Littoral Rights

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

... as long as they don't cross the high water mark....

Woodsy

I believe that would be the natural high-water mark. Since the lake level is artificially maintained there is room to quibble on that point. As long as my feet are wet though, I'd ignore anyone who tried to move me along.

[State]

I could really use some wise counsel. What about very occasionally using others' floating docks that aren't attached to a landowner's property?

There are a couple of people on my smaller, largely unregulated lake--at least as far as docks and boat moorings go--who treat their unattached floating docks in public waterways as if they haven't seceded any control of them whatsoever.

Yet, it seems when one puts his private property in a public setting--where anyone has a legal right to be--that he should lose some degree of control over his private property. That's not to say others can monopolize, control, or damage it.

There was a legal case just a few years ago in another state that's likely analogous. Someone put a chair on the side of a road where he liked to sit and observe traffic and such, which is public right of way, and expected that no one else could use it. When others did he attempted to have them arrested. But the case--how it became one is beyond me--ended with the court saying it's reasonable to let others have access to his chair when he's not using it. He loses some degree of control of his property based on where he placed it.

I think the same thing should apply to floating docks.

When two of my young sons asked for permission to use a neighbor's floating dock and I said yes for the first time the owner accosted me, accusing me of using her beach, where we had never set foot. She threatened to call the police the next time it occurred.

And the young boys--11 and nine--were on it for less than five minutes when no one else was using it.

It's certainly a gray area, when private property is placed in public waterways. Next year when I purchase our own floating dock, perhaps the shoes will be on the other foot. But I do think I'd be a little more lenient about the prospect of others jumping off it. Can't put fences on the water, even if they do help make for better neighbors.

[upthesaukee]

I personally would never put my neighbor in a position of legal liability for the use of their constructed or purchased floating dock.

I was brought up to stay out of other people's property unless invited in. This included cutting through neighbor's yard whose kids I played with, but were not playing there at the time. Our kids were brought up the same.

Yeah, I know, public lake, public water, but hopefully if you moor a boat on your small, basically unregulated lake, no one will climb on board and take it for a spin .

IMHO, if you want the kids to have a swim platform, buy one or make one. In the meantime, use your beach. Again, just my opinion.

[jack1706]

Slate,

Wise Counsel ?

Why would you ever put your children in that position to EVER let them on someone else's property?????????

I don't get it... get your own and teach them the same !!!!!


don't get it at all...........

[tis]

Originally Posted by State

I could really use some wise counsel. What about very occasionally using others' floating docks that aren't attached to a landowner's property?

There are a couple of people on my smaller, largely unregulated lake--at least as far as docks and boat moorings go--who treat their unattached floating docks in public waterways as if they haven't seceded any control of them whatsoever.

Yet, it seems when one puts his private property in a public setting--where anyone has a legal right to be--that he should lose some degree of control over his private property. That's not to say others can monopolize, control, or damage it.

There was a legal case just a few years ago in another state that's likely analogous. Someone put a chair on the side of a road where he liked to sit and observe traffic and such, which is public right of way, and expected that no one else could use it. When others did he attempted to have them arrested. But the case--how it became one is beyond me--ended with the court saying it's reasonable to let others have access to his chair when he's not using it. He loses some degree of control of his property based on where he placed it.

I think the same thing should apply to floating docks.

When two of my young sons asked for permission to use a neighbor's floating dock and I said yes for the first time the owner accosted me, accusing me of using her beach, where we had never set foot. She threatened to call the police the next time it occurred.

And the young boys--11 and nine--were on it for less than five minutes when no one else was using it.

It's certainly a gray area, when private property is placed in public waterways. Next year when I purchase our own floating dock, perhaps the shoes will be on the other foot. But I do think I'd be a little more lenient about the prospect of others jumping off it. Can't put fences on the water, even if they do help make for better neighbors.

I think it takes a lot of nerve to use someone elses swim raft. In today's world no on dares to let anyone on their property for fear of getting sued. And it seems it is usually those who think they have a right to use other's property who would be the first ones to sue when something happened.

[Bear Islander]

State, you are in the wrong here. Your neighbors raft, boat, dock, car, canoe etc. are private property. Stay off them or ask permission. If they say no, stay off them period.

If your neighbors car is parked on a public street can you get in it and honk the horn. NO!

If one of your children cut a foot on your neighbors raft, would you look for compensation? I'm betting yes.

It may be legal to use a neighbors beach if you stay below the high water mark. But it would be rude. And just because something is legal doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. After all, adultery is legal.

[rick35]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

But it would be rude. And just because something is legal doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

Very well said!

[SAMIAM]

Someone should start a thread about all the good neigbors out there.Our neigbors are seasonal on both sides and we are year round except for a couple of Florida trips.Even though we aren't close social friends, we get along great and share everything.We use their dock when we have company and they (and the doggies) are welcome to use our beach.They are from the city so their dogs LOVE our lawn and they religiously follow with the scooper.
All of us pitch in if we see one another struggling with a boat,landscaping job,lost pet or come up short with a bottle of wine for company.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread...just another view from one of the lucky ones.

[jack1706]

Samiam--

we are the same way exactly....I think most of the lakefront is don't you?

But when the question is asked..I need wise council, sounds to me like that may not be the case here. We communicate with our neighbors on all those issues and it is never an issue..infact come on over and stay awhile too,is always what happens...

An unknown on my raft will definitely be questioned.. I quite frankly have never had this happen or seen it... but

I am sure those people are out there (obviously!)

When my bike is on public ways... I certainly don't expect someone to use it ( & what return It???) I think not..

by the way that would be a great new thread... because we have great people in Winter Harbor & all around the Lake !!


Aren't we all here for the same reason?

[tis]

We are VERY close friends with all our neighbors yet we wouldn't dream of using each other's docks etc. without asking if we needed to. I feel so lucky to have the friends/neighbors that we have.

[trfour]

We always let close friends/neighbors use our beach. They kept it spotless and an eye on everything, year round including motorcycle weeks. They would even help out putting the docks in and out. I left a drag there during the summer and would bring the tractor down during the enenings to rake out the sand castles that the children would build during the day. We've never had a problem there in over 18 years!
Whats that old saying about a little sugar goes a Long Way?... ... Well anyway, it's still working Great for us!

Look out for your neighbors when you can!