Misplaced priorities. Bash the competition before fixing your product

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

The rules are: you have to buy a new "Chart" every year, because the state moves the rocks during the winter.

When I'm diving I see where the rocks were last year and where they are now... Sometimes it just a few inches or so, but the big ones are several feet and sometimes yards.

Don't get caught living in the past, get that new chart and be safe on Lake Winnipesaukee.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee Divers

The rules are: you have to buy a new "Chart" every year, because the state moves the rocks during the winter.

When I'm diving I see where the rocks were last year and where they are now... Sometimes it just a few inches or so, but the big ones are several feet and sometimes yards.

Don't get caught living in the past, get that new chart and be safe on Lake Winnipesaukee.

So you're saying that one or both of these companies re-scan and update these markings for the ENTIRE lake EVERY YEAR?

I think that if you're within "a few yards" of where a big rock is (or was) supposed to be, you're probably too close anyway.

Seems like getting a new chart every year would be a waste for the average boater, and would still be LAST years version of accurate at best anyway.

Your common sense, however, should be kept current.

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

So you're saying that one or both of these companies re-scan and update these markings for the ENTIRE lake EVERY YEAR?

I think that if you're within "a few yards" of where a big rock is (or was) supposed to be, you're probably too close anyway.

Seems like getting a new chart every year would be a waste for the average boater, and would still be LAST years version of accurate at best anyway.

Your common sense, however, should be kept current.

Don't take my word for it, get a mask and fins and check it out for yourself. Case in point: the mark off Seawall Point (entrance of Wolfeboro Harbor), marks a big rock 12' in diameter 3' below the surface. You can see where this rock has been pushed 20-30 feet, sand on the south side and small stones & rocks piled up on the north side. Clear evidence that the State has been out there moving the rocks... I would have never believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

[JMR]

I for one have significant damage from the rocks moving into my docks and breakwaters. I am sure it is going to cost a lot of $$ to fix.

[VtSteve]

usually anyway.

From the bold statements made on Bizer's web site, it would appear to be the only real choice for GPS users as well. Since both companies boast so much, and attack the other, I would think someone at each company would be in charge of getting the word out on their competitor's mistakes.

BTW, I personally let some of the things companies say go by the wayside. But when it ratchets up to the level it has, I tend to lose respect for management. I couldn't access the Duncan Press website, it appears to be down.

I read the FAQ section on Bizer's site, and the reason they started working on the chart. Commendable idea, proactive, love their ambition. It appears Bizer has done a great job in setting out to do a better job than what had already been on the market. I also love it when a small outfit is the one that did it.

But if it were my business, I'd want to project a different image than what they project. It wouldn't stop me from buying their product, but I try to be a little professional and above board in my operations. Perception and image are important down the road. I must say Skipper, your posts on this subject read exactly like parts of their web site, only nastier

Look, not knocking their product, only the delivery. Rising above the level of competition is sometimes the only way to beat them.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Well, at least Duncan Press updated their homepage.

I learned the lake in my teens with a Duncan Press chart on my stepfather's cruiser. Now that I have my own boat, I've come to trust the accuracy of the Bizer chart while my wife prefers the Duncan chart. Whatever......so far, the only time I've dinged a prop was when I didn't refer to EITHER chart!

OCD, I was wondering the same thing about the moving rocks; could it really be as simple as the winter ice moving the rocks? I'm no expert, I'm just throwing the question out there.....

[trfour]

From my many years and very enjoyable boating adventures here on our Great Lake Winnipesaukee, besides starting out from the seat of anothers, so to speak, we used Duncan's and stayed pretty dry, 'cept for an occasional on porpoise dive into on a hot summer's day to cool off...
Now, another thing that I liked about the Duncan Press map was that it also showed the prominent surrounding mountain summit heights, as I enjoyed also snowmobiling from living here year round!

I also enjoy my BiZer 6th Edition Chart Of Lake Winnipesaukee, NH.


Lets put something into prospective over here! Of all the unfortunate mishap's, neither Duncan Press, and or BiZer Maps put anyone in danger!
They try to put the rest of us in the KNOW!
Dang Rather.



Terry
________________________________________

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee Divers

Don't take my word for it, get a mask and fins and check it out for yourself. Case in point: the mark off Seawall Point (entrance of Wolfeboro Harbor), marks a big rock 12' in diameter 3' below the surface. You can see where this rock has been pushed 20-30 feet, sand on the south side and small stones & rocks piled up on the north side. Clear evidence that the State has been out there moving the rocks... I would have never believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

I could be 100% wrong. But just making a statement.. In all my years on the lake I have never seen a barge or anyone out moving rocks. You would think they would either blow them up or move only those that are posing significant hazards to major boating lanes.

Why would they be out moving a rock many times over. My own thought would be that the ice is moving them if they are that close to the surface.

Again not saying you are wrong just my own opinion.

I would hope they would be out spending money on more important things.
Just from an economic standpoint isn't it much less to mark them then to try to move them?

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I could be 100% wrong. But just making a statement.. In all my years on the lake I have never seen a barge or anyone out moving rocks. You would think they would either blow them up or move only those that are posing significant hazards to major boating lanes.

Why would they be out moving a rock many times over. My own thought would be that the ice is moving them if they are that close to the surface.

Again not saying you are wrong just my own opinion.

I would hope they would be out spending money on more important things.
Just from an economic standpoint isn't it much less to mark them then to try to move them?

Of course you don't see them... They do it in the early winter just before the lake freezes over, during the night. I mean come on man, just because you don't see Santa or the Easter Bunny doesn't mean they don't come either... They sure do at my house or have you been bad???

Get your mask out and come take a look for yourself. (I told you of one prime example).

If it not the State that’s moving them, then who??? I suppose you're going to tell me it's Mother Nature... I ask, what's she got to gain from it???

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee Divers

When I'm diving I see where the rocks were last year and where they are now... Sometimes it just a few inches or so, but the big ones are several feet and sometimes yards.

Are you pulling our leg? Rocks move? Anybody have an eplanation as to how dude they dude it?

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Are you pulling our leg? Rocks move? Anybody have an eplanation as to how dude they dude it?

Rocks Move..? Lest you people forget..and apparently some have forgotten the Shenanigans that went on on Rattlesnake this past winter. STUFF Happens that no one can explain. Just sayin. NB

[jrc]

You guys got it all wrong. The marine patrol only moves rocks to put them back in the right place. Sometimes the ice moves them and sometimes people hit them. The MP will use the GPS coordinates and move them back. So if you see a rock out of place, call the MP.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Are you pulling our leg? Rocks move? Anybody have an eplanation as to how dude they dude it?

I'm gonna say they are the fresh water, aquatic cousins of the Moving Death Valley Rocks. Yup, that they is. Never heard of the MDVR ? Whadda living under ... a ... hedge. Read all about it here. See this guy race, his name is Gonzales.



Nope the states not movin 'em, the ice ain't neither. It's da alienz. You've seen their spaceship. What more proof do ya need ?




{apologies to Al for the derailment. I now return y'all to your normal squabbling}

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

I believe the Rock Movement really started with Elvis.

And if I remember correctly, Elvis sightings around the lake have been noted on the Bizer map!

P.S. I'm not squabbling, just complaining about Duncan Press' many month efforts to debunk Bizer's claims rather than concerning themselves with posting accurate information about important matters like the area covered by the 45/25 Speed Limit and, to a lesser extent, the location of all the No Rafting Zones on their Duncan website.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

I believe the Rock Movement really started with Elvis.

Thanks Al, for the first and hopefully not the last laugh for the day.

But actually it was Roy Orbison.

[Misty Blue]

We use both Bizer and Duncan for different reasons.

Duncan has much better information on things "shoreward" of the Lake. When we have guests and they want to see where Geneiva Point is we use the Duncan. It just shows the land better.

When underway we use the Bizer. They do not worry about what is on the shore except for what is needed for navigation. It is less cluttered and easier to use. Just my 2 sents.

Misty Blue.

[Gilligan]

I think some of you have missed the Skipper's point. Both Duncan and Bizer maps will get you around the lake. The problem is the Duncan web site. They concentrate on promoting their maps and countering Bizer's comparisons. Meanwhile some details on the Duncan map web site are inaccurate and corrections are not current which includes either omitting data or listing out of date information. Duncan does not seem to be responsive when notified of errors or oversights. On the other hand there have been repeated demonstrations of how very responsive Bizer has been and wants to be. Both have supported this web site with advertising but I have not seen Duncan ads lately.

Would you like getting a ticket for speeding out in the Broads because Duncan's web does not list it as being governed by the speed limit? They list the inside of Rattlesnake Island as a speed zone but not the Broads side or the whole lake. How about a ticket or a talking to from Marine Patrol for making a 3 boat raft in a no rafting zone that is not listed as such on the Duncan map or web site? How about trying to launch at Ames Farms ramp? Duncan's map shows it as open to the public with no web page correction indicating that it is limited to guests and not currently publically available? These are not new situations.

I agree. Duncan should get their own web site in order before they try to scrutinize their competitions claims.

[VtSteve]

Without getting nit-picky, what is the real-world significance of a chart's website? While it would be nice if it was informative and totally accurate, is it not the chart or GPS map itself that is of importance?