New Boaters Organization

[Fat Jack]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

This is about a forum for ALL boaters to voice their concerns.

Jon,
This is also a forum about Winnipesaukee issues. But everytime a GFBL issue comes up anywhere, all you guys from all over the country band together like a swarm of bees. You did it in Tampa. You did it in Ohio. You flood our local forum with your nation-wide opinions. Lake Winnipesaukee is a NH citizen owned water body, and WE, the citizens of NH, should be the only ones deciding its fate, not people from Fort Lauderdale, New Jersey, Canada, Maine, and Massachusetts. By my observation, the VAST majority of these offshore boats bear out-of-NH registrations. NH does not even collect a registration fee from them. We don't even have a count on them. They gas up their 300-gallon tanks on the way up through NJ and leave its MTBE in our water. They buy their weekend's beer and tequila in Connecticut and leave its resulting urine in our water. Except for all the money they spend at the Naswa, they contribute zilch to our economy. They scare away the peaceful tourists that we really want. They scare families off the lake. This is just the best and most convenient playground they could find, and we are maintaining it for them at our expense. They care nothing about this lake except that it has always tolerated their behavior and looked the other way under the mistaken belief that all this was financially beneficial to us. They leave their trash behind knowing we will have it all cleaned up for them by the next weekend. We who really own this lake, the real right-owners here, must dodge them every weekend and tie our boats to our docks to stay out of their way.
Its just time for NH to take back our lake. These guys can just as easily trailer their boats up to a different playground every weekend like Lake George (oh ya, that one is off limits to them now too).
You and Custie can say all you want that "its not the boats, its the behavior", but if you truly cared about restoring order to this lake, you'd agree that something simply has to be done, and this does not target the boats, it targets the behavior. The 150 foot rule and the noise law are jokes. We need to deter these yahoos from trailering their boats up here every weekend. You are either one of them or you are against them. If you don't need to go 70 MPH to enjoy the lake as you say, if you truly care about the rights of others, if you truly care about Lake Winnipesaukee, then stop siding with those **** and hiding behind the "live free or die" argument, and work with the rest of us to fix the huge problem that has destroyed this lake for so many of us...crazily high speeds and the noise that goes hand-in-hand with it. Once the speeding is gone, the idiots will go, the noise they make will go, the danger that they "statistically" have nothing to do with will go, and the good people of NH, like me and supposedly you, can enjoy the lake again in some peace. Would you and Custie honestly feel comfortable sending your parents out in a 21-foot boat to take your kids to get an ice cream on this lake on a July weekend? C'mon!

[codeman671]

Wow, what a statement. Funny thing is that even though I am against a speed limit and do not want to push the GFBL off the lake I do have to agree with some of Fat Jack's statements on this one. I am a property owner on the lake and a NH resident. I do get irritated with people who do not keep their money where they play however I doubt that people would fill their tanks far south of NH with 300 gallons of fuel and trailer the extra 1800-2000lbs of extra weight up instead of filling here. If they do then they probably just spent more gas to get it here and their ignorance shines. I think that is is foolish not to have boats used in NH registered in NH, we should be making money on this and charging out of state rates just like they do with snowmobiles. I think that canning the reciprocity in snowmobile registrations is a good thing.

As far as people from Mass and Maine having a say, well they should. I would guess that there is a large population of properties owned around the lake are owned by people from Mass and Maine, particularly Mass.

I do get frustrated with the noise but honestly find Harleys and other loud bikes to be more irritating and reckless. I would love to see a sound comparison of bikes and GFBL's by one of the more techno-related posters on this site. How many bike accident related deaths happen in the lakes region per year compared to fatalities from boat accidents?

I do not care for the influx of tourists but it does help our economy. I like our state and personally hate it when I have to go south of the border. The last time I made a M-hole statement on here I got thrashed on so I will refrain. There are good people and bad people from south of the border, unfortunately the lakes region seems to pick up a lot of the bad ones who are reckless on land and water. And are just plain rude...

Where I differ is that I do still say it is the people, not the boats. If a 36' baja has an exhaust system that diverts under water instead of out the hull and cruises the lake at 35mph people will still complain.

[winnilaker]

Jack, can you believe it, we agree on something. I don't feel comfortable sending my family out on 21 ft boat on 4th of July weekend. Now my reasons are different.

Too many boats
Too many inexperience boaters
Too many big boats that cause real big wakes, I think the Sophie has the biggest wake, but all the cabin cruisers can also cause big wakes. And when they come through eagle and governors and you have 10 boats trying to fit through from both directions, its down right scary.

I agree with your out of staters comments to some degree.

But in each of those occasions, it not just the GBFL crowd

So yes I agree something has to be done, but I don't support targeting 1 type of boater to cut off first. Because what's next, let's ban of jetskis, then what's after that, ban cabin cruisers and so on and so on..... until the only type of boat left is the type you drive.

Should we limit the number of boats on the lake?
Should we have stricker education?
Should cabin cruisers AND GBLFs be forced to go headway when going between certian areas of the lake that are more dangerous then others.

Can't you see my point? Are you afraid of GBFL boaters only? Was there an occasion and location where it happened? I have to believe that you would be afraid of getting hit by an out of stater doing 40 mph in a 22ft bow rider as well. Or does that not hurt as much, so you can live with it.

I've seen the "You Guys" comment in more than one of your posts. For the record, I'm not one of those guys. I have never threatened anyone and would be P*****D off if any of my friends or members of NHRBA would do that. Check my other site, you obviously know about, I'm about charity and preserving rights for all to enjoy the lake. And do some more research about me personally and see what kind of person I am. There are a few folks around the lake that know me.

Custie

[winnilaker]

Jack,
This may be hard, but in your next post. Make a statement about facts and real situations without calling people idiots, yahoos or whatever else Don had to edit out. There has to be something other than your personal feelings toward that type of boater inorder for any of us to make progress in this discussion. Because idiots, yahoos and ***** can apply to all types of boaters.

The 'Hack' comment was about your intelligent ability to research information. I read through all my posts, I don't believe I negatively called anyone anything, I used sacrasm once. But if I did, shame on me.

And if anyone can read through my posts and determine that what I want to accomplish from NHRBA is not for the best interests for all types of boaters to enjoy the lake, please post and let me know, so that I can clarify it.

I do have one confession, NHRBA was designed for all New hampshire boaters not just lake Winnipesaukee, so if that's a conflict, let me know and we'll work through how to change its charter such that Lake Winnipesaukee boaters are well represented when voting on Lake Winnipesaukee issues.

And lastly I don't want NHRBA to be a GFBL focused membership. If you all feel it would be impossible to create an organization that can have constructive communication to solve real boating issues, then I will send all the membership fees back, kill NHRBA and then just use my own network of boating friends to push and fight my personal objectives.

Later,
Custie

p.s. And after I thought about, I don't want your address or who you are. I have received too many emails wanting to know who this Fat Jack guy is and how he is really making them mad and I don't want the burden on my shoulders.

[Fat Jack]

Originally Posted by winnilaker

There has to be something other than your personal feelings toward that type of boater in order for any of us to make progress in this discussion.

Again, It is not the boats or the boaters...IT IS THE BEHAVIOR. I thought you guys were being insincere, but now I feel that you just do not believe me when I say that.
I honestly only have two complaints about conditions on this lake these days (besides lawns); high speeds and loud noise. I have a problem with these whether they eminate from a GFBL boat , from a canoe, or from the Mount. I have the same problem with them whether the driver is a 25 year old man or an eighty year old lady. It is not the boats or the boaters...IT IS THE BEHAVIOR.
The noise problem is never going to be solved by any direct attempt to do so. No noise ordinance is ever going to be truly enforceable or properly applied. We can only hope that some other factor causes the noise to go away. In fact, I believe that the noise statutes only got through without this type of battle because the loud crowd knew it was going to be a joke and was never really going to have an impact on them. They were right.
But high speed is the thing that can and must be controlled to some reasonable degree.
Barrett's contention that "no speed is too high for this lake under the right conditions" did nothing except discredit him and show him for the bag man he really is. His position that marine speed limits are unenforceable just shows his incompetence. Why are other enforcement agencies around the country able to adequately enforce speed limits on hundreds of other lakes while his crew is not able to do so here? Is he admitting that is "hire the college kid for the summer" program does not work?
Of course there is a speed that is too high for this lake. But what is it? What speed lets go-fast people have a REASONABLE degree of fun while letting the vast majority of the citizens still feel safe? I think 45 is a good start. You might feel it is too low. But no progress is going to be made as long as you take the wild position that no speed is too high. At least WE have brought something to the table for discussion.
And controlling speed will inadvertantly and beneficially control the noise problem too. The boats that are designed or altered for speed are the same boats that are making all of the noise. One does not need to be anti-GFBL biased to make that observation. Canoes are not making the noise on this lake. Once the speeding stops, the noise will be gone.
I grew up in the city and moved here to escape all the noise. The noise law is a joke, does not work, and can never be made to work. Lake George Marine Patrol says their identical and unenforcable noise statute became moot once their speed limit started because the noise went away with the speed. Think about it...ALL of the boat noise comes from the boats that are either speeding or accelerating towards high speed. Any boat going 45 or lower (even GFBL's) is going to be reasonably quiet. HB162 will thereby virtually eliminate Winnipesaukee's noise problems.
THE GFBL boats are still using Lake George according to their MP (although I don't understand why), but they are going slower and are quieter. I appreciate a beautiful sports car, a fine Harley, and a sleek cigarette boat. Being against high speed and loud noise does not require that you hate these things. You can love nice guns while hating violence. This is not about the boats or the people who drive them. It is about the SPEED the boats are going on this inland freshwater spring-fed mountian lake, and the amount of NOISE they are making as they do so, period.
It is easy to side against the speed limit and pretend you are doing so because you feel it is the first step towards an assault on your personal freedoms. You can join Barrett and pretend that you believe the other laws are sufficient and the immeasurable 150 foot rule is more enforceable than a speed limit. But if you sincerely look at the situation on this lake these days with open and unbiased eyes, and if you truly care about this lake and the majority of the people who would like to enjoy it, you have to agree that the time has come for a reasonable speed limit, and you cannot seriously contend that this bill is about anything other than boats that are going TOO FAST for this lake.
You, Custie, seem to have the influence and intelligence to make this lake better, but you are siding with a bunch of people who feel that lawlessness is bliss. Laws and limitations are not always bad. Rights are not always taken away by laws. Sometimes they are enforced and strengthened, as they would be if we could all work together to come up with a reasonable speed limit for this lake instead of denying that one is needed.

[Von Bongo]

Originally Posted by Fat Jack

Once the speeding stops, the noise will be gone.

Interesting comments, my 22 foot stingray will do 60 MPH and with its alpha drive and through prop exhaust makes very little noise. I fail to see a connection of speed and excessive noise. If you want to connect something connect unmuffled exhaust with noise not speed. 2 different issues. I can tell you the Hendrick motor in Jeff Gordon’s Nextel cup car makes a lot of noise at 40 MPH a lot more than my pickup. Main (not only) difference? Muffler. If a boat is traveling at 100 MPH but only produce say 82dbs does that solve your noise problem? Can you live with that?

Playing devils advocate, you don't drive a moped on the interstate. Maybe larger bodies of water need to be reserved for larger or faster boats and smaller lakes for smaller boats. I know numerous smaller lakes here in NE that limit HP or even require electric motors, but it isn't the larger lakes. OR maybe the lake should be closed at certain times of the day to powered vessels of any kind. Then the canoes and sailboats can have their time on it and the power sports people can have their time. Lake of the Ozarks has no daytime speed limit but does at night. In the 2 1/2 years I lived there most problems we had were with alcohol and rental boats/jet ski operators not knowing the rules of the road. On guy parked his 40ft sea ray on the Porta Cima Golf course in the middle of the night. He wasn’t speeding, just drinking and a couple of gals that were not his wife onboard distracted him. Does that mean we ban all Sea-Rays because he parked his boat on the 14th green? Nope we sent him to jail for being an idiot, I am sure his wife also inflicted some monetary pain on him too.

Kind of funny, several years ago the Nebraska Game and Parks were fielding numerous complaints that there were too many canoes on our 22 miles of scenic Niobrara river. Get that too many Canoes!!! Not noise, to many frigging canoes!!!! Now they are complaining that canoes are no longer a problem but inner tube are??? I still go and canoe it twice a year but now we do it on a Sunday instead of Saturday. That way we avoid the crowed. They can still have their fun and we still have ours.

If you want to limit what happens on your lake maybe you should live on a private lake? I am not trying to be an ass either, I considered a lot at Lake Panorama in Central Iowa which is a large private lake. you have to own property to use it, check it out

http://www.lakepanorama.org/memberinfo.html

If you live on a public lake then you should understand that the public gets to use it how they see fit. I don't relish the bass boats at 5:30 AM running up and down the lake but that is part of living on a PUBLIC body of water. If I want to get away from the public I go out to the farm and sit in the middle of the 200 acres and it's real peaceful.

But hey those thoughts are just an opinion..and you know what they say....

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Von Bongo

...Playing devils advocate, you don't drive a moped on the interstate.

And you don’t drive Indy race cars on the Interstate either.

Maybe larger bodies of water need to be reserved for larger or faster boats and smaller lakes for smaller boats. I know numerous smaller lakes here in NE that limit HP or even require electric motors, but it isn't the larger lakes.

There are other large lakes with hp or speed limits. What about the two largest bodies of water in Massachusetts? Quabbin Reservoir has a 25 hp limit and boating is prohibited completely on Wachusett Reservoir. What about Squam Lake (the second largest lake in NH) with a 40 MPH speed limit? What about Lake George, NY, which has a 45MPH speed limit?

If you want to limit what happens on your lake maybe you should live on a private lake? I am not trying to be an ass either, I considered a lot at Lake Panorama in Central Iowa which is a large private lake.

In NH any lake over 10 acres is a public body of water, so that would only leave very small lakes as possible private ones. That’s pretty small for any type of boating. (I cover 15 to 20 miles in my kayak in 3 or 4 hours of paddling.)

If you live on a public lake then you should understand that the public gets to use it how they see fit. I don't relish the bass boats at 5:30 AM running up and down the lake but that is part of living on a PUBLIC body of water. If I want to get away from the public I go out to the farm and sit in the middle of the 200 acres and it's real peaceful.

Having regulations on a lake is not an attempt to “get away from the public”. It’s done so that everyone (or at least as many as possible) can safely enjoy using the lake together. Laws are made (or rather should be made) for the good of the majority.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

What about Lake George, NY, which has a 25MPH speed limit?[/size][/font]

I don't know about the other facts , but this is wrong. It's 45 and it's smaller than Winnipesaukee

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Cal

I don't know about the other facts , but this is wrong. It's 45 and it's smaller than Winnipesaukee

Sorry, that was a typo, which I've since corrected. Yes, Lake George is smaller than Winni, but it's still a large lake with a speed limit, which is what we were discussing. My other facts are correct . . . look them up, rather than try to discredit my entire post, do to one typing error.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

And you don’t drive Indy race cars on the Interstate either.

Perhaps not, but you can drive a Corvette C5/C6, Porsche 911, Ferrari F430, etc (all are capable of speeds in excess of 175). An Indy car isn't street legal. A typical performance boat passes all NH requirements.

Your point?

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

And you don’t drive Indy race cars on the Interstate either.

Perhaps not, but you can drive a Corvette C5/C6, Porsche 911, Ferrari F430, etc (all are capable of speeds in excess of 175). An Indy car isn't street legal. A typical performance boat passes all NH requirements.

Your point?

My point was that comparing mopeds on the Interstate to smaller or slower boats on a large lake, isn't all that different from comparing performance boats to an Indy race cars.

And Interstates do have a speed limit, so those performance cars can't legally drive at their top speeds of 175 mph, can they? Notice that the speed limits don't prevent performance cars from driving on them either, any more than a speed limit on Winni would prevent performance boats from still using the lake.

You guys are the ones comparing Winni to the Interstate, even though there's really no valid comparison between the two. Hello? ... one is for high speed transportation and the other is for recreation.

I'm just standing up for paddlers, trying to balance things out here a bit, as this thread has become very one-sided. And my kayak is ocean capable ... it's not a short recreational kayak, but is a 15.5' long, narrow, expensive sea kayak, designed for large bodies of water. I follow the rules, have the proper clothing and equipment, and know how to navagate, using charts and a deck-mounted compass. I resent having my kayak compared to a moped.

[restauranteer]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

...And Interstates do have a speed limit...Notice that the speed limits don't prevent ... any more than a speed limit on Winni.... Hello? ... one is for high speed

...I follow the rules...

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the webmaster close the thread on speed limits?

Remember, the speed limit bill (HB 162) never even made it out of committee. There will be no more talk of this subject in the legislature until/or at least next year.

Perhaps we should follow their lead and move on from the subject too???

Anyway, your appetite may vary....so....

Bon apetit!

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by restauranteer

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the webmaster close the thread on speed limits?

Hey, I didn't start the speed limit issue in this thread, but was just responding to other posts.

SO GET OFF MY CASE! And stop trying to make me look bad by quoting a chopped up version of my post.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Pardon, but I don't believe I mentioned you, or anyone else. I was referring to the general trend of this thread and others.

If you re-read my post, I said, "I find it interesting that just about any boating discussion turns into a debate over speed limits on the lake. "

No names were mentioned. Geez, why do you take it personally?

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

Pardon, but I don't believe I mentioned you, or anyone else. I was referring to the general trend of this thread and others.

If you re-read my post, I said, "It find it interesting that just about any boating discussion turns into a debate over speed limits on the lake. "

No names were mentioned. Geez, why do you take it personally?

I was responding only to restauranteer's post, where he quoted me. If you re-read my post, you would see that I quoted him and not you. His post was obviously directed at me.

[Von Bongo]

Evanstar your points are well taken and I don't have a dog in this fight, heck you can ban everything from the lake that doesn't have feathers and webbed feet and it will not bother me.

My points really aren't about speed but tolerance to allow people with different ideas of recreation to enjoy a large lake. And also that speed and noise are not as closely related as some lead you to believe, you can address one or the other separately.

In my world (see post #1 for definition of opinion) with large bodies of water, due to the lack of them, I personally think you have to be more tolerant to the general publics usage. Again, I rarely keep my canoe at the cabin at Lake of the Ozarks because that just isn't the place for it. At one time when my parents when down there in the late 30's and early 40's it was but not anymore unless you want to rise early and be on and off the lake before the crowds.

Finally, if a speed limit is imposed (separate from noise) I sell my 38 foot 12,000 lb boat and plod around the lake at 30 MPH in my 39 foot sea ray 30,000 lb boat and we start the discussions about wakes and how cruisers and diesel smoke are killing the lake. Large boat wakes (and condo development) are the issue we are dealing with at Lake of the Ozarks. Some want a size limit, some a displacement limit, me, I just bought a boat that allows me to go out on the lake no matter how rough rather than try to restrict how other people enjoy the lake. If they do ban boats over a certian size, I won't support it but still no problem I'll downsize or bring one of the other boats and sit it on the lift.

I try to respect everyone opinion and go by the platnum rule...

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Von Bongo

Evanstar your points are well taken and I don't have a dog in this fight, heck you can ban everything from the lake that doesn't have feathers and webbed feet and it will not bother me.

I'm not for banning anyone from the lake. I've stated that before, several times. I have nothing against power boats, as long as they obey the boating rules and that they respect my right to use the lake also.

My points really aren't about speed but tolerance to allow people with different ideas of recreation to enjoy a large lake. And also that speed and noise are not as closely related as some lead you to believe, you can address one or the other separately.

How much tolerance am I as a kayaker supposed to have? Am I to just accept that I can't use the main lake, for fear of being run over? All I've tried to say is that I have just as much right to safely use the main lake as anyone. But that right is being taken away. Have I even once complained about noise? I don't like excessive noise, but it's my safety and my right to use the lake that I'm more concerned about.

... I just bought a boat that allows me to go out on the lake no matter how rough rather than try to restrict how other people enjoy the lake.

I also just "bought a boat that allows me to go out on the lake no matter how rough". But my new boat is a 15.5' sea kayak.

[PROPELLER]

Evenstar, you can't compare Quabbin & Wachusett resevoirs to a lake like Winni, Squam or any other lake that allows public recreation. Quabbin has always had those restrictions ever since the 4 towns were evacuated & the resevoir was created(its manmade) The same is probably true for Wachusett. Cochickewick in North Andover only allows fishing from shore, Massabesic in Auburn allows boating & fishing but no swimming.

The restrictions on those bodies of water & many others are for different reasons other than what we are discussing here. They were never intended to be used for public recreation. That is not a good or fair comparison.

Just because some other lake has a speed limit or some kind of restrictions does not mean it was right, was needed or that it can be compared to Winni. Every lake has its own individual characteristics. Maybe Lake George had a small but powerful group of individuals with disproportionate influence & didn't like GFBL boats & they were successful at getting a speed limit passed. Does not mean it was needed or that it should have passed. Just because Lake Goerge passed a speed limit law does not mean the NH legislature shoudl also. Also Lake George is very narrow & does not have the wide expanse we have in the Broads & this could contribute to making it very congested.

I know I will have alot of disagreement here but in my opinion Winni is not nearly as congested as many posters would lead you to believe. Its my opinion that some people will purposely say congestion is heavy to lend support to the speed limit bill. But I also believe some do not purposely do this, its just that everyones definition of congested is not the same.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

It find it interesting that just about any boating discussion turns into a debate over speed limits on the lake. In reality, we currently have speed limits (albeit subjective ones). Either people are unaware, or choose to be so.

It is unlawfull to:

Overtake another vessel at a distance and speed such that your wake causes danger or damage.

No vessel shall be operated within New Hampshire in a reckless or negligent manner. Examples of reckless or careless operation include: Excessive speed in regulated or congested areas ...

If the above we consistantly enforced, a speed limit would seem redundant.

Just my .02

[PROPELLER]

Paugus, I agree with you. However, in my opinion the reason that is not good enough has been alluded to in the numerous threads & posts on this subject, albeit indirectly.

I believe the speed limit supporters do not like the noise of the GFBL boats & they are not happy with the current noise ordinances so they are using the speed limit bill to hopefully deter owners of GFBL boats from operating on Winni. I guess they figure if they can not go faster than 45 mph they will go somewhere else. However, since enforcement will be a nightmare for various & obvious reasons GFBL owners will probably still come to Winni knowing they will probably not get caught going 60-65 or what ever speed over 45 mph & on the rare occasion they do they will either fight the ticket or pay it, no big deal.

Secondly, I believe the speed limit supporters do not think GFBL boats belong on a pristine, beautiful MT lake. It represents in their mind all the things they came to Winni to get away from. They just don't like them.

I also believe that when people read about all the alleged close calls that are posted here(I believe this is exaggerated) they automatically think that a GFBL boat was involved. There had to be a GFBL boat involved, look how fast they go. When in reality that is not the case.

I think its more about these issues & maybe others than about speed.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Propeller,

Guess you're probably be right. I'm sure it runs much deeper than speed limits.

Interesting though, I can't recall any proposed legislation to reduce the DB level down from the current 82 DB (less than motorcycles). New Hampshire, by the way, has one of the lowest DB requirements of any state. Many states are either at 90 DB or have no limit.

NASBLA see page 25 of the report (interesting reading).

Funny how antique / classic boats (which I love by the way), with straight through exhaust (which typically are allowed to run at 86 DB), sound nostalgic, a performance boat sounds loud

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

Evenstar, you can't compare Quabbin & Wachusett resevoirs to a lake like Winni, Squam or any other lake that allows public recreation. ... The restrictions on those bodies of water & many others are for different reasons other than what we are discussing here. They were never intended to be used for public recreation. That is not a good or fair comparison.

My post was a reply only to what Von Bongo wrote

"Maybe larger bodies of water need to be reserved for larger or faster boats and smaller lakes for smaller boats. I know numerous smaller lakes here in NE that limit HP or even require electric motors, but it isn't the larger lakes."

I was just pointing out that there really are other large lakes that do have regulations on hp and/or speed. I do understand that every lake is unique, which is why there are different regulations for different lakes.

I do find it interesting that the two largest lakes in MA have very strick regulations on their use (for whatever reason), yet some of the people who make the most noise against any additional regulations on Winni are from that same state.

[restauranteer]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

I do find it interesting that the two largest lakes in MA have very strick regulations on their use (for whatever reason), yet some of the people who make the most noise against any additional regulations on Winni are from that same state.

Perhaps, but I do find it interesting that some of the people making the most noise for additional regulations have never been to Winni:

From your second forum post April 2, 2005:

Originally Posted by Evenstar

The thing is that I haven't even been on Winni yet, but I do plan on exploring it some this year in my kayak. In fact I just got my Bizer chart this morning.

I do believe you are sincere in your opinions, but perhaps a few visits to the Lake this summer and an actual observation of what the true problems may be could lead to a more informed opinion....

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Evenstar, my apologies. The heat must be getting to me

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

Evenstar, my apologies. The heat must be getting to me

Apology accepted.

[PROPELLER]

Evenstar, did you read my post responding to your comparison of Quabbin & Wachusett resevoir? NO, it is not interesting that those large bodies of water are heavily restricted. Quabbin was manmade in the 1930's specically to provide drinking water to the greater Boston area. There was never any inten tion to use it for a wide range of recreational purposes. Thats true of most drinking water resevoirs that I am familiar with, they are heavily restricted not because of issues like we have at Winni but because they used for completely different purposes.

And NO, your right to use any part of Winni is not being taken away. You may choose not to exercise that right because YOU may not feel safe. That does not mean you are not safe, only that you perceive it is not safe. You already stated in your first post you did not feel safe on a lake that does have a speed limit, so what is to be done next?

[GWC...]

You may find yourself a day late and a dollar short...

[BroadHopper]

I'm joining the NHRBA. Does anyone know when these hearings take place?
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4393470/detail.html

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

Evenstar, did you read my post responding to your comparison of Quabbin & Wachusett resevoir? NO, it is not interesting that those large bodies of water are heavily restricted. Quabbin was manmade in the 1930's specically to provide drinking water to the greater Boston area. There was never any inten tion to use it for a wide range of recreational purposes. Thats true of most drinking water resevoirs that I am familiar with, they are heavily restricted not because of issues like we have at Winni but because they used for completely different purposes.

Yes, I did read your post. I was just trying to avoid an argument, but since you insist, here are some actual facts: Lake Mead and Lake Powell are the two largest man made reservoirs in the United States and they providing drinking water for the residents of Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles. Yet they are also used for recreational boating. Dillon Reservoir is also man made and is the largest water storage facility in the Denver Water system. It also allows recreational boating. Lake McConaughy is a manmade reservoir and the largest body of water in the state of Nebraska. And it also allows recreational boating. The list goes on and on. Modesto Reservoir, Loch Lomond Reservoir in CA, and Buffalo Bill Reservoir in WY are more examples.

In fact forty-five states permit recreational boating use on drinking water lakes, rivers and reservoirs. So, the fact is that most man made reservoirs actually do allow recreational boating. You just have to have a more expensive water treatment filtering system to use the water for drinking. And some states only permit boats using MTBE free fuel.

And NO, your right to use any part of Winni is not being taken away. You may choose not to exercise that right because YOU may not feel safe. That does not mean you are not safe, only that you perceive it is not safe. You already stated in your first post you did not feel safe on a lake that does have a speed limit, so what is to be done next?

Is it safe to paddle my kayak across a lake where boats travel back and forth at 75 mph and faster? And some of you on this forum have even admitted that you have trouble seeing kayaks. If you can’t see me until you get close to me, can you guarantee that you’ll be able to avoid me, when you are traveling at 110 feet per second? No you can’t. So this is not something that is just perceived as being unsafe. It is unsafe. And if I cannot safely use the main lake, my rights to kayaking on the main lake have been essentially taken away.

[restauranteer]

Originally Posted by Von Bongo

...Kind of funny, several years ago the Nebraska Game and Parks were fielding numerous complaints that there were too many canoes on our 22 miles of scenic Niobrara river. Get that too many Canoes!!!

Well Von, you don't have to go that far to make your point. As a matter of fact, every summer just a few miles to the northeast of the big Lake we have a huge boating problem. GFBLs out of control? Loud exhausts at 3 am? Nope, just raucous canoers & tubers raising hell all night long on the Saco River between Conway & Fryeberg. Police being called in all hours of the day & night, and not a single internal combustion engine anywhere to be found!

That's it! Its not the boat, its the operators....gee, where have we heard that before???

[SIKSUKR]

Custie,I don't know you personally but I do recieve your newsletter e-mails on a regular basis.I've never replied to any of them but I am now moved to in the future.It has appeared you have the best interest in ALL boaters from what I've seen and always worked towards raising money for charities.I believe that when you give someone a platform to speak from their true colors come shining through.That has been confirmed here by a few regular posters I won't single out but I think most know who they are.Sometimes however,I thinks it's best to not engage with these types who love to use "the end of the world" scare tactics to get their point across.It's really hard,but I've tried to stay out of the back and forth arguing on this forum because even if it's well written,it can come off with me looking like a jerk for participating in the mess.Stick to your principles and consider me a supporter of winnilakers. SS