Boat Sinking?????

NoBozo · 04-28-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman671

Ever launch a boat without the plug in it? Trust me, they fill VERY quickly. I made the mistake once in a 20' Ebbtide at the Wolfeboro town docks. We barely got it back on the trailer. The engine compartment filled extremely fast from just a drain plug hole. It does not take long, and the bilge pump was not keeping up.

My point is, it does not take a large hole.

This is true. Shortly after I got my current 20' runabout, I forgot the plug. I got the boat back on the trailer without sinking.. Bilge Pump WAS running on Automatic. When I got home I got out my textbooks to see if I could calculate HOW Long it would have taken the boat to sink IF the Pump had NOT been running. The time was something like NINE Minutes...to sink with water coming in from just one... One Inch diameter drain hole.

NB

OCDACTIVE · 04-28-2010, 02:29 PM

NB, interesting story on the Ferrari.. I am not an electric engineer so I couldn't explain why that would work but from my limited experience I have seen that there are many different ways these systems (car or boat) over the years have been set up.

As an example, as many may recall, you could run your car or boat without the battery at all. You could start a boat just by jumping it off a battery or another boat and as long as the engine was running you were fine. However 2 years ago I found out the hard way that on newer boats the circuits are set up a bit different. I was out on my 17 foot runabout. The boat was going perfectly and then just stopped. I checked everything and couldn't figure it out. I thought the way it simply shut off that there was a fuel pump problem.

After getting towed back and checking everything I noticed the battery connections were a bit corroded. Never would I think that this was the problem but thought it was best to clean them regardless.... Guess what! that was it. Somehow if the ciruit was broken (due to the corrossion) on the battery terminals the boat would not run.

Needless to say I now keep them very clean and keep a wire brush in my tool box.

robmac · 04-28-2010, 03:16 PM

In my experience,engines with electronic ignitions( non points distributors ) you will need a good connection to keep the engine running. With EFI you will have some sort of controler weather a PCM,ECM etc.,those systems you need more than 12 volts,generally closer to 13.2 to run at optimal performance. As a Kid I remember running on just an altenator no battery,you won't get away with that on todays vehicles.

VtSteve · 04-28-2010, 03:39 PM

Like others have stated, thanks for the follow-up. Interesting battery setup, I know some boats actually run like this for charging, but I think it depends on the switch itself. I was going to do two batteries, until I became confused over the choices and setups.

Hard to say what was leaking and when. Possibly something was damaged when it hit the lake bottom? Who knows when it occurred. Might have been a leak near the outdrive not being properly sealed, any number of things. This is the best ending to a nearly tragic story. Everyone was rescued and nobody was hurt.

Has the boat's owner had it with boating, or did he get back up on the horse?

NoBozo · 04-28-2010, 05:38 PM

Something to consider. We all know that when the battery is dead (for whatever reason) we can Jump Start the car with another car, or battery and you are good to go as long as you don't shut off the engine UNTIL.... you have allowed the alternator enough time to RE Charge the battery. This assumes that the alternator was not the problem in the first place, and the battery just went dead because you left the lights on.

If the battery is OLD, and will no longer "hold a charge".. and is deemed Useless, you can still drive the car..... "on the alternator".. as long as you jump start the car every time. Even though the battery is useless for starting the car.. it is Still IN The Circuit.

If you were to remove the battery from the Circuit while the engine is running, and the alternator is making power as it is, you will have broken the Circuit and I think you may be at Great RISK of damaging (Frying) the alternator. The battery, even though dead, acts like a Surge Protector...and completes the Circuit. Nobody FIXES Alternators, so you replace it even if it only has a cooked Diode.

In the case of the Ferrari, the BAD alternator was Left IN the Circuit. In a different case where the Battery is BAD, or Just Dead, The BAD battery should be left in place, connected, providing a complete Circuit.

OBVIOUSLY, in either case you are going to Replace the bad part VERY SOON.

If you feel left out reading this.. NOT TO WORRY: Today's engines in boats and cars are pretty much Well Beyond the capability of even those of us who used to work on our own stuff. No more self taught "Mechanics" who could actually FIX something. Today we have "Technicians" who have to go to school at great expense, where they learn how to hook up a computer to the engine to Diagnose the problem...... then replace the defective part in it's entirety.

My boat is a 1986 with an Old GM 350 V8, ...a Real Carburetor, a Real Distributer, Real Ignition Coil, Real Spark Plug Wires. I Can.... and Do.. work on my own boat. NB
--------------------------------------------

DAM: I really got carried away this time. My wife sometimes tells me to STIFLE when I start getting technical. Time for an Adult Beverage.

POP QUIZ Tomorrow at 10:00.

Rattlesnake Guy · 04-28-2010, 05:52 PM

It may seem strange but if you drive the boat with the plug out it will actually drain. ( No I did not see this on the three stooges) My dad used to do it on our boat which did not have a bilge to drain the rain water out. The water behind creates a vacuum if you are moving. And if that does not work, just drill more holes to let the water out...

Also keep in mind that if you blow a cooling hose you can pump even more gallons per minute into the boat by keeping the boat running.

tis · 04-28-2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

It may seem strange but if you drive the boat with the plug out it will actually drain. ( No I did not see this on the three stooges) My dad used to do it on our boat which did not have a bilge to drain the rain water out. The water behind creates a vacuum if you are moving. And if that does not work, just drill more holes to let the water out...

Also keep in mind that if you blow a cooling hose you can pump even more gallons per minute into the boat by keeping the boat running.

Just don't stop the boat!!!!

Just Sold · 04-28-2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

It may seem strange but if you drive the boat with the plug out it will actually drain. ( No I did not see this on the three stooges) My dad used to do it on our boat which did not have a bilge to drain the rain water out. The water behind creates a vacuum if you are moving. And if that does not work, just drill more holes to let the water out...

Also keep in mind that if you blow a cooling hose you can pump even more gallons per minute into the boat by keeping the boat running.

Just ask John Birdsall about taking the plug out on the Puddy Tat every morning for the first run of the day or if it sat too long not being used. It was a ritual otherwise the boat would sink from the leaks.

MeEscape · 04-29-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Just ask John Birdsall about taking the plug out on the Puddy Tat every morning for the first run of the day or if it sat too long not being used. It was a ritual otherwise the boat would sink from the leaks.

Ask John about all those times he stopped BEFORE putting the plug back in!!

Just Sold · 04-29-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeEscape

Ask John about all those times he stopped BEFORE putting the plug back in!!

Yes I do remember that too!!!

VtSteve · 04-28-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

It may seem strange but if you drive the boat with the plug out it will actually drain. ( No I did not see this on the three stooges) My dad used to do it on our boat which did not have a bilge to drain the rain water out. The water behind creates a vacuum if you are moving. And if that does not work, just drill more holes to let the water out...

Also keep in mind that if you blow a cooling hose you can pump even more gallons per minute into the boat by keeping the boat running.

We used to do that on an old Glastron outboard we had. It had problems draining, and this worked fine.

Mee-n-Mac · 04-28-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VtSteve

We used to do that on an old Glastron outboard we had. It had problems draining, and this worked fine.

Same here except the Glastron didn't have problems draining so much as I was lazy and it didn't have a bilge pump. So out for ride we'd go and then I'd open up the drain plug. Since it was the lowest point on the transom and the water behind the transom was being pushed out of the way, the water in the bilge drained out at the lowest point. Much manual pumping was thus sidestepped.

LIforrelaxin · 04-28-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Same here except the Glastron didn't have problems draining so much as I was lazy and it didn't have a bilge pump. So out for ride we'd go and then I'd open up the drain plug. Since it was the lowest point on the transom and the water behind the transom was being pushed out of the way, the water in the bilge drained out at the lowest point. Much manual pumping was thus sidestepped.

This was the way we handled things on our 75 Bayliner.... for many years....pop the plug, let even a little more water in getting the boat moving..... slowly it starts going back out as you speeded up.... stick the plug back in from the inside... and you where all set.... Man outboards where nice, with a little bilge area, back at the transom..... It wasn't until the boat was 20 years old that the boat got a bilge pump.... But even then we would do it the old way to relive the memories once or twice a year.....

04-28-2010, 02:29 PM	#2
OCDACTIVE Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro Posts: 1,045 Thanks: 444 Thanked 574 Times in 178 Posts	NB, interesting story on the Ferrari.. I am not an electric engineer so I couldn't explain why that would work but from my limited experience I have seen that there are many different ways these systems (car or boat) over the years have been set up. As an example, as many may recall, you could run your car or boat without the battery at all. You could start a boat just by jumping it off a battery or another boat and as long as the engine was running you were fine. However 2 years ago I found out the hard way that on newer boats the circuits are set up a bit different. I was out on my 17 foot runabout. The boat was going perfectly and then just stopped. I checked everything and couldn't figure it out. I thought the way it simply shut off that there was a fuel pump problem. After getting towed back and checking everything I noticed the battery connections were a bit corroded. Never would I think that this was the problem but thought it was best to clean them regardless.... Guess what! that was it. Somehow if the ciruit was broken (due to the corrossion) on the battery terminals the boat would not run. Needless to say I now keep them very clean and keep a wire brush in my tool box. __________________ Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?

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04-28-2010, 03:16 PM	#3
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 950 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	In my experience,engines with electronic ignitions( non points distributors ) you will need a good connection to keep the engine running. With EFI you will have some sort of controler weather a PCM,ECM etc.,those systems you need more than 12 volts,generally closer to 13.2 to run at optimal performance. As a Kid I remember running on just an altenator no battery,you won't get away with that on todays vehicles.

04-28-2010, 03:39 PM	#4
VtSteve Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,320 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 230 Thanked 361 Times in 169 Posts	Like others have stated, thanks for the follow-up. Interesting battery setup, I know some boats actually run like this for charging, but I think it depends on the switch itself. I was going to do two batteries, until I became confused over the choices and setups. Hard to say what was leaking and when. Possibly something was damaged when it hit the lake bottom? Who knows when it occurred. Might have been a leak near the outdrive not being properly sealed, any number of things. This is the best ending to a nearly tragic story. Everyone was rescued and nobody was hurt. Has the boat's owner had it with boating, or did he get back up on the horse?

04-28-2010, 05:38 PM	#5
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	Something to consider. We all know that when the battery is dead (for whatever reason) we can Jump Start the car with another car, or battery and you are good to go as long as you don't shut off the engine UNTIL.... you have allowed the alternator enough time to RE Charge the battery. This assumes that the alternator was not the problem in the first place, and the battery just went dead because you left the lights on. If the battery is OLD, and will no longer "hold a charge".. and is deemed Useless, you can still drive the car..... "on the alternator".. as long as you jump start the car every time. Even though the battery is useless for starting the car.. it is Still IN The Circuit. If you were to remove the battery from the Circuit while the engine is running, and the alternator is making power as it is, you will have broken the Circuit and I think you may be at Great RISK of damaging (Frying) the alternator. The battery, even though dead, acts like a Surge Protector...and completes the Circuit. Nobody FIXES Alternators, so you replace it even if it only has a cooked Diode. In the case of the Ferrari, the BAD alternator was Left IN the Circuit. In a different case where the Battery is BAD, or Just Dead, The BAD battery should be left in place, connected, providing a complete Circuit. OBVIOUSLY, in either case you are going to Replace the bad part VERY SOON. If you feel left out reading this.. NOT TO WORRY: Today's engines in boats and cars are pretty much Well Beyond the capability of even those of us who used to work on our own stuff. No more self taught "Mechanics" who could actually FIX something. Today we have "Technicians" who have to go to school at great expense, where they learn how to hook up a computer to the engine to Diagnose the problem...... then replace the defective part in it's entirety. My boat is a 1986 with an Old GM 350 V8, ...a Real Carburetor, a Real Distributer, Real Ignition Coil, Real Spark Plug Wires. I Can.... and Do.. work on my own boat. NB -------------------------------------------- DAM: I really got carried away this time. My wife sometimes tells me to STIFLE when I start getting technical. Time for an Adult Beverage. POP QUIZ Tomorrow at 10:00.

04-28-2010, 05:52 PM	#6
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	It may seem strange but if you drive the boat with the plug out it will actually drain. ( No I did not see this on the three stooges) My dad used to do it on our boat which did not have a bilge to drain the rain water out. The water behind creates a vacuum if you are moving. And if that does not work, just drill more holes to let the water out... Also keep in mind that if you blow a cooling hose you can pump even more gallons per minute into the boat by keeping the boat running.