Groton Wind Farm

[NoBozo]

Todays modern computer controlled wind turbines "Feather" their blades as wind speed increases, and fully feather at about 45 MPH of wind speed. When fully feathered the blades will not spin..only idle this way or that in the gusts. The computer keeps the fan disc/nacelle facing into the wind.

A typical 1.5 MW turbine will have a max rotation of 18-19 RPM. The gearbox will Step Up that RPM at a ratio of 1:100..or 1900 RPM at the generator. Smaller turbines spin faster and larger ones spin slower. A 2.0 MW turbine might spin at 14-15 RPM.

An important factor in RPM is limiting "Tip Speed" of the blades. A 1.5 MW turbine applys about 2000 HP to the generator at max load. NB

[Misty Blue]

I do not know what the fiscal situation is in Groten but I have a feeling that is is a bad deal for a tourist town.

I picture this...

A company builds some wind turbines on Red Hill. (If the land were available) The land is in the middle of nowhere and is cheap. Not much of a tax gain for the town.

After construction there are very few jobs generated (no pun intended) and I can see no spin off jobs generated in the town either.

The value of homes on Lake Kanasaka would have to drop. Most are there for the lake and the view. A drop in property values means more taxes for everyone in town.

I could be way off here but I can't see working in a place that depends on tourist trade.

BTW...I work for a company that is the largest producer of wind power in the world and as an engineer I have to admit that I think that they are kind of cool. Me bad.

Misty Blue

[NoBozo]

We have a 675 Kw Vestas in town on the grounds of a private school. It was there years before our "Town Owned" turbine and still runs every day without any issues that anyone is aware of.

The Town elected to go for the low bid. We got a $4M turbine for $3M. BTW the siting of our Town turbine is excellent. It's on the highest hill on the island and can be seen for Miles through 360 degrees in ANY direction. Frank...? "How come that thang don't RUN"..? NB

[BroadHopper]

I hear folks over at NewFound Lake can see the turbines and the town is asking why they weren't involved in the preliminary hearings.

I also hear you can see the turbines from Rattlesnake Mountain in Holderness. The folks there are upset too!

My guess is that there was p*** poor planning up front. If there were plans to spoil the horizon as far south as Winni and the Paul Bunyan poles on Tenney Mountain highway and it was not given, they should be stop before anything further developed.

What ever happen to the first wind farm on Crotched Mountain? I was told the feds and state bankrolled that project and it was eventually bankrupted. I was told the towers and equipment were vandalized and eventually taken down at the state expense. Concrete posts are the only thing left.

[fatlazyless]

Driving north or south on Rt 93 just south of Exit 26 in Plymouth, as well as when you get off at Exit 26 and drive west onto Rt 25-Tenney Mountain Highway, you get a good look-see at about a dozen of the 200' high towers and the lengthy three-blade propellers attached to each tower as viewed from aproximately five to ten miles away.

I have always thought that NH has incredibly expensive monthly electric bills and supposedly none of the wind turbine electricity is being used in NH, with it all gong to down south somewhere. .......oh well.......
.

[NoBozo]

Didn't want to bring this up. FLL made me do it. NH already EXPORTS Power. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_po..._New_Hampshire

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

Didn't want to bring this up. FLL made me do it. NH already EXPORTS Power. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_po..._New_Hampshire

NH generates 100% of it's own power, all while having some if not the highest electric rates in the nation.
So any attempt by power companies to bring wind or towers to our state is just a means to bring cheaper power to the southern states, it does nothing at all for NH. And all those tax savings eventually go away when they apply to the Federal Government for a tax abatement and usually get it.

This how screwed up N-star is, they sell electricity to their customers in Canada at say .10 per unit, if they get the power lines to go through NH they are promising to sell power to the US at .08 per unit. the Canadians are up in arms over this and against the northern Pass project as well.
The numbers are only used for example.

Oh and good ol boy Romney has a personal interest in the Northern pass project.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

... FLL made me do it...

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

...Oh and good ol boy Romney ....

Is this thread now becoming another political advertisement ?

[SAMIAM]

Wind farms are an ugly scar on our beautiful mountains.A total waste of money,as was Obama's billions wasted on bankrupt solar power.
Natural gas is clean and plentiful.Wind and solar power never got a plane off the ground

[SAMIAM]

Wind farms are an ugly scar on our beautiful mountains.A total waste of money,as was Obama's billions wasted on bankrupt solar power.
Natural gas is clean and plentiful.Wind and solar power never got a plane off the ground

[fatlazyless]

To really really really understand and comprehend the need and use for electro-magnetic energy ......aka......"electricity" ...... you must go for one day, 24-hours, with absolutely no electricity in your home or business by turning off the power at your main panel.......just to experience the importance and use of electricity in your daily life. It will give you a very serious appreciation for electricity.


If the Groton wind farm proves out good, then maybe similar wind turbines could be built in the very nearby mountains in the White Mountain National Forest in some of the less visited spots like Mt Isolation or Mt Tecumseh. Mt Tecumseh already has many ski lift towers so why not build some wind turbine towers too?

[gokart-mozart]

Does shovelling up all the dead birds count as a green job?

[Cobalt 25]

Wind generators causing bird deaths and now fires, too? What next? They cause incontinence? But, seriously, are these "issues" worthy of stopping progress?

Alternative forms of producing energy are here to stay. Dealing with climate change demands it. Wind generators may not be perfect yet, but I believe we need to keep building them and thus improving them.

I am excited about the ones being installed on the ridge right behind our house in southern Vermont!

Peter

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 25

Wind generators causing bird deaths and now fires, too? What next? They cause incontinence? But, seriously, are these "issues" worthy of stopping progress?

Alternative forms of producing energy are here to stay. Dealing with climate change demands it. Wind generators may not be perfect yet, but I believe we need to keep building them and thus improving them.

I am excited about the ones being installed on the ridge right behind our house in southern Vermont!

Peter

No problem as long a they don't use our state to make power that is sent to other states.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

No problem as long a they don't use our state to make power that is sent to other states.

You don't consume anything produced in other states an shipped to NH?

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

You don't consume anything produced in other states an shipped to NH?

You totally miss the point. The White Mountains are a virgin untouched area for all to enjoy. There are some power lines that have run through the area for as long as I can remember. Every time you see one it looks like a scar to the area.
I'm against North Country being ruined with towers and or windmills which will ruin the beauty of the area for ever and all for what? So Canadian companies can bring power down to the southern states. In many cases the companies involved are not even in our country, how are we befitting?
Not sure weather you have even researched what the Northern Pass is about but 200 foot towers towering above the trees from Canada down through the heart of our state isn't even necessary when they have unopposed options to bury the power lines and meet almost no opposition to the project.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

You totally miss the point. The White Mountains are a virgin untouched area for all to enjoy. There are some power lines that have run through the area for as long as I can remember. Every time you see one it looks like a scar to the area.
I'm against North Country being ruined with towers and or windmills which will ruin the beauty of the area for ever and all for what? So Canadian companies can bring power down to the southern states. In many cases the companies involved are not even in our country, how are we befitting?
Not sure weather you have even researched what the Northern Pass is about but 200 foot towers towering above the trees from Canada down through the heart of our state isn't even necessary when they have unopposed options to bury the power lines and meet almost no opposition to the project.

Quite familiar with the whole Northern Pass project, and I'm similarly opposed to it for multiple reasons. However your post made it seem as if it would be ok to destroy the area if the project provided cheap power to NH residents, but not if it was merely a conduit to other states/areas.

There is a larger issue that needs to be reconciled, which is that population growth and mass consumerism/consumption are not compatible with preserving all areas in pristine conditions in the way they have been for thousands of years.

I won't claim to know the specifics of your lifestyle, so I don't mean that as a comment directed at you, but I do find it curious when people oppose certain projects, but then act in a manner that is a contributor to the things they rail against. EG: anyone driving a Prius to "save the environment" is sans-clue.

[fatlazyless]

The White Mountain National Forest has ski areas; Waterville, Wildcat, Loon, Bretton Woods, Cranmore, Attitash, and Cannon on its property that are permitted by the US Dept Agriculture special use permits. How different are the wind turbines from the ski lift towers and will a wind farm qualify for a special use permit?

Presently, down on TEnney Mt Hgwy in Plymouth, the recently installed wood utility poles are really huge and spaced close together while the huge insulator brackets and power line have yet to be installed. How's that all going to look, a great big utility line running down Highland Ave, FAirground Rd, and Tenney Mt Hgwy in PLymouth?

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Quite familiar with the whole Northern Pass project, and I'm similarly opposed to it for multiple reasons. However your post made it seem as if it would be ok to destroy the area if the project provided cheap power to NH residents, but not if it was merely a conduit to other states/areas.

There is a larger issue that needs to be reconciled, which is that population growth and mass consumerism/consumption are not compatible with preserving all areas in pristine conditions in the way they have been for thousands of years.

I won't claim to know the specifics of your lifestyle, so I don't mean that as a comment directed at you, but I do find it curious when people oppose certain projects, but then act in a manner that is a contributor to the things they rail against. EG: anyone driving a Prius to "save the environment" is sans-clue.

I agree with you, I am by no means a tree huger opposed to everything.
I just a look around during the summer months and with a little imagination one can see that down the road this whole area is going to be one big traffic nightmare as more and more flood to the now less populated areas of the lakes region.
But there are still some up north areas that should at all cost be left out of reach even for the most wealthy.
Living in this area verses coming up with my boy's to vacation has opened my eyes to things I never really looked at or cared about.
Oh and Super Duty Diesel by necessity of job, but looking to replace an aging gas SUV with a more fuel efficient Tacoma soon. Prius=speed bump!

[Winnisquamguy]

By PAULA TRACY
New Hampshire Union Leader
GROTON — The tiny town of Groton has a huge new source of revenue.

The windfall is from a wind farm now going up along its ridge lines and visible from the Pemi-Baker Valley.

Selectmen inked a 15-year-agreement with the Spanish wind energy giant Iberdrola which brings in $528,000 in the first year. The 2012 Groton town budget is $546,000; if all approved warrant articles are included, it totals $742,000, according to Pamela Hamel, administrative assistant to the Selectboard.

Iberdrola is moving to complete its $120 million, 48-megawatt project by the end of the year.

The Groton payment in lieu of tax agreement states that once the turbines are licensed and operating, each of the 24 turbines will net the town $22,000 a year. The PILOT base fee also increases annually by 2.5 percent, Hamel said.

“It's huge,” Hamel said of the tax impact of the project, which is the only commercial business in town.

She said the community of just under 600 has nine miles of paved road, six street lights, one bridge, no fire department or ambulance, and a tax rate of $12.24 per $1,000 of assessed value. Groton sends about 70 children to neighboring Newfound Regional School District — the town's largest expense.

Hamel said the Groton Selectboard is first looking to use some of the money to capitalize reserve funds and to fix up the roads, which she said are in tough shape.

“We've been on a shoestring budget for so long,” she said.

She noted the town has already received construction payments for 2011 and 2012 totaling $100,000 and also netted $236,000 when the land being used for the project went out of current use. The town will still receive taxes on the private land, but at a higher rate beginning next April.

The reaction from townspeople to the 400-foot-high turbines has been “great,” she said.

Few residents even see the project from their property, because of the way the roads and views are configured.

“We're kind of disappointed about that,” she said.

She acknowledged that not all in the region are as enthusiastic, particularly those who live in the Baker River Valley who are used to looking at ridge lines without any structures.

Surrounding towns do not receive any income because the project lies solely in Groton.

New Hampshire will receive money through its utility property tax assessment, which has not yet been established. It will also receive business enterprise and business profits tax revenue.

The electricity from the project, estimated to be enough to power 20,000 homes, is being sold to NSTAR at an undisclosed price per-kilowatt-hour.

Ed Cherian, the project developer, said 18 of the 24 Groton turbines are now complete.

“We're actually ahead of schedule,” he said.

While he said there are likely individuals and landowners who are not happy with the sight of the towers, the project has enjoyed the cooperation and support of not only Groton, but Holderness, Rumney and Plymouth officials.

The company's first wind farm in Lempster is half the size of the Groton project and almost four years old.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/2...WS05/708279935

[bclaker]

Originally Posted by gokart-mozart

Does shovelling up all the dead birds count as a green job?

Might be a good way to get rid of those surplus defecating Canada geese!!!

[kunamola]

This must be what I could see last Monday evening at sunset (it was a clear day) from Abenaki Tower. I was astounded to see wind turbines along a ridge in the distance. Has anyone else noticed this and is it the wind farm in Groton?

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

To really really really understand and comprehend the need and use for electro-magnetic energy ......aka......"electricity" ...... you must go for one day, 24-hours, with absolutely no electricity in your home or business by turning off the power at your main panel.......just to experience the importance and use of electricity in your daily life. It will give you a very serious appreciation for electricity.


If the Groton wind farm proves out good, then maybe similar wind turbines could be built in the very nearby mountains in the White Mountain National Forest in some of the less visited spots like Mt Isolation or Mt Tecumseh. Mt Tecumseh already has many ski lift towers so why not build some wind turbine towers too?

None of this electricity is benefiting NH. Let them build them in the states the electricity is going too not here. Let them build them on top of the hills of Mass or right off the coast so they can see them when they go to the beach.
Nobody wants them down there either and they are the ones all this supposedly cheap power is being brought to. The ones that will benefit the most are the biggest whiners, just look at the progress on the wind farm they wanted to put out in the ocean as an example.
That is the biggest issue most of us have, we do not benefit one bit.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

None of this electricity is benefiting NH. Let them build them in the states the electricity is going too not here. Let them build them on top of the hills of Mass or right off the coast so they can see them when they go to the beach.
Nobody wants them down there either and they are the ones all this supposedly cheap power is being brought to. The ones that will benefit the most are the biggest whiners, just look at the progress on the wind farm they wanted to put out in the ocean as an example.
That is the biggest issue most of us have, we do not benefit one bit.

Great point Belmont.Remember how fast Ted Kennedy lobbied to stop the windmill project in HIS neighborhood

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

None of this electricity is benefiting NH. Let them build them in the states the electricity is going too not here. Let them build them on top of the hills of Mass or right off the coast so they can see them when they go to the beach.
Nobody wants them down there either and they are the ones all this supposedly cheap power is being brought to. The ones that will benefit the most are the biggest whiners, just look at the progress on the wind farm they wanted to put out in the ocean as an example.
That is the biggest issue most of us have, we do not benefit one bit.

Even though I don't mind the looks of them I completely agree with you. The energy created here should be used here to drive down our already inflated cost of electricity.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

None of this electricity is benefiting NH........
That is the biggest issue most of us have, we do not benefit one bit.

Have to wait until the turbines start operating and turning with the wind to see how much if any noise is made and how it sounds at the relatively close-by Plymouth Wal-Mart parking lot and its' neighboring Health Place-Speare Health Clinic, White Mountain Eye Clinic, and Pemi Baker Community Health Clinic, multiple discipline health professional health care clinic ..... aka ....."The Health Place."

How much noise can five wind turbines make, as heard from a distance of about one mile at the Plymouth Health Place and Plymouth Wal-Mart locations which are located high up on a hill and to the east of the Tenney Montain Ridge which has about five turbines currently looking all complete with all three propeller wings on each unit.

How much noise.......the answer is blowing in the wind?


Another question is what's the negotiated price/kilowatt that N-Star of Boston will pay Iberdrola of Spain for their Groton Wind electricity? How much......what's the price?

The Town of Plymouth has always been so picky-wicky with what they allow in terms of signs and construction so it strikes me as unusual that Plymouth would be at all happy with the 100' wood utility poles, spaced twice as close as the older shorter poles they replace that now run down Tenney Mt Hgwy-Highland Ave-Fairgrounds Rd-Riverside Cemetary-Plymouth Police Dept-Rt 3- crossing above Rt 93, and have yet to get wired with insulator brackets and wire lines enroute to a substation in neighboring Campton.

[BroadHopper]

It took the town three plus years for Lowes to back down and move out. All this crap about ground water, parking lot run off, etc. that they give to developers and they miss the sky above them.

[fatlazyless]

Could be that the Town of Plymouth will get increased larger property taxes from all the newly installed, tall, fat, 100' high utility poles ........have no clue.....is there a property tax-utility pole know-it-all on board here?

The selectmen may want to label the increased revenue as new money they wish they were not receiving ..... Just to save some face ... and distance themself from these monster utility poles ..... ho-ho-ho .......

[BroadHopper]

Believe it or not, the municipal, county and state gets some kind of revenue from the transmission poles. In fact this fee is the largest expense paid by the utilities.

[NoBozo]

I thought some may find this interesting. When our RI Turbine had been running for awhile, I bumped into a guy up at the Turbine site and struck up a conversation with him. I am an engineer and had become Enchanted with this machine. He had a connections with town government but I don't know what kind of connection.

He had a Laptop in his car and showed me how he could link up with the Turbine....via WiFi or Cell Phone I don't know. He could access any parameter he wanted. The website he was accessing was the company in Canada that built the turbine. The builder was monitoring the turbine real time all the time. (They went bankrupt a year later)

He told me this access would be available online to any resident shortly. This Access never happened.

I suspect our Town Planner inherited this Laptop. Weather the Town Planner could Control the turbine from the Laptop or not, is still speculation. NB

PS: This was my Personal interaction with some of the people who built the turbine and local town officials who later managed it in the beginning. I had no connections and was just interested as an engineer.

[tis]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Have to wait until the turbines start operating and turning with the wind to see how much if any noise is made and how it sounds at the relatively close-by Plymouth Wal-Mart parking lot and its' neighboring Health Place-Speare Health Clinic, White Mountain Eye Clinic, and Pemi Baker Community Health Clinic, multiple discipline health professional health care clinic ..... aka ....."The Health Place."

How much noise can five wind turbines make, as heard from a distance of about one mile at the Plymouth Health Place and Plymouth Wal-Mart locations which are located high up on a hill and to the east of the Tenney Montain Ridge which has about five turbines currently looking all complete with all three propeller wings on each unit.

How much noise.......the answer is blowing in the wind


Another question is what's the negotiated price/kilowatt that N-Star of Boston will pay Iberdrola of Spain for their Groton Wind electricity? How much......what's the price?

The Town of Plymouth has always been so picky-wicky with what they allow in terms of signs and construction so it strikes me as unusual that Plymouth would be at all happy with the 100' wood utility poles, spaced twice as close as the older shorter poles they replace that now run down Tenney Mt Hgwy-Highland Ave-Fairgrounds Rd-Riverside Cemetary-Plymouth Police Dept-Rt 3- crossing above Rt 93, and have yet to get wired with insulator brackets and wire lines enroute to a substation in neighboring Campton.

Are the turbines on the hill up behind WalMart?

[HellRaZoR004]

What's with the mod moving all the posts around, it's getting a little old.

[NoBozo]

My guess is Post #79 did it. NB