Unsafe Boating - the real issue

[b8tcaster]

I would break a rule just to have you chase me...lol.. you would hafta get FormulaOutlaw to give ya a ride just to have a chance of catching me...lol

[upthesaukee]

I don't know RG, with all the blue lights, might end up being more like a huge water wonderland KMart with specials going on all over the place. Might even get FLL out of a WallyWorld.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by JohnNH

Perhaps we should take a stand and consider approaching the legislature with some real recommendations that make sense.

Gee JohnNH, sounds like you're actually trying to accomplish something I'm going to suggest what I think are some constructive thoughts, hopefully w/o derailing your effort. Before approaching Concord with a plan I would first ask that the problem, or top X problems be identified. Saying that unsafe boaters is the problem is a little vague to me and might not be the top issue for most of us on Winni. What I'm suggesting* is that "we all" make a top 3 (or 5 or 10) list of specific items which we think are problematical. I wouldn't over-analyze these at this moment, but rather just list them. As an example if you think large cruisers are a problem, don't say large cruisers but rather the specific thing (or attribute) that they do (or have) that is the issue. An example might be large wakes are a problem. Better yet you might say rough ride due to boat wakes (large wakes, from large cruisers). Later on "we all" can further assess and analyze the root causes (though feel free to add what you think the RC is). Collecting all our lists into 1 list, "we" can then pick out which of those problems are those we can, or care to, address. Then knowing what the issues are, researching the causes and contributors "we" can brainstorm (some more) ideas as to how to solve those deemed worthy of attention (this may or may not involve Concord). If you like the results then you and your associated organizations can present, to those guys in Concord, what you think their part of the solution is. Perhaps the organizations you mention, and some others not mentioned, might do something not involving legislation. Who knows

For me, I don't think what I would deem as unsafe boating is the major issue (an issue just not my #1) facing me on Winni. I see more rude/inconsiderate/thoughtless boating than I do unsafe boating. Reducing the occurance of what I list below, examples of RITB, would greatly improve my boating experience.

Failing to "keep right" is perhaps my #1 rude action (yes folks, I'm a broken record**). Time after time I come off-plane because some bonehead is coming down the bay on the "wrong" side. I'm left with no option since I'm constrained by the shore on my starboard and left with crossing his/her path (not smart) as the other choice. Some forethought by Capt B would have placed him more out in the bay, further from shore thus allowing both he (if he would deign to follow the rules) and I to remain on-plane.

#2 rude action is people not organizing themselves into a pattern when traffic is high. I see 3 - 4 boats more or less abreast of each other, all going about the same speed impeding traffic either trying to around them or past them in the opposite direction. In those areas where other boats have to pass you (or you pass them), I wish people would look around and integrate themselves into a flow that allows others to operate too. (analogy = people walking 2 - 3 abreast down road with traffic going both ways).

#3 rude action is a variant of the former in that when converging with other boats to a spot (ie a channel ) people refuse to think/plan ahead and instead plow ahead (sometimes race) to be the first to wait. Along the way if there's not an ROW violation, there's usually some consternation as people jockey for position. (analogy = coming to toll booths)

None of the above is what I would deem unsafe nor against the written rules but reducing their number would please me (and I suspect others too). Perhaps all of the above could be lumped into 1 group titled rude boating but maybe there are solutions specific to each so I list them separately. If I were to add 2 more for a top 5 list they might be rough ride due to wakes (multiple causes) and ROW violations (people don't know or ignore the rules of the road). Lack of space at public docks might even tie with ROW violations.

What, if anything, should or could be done about the above I'll remain silent on for now. Indeed others may have things I didn't recall, or cause me to rethink my prioritization. More than likely the majority will have differing ideas as to what problem(s) should be addressed. You might wish to narrow people's inputs to only those things which they think are unsafe (your original idea I believe) or widen it to include world peace or have a list of issues in-between these 2 extremes (you make the call here). But a list of problems, to be culled in the future, is what I would suggest as a starting point for constructive action. Understanding the problems, root causes and solutions follow later.

*This is your thread, if you think I'm pushing it somewhere you'd rather not go then let me know.

**for the kids reading this, I'm a stuck & repeating CD

[gtxrider]

Valid points but how do you change the way people behave short of a 2X4 across the head to get their attention? From what I see it is not excessive speed or the size of a boat but a lack of consideration for the other person. Its the you first AFTER me mentality that seems to prevail.

I don't know how many times we have had to slow down while towing a skier or wake boarder to allow someone to cut across in front of us or were sitting picking up a fallen skier only to have a boat fly by with in the 150' limit.

How about mounting 50 calibers on the bow and allowing warning shots across the bow of a vessle that does not obey the rules? Of coarse, only rubber bullets will be allowed.

[upthesaukee]

I think the overall thoughts here have the roots to the problem, and then it boils down to noncompliance with the well-loved but oft-times abused 150 foot rule.

Eat my dust, follow my taillights, vanity plates "2fast4U", and other types of road mentalities follow over to the water. Some of it is education, some is poor judgement, and the rest probably just plain arrogance or lack of respect for others on the water.

I avoid the Weirs area by boat except before mid-june weekdays and post Labor day weekdays. It just isn't worth the hassle to try to get dock space or to go thru the channel to head down to that French restaurant Roi Burger. Some folks don't seem to understand that the No Wake area may have to extend out from the first sign, so when I slow down to get behind the boat in front of me who has slowed down to get behind the boat in front of him who has slowed... and then some yahoo(s) go flying by on a plane, or even worse with the nose way up high, the stern way down low and a wake larger than the Mount's, all the time looking at you like you and the others in front have three heads for going so slow outside a no wake area. (Mrs Bell, one of my English teachers would probably have my head for that last sentence... Sorry Mrs. B)

Solution: Gtxriders 50 cal with rubber bullets in the bow??? 105 howitzer shooting last year's Halloween pumpkin???? Or maybe Education, Common Sense, Courtesy (ever held the door open for someone else and let them go first???? gets a lot of smiles and "thanks, have a good day"), Safety for you and others, and when that fails or is not effective, Enforcement...Increased presence by the Marine Patrol, even better training of those on the lake to enforce, and respect for those who are out on the lake doing the enforcement.

Forums like this Forum (not just this thread) can be a great educational tool. I was talking to a sailboater who was talking about powerboaters cutting across his bow rather close. He said he didn't have to alter his course (not that close) but the boat could have easily gone astern as opposed to going across the bow (the boat had altered course to give way to the sailboat under sail...a good thing). When I questioned him as to what the difference was (across the bow vs passing astern), he said (and subsequent conversations with a couple of other sailboaters) that he (they) would prefer the giveway boat to pass astern if it was a choice bow vs stern. He didn't say they should alter course dramatically to pass astern, only that if it was a simple choice, choose the stern route. Has to do with the slow speed, pitching up and down in the wake. I thought and always tried to pass to the bow of a sailboat, even if it meant taking a pretty good turn to pass well out in front. Now I try to pass to the stern, and give even greater space as well. this is only the opinion of a few sailboaters, but it seemed to be consistent and I felt I learned something that isn't covered by RSA whatever. Falls under courtesy, I guess.

Oops, just a little more than my two cents this morning.

[Belmont Resident]

From some of the talk I've observed around the lake I believe the on line boater course is a complete waste of time. Everyone should be required to attend the class. I've heard all kinds of stories of people getting around the test by having someone else take it or get together in groups. Nothing is gained or learned from this. I also think there should be a refresher course every few years as rules change that many of us are never aware of.
Maybe some of these ideas could help promote a better understanding of what the problems are out there.
I'm an owner of one of those 70 mph boats who has never been pulled over of cited on the lake. I'd like to believe I've not violated any rules but there are times when you just want to distance yourself from the crowd and it's just not possible when everyone around you is traveling at headway speed.
Another idea that has been talked about is making a large no wake zone in the Wiers area. A lot of us would like to see one like the one placed in Meredith. The boats get trashed at the docks almost all day and night at the wiers.

[upthesaukee]

BR, good point on the Weirs...you can almost make a point for no wake from GI Bridge to Spindle Point and thenover to where the new Marina is going in...Well maybe a little extreme, but I certainly would like to see no wake on either side of Eagle Island, and perhaps from Flashing # 1 to over near where the new Marina will be...Very much like Merideth...I thought the Merideth one would be a little excessive until I sat back and enjoyed the views. An expanded Weirs No Wake could be just as enjoyable.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

From some of the talk I've observed around the lake I believe the on line boater course is a complete waste of time. Everyone should be required to attend the class. I also think there should be a refresher course every few years as rules change that many of us are never aware of.

Another idea that has been talked about is making a large no wake zone in the Wiers area. A lot of us would like to see one like the one placed in Meredith. The boats get trashed at the docks almost all day and night at the wiers.

BR,I wholeheartedly agree with you on the online test. The class is the only way to go. Time well spent.
A refresher course is a great idea too.
Extending the no wake zone at The Weirs would be wonderful! While they’re at it, they should consider making it a no tow zone.
What are people thinking? Towing a tube or skier over there is like playing Russian roulette!
Maybe they just don’t like their kids and want to get rid of them.

[Rinkerfam]

upthesaukee,
I never thought about passing to the stern of a sailboat, but it makes perfect sense. Thanks for the post. I always consider it an added bonus when I learn something from this forum.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

{snip} Solution: Gtxriders 50 cal with rubber bullets in the bow??? 105 howitzer shooting last year's Halloween pumpkin???? Or maybe Education, Common Sense, Courtesy (ever held the door open for someone else and let them go first???? gets a lot of smiles and "thanks, have a good day"), Safety for you and others, and when that fails or is not effective, Enforcement...Increased presence by the Marine Patrol, even better training of those on the lake to enforce, and respect for those who are out on the lake doing the enforcement. {snip}

I ran across the following in another forum and found it amusing enough that I thought I should pass it along ...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Obituary


...to mourn the passing of a beloved old friend by the name of Common Sense who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic Red Tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such value lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm and that life isn't always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not kids, are in charge). His health began to rapidly deteriorate when well intentioned but over bearing regulations were set in place.

Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student; but, could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Finally, Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, she spilled a bit in her lap, and was awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason.

He is survived by two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

[Pepper]

Oh, M-n-M thanks for sharing that! So very true, and as sad an obit as I've ever read! I'd like to have it blown up to poster size and framed!

[upthesaukee]

Great Post M-n-M


I think he also had a "cuz" named I. Can and another "cuz" I. Wanted II.

Maybe we will find out that reincarnation actually does exist, and C. S. will return, hopefully as himself (or herself)(certainly want to be P. C.).

Hopefully he will return in time for the summer.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by gtxrider

Valid points but how do you change the way people behave short of a 2X4 across the head to get their attention? From what I see it is not excessive speed or the size of a boat but a lack of consideration for the other person. Its the you first AFTER me mentality that seems to prevail.
{snip}
I don't know how many times we have had to slow down while towing a skier or wake boarder to allow someone to cut across in front of us or were sitting picking up a fallen skier only to have a boat fly by with in the 150' limit.
How about mounting 50 calibers on the bow and allowing warning shots across the bow of a vessle that does not obey the rules? Of coarse, only rubber bullets will be allowed.

I don't know the answer, yet. Perhaps there is no answer short of a 2x4 and then again who knows. There's a lot of people here on this forum and never underestimate the ability of a dedicated group. First though "we" should have some agenda of what the issues are and which "we" might choose to tackle. No doubt changing the mentality above is a tall order but what if 20% of the Capt B's changed their ways ... how about even 10% ... perfection shouldn't stand in the way of better. Then again perhaps the majority thinks "speeding" is the issue, for now I won't comment except to say let everyone have their say w/o worrying whether a solution is feasible or even possible.

ps - as for twin 50's -- I've often thought the same but now I'm thinking stealth. Warning shots, smarwning shots. How about small torpedo's, discretely dropped over the side and guided to the offending vessel Warhead just large enough to hole the sucker, not enough to cause mass distruction. I used to do missile work, torpedos aren't that much different

[gtxrider]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

I don't know the answer, yet. Perhaps there is no answer short of a 2x4 and then again who knows. There's a lot of people here on this forum and never underestimate the ability of a dedicated group. First though "we" should have some agenda of what the issues are and which "we" might choose to tackle. No doubt changing the mentality above is a tall order but what if 20% of the Capt B's changed their ways ... how about even 10% ... perfection shouldn't stand in the way of better. Then again perhaps the majority thinks "speeding" is the issue, for now I won't comment except to say let everyone have their say w/o worrying whether a solution is feasible or even possible.

ps - as for twin 50's -- I've often thought the same but now I'm thinking stealth. Warning shots, smarwning shots. How about small torpedo's, discretely dropped over the side and guided to the offending vessel Warhead just large enough to hole the sucker, not enough to cause mass distruction. I used to do missile work, torpedos aren't that much different

Ya,

A small non-explosive Tomahawk or Cruise Missile just below or at the water line might do the trick.

Of course I am a nonviolent person.