New PROPOSED Waterfront Property Milfoil "FEE"

[LIforrelaxin]

So as I breezed through this thread I though about many things... First is that this is a problem which no one wants to own. Second there seems to be a lot of controversy over who should pay for the work that is needed.

As a lake shore owner, I have no problem if they want to add a fee onto my taxes to help fight the milfoil problem. I benefit from a clean unaffected lake more then anyone else. My property value stays high, and I end up keeping a nice piece of lake front property where I can walk out on the dock and see the bottom. However I need to know that this money collected can't be moved in the towns or states budget to be used for anything else. I don't support calling this a Tax... it should be a use fee... just as it is added on to the boat registration as a fee. Now how to decided on how much that fee should be that is hard to nail down... but I would think making it a fixed percentage of one property value would be the best way...a 700,000 lake front home paying say a .01 percent fee would be 70 dollars. In the grand scheme of things that is peanuts. However people need to make sure that a law like this is draft properly... As the money needs to be tied to exactly what it is collected for, and can't be shifted to anything else. It also needs to have clause to protect people from an ever increasing fee. Examples, well lets see... after the initial implementation, the fee can only be raised by a factor of X, per year, up to a maximum of Y, for the life of the program.

Once again this is an issue where we the people really need to stick up for ourselves. Sure I am willing to help fund this type of project. But the money needs to be tied up appropriately so it doesn't get re-allocated. Additionally the amount of money that I can be expected to pay needs to be capped. Are these rule out of line? I don't think so... we have yearly contribution limits on all sorts of things, medical out of pocket expenses, which will soon be governed by the government thanks to the Heath Care reform, along with this goes life time maximum clauses... People need to stop thinking of the government and the laws as untouchable... Anything is possible. People just need to put pressure on the politicians.... If enough thought is put into something there can be effective legislation, that keeps the governments hands tied, so they don't get carried away with what they are doing... But if people don't speak up, and act out, we as the American public has currently done, loose control of our government....

[Slickcraft]

The quality of the lake matters to many including: lakeshore property owners, boaters, fishermen, local tourist related businesses, tourists themselves and towns with lakeshore property. Milfoil is here and it is a real threat to the quality of the lake.

Control will take considerable effort on a long term basis and this will require real funding. But guess what; no one wants to pay for it.

Most town governments around the lake are starting to budget for milfoil control and there is some ad-hoc coordination of efforts.

As property owners in Alton and on Welch Island my wife and I have a stake in the quality of the lake. I suspect that most forum members also have a stake in the quality of the lake.

I don’t know what the best overall funding solution is but it is appropriate to have a public dialog as to various approaches.

[VitaBene]

As others have already said- this is not a waterfront issue alone. Neither of our 2 places is on the water, but I will gladly help pay to control this nasty plant.

[John A. Birdsall]

I am curious, if moultonborough does this chemical cleaning of milfoil, should not the whole lake or shoreline around the lake be done all at the same time?
it seems to me that we have been fighting this problem for 10-15 years and we are not gaining any ground the way we have been doing it. I understand that Alton Bay near the bandstand was done this fall. Now with the flow of water going to Paugus Bay does that take the chemicals or the milfoil that way.

[AC2717]

Here is one major problem
the town's control the land and the lake is controlled by the State

you cannot really make it a fee on something because people could choose not to do what the fee would be on, such as boat registration and the like

Millfoil is a problem and yes as a waterfront owner I do not want it taking over the lake.

How bout a review of the state's budget as ALL the Lakes provide income for the state and towns as far as toursim goes. Just as a city like Boston works with the State (and yes I cannot believe I am saying this but it is true) to Preserve city's landmarks to bring in the toursim. Yes that comes from taxes and what not, but the point is how its done

So, since I cannot vote in NH and my voice can fall on deaf ears, can someone please propose a budget review and allocation of funds. I do not know about the rest of you, but when I have an added expense I review spending as a whole and see if I can afford it and then where I can cut on other ends, I just simply cannot go to the bank (the taxpayers) and take more out

Sorry off the soap box now

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

I am curious, if moultonborough does this chemical cleaning of milfoil, should not the whole lake or shoreline around the lake be done all at the same time?
it seems to me that we have been fighting this problem for 10-15 years and we are not gaining any ground the way we have been doing it. I understand that Alton Bay near the bandstand was done this fall. Now with the flow of water going to Paugus Bay does that take the chemicals or the milfoil that way.

The area treated in M'boro was "upstream" from the rest of the lake but there is still concern that boaters can import it from other lakes or other parts of Winni. In addition, a lot of milfoil areas were not yet treated. The problem was knocked down, but constant treatment will be needed. Funding can't be seen as a one time thing. Like snowplowing, it must become part of ongoing town operations. Yes, the problem has been fought for 10-15 years, but support comes and goes. Imagine if you weeded your garden this year, but did not next year. The weeds would grow again. Until the water quality improves (phosphorus and conductivity down), milfoil will find a way to spread. Constant weeding will help, but water quality improvement will help more. There are areas of the lake where strands of milfoil drift into, but do not take. If the milfoil infested areas need to return to pristine levels of quality, the problem will largely go away. However - fixing water quality is a lot harder and more expensive than constant weeding.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

If the milfoil infested areas need to return to pristine levels of quality, the problem will largely go away. However - fixing water quality is a lot harder and more expensive than constant weeding.

1) Milfoil grows best where there is an abundance of siltation—and siltation is the result of "land disturbance", coupled with structures and "impervious surfaces".

2) With every NW wind, I frequently see milfoil strands drifting past my dock: I ask myself, "Where did that strand come from?"

3) As a result of keeping my property in natural forest—entirely free of lawn—I'm expected to pay for the land-abuse of Moultonborough developers?

Originally Posted by Winniboater81

I say boost the registration fees on all the boats. This will not only effect the lake front property owners, but it will also effect the yahoos...tax the weekend warriors, they are the ones that introduced milfoil to the lake, make them pay to clean it up!!!!!

The Lake has yahoos?

Originally Posted by tummyman

However, all funds collected must be dedicated to milfoil removal.

This year, funds collected for boat registrations didn't fare all that well.

[MJM]

So on one hand, waterfront owners are told they do not "own the lake", so if someone wants to anchor 2ft in front of their house, there's nothing they can do.

But on the other hand, waterfront owners would solely bear the expense of maintaining the water.

Pick one people, you can't have it both ways!

[hemlock]

The State of NH preferred alternative for getting rid of milfoil is to use 2,4 D amine herbicide. The label on this product says DANGER and that it is toxic to aquatic invertebrates. I am an island lakefront property owner in an area where milfoil is rampant. My water comes from the lake and I am exposed to this poison against my will.
There is such hypocrisy from DES on this issue.
On the one hand under the shoreland protection act they have taken almost all my property rights in the name of water protection. On the other hand they actively support dumping herbicide with a danger label directly into the lake. This year they dumped more of this stuff that ever before. Now there is a proposal to make me pay to have this done?
Wow!

[Coolbreeze]

Why not post a tax on the boat registration rather than the proprty owners?

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by hemlock

The State of NH preferred alternative for getting rid of milfoil is to use 2,4 D amine herbicide. The label on this product says DANGER and that it is toxic to aquatic invertebrates. I am an island lakefront property owner in an area where milfoil is rampant. My water comes from the lake and I am exposed to this poison against my will.
There is such hypocrisy from DES on this issue.
On the one hand under the shoreland protection act they have taken almost all my property rights in the name of water protection. On the other hand they actively support dumping herbicide with a danger label directly into the lake. This year they dumped more of this stuff that ever before. Now there is a proposal to make me pay to have this done?
Wow!

The product has been proven to be safe. You are exposed to countless chemicals in your daily life but choose to focus on this one. What suggestions do you have to make the problem better?

The State is trying to do its best to control milfoil. All I hear is people complain about who should pay for it, how it should be used, etc. Stop whining folks I am getting a headache.

[MAXUM]

Here's a free idea, rid the lake of all NWZ's. That stuff loves to grow in areas that are nice and calm.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Here's a free idea, rid the lake of all NWZ's. That stuff loves to grow in areas that are nice and calm.

The IQ of the average forum member appears to be following a declining trend.

[phoenix]

eradicating milfoil helps everyone who uses the lake. Certainly the waterfront owner but also boaters, fishermen,swimmers, kyackers, and anyone who wants a better lake. Also since eliminating milfoil will help towns with shorelines to me if most will benefit then most should pay which falls on the towns or state. Moultonboro recognized this which is why they have a multi year plan to handle thsisproblem - kodos on them

[Rattlesnake Guy]

And don't forget the New Hampshire taxpayers who benefit from all the tax dollars that go into the State coffers helping to reduce our burden by visitors to the lakes region. It is a shared liability and benefit. Needs to be a shared burden.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall

I am curious, if moultonborough does this chemical cleaning of milfoil, should not the whole lake or shoreline around the lake be done all at the same time?
it seems to me that we have been fighting this problem for 10-15 years and we are not gaining any ground the way we have been doing it. I understand that Alton Bay near the bandstand was done this fall. Now with the flow of water going to Paugus Bay does that take the chemicals or the milfoil that way.

So for the best overall results yes there is no doubt the entire shoreline should be treated at once. But of course this is never very feasible for many reasons. Having lived in Vt. on lake Champlain I can tell you this, be happy they are treating it, even if it isn't the entire lake at once. There has been infestation on Champlain for years... and unfortunately as the hot spots developed, they where not dealt with... Everyone waited for a overall plan for the lake. As a result the lake has some serious problems in certain locations, that right now they are having trouble control even with localized plans.

Don't worry that the complete shoreline isn't getting treated. Although the Towns and states to treat specific Area's so that the generalized issue don't continue to get worse...

Now someone also mentioned about state vs. local responsibility... Depending on how the rules and regulations of the state are written, it is most likely up to the towns to deal with there individual shorelines, and come up with treatment plans. These plans then get reviewed at the state level, and are granted state funding where it is prudent. Don't be fooled into thinking that the state will take care of it... It is the towns that have to make sure it gets taken care off, just like the state roads going through towns... the towns still take care of a lot of them... even though technically it is a state rd... like Rt25 etc.... the towns are just able to apply for grants and additional funding to offset the costs.

[Onshore]

All I'm going to say at this point is that if there was a lake association or some kind of local action group that wanted to approach DES about developing a long term, lake wide, action plan for addressing the milfoil issues on Winnipesaukee in a well thought out and coordinated manner, it would be a wonderful thing...

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by shore things

All I'm going to say at this point is that if there was a lake association or some kind of local action group that wanted to approach DES about developing a long term, lake wide, action plan for addressing the milfoil issues on Winnipesaukee in a well thought out and coordinated manner, it would be a wonderful thing...

The Lake Winnipesaukee Watershed Association is a coordinated effort to develop a management plan for long term protection of the quality of the lake. My wife and I have volunteered to collect weekly water quality samples May through Oct, one small part of the overall process.
I don't know if LWWA plans on an active role in coordinating milfoil control but I will try to find out.
http://www.winnipesaukee.org/

[Onshore]

Slickcraft, that would be great. Do you need contact info for any of us here at DES?

[Winniboater81]

I own lakefront property in Alton and have since 1948. I pay $9,800 in taxes a year. I bought the property in 1948 for $15,000. The quality of the lake and the times I have on the lake have decreased, and the taxes increase. I say boost the registration fees on all the boats. This will not only effect the lake front property owners, but it will also effect the yahoos from MA who come up Friday night, drive around like they own the lake, and then pack up and leave Sunday. These are the people that are hurting our lake, not the lake front property owners. We already pay enough in taxes, tax the weekend warriors, they are the ones that introduced milfoil to the lake, make them pay to clean it up!!!!!

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Winniboater81

I own lakefront property in Alton and have since 1948. I pay $9,800 in taxes a year. I bought the property in 1948 for $15,000. The quality of the lake and the times I have on the lake have decreased, and the taxes increase. I say boost the registration fees on all the boats. This will not only effect the lake front property owners, but it will also effect the yahoos from MA who come up Friday night, drive around like they own the lake, and then pack up and leave Sunday. These are the people that are hurting our lake, not the lake front property owners. We already pay enough in taxes, tax the weekend warriors, they are the ones that introduced milfoil to the lake, make them pay to clean it up!!!!!

You sound like a bitter person. I hope I never find myself in your situation. Happy Thanksgiving!

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by Winniboater81

I own lakefront property in Alton and have since 1948. I pay $9,800 in taxes a year. I bought the property in 1948 for $15,000. The quality of the lake and the times I have on the lake have decreased, and the taxes increase. I say boost the registration fees on all the boats. This will not only effect the lake front property owners, but it will also effect the yahoos from MA who come up Friday night, drive around like they own the lake, and then pack up and leave Sunday. These are the people that are hurting our lake, not the lake front property owners. We already pay enough in taxes, tax the weekend warriors, they are the ones that introduced milfoil to the lake, make them pay to clean it up!!!!!

I am sympathetic to your tax bill. But think of how high it would be if the out of state property owners did not help shoulder the burden without using the schools and most of the other town services. The problem is that spending increases faster than our incomes increase. Then if we are Lucky we get to retire on a fixed income. But the increases continue to go up.

We all have to figure out how to manage our budgets. When the town, state and feds learns to do the same painful process they will have a few dollars left over for milfoil control from the billions we all pay each year.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by shore things

Slickcraft, that would be great. Do you need contact info for any of us here at DES?

I suppose I should have guessed that you were at DES. Anyway I'll see what I can find out and if I need any specific contact info will send you a PM.

[Merrymeeting]

Many suggestions for different fee increases and uses of the fees.

Here's a novel idea. How about we figure out how to deal with the problem without another fee? I'm sure there is a fee in there somewhere that was originally put in place 20 years ago to deal with a similar issue. The issue was resolved but the fee remains. This is how we keep digging ourselves in deeper and deeper.

I am a waterfront owner and very concerned about milfoil. But I don't want to see yet another fee added to deal with it. The bureaucracy is big enough already. It's time to trim it somewhere else if we want to add another service.

[tis]

What a great post, Merrymeeting! My thoughts exactly!

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

So as I breezed through this thread I though about many things... First is that this is a problem which no one wants to own. Second there seems to be a lot of controversy over who should pay for the work that is needed.

As a lake shore owner, I have no problem if they want to add a fee onto my taxes to help fight the milfoil problem. I benefit from a clean unaffected lake more then anyone else. My property value stays high, and I end up keeping a nice piece of lake front property where I can walk out on the dock and see the bottom. However I need to know that this money collected can't be moved in the towns or states budget to be used for anything else. I don't support calling this a Tax... it should be a use fee... just as it is added on to the boat registration as a fee. Now how to decided on how much that fee should be that is hard to nail down... but I would think making it a fixed percentage of one property value would be the best way...a 700,000 lake front home paying say a .01 percent fee would be 70 dollars. In the grand scheme of things that is peanuts. However people need to make sure that a law like this is draft properly... As the money needs to be tied to exactly what it is collected for, and can't be shifted to anything else. It also needs to have clause to protect people from an ever increasing fee. Examples, well lets see... after the initial implementation, the fee can only be raised by a factor of X, per year, up to a maximum of Y, for the life of the program.

Once again this is an issue where we the people really need to stick up for ourselves. Sure I am willing to help fund this type of project. But the money needs to be tied up appropriately so it doesn't get re-allocated. Additionally the amount of money that I can be expected to pay needs to be capped. Are these rule out of line? I don't think so... we have yearly contribution limits on all sorts of things, medical out of pocket expenses, which will soon be governed by the government thanks to the Heath Care reform, along with this goes life time maximum clauses... People need to stop thinking of the government and the laws as untouchable... Anything is possible. People just need to put pressure on the politicians.... If enough thought is put into something there can be effective legislation, that keeps the governments hands tied, so they don't get carried away with what they are doing... But if people don't speak up, and act out, we as the American public has currently done, loose control of our government....

Very well said.