Boater Safety Training Effectiveness?

[Silver Duck]

Ir occurred to me that we're just about at the end of the phase-in period for the boater safety education requirement; by now the vast majority of boat operators should have taken a safety course.

I'm curious how effective the forum folks think that this training requirement has been so far!

Granted that the requirement is never going to go away; nor would I want it to.

But, I must confess that I'm a bit disappointed in the results at this point. My perception is that there has been little improvement in the percentage of operators who observe the stand-on boat vs. give-way boat rules, and that the percentage of operators who ignore the 150 ft. safe passage rule has actually increased in the last season or two.

What say the rest of you?

Silver Duck

[skprbob]

Regretfully, I'm inclined to agree. Although I've had a commercial license for a long time, I signed up for the course in Wolfeboro and tried to stay incognito. The instructor was very good and addressed all of the important issues in a clear and concise way. I think the program had three major shortcomings: one was the horrible idea of allowing the test to be taken online, the second was not including a "road test" as is done for motor vehicle licenses. The road test may be impractical for a variety of reasons, but it at least would have revealed basic competence. The third was the all-important change in attitude. Until Capt. Bonehead's attitude changes, we'll still have the idiocy with us.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

I was disappointed when they allowed some to take the test online. I think doing the face time with the instructor was very valuable.

I have noticed that the safety of the boaters at the beginning and end of the season seems to be a lot better than the average in the middle. It would be interesting to know what percentage of boaters stopped by the MP in July actually had the certificate?

The other thing that seems missing is a road test like you do with a car or motorcycle. What some folks consider 150 feet is quite remarkable.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Boating safety education is quite important and certainly makes sense. I think that the implementation of the system in NH is not working as they intended. It was well intentioned but I think the execution is a bit messed up. Yes there are more boaters aware of the rules due to boater ed requirements but there are still many that are clueless.

Whether or not you are/were in favor of the NH on-line safety test the way it is handled in NH today almost defeats the purpose of the requirement, IMHO.

A NH Boater Education Certificate at least exposed you to some of the NH specific rules. On-line or in a classroom you would discover the 150 foot rule and the system of navigation aids and a few other NH specific items - but ONLY with a NH specific course and test.

Today the State of NH does not allow for a NH State specific on-line test for the safety certificate. But NH DOES accept state issued certificates from 41 OTHER STATES that do NOT cover NH specific rules. How can that possibly be safer than allowing NH State issued on-line certificates? In this instance, the State of NH made it easier to get non-NH on-line accreditation from ANOTHER State's course and test without any knowledge of NH specific boating rules. This is better?

Now how do visitors or other boaters even know that a safety certificate is required? Only a few launch ramps have signage or the NH Marine Patrol digest of NH Boating Laws and info booklet. No signage at major points of entry to the State. How do people know that there are rules? My slip neighbors are aware of the rules at the YC, but at the motel docks where transients launch that's a different story. Renters, that's another story.

As already mentioned, a safe boating certificate does not mean one can pilot a boat well - does it?

And the certificate neglects what I think is a major problem. You can be almost blind and drive a boat with a safe boating certificate. Good vision is not a prerequisite for the certificate. Eye sight is not even tested. Which do you think is a bigger threat. A sight impaired boater approaching you at 45 mph or a captain with perfect vision approaching your direction at 55+ mph (both more than 150' away from you of course).

Boater Education is a great idea. I'm not sure that we (NH) found the best way to educate boaters. That said, I'm not sure I have any better ideas how to proceed from here.

[islandAl]

I agree, that I have not seen the improvement expected. Still lots of violations of the most basic 150 foot rule.

Needed, UNIVERSAL rules similar to auto laws. Minor differences but all basically similar.
For all motor vehicles there should be
1. Testing of driving a vehicle (snowmobile, boat or ATV)
2. proctored testing
3. Re-license every 5 years
4. All state reciprocity, again similar to auto.
5. Provisions for weekend tests (to allow for visitors from non-snow states to rent snowmobiles for example)

[jrc]

I have found that a lot more people know the rules. I ask people all the time " Why the h@$$ are you marking such a big wake so close to my boat" they always say that they were 150 ft away or they were not making a wake. Lot's of people tell me their boat is too small to make a wake.

It's true, the fundamental concept has been taught to a bunch of people but the practical application isn't there yet.

I find the same thing with the crossing rules. People still cross in front of me from port. They know the rules they just don't follow them.

Maybe some practical test judge distances or speed would work, or maybe some negative feedback from the Marine Patrol.

Try it yourself, in a calm situation walk down a dock and ask the operator some rule, I bet most will know them and have learned them from the test. The class and test is just part of the solution. An automobile drivers license would be useless unless the rules where enforced.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

I have an idea, but I am told it is not practical. Here goes.... Make Boating just like driving a car. It is a privilege, not a right. Phase this in, Make Children take a boating safety classroom course, and then when they are old enough to operate a boat over 25hp, make them take a "road test", or rather a practical boating test. We all agree the present test doesn't make you a better boat handler.

[upthesaukee]

So much is said about making boat licensing just like a car. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but just because someone has taken a test to drive a car doesn't make them a good driver.

We all see the Capt. Boneheads on the lake and wonder how they ever got away from the dock. Gee, too bad they didn't have a drivers test like they would in a car. Well, they probably drive their car the same way.

There are just as many boneheads out there behind the wheel of a four wheeler. On land and on the water, the only thing that may help change the attitudes and bad habits will be better and more stringent enforcement.

All that can be hoped is that through boater education, more people have been helped by it than not! IMHO.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

So much is said about making boat licensing just like a car. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but just because someone has taken a test to drive a car doesn't make them a good driver.

We all see the Capt. Boneheads on the lake and wonder how they ever got away from the dock. Gee, too bad they didn't have a drivers test like they would in a car. Well, they probably drive their car the same way.

There are just as many boneheads out there behind the wheel of a four wheeler. On land and on the water, the only thing that may help change the attitudes and bad habits will be better and more stringent enforcement.

All that can be hoped is that through boater education, more people have been helped by it than not! IMHO.

Upthesaukee, I have to agree with you. No matter what the boneheads are going to be there. How much the education has help I think that story really won't be told for years. Many of us took the test online because we have been around boating for years and in my mind was a good thing, it relieved stress on the class room course. How many have really thought about how many course and test would have had to been offered in order for everyone to get certified by an instructor. It would have been a mess and we would have been complaining about that. Instead the state took the approach they did, and have now given everyone a fair chance to get the certificate before tightening the regulations. In my mind they did the right thing. I believe in the future we will see on the water tests for the younger boaters... but remember to accomplish this means the need for more man power, more expense and therefore higher taxes and fees.... sorry but it is the truth. And if they had phased that all in, at the begining the expense would have been unbelievable.

Lets all remember something it is the bad Guys that make it hard on all of us. Sure we all get angry at the Boneheads out there, and there are plenty of them. But just like with the speed limit why should the responsible people pay for the mistakes of the idiots. Ask your selves this question although some of us think it would be a good idea for everyone to have taken a proctored exam, and an on the water test, how would we feel if due to scheduling and testing availability we missed all or part of a boating seating. I do believe we will get there in the future we just have to give it time..... the current automobile diver liscense exam procedures didn't happen over night. Heck my Dad had a Maine diver liscense simply because an already licensed driver wrote a note to the state and said he was ready..... These things happen in phases.... and if they don't start by doing some grandfather which is what is happening now..... things get out of hand.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

"I'm curious how effective the forum folks think that this training requirement has been so far!...the percentage of operators who ignore the 150 ft. safe passage rule has actually increased in the last season or two..."

This year, you advised the forum that you had joined the boaters who cruise at 1200-1500 RPMs. One notices more violations of personal space at those speeds, with a dose of Wikipedia's "availability heuristic". (Your choice of speed will affect what you see).

While I basically agree that infractions are on the increase, the number of Winnipesaukee boaters is declining as well—perhaps due to the combined nuisances of licensing, oversized wakes, other perceived boating hazards, and gas prices.

Here are examples of what I saw this year:

1) I have the misfortune of having a hotel-style McMansion being built nearby (the one with the new, paired 60-foot docks next to their new 50-foot dock).

Boaters stopped to gawk at 75-feet from our shoreline—then continued their shoreline drive by accelerating to twice headway speed and continuing at the same 75-foot distance!

2) I also had the misfortune to be sailing near a shore where a ski boat made an exaggerated wake for the towing of his "wakesurfer".

After his fourth circumnavigation of my boat in just five minutes, I had to signal my displeasure; fortunately, one of the six on board saw the signal mirror and the boat went elsewhere. (But I did have to signal him. )

3) Off my shore, an unmarked NHMP PWC stopped a lone driver who was towing seven (7) tubers.

The MP stayed only seconds—never asked for certification—and zoomed off.


I'm afraid that until...

1) The test becomes enough of a challenge (flunk a few),

2) The test becomes serious nationally (and the fee increased markedly),

3) Enforcement gets serious (and increases penalties),

...that the lack of empathy for fellow boaters will continue—despite the best efforts to legislate common sense.

Oh yes...Too many boaters are unfamiliar with New Hampshire-only rules. Visitors need to pick up one of NHRBA's free cushions ("a throwable device") with our unique NH rules printed on it.

[tis]

I, too, agree. I don't think it has made much difference. I don't think taking a "road" (water?) test would help either. I think the only thing that helps is being stopped for a violation. Then those who don't know or remember a rule will remember it. And as you all said, those who are going to break the laws will anyway.

[Dave R]

I think there have been steady impovements, especially in crossing situations, except in busy areas like near Weirs Beach. I imagine boating there could be pretty stressful in a smallish boat with a newbie at the helm and some Capt. Boneheads in big boats don't seem to care about that.

I think there will always be 150 foot boat-to-boat violations, but those typically aren't at all dangerous (really, 50 feet is PLENTY of room if there's no collision course), and therefore, aren't at all that bothersome to me.

[KonaChick]

Until infractions are tied to your driving license things won't change much I'm afraid. People just do not take it seriously and it's worth the risk of having to pay a nominal fine if you get caught. Most people choose to drive a boat within the confines of the law and with respect for other boaters, the rest could just care less. The money they pay for the boating ticket isn't a deterrent. Having your boaters license taken away for a certain period of time (like the drivers license point system) and high fines ALONG with boater education will work much better IMO.

[Kamper]

I've noticed a big difference in PWC operators. Perhaps because there was a big push to ticket them a few years back. I've experienced far fewer people initiating thrill maneuvers close enough to my bow that I have to take evasive action.

Less so for regular boaters. Hardly any change for no-wake situations for any type of vessel.

[gtxrider]

I would like to know how many boat/pwc operators have taken the course on line or otherwise? Maybe it should be required the certificate be visable just like our fishing license here in NJ.

In my experience the 150' rule is the most broken rule.

[NavGirl316]

What is the exact penalty for these people who are pulled over by the MP and don't have a certificate? Anything other than a fine?

[jrc]

270-D:11 Possession Required; Penalty. –
...

IV. Any person who violates this section shall be guilty of a violation punishable by a fine of $50 for a first offense and $250 for any subsequent offense.

[tis]

I believe when you are pulled over for certain violations, you must take the course again. That was from a discussion with a MP a couple of years ago, so not sure if all came to be.

[John A. Birdsall]

Tis said something to the effect of having to take the coarse over and perhaps get relicensed for certain infratures.

I don't think so, they do not do that for motor vechiles why would they do that for boaters. I think that they will suspend your license to drive a boat for a period of time such as the guy who killed someone. But that is a suspension.

I think that boaters education is great, and those that enjoy both boating and boating safety will respect that. I think that those capt boneheads will do what they want when they want and where they want with no regards to you or me. And suspend their right to drive and they could care less about that also.

Boating will be safe on the lake starting in January for about four months.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

Tis said something to the effect of having to take the coarse over and perhaps get relicensed for certain infratures.
{snip}

I don't know if I noticed any more violations this years, I'd say a bit less perhaps. I see the problem is that a 1 time only test allows people to "bone up" for the test and then flush away any knowledge gained soon thereafter. Make the test a recurring one and it's possible that even Capt B might retain some of the more important points.

More enforcement might help but I'd be interested in seeing the stats on who's stopped for what and how many times they've been stopped before.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

... I think that they will suspend your license to drive a boat for a period of time ... And suspend their right to drive and they could care less about that also. ...

IF you get DWI in a car the revocation terminology is "motor vehicle" so you cant operate a boat either. There was a push a while back to make BWI impact your highway privileges too but it went nowhere. I think some states have interpreted their DWI sanctions as being the same for land or water. I expect that will be looked at again here, if the Safety Certificate program doesnt achieve aprciable results.

IMO. That would be easier to implement than a leisure boat license program.

[Silver Duck]

APS

You're probably correct that I notice close passages more at 1200 - 1500 RPM than I would at my cruising speed 3500 RPM; also, more boats are passing us when operating at low speed. Another factor is that my wake at 7 MPH provides less inducement to Cap't. Bonehead to keep his distance than it does at 35 MPH.

However, the fact remains that, while I was running at hull speed, the Cap't. and a whole lot of his boneheaded relatives chose to play "strafe the old farkle in the slow moving cruiser" at distances that even the Cap't. couldn't mistake for 150 ft. (No real harm done as long as the other boat physically misses me, but somewhat annoying!)

There also seems to be an almost universal asumption that a slow moving boat is automatically the "give-way boat" in a crossing situation. (Which I typically do anyway, just out of courtesy.)

Getting back to the original topic, does anybody know whether the curriculum is different in the classroom instruction from what it was in the internet course? If so, is there more emphasis on actual safety matters in the classroom instruction?

Silver Duck