Ban kids from restaurants?

[Grant]

If the kids are bad enough to be banned, then the parents are also.

My wife and I have raised four kids (now ages 22, 20, 20 & 16), and NEVER had an issue with behavior in an eating establishment -- whether is was Burger King or a fine restaurant. In fact, I can remember MANY times when we had all four out -- at very young ages -- and were approached by patrons who commented about how well behaved the children were.

The secret? There isn't one. It's called discipline. Respect. Instilling it in children is a primary responsibility of parenting. If you've failed on that front, then leave the kids at home when you go out to eat. Same with air travel, movie theatres, malls, libraries, concerts, etc.

Caveat: I do remember one Lake-related incident with my kids. We took them all on the Mount Washington for the long cruise. One of my twin daughters (probably 2 or 3 at the time) was definitely in a mood that day, and threw a full-blown, lying-on-the-deck-kicking, red-faced tantrum. I forget how we squelched it, but I remember thinking about telling her that I would toss her in the Lake if she didn't stop.

A photo from that fateful day...still cracks me up.

[sa meredith]

Grant...not really sure how to take your post...other than you standing up, taking a great big bow, and saying, "my wife and I got it right!"
Way to pat yourself on the back.
Telling people who may have fussy, fidgety, or possibly hyper-active kids, that they have failed??!! Shame on you.
Who appointed you to set the standard? Some may say 4 young children (say, 11 and under) sitting quietly, patienly, and calmly at a table, together, for any period of time, is indeed "abnormal".
As kids (3 of us) we were the "abnormal" ones, as mom ruled with an iron fist when we got home (yes, it means what it means) so we were quiet, out of fear ...but I'm quite certain those are no longer excepted methods of raising children.
Seriously, children are children...sometimes, as like adults, they get into foul moods, and don't know what to do with the emotion.
Maybe you didn't mean to sound harsh, and a bit snobby with your post...but it reads that way.
By the way...your daughter pulled a freak show on a public boat, in front strangers??? Her parents must be complete failures.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Grant...not really sure how to take your post...other than you standing up, taking a great big bow, and saying, "my wife and I got it right!"
Way to pat yourself on the back.
Telling people who may have fussy, fidgety, or possibly hyper-active kids, that they have failed??!! Shame on you.
Who appointed you to set the standard? Some may say 4 young children (say, 11 and under) sitting quietly, patienly, and calmly at a table, together, for any period of time, is indeed "abnormal".
As kids (3 of us) we were the "abnormal" ones, as mom ruled with an iron fist when we got home (yes, it means what it means) so we were quiet, out of fear ...but I'm quite certain those are no longer excepted methods of raising children.
Seriously, children are children...sometimes, as like adults, they get into foul moods, and don't know what to do with the emotion.
Maybe you didn't mean to sound harsh, and a bit snobby with your post...but it reads that way.
By the way...your daughter pulled a freak show on a public boat, in front strangers??? Her parents must be complete failures.

Ha! Setting the standard? Hardly. Patting myself on the back? Not quite. Just pointing out that it's not all that hard. As a parent, I'm as flawed as anyone...trust me. There's no handbook, and if there were, I wouldn't have read it. And, yes, children are children -- and to expect them to act otherwise is a waste of time. But to say that a large (and growing) percentage of parents today fall short when it comes to instilling the most basic sense of respect in their kids is not a stretch. Take a look around. Ask any teacher.

The basic premise of the thread -- banning kids from restaurants -- is patently absurd. But that point was raised for a reason. Think about it.

And the anecdote about the tantrum on the Mount? Merely an illustration that even a self-congratulatory snob like myself, who's raised potentially abnormal, Stepford-zombie offspring, has had a kid melt down. (Also an attempt to keep the post Lake-oriented, in keeping with Forum protocol.) And it wasn't the only time...far from it. My point: Incidents involving obnoxious, un-disciplined kids are way more prevalent today...and it's more often than not a reflection of lax parenting (AKA the "no longer excepted [sic] methods"). Your mileage may vary.

So, call me old school. Opinionated. I won't deny it, and don't mean to hold myself up as a model. As a kid, I was far from angelic, but I am grateful to my parents for not only instilling a real sense of discipline and respect in us, but giving us the latitude to make (and learn from) our own mistakes along the way. I've tried to do the same with my own kids.

[upthesaukee]

When our kids were young, we would come up to the lake, and after a day on the boat, Mom would say let's go out to eat. So it was off to the Schooner in Lakeport (now Avery's), Hickory Stick, Cider Press, Woodshed, etc.. The kids (girl and boy) were usually pretty good. Every once in a while, a little sidewards kick of a leg, or an "inadvertent" poke with an elbow would elicit that "look from Dad" or a "knock it off from Mom".

Most trying time was at the Schooner. My parents knew the owner (Roland and his wife, whose name escapes me at the moment). Roland would see we were there and come out and take the kids into the kitchen. After a while, the kids would come out followed shortly by our meal. Shortly thereafter, it was "eat your supper or no dessert". Come to find out, Roland used to feed the kids in the kitchen, and they would come out stuffed. Thanks Roland.

Maybe the whole idea is being looked at wrong. Don't ban kids, they don't know any better. Ban the parents who don't care who their kids are bothering other diners!

While hanging with friends yesterday, we were reminded of a stay at the Sagamore in Lake George. Their very fine dining restaurant did not allow children under the age of 12 in it, and the beautiful sitting area and lounge off the lobby, over looking the lake, had a sign stating "Well behaved children only". Maybe this is a way to go.

[Pineedles]

Good for you Grant! Gotta say that you got it right 110%. Unfortunately, "It's all about the children" today. I think sa is very upset about the Red Sox, and he is mad at the world today.

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by Grant

The secret? There isn't one. It's called discipline. Respect. Instilling it in children is a primary responsibility of parenting. If you've failed on that front, then leave the kids at home when you go out to eat.

A photo from that fateful day...still cracks me up.

And that picture put a big smile on my face!

[SAMIAM]

I'd say Grant got it right and you do deserve a pat on the back for teaching your kids that there are consequences for their actions.
Many of today's parents actually reward their kids with loving attention after they have done something bad......thinking they can reason with them as if they were an adults. They soon realize that acting up gets them a lot of great face time with mom or dad......they aren't stupid.
I don't suggest that you beat your kid with a baseball bat, but spankings did the trick for 800 years.
Fear is not a bad emotion....it keeps even us adults out of trouble.

[sa meredith]

Wow...my point is being missed by quite a bit...
I certainly agree that far too many parents have failed to instill respect, and the need to act appropriatly in public, in young children. Some actually just let the kids do their own thing and ignore.
However...
I thought it strange that someone would post that they "NEVER had a issue with behavior..." and that "...if you've failed at that, leave the kids at home". Just a terrible thing to write. Grant himself said his kid pulled a side way nutty on the Mount (which is weird, he said he never had a single incident...maybe his child used their mulligan?)
My point is simply this...many well behaved, well mannered children, have their off day. They're kids! Who knows what you're going to get from day to day? To see a child act up in a restaraunt, and think their parents have "failed" at teaching discipline, is bit too judgemental for me. At times, kids will be kids. But I got the feeling that what Grant was saying, was..."well, not MY kids. We did it right" ...and thought that a bit weird.
That's all.
As for other remarks...yep, the Sox have me in wonderful frame of mind. ARE...YOU...FREAKIN'...KIDDING...ME???!!!

And I agree about kids needing a good smack from time to time. We got them regularly...and, as a result learned ma and dad meant business, when they told us to smarten up.
I eat at the VK regularly, because they don't tolerate nonsense there. The wait staff frequently smack youngsters upside the head...and it keeps the peace very nicely.

[fpartri497]

the wait staff frequently slaps kids up side the head? sounds like a law suit to me

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by fpartri497

the wait staff frequently slaps kids up side the head? sounds like a law suit to me

Pease tell me you didn't think I was serious?
The VK staff is top notch...you can't find a better crew of team players.

[fpartri497]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Pease tell me you didn't think I was serious?
The VK staff is top notch...you can't find a better crew of team players.

Ya got me there, I fell for that one

[laketrout]

If the kid(s) are well behaved who cares! I took 4 of my kids to Lago's and Church landing all behaved well, bring things for them to do.

It is also all about $$$. Many businesses are suffering- remember we are in the Great Recession or have people forgot. Portfolios and Real Estate has "Shrunk$$". Low or High end If I own a restaurant I want the business and I want return business. Do people know the failure rate of restaurants, it is pretty high & add to that a crap economy.

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by laketrout

... Do people know the failure rate of restaurants, it is pretty high & add to that a crap economy.

You do need to be careful about turning business away. Many years ago, a former GF and I went to a small new restaraunt in Amherst. We did not realise this place was going with the "Formal Dining" style and while we were dressed nice, we definitly did not meet their standard. Since we were at the door before we saw the small sign advising something about 'formal wear required,' and it didn't look crowded, we went in anyway.

The place was 1/2 to 2/3's empty but the hostess (perhaps thinking she had a polite phrasing for throwing us out) advised us that 'all space was reserved for the evening and they could not accomodate us today.' Unfortunatly she said it loud enough for everyone in the dining room heard and most looked over and apeared to be uncomfortable.

This was the 3rd or 4th place to try "Formal Dining" in this area. None of them lasted 6 months. You do take a risk for being too exclusive. Even if the people who visit you meet your target market they may wish to dine out at times that they don't. That is a lot of missed business.

I'm glad I'm only a customer and just get to pick where I want to go, not need to guess what atmosphere potential diners are looking for today.

[ChocolateGypsy]

Originally Posted by WakeboardMom

Funniest thing ever...(or not)....I was in El Mariachi in Moultonborough on Friday night with my husband. We walked in at 8:40...kinda late if you have kids. We sat at the bar, and I could see two tables in the corner that he couldn't see.
SNIP
Little boy was not falling asleep at 8:45. Instead he was standing on his chair, making friends with the folks at the next table, who were four adults between the ages of thirty and fifty-ish. I thought those folks were being good sports, smiling at the little boy and not getting visibly annoyed.
SNIP
This little vignette kind of illustrates why some restaurants might impose a ban on kids. I love kids; I had 4 and now I'm on to grandchildren. But at 8:30 - 9:00 on a Friday night, I'm looking to wind down from my crazy week. LOL...you'll find me at the bar.

The Mariachi has a children's menu? If not, I'm a little surprised at what the parents were willing to spend on the childrens' dinners. Then again, most restaurants in that part of the lake are closed by 8pm, except the Mariachi... which turns into a bit of a "pub" after dark. Might not have been the wisest choice, but not many choices if they just got into town.

I don't believe in banning children, but some parents seem to have a problem with judgement. If the lakes region had a strip joint, I believe there are some folks who would try to bring their kids in there as well! (And then holler "constitutional right" when they're told to leave.)

I see children whose parents are oblivious to the child causing problems with service, becoming a hazard and getting into things they shouldn't be touching. (Liability!!) Unless it is a restaurant which caters to families, believe me, restaurants don't want these customers -- they order the least expensive items, the waitstaff have to double as babysitters, it's extra work to bus their tables (since these kids tend to make a huge mess) and the children ruin the evening for the other guests with their screaming and rampaging. (Hey! They went there to get away from that kind of stuff!)

You'd think this would be a worst-case scenario, but unfortunately I see it a lot. So is it any wonder that some restaurants want to ban children? If you don't work in a restaurant, you probably don't see it enough for it to bother you... unless you are trying to propose to your girlfriend and the kid at the next table is having a meltdown... maybe you'd think twice.

[ChocolateGypsy]

I believe I have the "constitutional right" to start discussing perverted sex acts in public with my friends whenever your kid leans over into our booth to eavesdrop.

::wink, wink::

[SIKSUKR]

Wow. I can act like a bratty kid for that conversation!

[SteveA]

Interesting approach.

[NoBozo]

One notice I have seen: Unattended Children Will Be Retained and Sold as Slaves... NB

[trfour]

Being from a family of eleven children , we never went to an unattended restaurant!

Back in the early 50's when we came into town for some food and or drink, the restaurants loved us, tips and all! The drink of the day was Hires Root Beer. Now, them 5 cent Root beers was awful Good though!! Course, this was all before hi-res tv and cable that charge what ever they can get away with today!

You can still picture this in an old B&W photo by Life Magazine of us'all go'in west in 1952.
Love, Terry
___________________________

[Kamper]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

One notice I have seen: Unattended Children Will Be Retained and Sold as Slaves... NB

I'd shop there. Twice!

[ChocolateGypsy]

Darn, SteveA! You beat me to it!

Make sure there's plenty of sugar in that espresso... that'll teach those inattentive parents!

[ChocolateGypsy]

This is a good example of why people would want children banned from a restaurant (or any public place for that matter.) This may be offensive to some people, so if the moderator wants to remove it, I'll understand.

it's an award winning European commercial (i.e. banned from airing in the US) but it clearly makes it's point.

http://youtu.be/Fitxofd7kOA

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by fpartri497

the wait staff frequently slaps kids up side the head? sounds like a law suit to me

Nope, just the out of control adults get smacked.

[MarkinNH]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Nope, just the out of control adults get smacked.

Guilty as charged