Fish & Game :(

[XCR-700]

Assuming the previous posts are accurate (and I have no reason to questions them) all I can say is what a mess!

These programs are so convoluted no wonder it costs so much to run government. But then we could debate that until the webserver crashes,,,

I stand by my comment that $53 for a fishing license is crazy, my truck registration is not that much!

If they need to generate revenue for search and rescue or wildlife management or whatever then they should be looking at better/other options.

Its easy for some of us to say I’m happy to pay for certain things like boat or snowmobile registration as these are luxury items, but fishing (excluding the organized events) is a fundamental activity and one that should be within the reach of everyone.

The people involved in the original thread post can probably well afford the license fee, so I will not attempt to argue for them, but I know plenty of other folks that might struggle to pay that amount for the privilege of dropping a line in from shore hoping to enjoy what Mother Nature gave us (not the state)

Sorry, not disparaging the fish and game people or anyone else, just making the point that fishing is not like carving a trail out of the woods and grooming it all season for our snowmobiles, its inherently a natural activity and one that should be readily within the affordability of everyone. Somewhere we have lost sight of that,,,

If you believe that fishing licenses are a reasonable requirement (and I’m sure we could debate that until everyone is PO’d) but assuming it is accepted as reasonable, then maybe a better way to deal with it would be to have tiered licenses such as; no fee or very modest fee for fishing from shore, modest fee for fishing from an unpowered or electric powered or under a certain HP powered boat, and a “full” fee for fishing from a power boat over a certain HP. At least that might better reflect the ability of some to pay what they can legitimately afford, while still allowing others to enjoy this activity without undue financial hardship.

I’m done on this one,,,

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Assuming the previous posts are accurate (and I have no reason to questions them) all I can say is what a mess!

These programs are so convoluted no wonder it costs so much to run government. But then we could debate that until the webserver crashes,,,

I stand by my comment that $53 for a fishing license is crazy, my truck registration is not that much!

If they need to generate revenue for search and rescue or wildlife management or whatever then they should be looking at better/other options.

Its easy for some of us to say I’m happy to pay for certain things like boat or snowmobile registration as these are luxury items, but fishing (excluding the organized events) is a fundamental activity and one that should be within the reach of everyone.

The people involved in the original thread post can probably well afford the license fee, so I will not attempt to argue for them, but I know plenty of other folks that might struggle to pay that amount for the privilege of dropping a line in from shore hoping to enjoy what Mother Nature gave us (not the state)

Sorry, not disparaging the fish and game people or anyone else, just making the point that fishing is not like carving a trail out of the woods and grooming it all season for our snowmobiles, its inherently a natural activity and one that should be readily within the affordability of everyone. Somewhere we have lost sight of that,,,

If you believe that fishing licenses are a reasonable requirement (and I’m sure we could debate that until everyone is PO’d) but assuming it is accepted as reasonable, then maybe a better way to deal with it would be to have tiered licenses such as; no fee or very modest fee for fishing from shore, modest fee for fishing from an unpowered or electric powered or under a certain HP powered boat, and a “full” fee for fishing from a power boat over a certain HP. At least that might better reflect the ability of some to pay what they can legitimately afford, while still allowing others to enjoy this activity without undue financial hardship.

I’m done on this one,,,

I don't think $53 (out of state) and $35.00 (in state) is a lot of money for an entire season of fishing. Skiing costs $75.00 a day! Further, fishing is the number one recreational activity in the country so lots of folks participate. If we didn't have fish and game monitoring fisheries for optimal game stock, watching for poachers, etc. the fisheries would quickly be destroyed by the public. I'm sorry to say, some oversight is needed and fish and game does an excellent job of providing that oversight.

[Pineedles]

You are soooo right secondcurve. Skiing costs $75.00 a day or more. I bet tubing is even more expensive. I only wish that NH and the rest of the NE states could adopt reciprocity, whereby any other New England State resident could get NH Resident Status for buying hunting and fishing licenses, as long their resident state gave NH people resident status too.

[Skip]

I'm also with Seconcurve and Pineneedles.

A $35 or $53 dollar license can give you countless hours of enjoyment and if you are any good (or lucky) put several nice meals on the table.

My wife and I will easily drop $50 or more dollars spending an hour having a good meal. I'll run $50+ a day just in fuel for the both of us to spend a day snowmobiling. And taking the cruiser out to the Isles of Shoals and back with a little coastal site seeing can easily set me back $100 a day in gas.

It's all in your perspective, I guess.

On another note I see that in almost all cases that the CO was professional and courteous in his duties. That is a reflection on the excellent leadership at Fish & Game, including a good friend of mine, Major Tim Acerno in Law Enforcement.

I also get to work every snowmobile season with a variety of local COs at the Youth Snowmobile Safety Classes I teach. I have great respect and deep appreciation for the jobs these greatly outnumbered professionals do.

I could go on and on, but my opinion is slanted due to the fact that I have gotten to spend so much time working with many individuals within this excellent Department.

I think that the hunting, fishing and trapping opportunities that this State offers easily justifies the costs incurred by both in and out-of-state sportsmen....

[topwater]

Very well put Skip ! Cost of a license $35 --- peace of mind === Priceless!!

[eillac@dow]

I am sure F&G does do a good job, but what about being that someone who is able to "catch a break"? I would have to go back and re-read all the posts, but if memory serves me correctly, it sounded like the "offenders" were pretty respectiveful and for the most part, somewhat harmless / innocent people just fishing / playing.

I guess I think of it like....I am going over the speed limit "a bit" on the highway, get pulled over. Would'nt it be nice to get the warning....instead of the ticket????

Don't mean to offend anyone, just stating my opinion.

[upthesaukee]

Make the license a Christmas Hannukah Birthday Anniversary Gee-I'm-glad-you're-my-kid gift. More value than a $25 gift card at Walmart, unless you are FLL .

[Argie's Wife]

If someone was pulled over for driving without a license would we also expect a break? The law is the law and we have a branch of our government that has the job to uphold the law. No one will bleed because someone was fishing without a license but... you get the idea.

Yesterday I got to go on a field trip with the youngest Argelet's class to the fish hatchery on Powder Mill Rd. in New Durham. It's run by the Fish & Game Dept. What a great set up they have there! I had no idea how much work went into stocking the lakes and the volume of stock they work with each year. It's a free tour and open every day except for Christmas and Thanksgiving. You can just walk the grounds anytime, too, without a guide. No joke. The kids got to view fish from the 'hatchling' or fry stage all the way up to a 16lb rainbow trout - it was enormous!

If you want to see where your money goes from taxes and fees, this is a good example.

[twoplustwo]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Make the license a Christmas Hannukah Birthday Anniversary Gee-I'm-glad-you're-my-kid gift. More value than a $25 gift card at Walmart, unless you are FLL .

I put my husband's license and derby ticket in his Christmas stocking every year, the cost of a fishing license is far cheaper than the cost of therapy

In this situation, I honestly think the responsibility lies with the host to inform their guest of the local laws with regard to fishing, fires, or anything else specific to the region. And in this situation, because the guest wasn't informed, I think you should pick up the cost of the ticket and not let the nice but poor and unemployed student have to pay the cost of a lack of information.

[Mink Islander]

I have been checked for my fishing license many times over the years whether ice fishing or trolling from my boat and I have ALWAYS found the F&G Officers to be extremely courteous.

I applaud them for being very rigid in issuing fines. The rules here are really really simple. If you are 16 or older, you have to have a license. If you fish without one, you are poaching. If you get caught, you will be fined or worse. I think the zero tolerance approach stands as a strong warning to everyone and probably aids in ensuring compliance. If you know you're going to get a stiff fine if caught (as this thread clearly highlights) you should think twice about fishing without a license.... Simple as that.

[riverat]

Take advantage of "Free Fishing Day" in NH Saturday June 5th http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/News...er_052810.html

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

I stand by my comment that $53 for a fishing license is crazy, my truck registration is not that much!

I snipped down your quote, but to put this in perspective. Two years ago I went to Colorado for the change to harvest a bull elk, a mule deer and threw in a cow elk tag to increase my chances. That cost $1,350.00 for three tags and that is it. It is not like it is out here where you have a general license that would allow for small game and native birds along with you hunting license, all you get is three tags for three specific animals.

Now I am not comparing an elk or mule deer to trout and bass or even whitetailed deer, but just showing that it could be worse.

[4 for Boating]

I just find it amusing that while I own a home in NH and pay taxes (considerable for that matter) I fall into the bin of non-resident for a fishing license. Not about the money, more about the principle of the matter. AND I know the standard response, “If you don’t like it move out”. However just seems silly.

Doing a quick recreational tally:
1. Fishing License $
2. Registration for the Boat $
3. Registration for the Trailer $
4. Permit for the town Dump $
a. Free pass on fee for ramp with the Dump Sticker (Yee Haw)
5. Possible future permit for swim platform?

Sure hope the gas prices stay down this summer.

[4 for Boating]

Forgot one

6. Permit to have a camp fire (Free, I think)

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

I just find it amusing that while I own a home in NH and pay taxes (considerable for that matter) I fall into the bin of non-resident for a fishing license. Not about the money, more about the principle of the matter. AND I know the standard response, “If you don’t like it move out”. However just seems silly.

Doing a quick recreational tally:
1. Fishing License $
2. Registration for the Boat $
3. Registration for the Trailer $
4. Permit for the town Dump $
a. Free pass on fee for ramp with the Dump Sticker (Yee Haw)
5. Possible future permit for swim platform?

Sure hope the gas prices stay down this summer.

That's the price you pay for NH not having a state income tax.

[4 for Boating]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

That's the price you pay for NH not having a state income tax.

I just wish I lived in NH so I could take advantage of the state income tax benefits.

Well, such is the price for an enjoyable life as they say.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by jmen24

I snipped down your quote, but to put this in perspective. Two years ago I went to Colorado for the change to harvest a bull elk, a mule deer and threw in a cow elk tag to increase my chances. That cost $1,350.00 for three tags and that is it. It is not like it is out here where you have a general license that would allow for small game and native birds along with you hunting license, all you get is three tags for three specific animals.

Now I am not comparing an elk or mule deer to trout and bass or even whitetailed deer, but just showing that it could be worse.

Like with all things there are different perspectives,,,

There is the perspective of the person who maybe should have known better, but didn’t and was clearly not an intentional offender but they got harshly penalized for their ignorance. Their perspective is, it stinks,,, (and sorry I NEVER buy the argument that ignorance of the law is no excuse. We are not all lawyers nor are we all as knowledgeable as the person who would stand judgment of us,,,) There used to be such a thing as an honest mistake, and when that mistake resulted in no injury to anyone else we had warnings not big dollar fines!

And then there is the perspective of the person who legitimately cannot afford the license,,, Consider that for a moment,,, Well you really cant! You can try, but unless you are in that position you really cant and that’s where we loose credibility when we stand on the soapbox and preach about how its “worth it” and “its money well spent” and all the other arguments that are meaningless to the person with empty pockets.

I can afford a license and most here can as well, but I also realize that there are many who are not as fortunate and that would struggle to afford a license fee of that magnitude.

Again, we are talking about a license that allows people to fish not a registration fee that covers cutting thousands of miles of trails through the woods and then pays for them to be groomed weekly or more so that we can ride our many thousand dollar snowmobiles on in comfort. Nor is this a fee that covers some inspection or oversight program to ensure public safety like food and beverage licenses. And its sure not a license in the sense of a drivers or pilots license that ensures that you are qualified to operate vehicles, it’s a fishing license!

I wont attempt to debate any of the items that some argue are the positive results of the ability of the state to collect such revenue, I simply ask you to consider that the $53 fee we are talking about it not an insignificant amount of money for many people.

Hummm,,, wasn’t I done after the last post,,,

LOL,,, sorry,,,

[RailroadJoe]

I for one know of people who can't afford to eat 3 meals a day, let alone pay for a fishing license. And they use a drop line, can't afford a rod and reel. If you can afford $1,500 for elk and other licenses, then I guess you can afford the $53.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Like with all things there are different perspectives,,,

There is the perspective of the person who maybe should have known better, but didn’t and was clearly not an intentional offender but they got harshly penalized for their ignorance. Their perspective is, it stinks,,, (and sorry I NEVER buy the argument that ignorance of the law is no excuse. We are not all lawyers nor are we all as knowledgeable as the person who would stand judgment of us,,,) There used to be such a thing as an honest mistake, and when that mistake resulted in no injury to anyone else we had warnings not big dollar fines!

And then there is the perspective of the person who legitimately cannot afford the license,,, Consider that for a moment,,, Well you really cant! You can try, but unless you are in that position you really cant and that’s where we loose credibility when we stand on the soapbox and preach about how its “worth it” and “its money well spent” and all the other arguments that are meaningless to the person with empty pockets.

I can afford a license and most here can as well, but I also realize that there are many who are not as fortunate and that would struggle to afford a license fee of that magnitude.

Again, we are talking about a license that allows people to fish not a registration fee that covers cutting thousands of miles of trails through the woods and then pays for them to be groomed weekly or more so that we can ride our many thousand dollar snowmobiles on in comfort. Nor is this a fee that covers some inspection or oversight program to ensure public safety like food and beverage licenses. And its sure not a license in the sense of a drivers or pilots license that ensures that you are qualified to operate vehicles, it’s a fishing license!

I wont attempt to debate any of the items that some argue are the positive results of the ability of the state to collect such revenue, I simply ask you to consider that the $53 fee we are talking about it not an insignificant amount of money for many people.

Hummm,,, wasn’t I done after the last post,,,

LOL,,, sorry,,,

You make a very valid point and you are right. While you are correct that $53 is a lot of money for a fishing license if you are fighting everyday to keep your head above water. I would think that if you are in that position, then you would not need to be purchasing an out of state license for fishing and take the lower resident rate license from the state you reside in. Which in NH is $35.

[Grant]

I grumble just as much when I purchase my resident license in Pennsylvania each spring. But, just like NH, it funds programs that make it possible for more people to fish in more places. It's all good.

And, just for comparison's sake, a single day of diving starts at around $16...just for the AIR. Factor in a boat trip, a charter, or admission to a dive quarry, gas, tolls and that 2-3 dive day can quickly total $50, $60, $70, $80 and more...

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by jmen24

You make a very valid point and you are right. While you are correct that $53 is a lot of money for a fishing license if you are fighting everyday to keep your head above water. I would think that if you are in that position, then you would not need to be purchasing an out of state license for fishing and take the lower resident rate license from the state you reside in. Which in NH is $35.

You are assuming that people dont live near the border and the water is on the other side,,,

The reality is that its not a big point in my world, I haven’t been into fishing for many - many years now, I just have way too many hobbies and not nearly enough time for them. If I were interested in fishing the license fee wouldn’t stop me in any way, but then I am fully employed and earn a reasonable living.

I’ll be the first to admit that mine may be a different perspective, but I don’t see how you can reasonable argue that a fishing license fee should be legitimate because a day of skiing costs X or a day on a charter boat costs Y. Again I may well be the odd man out, but I can’t help but feel like anyone who could make such a statement must live in an isolated world. Nothing wrong with that, but if you look around, you have to see that there are plenty of folks not as well off as we are and for some of them fishing is an inexpensive hobby that is fun and relaxing and in some cases it can put food on the table. So I for one don’t see fishing from shore or from a rowboat in the same class as downhill skiing or fishing for tuna from a chartered boat, or any of these other more expensive luxuries.

I hope that none of you who would argue that the $35/$53 fee is reasonable should ever find themselves unemployed or otherwise on the low end of the income spectrum, as it will surly come as shock to find that you can no longer afford the “simple things” in life,,,

OK, now I’m really done (I promise,,, this time LOL )

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

You are assuming that people dont live near the border and the water is on the other side,,,

The reality is that its not a big point in my world, I haven’t been into fishing for many - many years now, I just have way too many hobbies and not nearly enough time for them. If I were interested in fishing the license fee wouldn’t stop me in any way, but then I am fully employed and earn a reasonable living.

I’ll be the first to admit that mine may be a different perspective, but I don’t see how you can reasonable argue that a fishing license fee should be legitimate because a day of skiing costs X or a day on a charter boat costs Y. Again I may well be the odd man out, but I can’t help but feel like anyone who could make such a statement must live in an isolated world. Nothing wrong with that, but if you look around, you have to see that there are plenty of folks not as well off as we are and for some of them fishing is an inexpensive hobby that is fun and relaxing and in some cases it can put food on the table. So I for one don’t see fishing from shore or from a rowboat in the same class as downhill skiing or fishing for tuna from a chartered boat, or any of these other more expensive luxuries.

I hope that none of you who would argue that the $35/$53 fee is reasonable should ever find themselves unemployed or otherwise on the low end of the income spectrum, as it will surly come as shock to find that you can no longer afford the “simple things” in life,,,

OK, now I’m really done (I promise,,, this time LOL )

I thought you were done with this thread. poke; poke.
I hear ya and you make some good points. It is still a choice to pay the fee or not, better than a tax. At least we have input as to whether or not we want to enjoy the recreation or you can just fish from the underside of a bridge and play dumb if someone comes around.

I won't keep drawing you back, I promise.

[upthesaukee]

I believe that when I lived in Lousiana back in the 70's, you could fish with a cane pole and not have a license. For those who don't know, a cane pole is a piece of cane, thicker on one end that the other and looks a lot like bamboo. No reels, just a line tied to the thin end, and you would use bait like worms or crickets. Catch bream (sunfish) and other panfish like white perch, crappies, etc.. It was actually a lot of fun and a good way to take a kid fishing.

I could see this type of fishing in NH, and also tossing out drop lines.

But unfortunately, even with such a law, if you pick up a regular rod and reel, you better have the license or be ready to pay the fine if you get caught.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

I believe that when I lived in Lousiana back in the 70's, you could fish with a cane pole and not have a license. For those who don't know, a cane pole is a piece of cane, thicker on one end that the other and looks a lot like bamboo. No reels, just a line tied to the thin end, and you would use bait like worms or crickets. Catch bream (sunfish) and other panfish like white perch, crappies, etc.. It was actually a lot of fun and a good way to take a kid fishing.

I could see this type of fishing in NH, and also tossing out drop lines.

But unfortunately, even with such a law, if you pick up a regular rod and reel, you better have the license or be ready to pay the fine if you get caught.

UpThesaukee says it so well...
Hi Dave, reminds me when I used to take just some old bread, a string and some hooks down to the waters edge on Cape Breton Island, NS as a lad... As fast as I could ball up some bread to bate the hook, toss her in, I'd have a keeper... They "Want no sardines either!"
GameFeesh heaven!



Some life long friends have done very well fishing for Bluefin tuna off the New England coast as well!



Terry
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