for a certain distance from the problem area? If so, what would that distance be?"

[Grant]

Originally Posted by Winni

...

Then, the weirdness of the Canadian Geese family that has taken to our front yard is enough to make anyone ill. Those birdies have big leavin's! Yuck. Can't keep up with it even with my doggie pooper-scooper. Now that the little ones are bigger, they seem to be frequenting our yard a little less, but this does raise another question.

We have always been very good about not feeding the ducks, so they eventually got the message they aren't welcome here. But, after 18 years, we now have this family of nasty Canadian Geese that think our front yard is home. Why? Is it just that all the rain and high water has confused them?

Would appreciate opinions and answers. Thanks!

As someone who lives in a GOOSE-INFESTED area when not at the Lake, I can only encourage you to get rid of the geese as soon as possible. A large Canada goose population would be the END of Winnipesaukee as we know it. These birds have destroyed more bodies of recreational water down here than you would believe. No swimming allowed. Perpetual stench. Green "tootsie-rolls" EVERYWHERE. And once they get a foothold in an area and start reproducing, they take over. They spend the winter down here & aren't even migratory. They've taken over office complexes, golf courses, parks, lakes, ponds, and have destroyed them all. Unfortunately, they are also protected, which is absurd.

I was really disturbed to hear Canada goose calls this spring up at the Lake. I'd never heard them there before, but I could hear a good number of them off in the distance. If they take up residence on your property, do the LAKE a favor, and chase them away. Most of the lakefront terrain is not "goose friendly" (rocks, trees, little grass), so there's really not a lot of space for them on land. I'd encourage NHF&G to start a Canada goose season -- with no limit.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Winni

Can anyone speak to this portion of my post #5?

Me and my 3 kids (1 with 4 legs and a tail) have swam every day since bike week on our beach not a ¼ mile from the big beach at the Weirs without any adverse effects, so my guess is most of the lake is ok. We also have a pretty good current through our area and keep the duckies away by using the tennis ball and 4 legged kid trick.

I will let everyone know if I grow a 4th arm though.

[SIKSUKR]

I've always thought that all the swimming adviseries at various beaches were probably an over reaction.I know they have bacteria levels that are set by some agency and when that level is reached,an advisory is issued.I don't think I've ever heard anyone becoming sick because they were swimming in these areas.You would probably have to drink 40 gallons of water before it had an effect.I do understand that small children and the elderly in poor health could be at more risk but I still think these warnings are overkill.

[Winni]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

I will let everyone know if I grow a 4th arm though.

Hey more arms to throw tennis balls and ice cubes at the invasive creatures!!!

[gtxrider]

New Jersey seems to have trouble with geese fouling the water, parks, golf courses..... Oh and no you can't hunt them.

We had a man come to our building with a dog to remove the geese. The name of his outfit was "Goose Busters". Really! We would eat lunch and watch the dog chase the big birds around the lawns. It worked until budget cuts came and the geese returned.

Watch your step!

[Lin]

While I am not familiar with some of these products, some appear to be new on the market and I'm not sure of how accurate they would be; I did find sites that markets DIYS kits, but many parameters could cause you to get false readings (#1 would be even if you didn't wash your hands thoroughly before you tested the water). So I'm not endorsing these products but since the question was asked and it is currently being asked at our own association beach, I had the oppurtunity to do some research on it. You have to be careful in purchasing of test kits because if it's not just strips you may get a kit that has a hazardous reagent, so thoroughly check out what type of kit you want and/or really need and know ahead of time that a do it yourself kit is not like having a sample taken to the lab. Parameters such as time of day test was taken, outside temperature, weather, how long the sample sits around all can lead to either a good test or bad test going wrong or right.

http://www.kidswatersafe.com/Home/ta...2/Default.aspx
http://prolakemgmt.com/HTML/WQTesting.htm
http://www.simpltek.com
http://www.lamotte.com/pages/edu/3-0034.html

I also found these informative sites that will answer a lot of the questions asked here.
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/eap/b...eria_used.html
http://healthvermont.gov/enviro/water/recwater.aspx
http://www.epa.gov/owow/monitoring/volunteer/issues.htm
http://www.ecan.govt.nz/Our+Environm...Q/glossary.htm

and don't overlook New Hampshire's informative site on beaches and advisories
http://www.des.state.nh.us/Beaches/current.asp

[SteveA]

hey all Lots of golf courses and public parks have had good results with products like these:

http://www2.yardiac.com/long.asp?tgs...d=&item_id=664

There are several companies that make this sort of product. Treated grass becomes bad tasting for the geese, so they leave.

SteveA