Windmills along the lake

[SAMIAM]

I read a story this month....National Geographic or Smithsonian,not sure which one,that indicated that 100's of thousands of birds were being killed by the windmills out west.Mostly golden eagles,hawks and owls.For some reason they are mostly raptors.I'm puzzled why people who profess to care about the enviroment would want a windmill anywhere near them.
As I recall,Exxon got fined millons of $$ for accidentally killing 80 migrating birds.The have stopped road and bridge projects for a nesting eagle,osprey or owl.There is a federal law that calls for huge fines for causing the death...or even harrassing or interferring with migrating birds.
Hey,I'm with ya' on solar,wave energy, ethanol,nuclear....you name it,but if you want windmills ,say goodbye to your little birdies.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

4) A view easement? snip

To answer your question, source is sited below.

Easements may be specifically described by boundaries or by its purpose. There is also a "negative easement" such as a prohibition against building a structure which blocks a view. Title reports and title abstracts will usually describe all existing easements upon a parcel of real property. The location, maintenance, and uses of the easement are defined by the agreement, use, or instrument creating the easement. In some cases, the owner of the servient property charges the easement holder a maintenance fee, however, maintenance may be subject to any type of agreement between the parties involved. Easements may be renegotiated under contract law principles. All claims involving claims on land need to be carefully drafted.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/r/real-estate-easements/

We have run into this issue with projects before that limit the height of projects to protect someones view.

[Dr. Green]

Originally Posted by twoplustwo

...but solar panels are far too cost prohibitive, still.

Originally Posted by jmen24

Electric solar panels that are large enough to power your home and hopefully backfeed the grid are super expensive including all the components to go with them.

I don't know where you are getting the idea that solar is not cost-competitive now. Sure, over 5 years it isn't cost-competitive, but systems are guaranteed for 25 years, and should last 40 years easily. At 25 years, with Federal and State rebates (which equal up to 1/2 the price of purchase and installation), solar is cheaper than the power company (assuming you have a full solar exposure). If the cost of electricity keeps increasing at the rate it has increased the last 10 years (approximately doubling) I would expect solar to have closer to a 15 year payback than the closer to 25 it is if you assume the cost of electricity will not increase at all in the next 25 years (the rate we use for cost comparisons).

See: http://www.sustainabilitynh.com/?post_id=40

[travaler18]

to be completly green we must shed our clothes move into caves and eat only what we scavange

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by travaler18

to be completly green we must shed our clothes move into caves and eat only what we scavange

Sure will be cold on the snowmobile.

[IslandRadio]

Interesting topic! Personally, I believe solar (photovoltaic cells) would be a better solution, at least for the individual.

With wind power, you're dealing with a large, mechanical device - and machanical devices wear out and require regular maintenance and repair. If they are not properly maintained, you have a large eyesore that will be very expensive to remove.

Contrast that with photovoltaic - with no moving mechanical parts (save some relays), no noise, and very little maintenance. Of course the downside of current photovoltaic systems is energy storage - batteries.

There is a large photovoltaic installation in my town at a farm. Apparently, the system generates sufficient electricy to power everything the farmer's got going, and return a small monthly payment from Unitil. But, he has a perfect, unobstructed Southern exposure and a large barn roof to hold the panels.

I looked at a place on Diamond Island (no electricity there), and a good solar installation would have been the most practical way to provide usable and constant electric power.

With constant improvements in battery technology, and increasing conversion efficiencies, it just seems that solar might be a better solution....

Just my opinion

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by IslandRadio

Interesting topic! Personally, I believe solar (photovoltaic cells) would be a better solution, at least for the individual.

Solar is a bit tricky in this area. I've been playing with some solar equipment/systems (importing panels direct from China. At under $5/watt you can start to consider it in places you might not have thought of traditionally), our sun exposure in New England isn't that great...especially in the winter months.

To get the best yield from your panels they need to be tilted toward the sun, and if you're not installing them on a roof each row needs to be spaced back to eliminate shadows from the row in front.

The best solution in this area is probably a solar farm plus a small/mid sized windmill. Depending on your location, you can get decent wind almost continuously, especially at night when there is no sunlight. This reduces the investment you need to make in batteries to store the solar power.

[Grady223]

I would encourage all the islands to mount as many of the big windmills as would fit - bet Rattle Snake could fit 25 -30, Diamond could fit another dozen, as could Barndoor and Sleepers. With the strong NW winds and no winter usage, payback from selling power back to the grid would be short. What a benefit to the envoronment. And, what an improvement it would be to the beauty of the Lake - should really improve everyone's view!

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Grady223

I would encourage all the islands to mount as many of the big windmills as would fit - bet Rattle Snake could fit 25 -30, Diamond could fit another dozen, as could Barndoor and Sleepers. With the strong NW winds and no winter usage, payback from selling power back to the grid would be short. What a benefit to the envoronment. And, what an improvement it would be to the beauty of the Lake - should really improve everyone's view!

This would prolly require the Clear Cutting of ALL the trees on the islands which would also provide even more Renewable Energy to warm us for many winters to come. YES..? NB

[ApS]

"Bird-strikes" into skyscrapers are devastating in numbers, but the ordinary house cat kills many more songbirds than any of today's technologies. (The relatively small island of Key West has about 40,000 housecats and is a major US flyway for migrating songbirds).

Originally Posted by VtSteve

"...most electric power generation was fueled by coal ..."

New coal-fired plants are to be bankrupted.

Originally Posted by Grady223

I would encourage all the islands to mount as many of the big windmills as would fit - bet Rattle Snake could fit 25 -30, Diamond could fit another dozen, as could Barndoor and Sleepers. With the strong NW winds and no winter usage, payback from selling power back to the grid would be short. What a benefit to the envoronment. And, what an improvement it would be to the beauty of the Lake - should really improve everyone's view!

Let's take another view at Lake Winnipesaukee and "view":

Lake Winnipesaukee's first windmills should be copies of those off US coasts and be built at "The Witches".

(Improving the "view" of The Witches!)

[Rattlesnake Gal]

I just found this old postcard in McDude's gallery. It has a windmill! Can I guess for it would have been a pump for water?


Click here to see the postcard in PhotoPost, where you can super-size it.

[SAMIAM]

Hmmmmmm......I noticed that nobody replied to my post about the windmills out west killing THOUSANDS of birds. Mostly raptors. Golden Eagles, hawks and owls.......ground is littered with them around the windmills.
Somehow, I thought that folks who were interested in saving the planet might want to protect wildlife..................anyone care to comment??

[Rattlesnake Guy]

How about a farm at the witches? We could set a good example for the cape and islands.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

How about a farm at the witches? We could set a good example for the cape and islands.

Writing about "Cape Wind", which is off the shore of the Kennedy and Cronkite compounds at Nantucket, SAIL magazine writes this excerpt:

"...There have been many proposals for offshore wind farms on the U.S. coast, but none to date are operational; Cape Wind is the closest to fruition. So far, U.S. energy companies have opted for land-based wind farms, whereas offshore farms are common in Europe..."

...and...

Cape Wind is supported by the Audobon (sic) Society.

The magazine notes that the Cape Wind permitting process began eight years ago.

[Cobalt 25]

I have been following the Cape Wind fiasco since it's inception. When it was first proposed, my first reaction was that it must be a joke- there's no way it could be approved because it would ruin the Sound.

After reading more about it, I changed my opinion. The objections raised by the antis (The Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound) were truly bogus. One by one, the studies during these past 8 years showed that a wind farm at that location would not be detrimental to the environment at all. Yet the Alliance introduced lawsuit after lawsuit in a successful attempt to delay the process.

I have been a big supporter of Ted Kennedy, and this was the only issue upon which I disagreed with him. He has, in my opinion, done a lot for our country, but his position on this issue seemed self-serving. I wish he had changed his position on this before he passed away.

Shameful. In my opinion, shameful is the only word that can describe the obstructionism shown by the antis. And the latest? The permitting process is again on hold because the Wampanoag Tribe claims the windmills will prevent them from being able to practice their religion because they will block out the sun! Their casinos apparently don't count if you are standing on the west side of them in the morning. There is soon going to be a very important ruling on this latest bogus claim in the courts.

8 years. It is amazing what a small group of zealots can do to prevent something like this from happening. Getting Audubon Society approval should be the ultimate testimonial to the value of this project.

Windmills on Winni! A great way to be a leader in new technology to help improve the environment! They're coming folks, like it or not.

Peter

[trfour]

'Stealth' wind turbine blade may end radar problem.
cnet-Reuters; http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10...orsPicksArea.0

[Shedwannabe]

Apropos of all the hot air expanded on "how the theft of the emails proved climate change was a hoax"... the inquiry into the "fake data" conducted by the oversight agency found...guess what? ... That the scientists were telling the truth, that the data was there to prove them, and that the climate change deniers were in fact wrong (as some of us had said all along)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/sc...aa.html?ref=us

Unfortunately, this will not get the headlines the false accusations got, and those who have had their heads in the sand the last few years will still believe the false accusations (which unfortunately includes the NH Republican Party which voted to leave the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative because climate change was a hoax....). The data shows climate change is happening. ALL national academies of science around the world accept it. The flat-earther's of our time, the climate deniers, don't.

The saddest thing is that there is a group of people, including many active on this forum, who prefer fantasy and self·-aggrandizement over reality and living sustainably. Not only do they want to ignore reality themselves, they want to force everyone else to ignore reality by eviscerating all attempts to respond to the problems.

[SIKSUKR]

Oh this really changes my mind now.Why didn't you show me this in the past.All of us that have our head in the sand as you say have one thing you don't,our own opinions and thought process based on independent readings and studies.People like yourself are the real problem because they allow themselves to have their head stuck in the sand by other liberal media sources.

Again from me:There is no debate that the climate is changing.Its always changed since the earth was formed,millions of years before humans were on this planet.We've had everything from a firey hot atmosphere to a mile of ice on top of where we live today.The debate is whether it is manmade.I subscibe that our little tiny sample of climate is but a grain of sand in the solar sytem.

The only people that want to force everyone else to ignore reality by eviscerating all attempts to respond to the problems, as you accused others is yourself and others like you that call out other people that have differing opinions and chastize them.Your last post proves this.Typical liberal mentality,if you don't agree with me then I'll call you names to discredit you.

In short,thank you for confirming I have the correct vision and political persuasion.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Hmmmmmm......I noticed that nobody replied to my post about the windmills out west killing THOUSANDS of birds. Mostly raptors. Golden Eagles, hawks and owls.......ground is littered with them around the windmills.
Somehow, I thought that folks who were interested in saving the planet might want to protect wildlife..................anyone care to comment??

...gee whiz...if they can build fish ladders so the salmon can migrate up and down river around a dam.....then they should just build some big safety cages around the whirling propellers to protect the birds. On second thought....how about bird ladders so the birdies can climb around the windmills?

[trfour]

No worries here in the Lakes Region, FLL.


Link; http://www.currykerlinger.com/birds.htm

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Hmmmmmm......I noticed that nobody replied to my post about the windmills out west killing THOUSANDS of birds. Mostly raptors. Golden Eagles, hawks and owls.......ground is littered with them around the windmills.
Somehow, I thought that folks who were interested in saving the planet might want to protect wildlife..................anyone care to comment??

Thought about it.

Decided to pass on it until you posted again.

And actually, Acres Per Second did make remarks on your post (see above). So did StephenB and I believe he said something about "poor planning" on the part of the engineers. If that's the case then the company who installed those things out west should move them.

I've lived in CA and seen the hills covered by wind turbines. They're awesome to see. I believe there's a mandate in the state that calls for a certain amount of renewable energy to be supplied. I think it's smart on their part because our dependence on foreign countries supplying our oil is hurting us.

Did you watch the video I posted? It's addressed by an engineer who designs the wind turbines, when he spoke to the Alton & Barnstead school boards at a meeting. (Alton & Barnstead share a high school and have a joint maintenance agreement - both school boards meet together to manage the high school.)

There's an excellent study here: http://www.awea.org/faq/sagrillo/swbirds.html

And a good article about it here:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...n_misconce.php

Now, take into consideration the availability of wind, the use of a "renewable" source for energy, and a source that is local vs. being from a foreign country, like oil, and the benefits of the wind turbine far outweigh the negatives, in my opinion. I'd wager that far more damage is done from an oil spill than from a wind turbine.

[Yosemite Sam]

Here is an interesting article about a person who put a WindMill on her land in Ossipee. The article was in the Granite State News sometime in early 2008.



BY ELISSA PAQUETTE
Staff Writer

OSSIPEE — A 34-foot windmill reaches toward the sky from Cecily Clark’s hilltop acreage in Ossipee. The three, six- foot long fiberglass
blades rotate continuously downwind atop a tapered pole, producing a slight hum when the wind picks up. As the wind direction shifts, so
do the blades. Clark, a sculptor, admires the elegant design. “I always wanted one,” she says, “and the technology is here now.” A chance meeting with contractors Greg and Leonah Simon, recent residents from Nova Scotia who specialize in windmill installation, enabled Clark to fulfill her desire to run her studio on clean energy. “It’s a natural extension for me. My father was a product of the Depression. He saved tinfoil, made sure we turned out the lights when we left the room, and always emphasized conservation,” says Clark. “I can remember when we had to return our toothpaste tubes before buying a new one at the pharmacy. There was lead in them.” Clark,who has lived in the area since 1968, just beyond the Wolfeboro-Ossipee town line on Pork Hill, is a pioneer of sorts. She is the first person to generate wind energy
harnessed to the Wolfeboro Municipal Electric Department grid. Learning the process has been a challenge for her as well as Barry Muccio,
manager of the electric facility. Since the department is not under the jurisdiction of the Public Utilities Commission, he had to gather
information to draft Wolfeboro’s own policy for a “net metering” pilot program. The pilot program was recently approved by Wolfeboro selectmen. The eight-page document states, “the goal will be to establish future policies which will remain consistent with prudent electrical practices set forth by the National Electric Safety Code,National Electric Code and any other Federal, State and local government codes, while offering a mutual service agreement which is legal, objective, reliable and safe to both participating parties (utility and customer).” Net metering allows a person to be connected to the grid with a meter that runs both ways. When the windmill is generating more electricity than needed, the electric meter runs backward and the electric company records a credit. When the customer’s needs exceed production, the meter reverses course. At the end of a month, there is either a bill to pay or a credit. Since there is no one else currently in her position, Clark will be a primary source of feedback over the course of the year – as well as any others who might want to emulate her. Standing on her hilltop, gazing over the Ossipee Mountain range, she points to a complex of white buildings in a clearing within the rolling, forested vista off in the distance. “They are interested in installing a windmill too,” she points out. Her neighbors also have expressed an interest. They’ll be able to
benefit from her journey through the installation steps and now, production. The anemometer on Clark’s sunroom wall tells her the highest rate of wind in a given day. Thirty to 40 mph gusts are frequent, making her location ideal for generating wind energy. Seventy mph is the highest rate she has recorded, Early in October 2007, Clark ordered her windmill. The cost? $12,000 for the fixed costs, excluding having to
hire an electrician and contractor, and wire at $1 a foot. Her windmill is 300 feet from the meter, necessitating a $300 expense for wire alone.
Trees had to be cut, a trench dug to hold a conduit for the wires, and a hole excavated for the 3,000 pounds of concrete in the six-foot deep base. The rebar cage itself, embedded in the concrete foundation, weighed 750 pounds. Every day brought excitement as the project progressed. Clark’s photo diary shows the men working with snow underfoot as winter approached. Clark terms it “most exciting” to watch the workers hoist the tower into place on its base with their gin pole, but she declares Dec. 22, 2007, the first day of operation,“ the real McCoy.” Clark can now look at her computer screen and see detailed, current information on her windmill’s productionrate. That data is interfaced with Arizona-based Southwest Wind power, a company that just started producing her Skystream 3.7 model a year ago. When
there are glitches, as there have been in the early months of the year, Greg and Leonah Simons have access to the data and are able to
communicate with the company. Soon after installation, production stopped while the inverter (the device that converts direct current to alternating current) had to be reconfigured. Currently, when the blades get to a certain speed, the turbine shuts off. The Simons are communicating with the company to resolve the issue. Clark is “unphased.” She recognizes that a venture into new territory is not without
obstacles to solve, saying, “Somebody has to be the first.” She estimates that she’ll be able to cover the electrical production for the kiln in her sculpture studio, but most important is that she is using clean, renewable energy. If there is any surplus, she has the satisfaction that other users will also be able to power their homes, even if only in part, from energy that is not polluting the air. The electric department installed the necessary meter with a kill switch to be used at any point that work needs to be done on the wires, and another meter shows her total production to date. On days when the wind is blowing, “it’s great to watch the electric meter run backwards.” Her Skystream 3.7 produced 14 kilowatt hours of electricity in a 20-hour period in March. To date, with various starts and stops, she’s produced close to 130 kilowatt hours. “I know it’s only a drop in the bucket, but it’s a step in the right direction. We should be encouraging clean energy use in some fashion.”
According to figures suppliedby the N.H. Public Utilities Commission, Clark’s wind turbine is among only 15 such units generating into
electric grids in New Hampshire. A few installations have been around since the 1980s. As for incentives, Wolfeboro voters passed a warrant article (31) to adopt the provisions of RSA72:66 for a property tax exemption of $5,000 for home owners equipped with a wind-powered
energy system. Under the state’s net-metering law, final rules have been established and are readily available online under Final Rules – PUC 900. Tom Frantz of the Public Utilities Commission urges interested parties to look at RSA362-a:9, which lists the conditions that net metering customers must follow. The Wolfeboro Muncipal Electric (WMED) Department’s pilot program adopted most of the rules set forth by the state, but as a separate entity, the department has the right to establish its own guidelines. One deviation is that the monthly base rate to customers, which stays the same in utility companies throughout the state, is currently double the rate for Wolfeboro’s net metering customers. Also, while the state’s net metering rules offer customers the opportunity to sell electricity to up to three retail customers, the
WMED draft states that the agreement with a customer will be “based on the premise of offsetting part or all of the customer’s own electrical requirements through the use of renewable energy technology.” That includes solar or hydro as well as wind. Cecily Clark is Wolfeboro’s first net metering customer, but more are sure to follow. Already, Peter Goodrich, who will be retiring in June to live full-time inWolfeboro in his solar home, is contributing to the grid too. New manufacturing and service economies are on the rise state and nationwide. Wolfeboro is on its way to going green.

[fatlazyless]

Around the lake, Gunstock Mt ski area stands out as potential windy spot to build a wind turbine. Gunstock already has numerous chairlift towers that go unused for about eight months/year. Building an introductory wind turbine somewhere up on Gunstock Mountain might be a year round energy maker?


Oops... I forgot that Gunstock belongs to Belknap County....so it has an unlimited source of money and generating income is not a problem......sorry....

[Rattlesnake Gal]

The Long Island Inn used to have a windmill too. Used I would guess to pump water?

[Dr. Green]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Around the lake, Gunstock Mt ski area stands out as potential windy spot to build a wind turbine. Gunstock already has numerous chairlift towers that go unused for about eight months/year. Building an introductory wind turbine somewhere up on Gunstock Mountain might be a year round energy maker?

Interestingly, Gunstock approached my store (www.sustainabilitynh.com) about the possibility of installing solar panels on Gunstock Mtn. to help power their huts, etc. I pointed out that all ski areas face north, to keep the sun off the slopes so the snow stays longer, so the return on the installation would likely never equal the outlay of purchase and installation (unlike normal south facing residential solar installations, which can pay for themselves in 15-20 years (with State and Federal rebates).

[Yosemite Sam]

There was a good article in the Meredith News this week about a family that runs their house on solar panels (or hopes to anyway).

Click on picture below to read the article:

[SAMIAM]

I don't mean any disrespect to those of you who want solar and wind,because I know that you mean well......but geeze,guys.....Solar and wind together only account for 1% of our power......and our president has said he will double that in the next few years to a whopping 2%.Wouldn't a reasonable person think that maybe we should explore a clean emission plan for natural gas,coal......and HORRORS...even oil that are all plentiful within our borders?.....I know,I know, how good it feels to have solar panels and windmills,but they won't power a motor vehicle or get a plane into the air.They just trickle a little power into a huge battery pack and,occaisionally,back to the grid.
I think we are being hoodwinked with this global warming thing.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Dr. Green

Interestingly, Gunstock approached my store (www.sustainabilitynh.com) about the possibility of installing solar panels on Gunstock Mtn. to help power their huts, etc. I pointed out that all ski areas face north, to keep the sun off the slopes so the snow stays longer, so the return on the installation would likely never equal the outlay of purchase and installation (unlike normal south facing residential solar installations, which can pay for themselves in 15-20 years (with State and Federal rebates).

Gunstock should take their competitor Wachusetts as a green initiative. Wachusetts harness the heat from the air and water compressors use in snowmaking to heat their main lodge. Wachusetts received commendation from the fed for their initiatives.

[Nagigator]

Wachusett Mountain in Princeton, Ma is installing 2 rather large windmills on the summit.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSFKdARjCFM

Hope this goes through!

Clarification: The Princeton Light Dept. is installing 2 windmills on the summit of Wachusett Mountain.

[StephenB]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Hmmmmmm......I noticed that nobody replied to my post about the windmills out west killing THOUSANDS of birds. Mostly raptors. Golden Eagles, hawks and owls.......ground is littered with them around the windmills.
Somehow, I thought that folks who were interested in saving the planet might want to protect wildlife..................anyone care to comment??

Ummm, read up. I responded to your post already. Repeat: most of the birds killed out west are killed at one wind farm at Atamont Pass outside of the Bay area. Most folks now agree that this particular area, combined with lots of smaller, earlier generation windmills with smaller, higher speed blades, are responsible for the bird deaths. Please read up for the rest of my comments.

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Hmmmmmm......I noticed that nobody replied to my post about the windmills out west killing THOUSANDS of birds. Mostly raptors. Golden Eagles, hawks and owls.......ground is littered with them around the windmills.
Somehow, I thought that folks who were interested in saving the planet might want to protect wildlife..................anyone care to comment??

Your post caught my eye. I knew I had read a similar report. I remembered where I say it.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...nd-farms_N.htm

[John A. Birdsall]

This conversation is somewhat over my head, but in the beginning of this thread it was about windmill power. I am assuming that Rattlesnake has an association. It would seem to me that two things could go on the peak of Rattlesnake, Cell towers for At&t and windmills to give the island electricity.

I think the wind would generate enough for the whole island. Other Islands Large ones) would or could do the same thing.

As for Al Gore, let him keep thinking he invented the internet, Someone once said that he could be replaced, and they were right he was replaced.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

This conversation is somewhat over my head, but in the beginning of this thread it was about windmill power. I am assuming that Rattlesnake has an association. It would seem to me that two things could go on the peak of Rattlesnake, Cell towers for At&t and windmills to give the island electricity.

I think the wind would generate enough for the whole island. Other Islands Large ones) would or could do the same thing.

A windmill or perhaps windmills were looked into by Rattlesnake Island Association.
"Not only was it cost prohibitive, but the town was not in general favor of the project." - Quote from the RIA Secretary.

[StephenB]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

I read a story this month....National Geographic or Smithsonian,not sure which one,that indicated that 100's of thousands of birds were being killed by the windmills out west.Mostly golden eagles,hawks and owls.For some reason they are mostly raptors.I'm puzzled why people who profess to care about the enviroment would want a windmill anywhere near them.
As I recall,Exxon got fined millons of $$ for accidentally killing 80 migrating birds.The have stopped road and bridge projects for a nesting eagle,osprey or owl.There is a federal law that calls for huge fines for causing the death...or even harrassing or interferring with migrating birds.
Hey,I'm with ya' on solar,wave energy, ethanol,nuclear....you name it,but if you want windmills ,say goodbye to your little birdies.

From what I understand, the vast majority of windmill bird deaths in the West happen at one early and rather poorly planned windfarm in Atamont (sp?) near San Francisco. Due to poor knowledge of the time of bird migration routes, this particular facility is in a uniquely poor place as well as having a large number of pretty small windmills turning so fast the birds can't avoid the blades.

Ordinary skyscrapers are estimated to kill many times more birds than all of the more modern windfarms presently operating in the US.