New Moultonborough valuations

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by ARV

Why blame the Select Board for Vision's doing? No matter what assessing company the town decides to hire, there are going to be problems and someone will not be happy. Obviously, the Select Board's hands are tied and it sounds like they are doing the best they can to assist homeowners in getting their questions answered/problems resolved. Oh yes, it's the Select Board's fault that the folks at Vision Appraisal would not lower the assessment. That's logical

Next, I am happy to see that the post did not turn into an SB2 rant. SB2 lost 2 years in a row (enough said).

Lastly, and I know this will cause a stir, if you really have a problem with your property assessments and bills, you always have the right to move elsewhere - with higher taxes.

Becaus the state hired Vision and the select board is part of government. Now the select board has to deal with this as we all know what flows down hill!
"The Select Board's hands are tied and are doing the best they can to assist", how? What are they doing to assist? When has any town when it comes to assesments/taxes do they try to assist. Not in my town!

With your comment of "you always have the right to move elsewhere", you are obviously of the opinion that we all should just take it up the you know what or move! No wonder NH is becoming Mass. north.

[tummyman]

As I read the posts, this is a "charged" topic full of emotion. So lets all try and take the emotion out of the discussion. We all live here, one way or another. Some can vote and others cannot.....that is the way it is currently. However, the process, in my opinion, is flawed. The process starts with Vision mailing out new assessments. Then, if you are unhappy, you can make an appointment to meet with Vision. However, they make no changes unless their cards are in need of update/correction, such as you have fewer bedrooms, or have an unfinished crawl space and they have you listed as having a full basement. The only discussion about flaws in the process must wait until the December tax bills are mailed and then you file for an abatement, along with collecting all sorts of data, including hiring an independent appraiser to represent you. More money out the window. In our situation, we fundamentally think that one property sale skewed the results very dramatically and that Vision did not adequately appraise and subsequently allocate changes to the building vs. land values. We asked them to re-look, but they just said that they have standards to follow. Changes in values that whip 17% up one year and then get reduced 15% the next when there is another property sale make no sense. The town, whether it is the Select Board or others, should be looking at whether wild swings are abnormal occurrences or realistic changes in the market and then try and minimize the ranges of changes, unless they have many data points to collaborate the results. Any change of greater than +/- 5% in this market needs further evaluation.... Same will be true for those who saw large reductions in assessments this time around, as they will not be as happy when there are new sales and the assessments go right back up in their neighborhoods. And lets not offend people with childish suggestions that if they don't like it, move.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by tummyman

Any change of greater than +/- 5% in this market needs further evaluation.... Same will be true for those who saw large reductions in assessments this time around, as they will not be as happy when there are new sales and the assessments go right back up in their neighborhoods. And lets not offend people with childish suggestions that if they don't like it, move.

I'm not sure I agree. +/- 5% specifically in the economy we have been experiencing is very much expected, from say late '07 till maybe early summer this year. Same fluctuation can be found in peoples retirement funds, many with 35% or larger lossesd. I for one came in -17% last year in my 401K and right now, today, am at 22.2%...That's a huge swing.

[LIforrelaxin]

When it comes to paying your taxes remeber one thing. You could take a Vacation to Hawaii blow 5K no problem probably more have a good week and all your left with are memories,..... if you have a camp that has been around for generations, and it paid for and all you do is pay 5K for taxes and some general money for up keep you have a vacation that lasts all summer long, and continues to give you memories....

I don't know about anyone else, but I would rather keep making memories rather then create them and only have them after that.......

[Pineedles]

Well for the first time our valuation went down. Yipee! I did notice that they list a 1/2 bath as a full bath. Anyone have any idea how much that would drop valuation once it is corrected?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Well for the first time our valuation went down. Yipee! I did notice that they list a 1/2 bath as a full bath. Anyone have any idea how much that would drop valuation once it is corrected?

I am thinking that the difference would be minor. If you where talking about a Bedroom that would be one thing, and that I would believe could make a 10 - 20K difference. But a 1/2 to a full bath, I am not even sure I would argue over it.... unless you have seen a steep increase because of it.

[dpg]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

When it comes to paying your taxes remeber one thing. You could take a Vacation to Hawaii blow 5K no problem probably more have a good week and all your left with are memories,..... if you have a camp that has been around for generations, and it paid for and all you do is pay 5K for taxes and some general money for up keep you have a vacation that lasts all summer long, and continues to give you memories....

I don't know about anyone else, but I would rather keep making memories rather then create them and only have them after that.......

Your argument sounds great, for the people who own out-right. What about the person who owns a second home in Moultonborough and pays 800 or more monthly? Possibly for them every dollar matters.

[breathe easy]

Originally Posted by dpg

Your argument sounds great, for the people who own out-right. What about the person who owns a second home in Moultonborough and pays 800 or more monthly? Possibly for them every dollar matters.

Excellent comment. Many of us are struggling so every tax dollar saved does matter.

[Lakepilot]

Wolfeboro hired Vision Appraisal also. The first thing they did was value all properties in town. Looking at that value times the then current tax rate or millage our taxes would have been unbelievable. I appealed and they reduced the valuation 30%, but then the town announced a new tax rate based on the town wide assessments. Based on the new tax rate ours was 1/2 of what it would have been with the initial assessment and the old tax rate- which is still outrageously high by the way.

Has Moultonborough announced a new tax rate based on the town wide reassessment?

[tis]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

Wolfeboro hired Vision Appraisal also. The first thing they did was value all properties in town. Looking at that value times the then current tax rate or millage our taxes would have been unbelievable. I appealed and they reduced the valuation 30%, but then the town announced a new tax rate based on the town wide assessments. Based on the new tax rate ours was 1/2 of what it would have been with the initial assessment and the old tax rate- which is still outrageously high by the way.

Has Moultonborough announced a new tax rate based on the town wide reassessment?

That is typical. The towns need x amount of money to operate. It doesn't matter if your house is assessed at a million dollars and taxed at $10 a thousand or $500,000 and taxed at $20 a thousand. It is the same amount. What it does though, is after a few years, the rates creep up again because everyone thinks their rate is low, forgetting how much the valuations went up. And the people who get hurt are the ones who were undervalued and theirs go up a lot all at once to catch up.

[fatlazyless]

While not about Moultonborough, here's some property tax info from Belmont, the lakes region town south of Laconia, that demonstates how the local NH property tax system works.
............................................

Belmont tax rate up 7.4% due to decline in tax base

Belmont - The New Hampshire Department of Revenue Administration this week set the 2009 property tax rate at $19.69 per $1,000 of assessed value which is $1.35, or 7.4-percent higher, than the 2008 rate of $18.34.

The jump in the rate reflects a steep drop in assessed values along with a decline in revenues from sources other than property taxes, including the loss of municipal revenue sharing from the state. The total assessed valuation fell $73.6-million, or 9.2-percent, from $798,243,137 to $724,682,218.

The total tax burden, the total amount to be raised by property taxes, actually decreased from $14.4-million to $14.0 million.

The town portion of the tax rate rose from $6.24 to $6.99, the local school tax from $8.84 to $9.02, the state education property tax from $2.04 to $2.35 and the county tax from $1.22 to $1.33.

Laconia Daily Sun, 10/26/09, Michael Kitch
................

With no short term or long term capital gains tax, no income tax, no sales tax, and no oil fields underground like in Alaska, the New Hampshire local property tax is NH's 'hi-torque tax engine.' It does the heavy lifting. Here in New Hampshire, you can lose your job only to see your home's assessed value go down, and at the same time your property tax bill can go up. How is that a fair tax?

...............

As a side note, I'd like to mention that the State of NH gets more tax revenue when some poor slob like me buys a one-dollar mcchicken sandwich, namely 9 cents, as opposed to the zero cents which NH received from Senator Judd Gregg when he won $850,000 in the October 25, 2005 Powerball Lottery.

What a wacky NH tax system! NH has a tax system where the mcchickens do the heavy lifting for the Powerballs.

[breathe easy]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

With no short term or long term capital gains tax, no income tax, no sales tax, and no oil fields underground like in Alaska, the New Hampshire local property tax is NH's 'hi-torque tax engine.' It does the heavy lifting. Here in New Hampshire, you can lose your job only to see your home's assessed value go down, and at the same time your property tax bill can go up. How is that a fair tax?

I don't know about fairness, but each towns "legislative body" ( voters) approve appropriations and budgets each year and regardless of what happens to valuations and other revenue sources, the tax rate has to be adjusted to raise sufficient revenue to pay the bills.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by dpg

Your argument sounds great, for the people who own out-right. What about the person who owns a second home in Moultonborough and pays 800 or more monthly? Possibly for them every dollar matters.

DPG,

I don't disagree. But what I don't like hearing about are people that are in my situation where the place is all payed for and is being handed down generation to generation. Because it is payed for it is the best vacation for the dollar I can ever have.

Now the other thing is there are people in the situation I am in, and Then Mom and Dad Pass away, or give them complete control, and they tare down the camp and put up a new year around place...(4 families on my road have done this).... Then they wine about the cost. They don't use the place anymore then they did before and now have a mortgage and higher taxes.....this amounts to stupidity in my estimation......

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Becaus the state hired Vision and the select board is part of government. Now the select board has to deal with this as we all know what flows down hill!
"The Select Board's hands are tied and are doing the best they can to assist", how? What are they doing to assist? When has any town when it comes to assesments/taxes do they try to assist. Not in my town!

With your comment of "you always have the right to move elsewhere", you are obviously of the opinion that we all should just take it up the you know what or move! No wonder NH is becoming Mass. north.

Please be more accurate in your statements.
1) The state DID NOT hire Vision Appraisal, the town did. Different towns handle the assessing task in different ways. In all cases; however, the ultimate responsibility is with the slectmen.
2) Moultonboro hired a part time assessor, Brownie Jones, years ago and also brought in Vision. As some of you may know Brownie has done an excellent job over the years and is retiring soon. He will readily admit that he does not always agree with Vision.
3) The town is presently in the process of hiring a new assessor who is slated to be full time.
4) As a general rule, if you feel that your assessment is way off, don't hesitate to go to BTLA.

Also, remember that assessing is not a preciss science.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Please be more accurate in your statements.
1) The state DID NOT hire Vision Appraisal, the town did. Different towns handle the assessing task in different ways. In all cases; however, the ultimate responsibility is with the slectmen.
2) Moultonboro hired a part time assessor, Brownie Jones, years ago and also brought in Vision. As some of you may know Brownie has done an excellent job over the years and is retiring soon. He will readily admit that he does not always agree with Vision.
3) The town is presently in the process of hiring a new assessor who is slated to be full time.
4) As a general rule, if you feel that your assessment is way off, don't hesitate to go to BTLA.

Also, remember that assessing is not a preciss science.

My bad, I was under the impression that the state hired vision as they also were used in several towns including mine here in the southern part of the state.