Lowe's Home Improvement Stores - NH

[diz]

Originally Posted by songkrai

This is an absurd conclusion. If any fund is underfunded then funds were not placed into the find as was supposed to be or funds were removed.

The reality is that the state governments were and are 'stealing' the pension funds to pay other bills.


If you are of the mind that there are too many state employees that is another argument. Run for office on that platform. Or support candidates that avow to lower or cut the number of state employees. You can start with the state police. Public works employees. Department of Environmental Services. Cut them. Go ahead.

Don't cut the number of secretaries and administrative assistants at the NH Supreme Court though as that has already been tried by former Governor Benson. He did just that. And justice was delayed and all were hired back.

To claim that the state pension fund is underfunded because of the number of state employees is just plain absurd. The fund may be underfunded but it is the state legislature that agreed to raid the monies and use those pension funds for other reasons.

Actually, it's not absurd. Toad is dead on. I am an elected official in my (Mass.) town and one of the major issues we face is the unfunded liability of municipal employees' pensions and health care. Collective bargaining agreements by the town's unions have left us with a large and somewhat difficult to project future costs. While pension costs can be roughly projected, health care costs cannot. This makes our task of setting budgets and tax rates year-to-year very difficult. In fact, we recently voted to create a trust fund to help us lend stability to our resident's tax bill in the face of ever rising health care costs. I'm sure this post will draw the usual Mass./NH comments but, in my opinion, the fundamental issue is the same in both states.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by diz

. . . . the unfunded liability of municipal employees' pensions and health care. Collective bargaining agreements by the town's unions have left us with a large and somewhat difficult to project future costs. While pension costs can be roughly projected, health care costs cannot.

Well now you are mixing up underfunded state pensions and health care costs. Two completely different items.

And a misunderstanding of what a collective bargaining agreement is.

A collective bargain agreement is an agreement, in this case, between the town and the towns employees. Both sides agree on all conditions. Each side can hire the bestest and brightest to represent their side. This is an agreement. Both sides agree to conditons of employment.

If your town or the state decides to raid their portion or both portions of the retirement funds - well shame on them. If your town or the state hires actuarial incompentents - well then shame on them. If the money is stolen to pay other state bills - well shame on the legislature.

And in Massachusetts most employees receive an annuity and not a pension. Look up the difference. Some police and firefighters may receive a pension but that is the legislature that sets that up. If that is too much - well, then shame on the elected legislature.

If New Hampshire or Massachusetts has problems with the funding of the state annuities and pensions then why do you folks keep electing the same people?

All elected officials should know all of this. If they don't they should inform themselves or resign and let someone else who is informed do the job.

[diz]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Well now you are mixing up underfunded state pensions and health care costs. Two completely different items.

And a misunderstanding of what a collective bargaining agreement is.

A collective bargain agreement is an agreement, in this case, between the town and the towns employees. Both sides agree on all conditions. Each side can hire the bestest and brightest to represent their side. This is an agreement. Both sides agree to conditons of employment.

If your town or the state decides to raid their portion or both portions of the retirement funds - well shame on them. If your town or the state hires actuarial incompentents - well then shame on them. If the money is stolen to pay other state bills - well shame on the legislature.

And in Massachusetts most employees receive an annuity and not a pension. Look up the difference. Some police and firefighters may receive a pension but that is the legislature that sets that up. If that is too much - well, then shame on the elected legislature.

If New Hampshire or Massachusetts has problems with the funding of the state annuities and pensions then why do you folks keep electing the same people?

All elected officials should know all of this. If they don't they should inform themselves or resign and let someone else who is informed do the job.

Some people might take your comment as somewhat patronizing. I mean, I could point out that, in my town position, I see every CBA with each of our unions and vote on whether to fund them. I could point out that, at least in Mass., the funding for retirement and helath care are technically managed differently but budgeted for in the same way. I could point out that we cannot legally move money around as you suggest. I might even ask if you've ever run for election or even actively participated in your local government. But where would that get me? So speaking strictly to the issue of the long-term liability facing New England cities and towns, I don't think it's the "elected officials" you refer to that have the biggest impact. It's the cost of some of the union contracts. That's just my two bits.

[upthesaukee]

[tis]

As I was opening this, I was wondering if it was still "Off Topic"!!

[Pineedles]

Well I did my bit yesterday. Went to our local Lowes and bought a new microwave oven. Why do they have to add so many buttons? The one I received as a wedding present from my parents lasted nearly 30 years and was a lot simpler to use.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Well I did my bit yesterday. Went to our local Lowes and bought a new microwave oven. Why do they have to add so many buttons? The one I received as a wedding present from my parents lasted nearly 30 years and was a lot simpler to use.

' ( The No One Left Behind Act ) '... BTW, I'm still using my fire pit! And Oh Ya, when winter comes and you need to move it indoors. Of course there is lots more maintenance involved washing the ceilings and walls down after dinner. However, the slow cooked food is so much better!

Pineedles is such a Hoot!

Terry
_______________________________

[SIKSUKR]

I went to the Hooksett Lowes Saturday to look around and see what was left as they are were having 35% off everything. Ended up buying a fridge for $900 off. Great deal except when I got it home I realized I screwed up. Its 3 inches wider than my old one and won't fit in my opening. Looks like my savings will go into a little carpentry work.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I went to the Hooksett Lowes Saturday to look around and see what was left as they are were having 35% off everything. Ended up buying a fridge for $900 off. Great deal except when I got it home I realized I screwed up. Its 3 inches wider than my old one and won't fit in my opening. Looks like my savings will go into a little carpentry work.

Just put it in the TV room, save the carpentry work as well as walking.

[Pineedles]

It's unbelievable, but a 31 year old woman was found dead in her bedroom 2 days ago in Connecticut. I seems that she had brought her charcoal grill into her bedroom for heat. She died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Over 180 people have been treated for this condition in the past week due to the power outage. I think this woman had her brain pilot light out at the time.

Let's be careful out there people.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

It's unbelievable, but a 31 year old woman was found dead in her bedroom 2 days ago in Connecticut. I seems that she had brought her charcoal grill into her bedroom for heat. She died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Over 180 people have been treated for this condition in the past week due to the power outage. I think this woman had her brain pilot light out at the time.

Let's be careful out there people.

Do you have a link to this story. As propane does not give off carbon monoxide. How can they sell ventless propane fireplaces and wall unit ventless propane heaters?

These smaller propane heaters do use up oxygen. In a tight space the oxygen could be depleted. If the oxygen is depleted then yes as what is left after the oxygen is depleted?

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Do you have a link to this story. As propane does not give off carbon monoxide. How can they sell ventless propane fireplaces and wall unit ventless propane heaters?

These smaller propane heaters do use up oxygen. In a tight space the oxygen could be depleted. If the oxygen is depleted then yes as what is left after the oxygen is depleted?

Please re-read my post. I said charcoal. Here's the link.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/l...133126588.html

And BTW, I would never put a "Ventless Propane" heater in any room of my house, despite what they say it being safe!

[TOAD]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Do you have a link to this story. As propane does not give off carbon monoxide. How can they sell ventless propane fireplaces and wall unit ventless propane heaters?

These smaller propane heaters do use up oxygen. In a tight space the oxygen could be depleted. If the oxygen is depleted then yes as what is left after the oxygen is depleted?

Carbon Monoxide (CO) is responsible for almost 25% of all propane related fatalities. Carbon Monoxide is the product of incomplete gas combustion often because appliances are improperly adjusted. Properly functioning propane appliances will produce what is called an "ideal burn" during combustion and present no danger of Carbon Monoxide poisoning. Carbon Monoxide poisoning can lead to severe injury and even death.

http://www.propane101.com/carbonmonoxideandpropane.htm

[Winnisquamguy]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Do you have a link to this story. As propane does not give off carbon monoxide. How can they sell ventless propane fireplaces and wall unit ventless propane heaters?

These smaller propane heaters do use up oxygen. In a tight space the oxygen could be depleted. If the oxygen is depleted then yes as what is left after the oxygen is depleted?

Thought I would share this with you...just becuase they sell it doesn't mean its right.

Several states within the United States, as well as other countries, have completely outlawed ventless gas fireplaces because of health concerns. Canada, Massachusetts, and California don't allow people to install these types of heaters because of their potential to build up carbon monoxide, deplete oxygen, and lead to unconsciousness or even suffocation.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by Winnisquamguy

Thought I would share this with you...just becuase they sell it doesn't mean its right.

Several states within the United States, as well as other countries, have completely outlawed ventless gas fireplaces because of health concerns. Canada, Massachusetts, and California don't allow people to install these types of heaters because of their potential to build up carbon monoxide, deplete oxygen, and lead to unconsciousness or even suffocation.

"Safety benefits
Vent-free heaters emit heat without burning any combustible materials such as coal, logs or paper, reducing the risk of burns from ashes or runaway flames.The Vent-Free Alliance (VFA) is one of several organizations that supports the installation of vent-free heaters in the home because they are deemed safer than other heating appliances. Several model building codes also permit the installation of vent-free products. These codes include the National Fire Protection Assocation (NFPA), the International Fuel Gas Code, the International Mechanical Code (IMC) and the Building Officials and Code Administrators (BOCA)."

LINK

[RLW]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Well I did my bit yesterday. Went to our local Lowe's and bought a new microwave oven. Why do they have to add so many buttons? The one I received as a wedding present from my parents lasted nearly 30 years and was a lot simpler to use.

I don't believe they are harder to use and the extra buttons are there to confuse us. It is our age, we just didn't or is it we can't keep up with all these appliances that all you need is 2 thumbs to run.