Speed Limit

[JG1222]

Originally Posted by JG1222

Of the fatalities in 2003, when the status of “Boat Operator Instruction” was known, 77% of the fatalities were because the parties involved had “None”.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

So how is this a big deal?

Acres, if you can't see how boater education (like driver education for cars and rider education for motorcycles/snowmobiles) plays a significant role in preventing, reducing or avoiding situations where fatalities or injuries could occur (like safe operation and speeding which, in case you haven't noticed, happens to be the subject of this thread), it probably wouldn't make much sense to try to explain it.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

If the law passes performance boat will not loose any value. But they will have to sell them somewhere else, the market on the lake will be poor.

The boats you talk about are not the norm. Bowriders in the 150 to 250 HP is the norm. Only a small percentage of boats on the lake will do over 60.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Island Lover]

How could a speed limit on the lake change the value of a high performance boat? Put it on a trailer and sell it on Cape Cod, Long Island, Miami, Key West ect. OK you will be out the transportation charges.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Island Lover

How could a speed limit on the lake change the value of a high performance boat? Put it on a trailer and sell it on Cape Cod, Long Island, Miami, Key West ect. OK you will be out the transportation charges.

Case in point - you just explained how the value of ANY BOAT capable of speeds in excess of 45mph will be adversely effected. CLUE - it costs money to ship a boat elsewhere, it costs money to advertise it elsewhere, it costs money for the boat to be shown elsewhere not to mention time. Do you have ANY idea what transportation charges are to ship a boat to Miami? Do you even know what it entails to do such a thing?

Now the marinas which sell boats capable of speeds in excess of 45mph, of which there are at least 4 of them on the lake I can think of right away, they will have to sell the boats at a reduced cost (if not a loss) and in order to remain in business they will need to pick up another line of boats and in case you are not aware, picking up a line of boats is not like shopping for shoes. There are 'exclusives' involved based on territory and such, so this could be a huge financial undertaking if at all feasible for all those marinas. In short, you could expect the marinas to have lay offs and that I'm sure you would agree this would not be an economical benefit to the states economy.

This speed limit topic and your rebuttals all fall back on the same issue - education and the need for it.

[Audiofn]

Interestingly it is not the "Gofasters" that will only be effected by this law. What about all the bass fishermen? Most boats now days go over 45mph. Even this one goes faster then my "go fast" boat. I guess it is not so fast

[Audiofn]

We ran a radar trap for a Poker run in upstate NY. They were unable to get a read off ANY of our boats. That included one run that they asked us to go with in 30 feet of their boat. The radar was run by a certified officer and he could not make it work. So how do you measure speed on the water?

Jon

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

"...The radar was run by a certified officer and he could not make it work. So how do you measure speed on the water...?"

AND

Originally Posted by Formula Outlaw

"...Radar guns do not work on boats so it will be up to the MP to learn how to judge speed on the water..."

Looks like we'll just have to give up on our silly polls and our silly new law.

Oh wait!

Didn't Audiofn advise this forum last season that "We couldn't measure exhaust noise?"
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...4&postcount=97

ONCE AGAIN...

Originally Posted by Formula Outlaw

"...From 91' to 96' I trailered over to "the Lake" more than 20 times. Loved boating there. I've also boated on Sebago and Moosehead in Maine..."

AND

Originally Posted by Formula Outlaw

"...You must have a "wake law" up there, enforce it..."

We've had a "wake law" in our Winnipesaukee boating handbooks for decades. Perhaps you overlooked it while reviewing our safety regulations.

[FormulaOutlaw]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

AND Looks like we'll just have to give up on our silly polls and our silly new law.

Oh wait!

Didn't Audiofn advise this forum last season that "We couldn't measure exhaust noise?"
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...4&postcount=97

ONCE AGAIN...

AND We've had a "wake law" in our Winnipesaukee boating handbooks for decades. Perhaps you overlooked it while reviewing our safety regulations.

I never posted anything about radar guns and boats. Sorry, you can't blame that one on me. I believe Jon posted that, and the fact is that it is true.

I've never even looked at your "safety regulations". If you are having that many problems up there, then obviously they are not being enforced. If you've had a "wake law" in place, then why all the complaints about wakes? Answer: it obviously is not being enforced. So instead of the idea of a speed limits, and we all know why some of you are pushing for that, concentrate on the problem at hand. You have a law on the books, it's not being enforced, why???? If that law is not being enforced, why would one think that another law would be enforced.

Some of you really need to stop a second and think about what you are posting. It does not make basic logical common sense. You have a wake law, use it. There's one major problem down.

If you're going to continue to try to make us look bad because you can't reasonably counter our concepts or posts, at least get the name right.

And while I live in Nokomis, a quaint little town as it was called, I live on the water less than five minutes from both the ICW and the Gulf. I boat between Ft. Myers and St. Petersburg. And I doubt very seriously you have anywhere near the boat traffic we do especially on holiday weekends. On a good Memorial Day weekend we can have up to five thousand boats in the waters around here. For a fifteen mile stretch of the ICW it can be stern to bow, for fifteen miles. And you think you've got congestion?

It's not my job to read/review your safety regulations up there. I only jumped in this Forum because of your attempt to regulate performance boats off a Lake that can certainly handle them, only because there is a group of people up there who do not like them. And you continually exhibit the "I don't like it so you can't do it" self centered ideology. Sorry folks, that is as wrong as wrong gets. If you don't like those boats, don't buy one. But don't demean others that do. I'm sure you would not appreciate a group of people trying to ban the type of vessel you enjoy. Live and let live. Do unto others. Some of you need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and think about that.

[FormulaOutlaw]

And what in the world does quoting my post of trailering over to Lake Winni have to do with anything????

As far as I'm concerned there's a wake law everywhere. At least I make sure my wake does no one else harm. That's called "responsible boating".

Acres: maybe you should teach a voluntary responsible boating class and tell everyone up there about the wake law that's been on the books for decades that apparently no one knows, or cares, about, or worse yet not enforced.

Roll your eyes on that one.

[FormulaOutlaw]

It appears the longer this thread goes, the more people are responding with "education and awareness" is the key to the situation at hand.

Over in the Speed Limit Poll thread, I noticed that BearLover was getting dressed down a bit by his/her own members. (not meant to be offensive here, settle down people)

I'm only stating that more and more seem to be agreeing that speed limits are not the answer, that they are nothing more than an approach that some would use to try to remove the big bad "ceegar" boats from the Lake.

I have a novel suggestion. If you want to ban one boat, ban them all. No canoes, no sailboats, no fishboats, no bowriders, no nothing. Not even an inner tube to float around in. Ban humans from the water, not even swimming. Allow them to fish but only from shore or a dock. What is good for one should be good for all. And what is bad for one should be bad for all.
Then watch what happens to your precious property values.

Like already posted, concentrate on the issue at hand, safety on the lake. And stop demonizing others who have/post different opinions than some of you.

One more thing, I think it's really "chicken" to go into the Marine Mafia site, steal posts, post them here for no other reason than to try to discredit otherwise respectful meanngful posts here. Those of you that have done that should register at the other site and post your views there. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

[Audiofn]

Acres you are missing the point. How if they can not radar a boat will they be able to establish with any accuracy the speed of a boat? Some boats look like they are going faster when in fact they are going slower. It is not even close to estimating the speed of a car, you have no reference points to look at or anything. The cost of training the MP were the kids ussually only are around for a year anyhow would be huge. I find it interesting that I have asked all you guys questions, honest questions, and NONE of them have been answered. Just a lot of back talk like AND.... Kids have arguments like that.... We have shown facts that very few accidents involve speed. We have also shown facts that even though the number of boats on the lake have gone up, the number of accidents has gone down. You saying that there is a wake law on the books proves a point that the MP does not enforce the many laws that they already have to work with. I for one HATE huge wakes when they hit my dock, and would love to see this law enforced. It is something that is a LOT more enforcable as you can see the large wakes, and there is NO doubt that it damages the shores. However the large wakes have nothing to do with speed. Actually to have the speed limit will increase the size of most of the wake that is seen on the lake as a boat that is going as speeds over 35-45mph ussually puts off a much smaller wake, I know mine does.

You brought up the noise post to try and discredit me so I feel that I have to respond to that. It is TOTALLY true, you can not measure noise on the water accuratly. Since that is something that I do in my work I know a little something about it. When I DB a room/theater we turn off everything in the house, refridgerators, ac/heat, other tv's in the house as they will all make our readings inaccurate. These are in 30 million dollar homes with high end heating systems that are not all that loud to begin with and rooms that are super isolated from sound but we still have to go through all this effort to get the room as quite as possible. You can actually see the meter jump if some one walks in the house. We use a 5,000 dollar meter and mic. We can see the same thing however on our cheaper units. Now you are telling me that out in the open on a lake with boats and everything else you can isolate sound that well to get an accurate reading? Point two of my argument on that thread was that they were doing the readings wrong. They were taking DB readings in the river with boundry walls on either side, at a dock were noise gets amplified by the underside of the dock. Not holding the meter properly and so on. All these things are clearly against what the law says. Now they have been doing a better job as of late and we have all complied with the law. At any rate lets not get this thread off topic. I have responded to your post but the topic on this thread is speed not noise, we comply with all the noise regulations on the lake.

Jon

[CMG]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

We ran a radar trap for a Poker run in upstate NY. They were unable to get a read off ANY of our boats. That included one run that they asked us to go with in 30 feet of their boat. The radar was run by a certified officer and he could not make it work. So how do you measure speed on the water?

Jon

Boats would require a metalicl reflector visable from all sides for radar to work on sloped fiberglass surfaces. Correct me if I'M wrong but the speed would have to be estimated by the MP, tough sell when appealed. Few stationary points of reference and distance to/from objects. Again, enforce the existing safety laws.

Chris G.

[Alton Bay]

Just a reminder that the speed limit hearing is tomorrow. If you can't make the hearing, be sure to call your local reps...tonight.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

We ran a radar trap for a Poker run in upstate NY. They were unable to get a read off ANY of our boats. That included one run that they asked us to go within 30 feet of their boat. The radar was run by a certified officer and he could not make it work. So how do you measure speed on the water? Jon
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...&postcount=100

Is this the very same Audiofn that stated previously:

Originally Posted by Audiofn

The moving test is one that is JUST PLAIN DANGEROUS! I would NEVER drive my boat at WOT within 150 feet of anyone if they want me to or not. Now the law says that they want us a LOT closer to that. To that I reply NO WAY.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...14&postcount=97

Alert! Some unauthorized person has been using your user-name! Alert! Alert!


.

[Audiofn]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Is this the very same Audiofn that stated previously:



Alert! Some unauthorized person has been using your user-name! Alert! Alert!


.

Ah you think you are so smart but again I must enlighten you.... First off when we are asked to run a DB test with my pleasure boat then we are running with family on board, some times kids, standard life jackets, and none of the safty gear that I wear when I am in my race boat. I will never go anything then just over planing speed with kids on the boat. If I get pulled over by the MP's then they are going to force to me to run my boat in a manner that I am not comfortable with kids on board? When I am in a race boat I have speacial steering, it is me and my driver or me and my throttle man, we wearing not only custom made life vests but also helmets and multiple kill switches. The peole on the boat that we are running at are specially trained, and choose to put themselves in that position. I will NEVER put another person on any of my pleasure boats or another in that possition. When I get pulled over in my pleasure boat and asked to do a run like that it is NOT the choice or the people in my boat but the MP's and if it is not safe it is not safe. At any rate we did not even come close to the 30 feet that we were asked to pass as we did not feel safe doing so, others however did and they were not picked up by the radar. So I guess you have to keep digging you have yet to catch me. You also have yet to show me any evidence that this proposed speed limit will do anything to make the lake safer.

As you can see from the pictures below we are wearing our life jackets and helmets durring the run.

Jon

[CMG]

Meeting went on for 2 hours, not going to gloat but... great news - for some of us. See you this spring.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Bravo IG! I wholeheartedly agree with everything you stated.
One thing I would like add. The opinions and antagonistic views of a few forum members are just that, their opinions. Don’t judge me and the other members on these people’s actions. This forum, like the other, has a wonderful group of people that make it up.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Audiofn, certain people love a good debate and can keep it up indefinitely. It gets to a point where you just have to ignore them, that is, unless you want to keep giving them a thrill.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by JG1222

Acres, if you can't see how boater education (like driver education for cars and rider education for motorcycles/snowmobiles) plays a significant role in preventing, reducing or avoiding situations where fatalities or injuries could occur (like safe operation and speeding which, in case you haven't noticed, happens to be the subject of this thread), it probably wouldn't make much sense to try to explain it.

My points:
1) If you pilot a boat with less than 25HP, the test is not required.
2) If you pilot a boat with less than 25HP, AND never took the test AND became "roadkill", the MP would put a check-mark in the report-box next to "None"?. (No BoaterEd).
3) Boaters with more than 25HP may know the rules, but are less likely to become "roadkill".
4) Boaters with less than 25HP may-or-may-not know the rules, but are more likely to become "roadkill".

Actually, I've been increasingly surprised at the apparent effect that BoaterEd has had on Winnipesaukee. I still have rental-neighbors who "didn't know our rules" on BoaterEd, and had to "park" their boats. It's still hard to tell if a Big Boat, approaching at warp speed, has taken the test.

The violators seem to be mostly Jet-Skis with underage operators, 30-somethings full of themselves, and the few grey-hairs that aren't required to take the test as of yet.

BTW: I've been to the Marine Mafia site (Yes, Cal, you're right. I think I'll remove my e-mail option at our User CP now).

There are calls there to "push" our little speed-limit poll here.

They've also supposedly "removed the malicious content" from their Winnipesaukee thread; but who could tell Not me.

They've cleaned up their act some since last summer, but still have too many images...um...disrespectful-to-women...plus too much foul language for me to post the URL here. (They've added a new, exclusive, pay-per-view, um, Disrespectful-To-Women link. Tony S. would be proud).

Needless to say, they're calling up their big guns from Massachusetts -- and elsewhere, too -- to Concord. "Don't Go Acting Like an Idiot", they're counciling.

Now why would a Big-Boater site advise that?

[FormulaOutlaw]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

My points:
1) If you pilot a boat with less than 25HP, the test is not required.
2) If you pilot a boat with less than 25HP, AND never took the test AND became "roadkill", the MP would put a check-mark in the report-box next to "None"?. (No BoaterEd).
3) Boaters with more than 25HP may know the rules, but are less likely to become "roadkill".
4) Boaters with less than 25HP may-or-may-not know the rules, but are more likely to become "roadkill".

Actually, I've been increasingly surprised at the apparent effect that BoaterEd has had on Winnipesaukee. I still have rental-neighbors who "didn't know our rules" on BoaterEd, and had to "park" their boats. It's still hard to tell if a Big Boat, approaching at warp speed, has taken the test.

The violators seem to be mostly Jet-Skis with underage operators, 30-somethings full of themselves, and the few grey-hairs that aren't required to take the test as of yet.

BTW: I've been to the Marine Mafia site (Yes, Cal, you're right. I think I'll remove my e-mail option at our User CP now).

There are calls there to "push" our little speed-limit poll here.

They've also supposedly "removed the malicious content" from their Winnipesaukee thread; but who could tell Not me.

They've cleaned up their act some since last summer, but still have too many images...um...disrespectful-to-women...plus too much foul language for me to post the URL here. (They've added a new, exclusive, pay-per-view, um, Disrespectful-To-Women link. Tony S. would be proud).

Needless to say, they're calling up their big guns from Massachusetts -- and elsewhere, too -- to Concord. "Don't Go Acting Like an Idiot", they're counciling.

Now why would a Big-Boater site advise that?

Allow me to answer a few questions or address a few issues if you please.

"The Other Site" is not the Marine Mafia, although we did get quite a chuckle out of that. You must think we are capable of bringing some "serious muscle" to the table. What "we" are is a group of people who share the same common interest: boating. What "we" are is a group of people who like to have fun and joke around with each other. I have made some very very strong friendships in that Forum, people I have never laid eyes on. We are a 25,000 plus "family".

The reason we are paying attention to the issues on "the Lake" is because of the potential of restricting it's use to "all" that enjoy it. Not just us, but everyone. That is the most important issue here people, everyone has the same right to enjoy that lake. Not just the person in a canoe, not just the person on a jet ski, not just the person on a sailboat, and not just the person in one of them big bad "ceegar" boats.

Posting a speed limit on "the Lake" will do nothing, absolutely nothing. Education and awareness are the only two items that will help make the lake safer for all. For the life of me I cannot understand why so many people who have posted in this forum don't, or refuse, to see that. We're not talking rocket science here people, use basic common sense. "High speed" causes very very few accidents. "Inexperience" causes most. Unawareness causes a lot. Alcohol certainly contributes it's share. Not speed.

You must have a "wake law" up there, enforce it. If not, enact a "wake responsibility" law. That will help.

It has been suggested that there is a segment who wish "the Lake" to return to "the 30's". That's just not going to happen. However, if everyone works together for everyone's sake, you just might be amazed at what can can be accomplished. Again, for everyone's benefit.

Stop using speed as your scapegoat for the failure to address the situation properly and wisely.

[FormulaOutlaw]

BearLover: For the Record:

Yes, I list Sarasota over at the other site but actually live in Nokomis, ten miles south. Why? People know Sarasota, but no one would know where Nokomis is located. I lived in the Sarasota city limits for over 20 years graduating from Sarasota High School so I proudly call Sarasota home.

I lived in Maine for 18 years. From 91' to 96' I trailered over to "the Lake" more than 20 times. Loved boating there. I've also boated on Sebago and Moosehead in Maine. And the Atlantic Ocean.

Spent a lot of time in New Hampshire, riding motorcycles through the mountains around North Conway.

New Hampshire is a beautiful state with great people. I always enjoyed myself there and would like to continue to do so. Formula Outlaw

[Bear Lover]

Nice words Formula Outlaw, but the following quotes are by you and better display who you are and what you think of us and me. You are welcome to talk about me, but leave my children alone!

by Formula Outlaw

I just went into the first site to lurk. One rubberhead states that anyone going over 45 "isn't going that fast to get somewhere, but for the thrill of it". What in the hell is wrong with getting a thrill outta life????? They need to put that idiot in a box, put it in the ground, and throw the dirt on it.

It's bad having a thrill? That's one of the absolute stupidest moronic things I have ever read. Thank God I live down here. I couldn't take those azzholes.

______________________________________

No kidding.......going through that Forum last night it was so "Green" my computer felt like it had Kryptonite around it. This one guy who owns, according to others, the biggest dump of a marina on the lake, is juming on the "let's clean up the lake" bandwagon. Wants to put PortaPotties so the ice fisherman won't piss in the lake.

I wonder how he'll train the fish to use the PortaPotties?

I can only imagine the site of all those "weenies" whining about how only THEIR interest in the lake is important. "BearLover" is my favorite. I wonder what his/her kids look like?

[FormulaOutlaw]

Originally Posted by Bear Lover

Nice words Formula Outlaw, but the following quotes are by you and better display who you are and what you think of us and me. You are welcome to talk about me, but leave my children alone!

Yes I certainly did say that, in my forum, not yours. In your forum I was polite, courteous, and respectful.

And who I am is very simple.

One: I am someone who can speak the "King's English" and conduct myself with the utmost courtesy.


Second: I am also someone, as they say in hockey, who is not afraid to "drop the gloves and go".


What you reference to regarding your children was intended as a joke. I have no idea if you are male or female not that it matters. If you found that offensive I apologize.

My father taught me two things: stand up for myself and call it straight. I do. For someone to say that having a thrill in life is bad, is just plain sad. If you disagree with that statement, I feel sorry for you because life has passed you by.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Formula Outlaw

Yes, I list Sarasota over at the other site but actually live in Nokomis, ten miles south. Why? People know Sarasota, but no one would know where Nokomis is located.

Nokomis is a quiet town, close to wide-open waters and home to Stiletto restorations, one of the most innovative boat designs around.

Winnipesaukee is an increasingly crowded lake with a short boating season and an increasing summer-season rental environment, with more and more rooms becoming available. It is getting noisy and frantic.

Calling for "Offshore" help in fixing our speed limit poll is not helpful; however, your site did suggest that no speed limit is acceptable. Point taken.

This proposed law should have been written to read 110MPH.

I've only seen one boat that could exceed it on Winnipesaukee -- and it surely did the day I saw it pass between my dock and a stalled Hobie with four pre-teen girls on it.

As more boaters witness the excesses I've seen, the limit can be adjusted appropriately -- hopefully without help from the headlines your boats so frequently make.

Originally Posted by Bear Lover, quoting Formula Outlaw

"...I can only imagine the site of all those "weenies" whining about how only THEIR interest in the lake is important. "BearLover" is my favorite. I wonder what his/her kids look like?"

You'll remember I previously described them as the "Marine Mafia"?

Geesh. Wish I could have seen the site before they "cleaned it up!"

Originally Posted by Formula Outlaw

"The Other Site" is not the Marine Mafia,

Who to believe?

Who to believe?

[FormulaOutlaw]

Since some of you seem to enjoy stealing quotes from our "Marine Mafia" site, why don't you post the photos of one of your noble spokeperson's property. I especially like the one showing the little trailer someone is living in with the sewer line going directly into the ground. Or how about the diesel tank leaking right above the shoreline, directly into the water?

Like I said to BearLover, what I say or how I say it in my forum is my business. If you want to post it in your forum your are more than welcome to. I stand by what I said.

In your forum I have been nothing but courteous, polite, and respectful.

Do you think there is something wrong with having a thrill in life? Do you really think that is a bad thing? I'm sorry, for someone to state that having a thrill is a bad thing, that person's life has without question passed them by.
I truely hope that is not how the majority of you people feel.

[JG1222]

Boys and girls - we're officially off topic, turning a lively discussion about a specific lake-related issue into a series of personal attacks. Not to mention, not adding anything new about the actual topic in quite a few posts.

I'm not really interested in the drama of a pissing contest between the Winnipesaukee Forum and Offshores Only Forum.

I've just unsubscribed from this thread and will no longer participate. I would urge others (from whatever forum) to do the same if they feel the same way.

[upthesaukee]

Ok, enough of the bashing person vs. person, website vs. website.

Enough of the name calling.

If one doesn't like a website, don't go there...it's that simple.

You wouldn't pay to go to a movie that offends you.

We certainly don't have to do battle with one another. If we disagree with someone's viewpoint, we can courteously disagree, or we can just bite the tongue and stay out of it.

It is time to take off the boxing gloves and put this acrimonious stuff to bed. Time for peace, please!!!!

[CMG]

Obviously the 2 sides of the issue shall never meet. We all have our motives & interests in the legislation and are kidding each other that the decision will be made between 2 websites (btw, being discussed on more sites than you'd think). We all share the same hobby and too bad there needs to be a line drawn in the sand (water?, speedometer?).
I have a boat - boating for 20 years - never had a citation - an insurance claim - an accident - never caused one. When a boater (or jet ski'r) operates wrecklessly he/she should be held responsible for their actions, not those that the law protects. There should be laws in place to promote safe operation and punish offenders for the lack of. THERE ALREADYARE.
The answer may be additional law enforcement - which may mean additional Marine Patrol and funding. Punish those that offend and allow the rest of the law abiding public to enjoy a natural resource.

[Audiofn]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

BTW: I've been to the Marine Mafia site (Yes, Cal, you're right. I think I'll remove my e-mail option at our User CP now).

There are calls there to "push" our little speed-limit poll here.

They've also supposedly "removed the malicious content" from their Winnipesaukee thread; but who could tell Not me.

They've cleaned up their act some since last summer, but still have too many images...um...disrespectful-to-women...plus too much foul language for me to post the URL here. (They've added a new, exclusive, pay-per-view, um, Disrespectful-To-Women link. Tony S. would be proud).

Needless to say, they're calling up their big guns from Massachusetts -- and elsewhere, too -- to Concord. "Don't Go Acting Like an Idiot", they're counciling.

Now why would a Big-Boater site advise that?

Marine Mafia ROFLOL. You have to be kidding. Let me tell you about the "Marine Mafia" When some one over there is sick we all do what we can to help them out. Letters, Pick me ups, even taking care of their rent. Hmmm actually in the Mafia you do take care of your own so hmmm I guess that fits. Ok lets try this, when a guy ripped me off on some motors that I purchased over there he was ostricised, darn there we go again acting like a mafia. Oh well then people offered to give me, yup that is right GIVE ME very expensive parts to help me recover from being ripped off. Amazing that people in that family will do amazing things to take care of our own. Ya I guess we are like the Mafia

We are a family over there and when something like this will effect one of us we band together as a sapport system. So call in the "big guns from MA".... Why not? People from all over the world boat in Lake Winni so to say that only people from NH can vote in the poll is insane. I pick and choose when I go up to the lake. Some years I only go up once others often.

The Missing content was from myself and Pantera 1. Pantera 1 and I had a disagreement about how to handle this situation. It was not productive for the thread so Pantera 1 and myself pulled our posts. There was nothing about this site that got deleted only the part that said that you guys watch OSO.

Pictures of women? Foul Language? Ok hear is the deal with all that. First off all foul language is blocked from the site. People can use different things like zz instead of ss but there is no way that we can protect against everything. The moderators of the site have always been as hands off as possible and unlike this site there are 25,000+ memebers so it moves MUCH faster then this site does. There are also people from all over the wolds so it is much more of a melting pot then hear just based on its size and location of members. As for the "pay per view area" that was started to protect members that were under age. To make sure that people were of age the board made it Pay Per View with the requirememt of a Credit card so that the people in there were over 18. If poeople over 18 want to see nudity then that is their perogative. It also is not all nudity in there some of it is jokes that we want to keep from younger viewers of the site. As for it being degrading to women, some of the funniest posts are from women.

Now back to the debate at hand.

I would like to know what evidence that you have that shows that by having this speed limit it will help what you are talking about. I would like to know what the EXACT reason is that you think this will help. Is if safty? Is it errosion? How do you enfoce this? Radar guns do not work on boats so it will be up to the MP to learn how to judge speed on the water. Not a easy or cheap thing to do.

There are laws already on the books that cover all of this. You can not go fast near other boats, you can not go fast near shore. You are responsible to for your own wake. If you hit some one at speed you obviously broke the law...... If you go fast near shore you are breaking the law. If you are dragging butt and your wake damages some one's boat tied up to their dock then you are reponsible for it. The fact of the matter is that very few accidents in the area are due to speed.

Jon

[FormulaOutlaw]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

Marine Mafia ROFLOL. You have to be kidding. Let me tell you about the "Marine Mafia" When some one over there is sick we all do what we can to help them out. Letters, Pick me ups, even taking care of their rent. Hmmm actually in the Mafia you do take care of your own so hmmm I guess that fits. Ok lets try this, when a guy ripped me off on some motors that I purchased over there he was ostricised, darn there we go again acting like a mafia. Oh well then people offered to give me, yup that is right GIVE ME very expensive parts to help me recover from being ripped off. Amazing that people in that family will do amazing things to take care of our own. Ya I guess we are like the Mafia

We are a family over there and when something like this will effect one of us we band together as a sapport system. So call in the "big guns from MA".... Why not? People from all over the world boat in Lake Winni so to say that only people from NH can vote in the poll is insane. I pick and choose when I go up to the lake. Some years I only go up once others often.

The Missing content was from myself and Pantera 1. Pantera 1 and I had a disagreement about how to handle this situation. It was not productive for the thread so Pantera 1 and myself pulled our posts. There was nothing about this site that got deleted only the part that said that you guys watch OSO.

Pictures of women? Foul Language? Ok hear is the deal with all that. First off all foul language is blocked from the site. People can use different things like zz instead of ss but there is no way that we can protect against everything. The moderators of the site have always been as hands off as possible and unlike this site there are 25,000+ memebers so it moves MUCH faster then this site does. There are also people from all over the wolds so it is much more of a melting pot then hear just based on its size and location of members. As for the "pay per view area" that was started to protect members that were under age. To make sure that people were of age the board made it Pay Per View with the requirememt of a Credit card so that the people in there were over 18. If poeople over 18 want to see nudity then that is their perogative. It also is not all nudity in there some of it is jokes that we want to keep from younger viewers of the site. As for it being degrading to women, some of the funniest posts are from women.

Now back to the debate at hand.

I would like to know what evidence that you have that shows that by having this speed limit it will help what you are talking about. I would like to know what the EXACT reason is that you think this will help. Is if safty? Is it errosion? How do you enfoce this? Radar guns do not work on boats so it will be up to the MP to learn how to judge speed on the water. Not a easy or cheap thing to do.

There are laws already on the books that cover all of this. You can not go fast near other boats, you can not go fast near shore. You are responsible to for your own wake. If you hit some one at speed you obviously broke the law...... If you go fast near shore you are breaking the law. If you are dragging butt and your wake damages some one's boat tied up to their dock then you are reponsible for it. The fact of the matter is that very few accidents in the area are due to speed.

Jon

Here here Jon. It is "family" like you that make me extremely proud to be a member of OSO.

In this forum, in my own posts, I have been respectful. I will always defend someone's right to disagree with me. I think it's laughable that some have chosen to steal posts from "the other site" in order to try to demean respectfully written posts in this site. Is that the best you can do?????
You can't say anything to dispute what we have written here, so you try to discredit it by blurring the issue and slamming us. Well slam away. The only thing I'm interested in this Forum is standing up for the rights of everyone, even those of you who I strongly disagree with. And that is more than what you would be willing to do for me. I didn't sneak into your forum and steal posts.

Education and awareness will help your situation. Concentrate on the issue at hand, not making others who disagree with you look bad. Won't work.

[BI1]

Originally Posted by FormulaOutlaw

Here here Jon. It is "family" like you that make me extremely proud to be a member of OSO.

In this forum, in my own posts, I have been respectful. I will always defend someone's right to disagree with me. I think it's laughable that some have chosen to steal posts from "the other site" in order to try to demean respectfully written posts in this site. Is that the best you can do?????
You can't say anything to dispute what we have written here, so you try to discredit it by blurring the issue and slamming us. Well slam away. The only thing I'm interested in this Forum is standing up for the rights of everyone, even those of you who I strongly disagree with. And that is more than what you would be willing to do for me. I didn't sneak into your forum and steal posts.

Education and awareness will help your situation. Concentrate on the issue at hand, not making others who disagree with you look bad. Won't work.

Im In for a 3rd vote...Here here Jon..!well said!

[FormulaOutlaw]

Originally Posted by BI1

Im In for a 3rd vote...Here here Jon..!well said!

Thanks....