Skydive Laconia?

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by Winnicandle

I can assure you that I am far more concerned with the weekend warriors, sightseers, and photographers circling their Cessnas around the local area with their heads in their asses

FYI Winnicandle:

1. My license says "Airline Transport Pilot, MEL"- same as yours. (Of course it also says "Commercial Pilot, Rotorcraft" and a few other things yours probably doesn't.)

2. The $250,000 Garmin G-1000 equipped aircraft we fly has the same aural traffic advisory and glass panel your kerosene burner has (I hope).

3. I do not shoot and fly. My safety pilot flys and monitors terrain and traffic while I shoot.

Our biggest worry is the jet jocks bombing around at high speeds, flying right hand traffic patterns (instead of the proscribed left hand one), who seem to think they own the sky.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by flyguy

FYI Winnicandle:

1. My license says "Airline Transport Pilot, MEL"- same as yours. (Of course it also says "Commercial Pilot, Rotorcraft" and a few other things yours probably doesn't.)

2. The $250,000 Garmin G-1000 equipped aircraft we fly has the same aural traffic advisory and glass panel your kerosene burner has (I hope).

3. I do not shoot and fly. My safety pilot flys and monitors terrain and traffic while I shoot.

Our biggest worry is the jet jocks bombing around at high speeds, flying right hand traffic patterns (instead of the proscribed left hand one), who seem to think they own the sky.

Geeeeeez! Does this sound familar or what!!?? If you go faster than me, you are not welcome.

[Winnicandle]

Bombing around at high speeds?? what???

review your regs, and show me the one that says I have to enter on any kind of pattern. We prefer not to as we like to avoid the weekend warriors. We like prescribed Instrument approaches.

Believe me pops, we watch the cessna photo shooters VERY closely on the TCAS. You have every right to be there as we do (remember America?) but again we watch ya close...rest assured. We know you both have your head pasted to the ground for your target and are doing circles with the window open and cant hear anything that the rest of the world is doing. I have been on plenty of photo shoots!

An ATP?? oh come on now!...1500hrs in a cessna and a 5th grade level exam is all it takes, not very impressive. And if we HAVE to play your "whip it out and measure" game...lets do it...CFI, CFII, MEI, AGI, IGI, SE ATP, Rotorcraft, ASES, Designated Examiner, and 9 Type Ratings.

Also not impressed with the Garmin - hell my car has a garmin...my plane, it has EASy and Planeview.

latest ride:



Now come on - Lets all support some local business, especially one that seems like it will be well run.

Be safe out there!!!!

[alsadad]

Let's see. Does the environment look blue, at least much of the time? Does it contain large "vehicles" and small ones? Are some fast, some slow, some louder than others? Do some leave more turbulence in their wake? Are there experienced, careful and courteous operators, as well as boneheads? Do the people with opposing viewpoints seem unlikely to be swayed by opposing arguments? Cool. We can debate that!

[flyguy]

Very cool- I am very impressed with the pretty picture.

You missed the point here- I am NOT a 1500 hr private pilot, we DO have similar traffic systems, and while my head may be "pasted to the ground", that of my safety pilot is not. We area as aware of you as you are of us. It's called "see and be seen".

We are not weekend warriors flying around with our "heads up our asses", as you put it.

On the other hand, I would never presume to tell everyone at Logan that I have a "federally guaranteed right" to circle over the center of the airport & take photos 10 times a day, while they all put their operations on hold.

[TheNoonans]

"On the other hand, I would never presume to tell everyone at Logan that I have a "federally guaranteed right" to circle over the center of the airport & take photos 10 times a day, while they all put their operations on hold."

Good morning Mr. Hemmel, nice to have you back again. Still waiting for your answer, when the FAA says LCI can safely sustain skydiving will you accept their expert opinion, or will presume to reject it and state that you know better because your a local pilot?

To be fair, I don't expect you to answer, and the reality is that your opinion carries little consequence, it's the LAA making the decision. Now.....if a member of the LAA were to share your position, if they were to reject the findings of the FAA and issue a contradictory decision........suffice to say, I have done my due diligence on the subject and know (from the FAA' s perspective) where that will end. All I will say is that I would not want to be the one that has to justify to the FAA why their decision was thrown out.

Anyone that has turned on a television in the last year has seen Congress hold the auto industry, the financial industry and the mortgage industry entirely accountable for living up to the standards and responsibiities of accepting federal money. Do you think the FAA will hold the LAA to the same standards? I do. I am 100% sure of it. The federal government doesn't have a sense of humor about things like this, nor should they. I believe the figure stated last night was $600,000+ of federal money allocated for last nights projects at LCI.

Going back to your statement of smoke and mirrors, if the FAA, in it's infinite wisdom, stated that you could safely circle Logan, I would say more power to you, go do it. It's legal and it's approved by the FAA. I wouldn't try to interject my own personal opinions on aerial photography safety because I am not an aerial photography safety expert. That's the difference between us, I respect the established process of the FAA.

For what it's worth though, your mocking comment isn't entirely accurate, on those busy Saturday and Sunday days you keep talking about (the ones that we have same rights and access to the sky as you), we may fly more like 15-20 loads a day. If we totally under estimated demand, then we may even bring in a second airplane and as one is climbing, have the other descending, or better a larger one, like a Cessna Grand Caravan that drops 17 skydivers at a time. All perfectly legal and "protected" by the FAA. As for the inconvenience you will be forced to endure, if your a competent pilot, then you will not be inconvenienced at all.

But that is besides the point really. You can scour the FARs all like, you won't find a single line item referring to "inconveniencing" other aircraft. We won't complain when we have to spin and wait for you to taxi and take off, and the FAA expects (demands really) the same courtesy from you in return. Don't believe me, then draft a letter of complaint to the Portland FSDO and cite in your complaint that you are being inconvenienced. See what you get in return as a response..........

We have already done our due diligence, we know the answer, write them and find out for yourself.

To the rest of the community that is interested in the facts, supporting a free economy and pursuing freedoms, we continue to appreciate your support. For all the pilots out there, from the beginning, we have stated that we want to work with you, not against you. We are 100% willing to listen to whatever concerns any pilot may have and work with you to reach a mutually agreed solution. We will even host "Pilot Night" once a month or so, so that local pilots can come down and talk to us and our pilots and learn everything there is to know about how our flights are planned and made. We want you all to have all the information we have, so we can all work and ultimately fly, together.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

Editted to add: Does anyone find it even mildly ironic that the same guy (Mr. Hemmel) that points out above that Mr. Hayes is on a 72 acre industrial airpark, so you can't compare Zephyrhills and Laconia, yet he makes a subsequent statement comparing circling Laconia to um.......circling LOGAN INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT? Laconia may be a busy airport Mr. Hemmel, but I think Logan may be in a class all it's own sir. Nice analogy though..........

[granitebox]

Your patience throughout this process has been amazing.

Clearly you'll run a first class, safe operation that will be a true benefit to the lakes region. It seems that the process is designed to just wear out anyone who doesn't have a high degree of motivation to get approval.

Its unfortunate a bit more common sense can't be inserted in the approval but you've clearly shown if they want you to jump through hoops, you'll simply ask "how many" and drive on.

Good luck to you, I'm certain you'll do well.

[TheNoonans]

Thank you Granitebox,

It's been a long year, but we have the patience, the resources and the time to see this through. We won't be going anywhere until this is resolved, even if it takes us to FAA headquarters in Washington, D.C. (where our 33,000 group member funded airport access defense fund and lobbyists are waiting).

What I think was taken for granted from the beginning by certain people involved with this process is how thorough our research was before this all started. When we walked in the terminal door August 2008, we had already "point/counter pointed" every possible scenario that could arise and had a solution. Anyone familiar with Sun Tzu and The Art of War, is familiar with the idea that every conflict is decided before it begins. A lesser known ,yet equally powerful verse is:

"So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself,
you can win a thousand battles without a single loss."

Over the last ten years, we have seen every "trick" so to speak that an airport sponsor can pull to try and circumvent their federal funding obligations, always to the same result. The parallel here is that the LAA knows nothing about us really, including our resolve, and as evidenced by the last year, has had a difficult time "knowing themselves" in terms of their role and obligation in this process.

A last Sun Tzu quote that I think is fitting to share is:

"Never will those who wage war tire of deception".

Anyone that has read Mr. Hemmel's posts would have a hard time disagreeing with that statement, he certainly hasn't tired of it. Personally I don't like the term "war" as from our perspective, this is simply a cordial exchange of ideas between two parties striving to reach a resolution. But I'd be lying if I said the word "war" didn't pop up from people in the community when describing how the LAA feels about us and our proposal. Their stance against us has been described as their "war" against us by multiple people in the community. Hence the fitting nature of Sun Tzu I think.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[flyguy]

Originally Posted by TheNoonans

"...when the FAA says LCI can safely sustain skydiving will you accept their expert opinion, or will presume to reject it and state that you know better because your a local pilot?

I trust the judgement of the FAA at least as much as I trust the judgement of the SEC, FDA, IRS, and certain other government agencies.

"...yet he makes a subsequent statement comparing circling Laconia to um.......circling LOGAN INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT?

Huh??? Care to quote the exact sentence where this direct comparison was made?

Once more, Tom, you missed the point. Even though you can (or have a "federally guaranteed right" to do so) doesn't mean you should.

But I'd be lying if I said the word "war" didn't pop up from people in the community when describing how the LAA feels about us and our proposal. Their stance against us has been described as their "war" against us by multiple people in the community.

I have yet to hear anyone in the aviation community use that word, but I'm sure you have a purpose for introducing it into this discussion. However it does beg the question:"Why would you go where you are not wanted?"

Oops- I forgot. The Money. The same reason you state that you cannot accept the alternative that would keep everyone happy- landing off field.

Speaking of smoke and mirrors- I find the amount of time a and effort Tom expends to raise and encourage local public support astounding. On one hand he asks people to show up at meetings, write letters, etc., while on the other hand he insists (correctly) that our opinions do not matter. It is strictly a safety issue- economics and/or public opinion are not relevant. Remember that before you waste your time.

[Happy Gourmand]

OK you guys, I think it's time to set out some plastic chairs and a table on my lawn and invite the both of you over for beer. What brands should I stock?

[sa meredith]

Yeah, I'll second that.
How could this thread possibly have turned ugly?
Seriously.

[TheNoonans]

Hi Phantom Gourmand and sa-meredith,

This hasn't turned ugly for us. We remain emotionally detached, this is just a business negotiation. We bear no ill will towards Mr. Hemmel, and we certainly don't take what he is saying or doing personally. He is doing what he believes he has to do. We still wish him well. As do we continue to wish every member of the LAA well in their efforts to understand the federal funding grant assurances that they are obligated to abide by. From the beginning we have always said that we recognized their would be some negative reactions to our proposal. Any time something new and different comes around, it is bound to create a stir as the potential for a change in the status quo comes into view. The irony is that we will have such a minimal impact on the airport that a year from now people will look back on this all and say "what was all the fuss over?".

Mary and I remain available to anyone and everyone that has a question or concern about our proposal. We continue to arrive early to the meetings and stay late, yet we haven't been approached by anyone with any concerns.

I would also be happy to have lunch with Mr. Hemmel at the Lobster Pound and listen to every one of his concerns. I've offered that before and am offering it again. Any time we are there, we will make time to meet with him. He hasn't taken us up on our offer.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[dpg]

I agree this thread is getting quite old. Maybe it just should be locked till there's an answer,then the final word can be posted.

[robertk]

First, I applaud anyone who has the gumption to launch a new business. Second, I think skydiving is cool, although I've never done it. Third, I wish the Noonan's all the best. Now, for my question. When I'm entering the pattern (or in it), how do I know that a skydiver has not been blown off course directly into my flight path? Since I fly a low wing, there's a chance I could see them I suppose, but I don't really know how visible they are. By the way, somewhere in this thread I saw someone mention that people fly the pattern mostly on the south side of the airport, or something to that effect. I don't know what was meant by that, but I spend plenty of time on the other side of the field while in the pattern (especially when entering the pattern from the north, or landing on runway 8). Anyway, back to my question — does it often happen that skydivers get blown off course? Are you able to make sure you stay toward the center of the field? How do I keep track of where skydivers are, since they're not communicating after jumping, right? Or, can you communicate after you're out of the plane? Do you have the ability to see me from above and steer clear? As I said, I'm all for your business, although I'll admit it does make me just a tad nervous. Given the fact that this is done all over the country I'm guessing there are reasonable answers to my questions. Good luck with your business.

[trfour]

I don't think that it will be closed before fruition, no'r should it be!

[twoplustwo]

I would just like to say that Tom Noonan has been nothing but a class act in this thread. You won't see my arse jumping out of any airplanes, but I'll meet you and Mary at The Pound and buy you a beer, Tom.

[TheNoonans]

Greetings to all,

I just wanted to check in with everyone and let you know that I will be attending the September LAA meeting tomorrow night at the Main Terminal Building at 5:30pm.

As always, if anyone is interested in asking questions or presenting any concerns, I will be there a half an hour early and will stay after the meeting as well if anyone has any questions after the meeting. Followed shortly there after by having dinner at the Lobster Pound. Please feel free to stop by there if you can't make the meeting.

Regarding the status of things: the Portland FSDO finished their assessment and found no reason that skydiving could not occur at the airport. Typically, in this scenario, when the FSDO declares the airport suitable for skydiving, skydiving is approved and commences. In this case however, the airport sponsor has subsequently requested that the ADO send in specialists to review, among other things, the IFR electronics. While delaying things further, this is simply one final item to wait for. This analysis is in process and we have been told that the FAA wants to get this done as soon as possible. That's where things stand at the moment.

Blue skies to all and to all a good flight,

Tom

[Pineedles]

You sir, are a class act! I know it's good marketing to keep your message in front of potential customers, but I have never seen such an "open kimono" approach to one's business by inviting everyone to all meetings that you have no control over, and anything could happen.

BTW, my compliments to your wife. I didn't mean to leave her out of my compliments.

[Resident 2B]

Tom,

Although I was opposed to your sky diving proposal in the past, with all the studies that have been completed with results supporting your application, I have completely changed my opinion.

I now fully support this proposal. Although I will never jump out of a perfectly good airplane, I respect the rights of those that want to do this, as long as it is safe. Based on the studies and opinions of the experts, this is safe. Therefore, I am now a supporter of your proposal.

As others have pointed out, you are a class act and I believe you and your operation will bring value to our area.

Good luck and best wishes for success!

R2B

[Happy Gourmand]

Did he just invite all of us to the LP for dinner? What a guy!! What time?
Seriously, best of luck to you with your new venture. Though I don't plan to be a customer, I'm sure you will thrive at this location especially in the summer months. Kudos to you for your openness and willingness to keep us all informed and respond to even some of your more hardened opponents. I hope that they too will someday realize that the airspace is open for all to enjoy.
Best of Luck to you!

[SIKSUKR]

Thanks Tom,I'll have the twin lobster.