Downings landing sold!

[Altonbayicefishingfool]

The landing has been sold to the NH Fish & Game dept.

This property has been owned and operated by my family for over a 100 years.
I wish the new owners the best of luck.

The launch will be open to the public according to F&G

Downings is located at the southern most tip of the lake, Alton Bay

[Just Sold]

I for one will miss the Downing's being at the Landing as I have many memories of the arcade, fuel docks and much more but I wish Johnathan, Nancy and the whole Downing family nothing but the best. They will never be forgotten.

[Sunbeam lodge]

Originally Posted by Altonbayicefishingfool

The landing has been sold to the NH Fish & Game dept.

This property has been owned and operated by my family for over a 100 years.
I wish the new owners the best of luck.

The launch will be open to the public according to F&G

Downings is located at the southern most tip of the lake, Alton Bay

originally listed for $5.75 million? bought for $1.0 million??

[AC2717]

i don't think that is the marina for a $5.75mil price
but the listing is no longer up, i hit the link on the original post about a marina being sold

[Altonbayicefishingfool]

Originally Posted by Sunbeam lodge

originally listed for $5.75 million? bought for $1.0 million??

Correct, $1.0 mil was the asking price

[ahamer]

Not to be negative, but the fish and game is in the same shape as the united states post office. I question how the money or it's justification of how it is spent, would ever be put forth for such a purpose? Oh and this maybe only my second post but I am a native of Alton, just saying.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by ahamer

Not to be negative, but the fish and game is in the same shape as the united states post office. I question how the money or it's justification of how it is spent, would ever be put forth for such a purpose? Oh and this maybe only my second post but I am a native of Alton, just saying.

At least a valuable asset at a seemingly good price was acquired with the funds, ensuring the property will be used forever by all who want access to the lake. Further, the state always has the option to sell the property. This transaction is far different from endless losses at the post office and bloated pension payments to former bureaucrats.

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by ahamer

Not to be negative, but the fish and game is in the same shape as the united states post office. I question how the money or it's justification of how it is spent, would ever be put forth for such a purpose? Oh and this maybe only my second post but I am a native of Alton, just saying.

Me too, hope this country and state can regain its fiscal sanity soon .

[RLW]

ahamer, I just noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends. I liked your comment.

[ahamer]

My point in my post came across incorrect, I assumed public access with no incoming revenue to protect the lake and offset the purchase costs. The post by altonbayicefishingfool said nothing of costs or plans of the fish and game. My apologies for jumping to conclusions.

[NHBUOY]

Congrats to you AltonIce. Did not know that was who you are.
Spent way too much time and money at the gas dock, arcade, & LandHO.
Always good time memories at the Downings dock.

[upthesaukee]

Talked to Parker Marine folks today, and they said essentially what was in the paper...NH State public access to the lake...good for the public, good for the State. May deploy a Marine Patrol boat during the season as well. Also a F& G boat there. More of a presence.

It is a better launch ramp than the town's ramp..not as steep, water is pretty deep and as long as they keep the "no power loading" in effect, should continue to be good for launching boats, especially those longer ones. One of my friends has a 38 or 39 foot Baja, and he can launch at Downings or go to a place that can lift him off with a crane. that gets a little expensive.

[playinghooky]

The state generally does not charge to use their ramps which would bring a lot more boaters wanting to use the ramp. The existing parking lot at Downings is kind of limited. Where will people park their trailers?
People that use the town ramp across the bay can launch their boat, drop their trailer off on Letter S Road and come back and park their car in the town lot while they are boating. Would they have to do the same at the new facility? Will the state do repairs to the ramp to bring it up to their standards like they did at other ramps?

[fatlazyless]

Yesterday's Nov 15 Union Leader had about a 20-paragraph article on the new state boat launch at Downing's in one of the paper's back pages. Will go see if I still have the paper before it gets trashed? Maybe this article is in this websites winni-related news scanner above..... ?

For the Town of Alton, is this new ownership by the State of New Hampshire of what was a privately owned waterfront property likely to be considered a welcome new use? Considering it will be a free-to-use boat launch for everyone whether they be a one time private user or a multiple use commercial boat launcher, will it be competing with any nearby private or town owned similar boat ramps? On Lake Winnipesaukee, launching a boat usually costs about 15 or 20-dollars during the summer, and adding a freebie state ramp into the local mix will probably become a new local issue.

What would you do, if you have the choice between paying 20-dollars, or using a local town ramp, or using what is probably a better designed State of NH launch ramp and loading dock for free? I know what I would do!

For one thing, the Town of Alton will not be getting any property tax from the Downings property no more, now that it is state-owned. It was probably purchased with money that came from the boat registration fees that NH boaters must pay to get their boat registered, and in the last ten years or so, state boat launch facilities have been built at Newfound, Squam, & Winnisquam lakes; all free-to-use and to park, and this is the very first similar style state boat launch for Winnipesaukee. On Lake Sunapee, there's been an on-going contentious disagreement between the state and the Town of Newbury over a similar state boat launch facility for maybe ten years now. The local town don't want it, but the state wants to build it. ....maybe try googling "Court should okay Sunapee boat ramp, Concord Monitor, Oct 22, 2012."


Just maybe, you might even run into Mitt Romney launching a jetski or some small boat down at this new state boat ramp because, after all, it will be free to use .......and very conveniently located so......well.....well.....well....and....my....my. .....my.......and how about that.........hello there Mitt.....how's it going?

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

This transaction is far different from endless losses at the post office and bloated pension payments to former bureaucrats.

Too many TV sound bites.
Read up on the facts.
LINK

No tax money goes to the post office since 1971. Retirements are annuities and the employee pays half and the employers pays the other half. No taxpayer money.

But this post is not about the post office.

This post is about the state purchasing waterfront property in Alton.
Remember that the State Police have taken over Marine Patrol. In that administrative move my bet is that access to more state and federal money becomes available. Wait awhile and it won't be long before the Marine Patrol gets it's own helicopter and possibly a drone airplane - all for your public safety.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Too many TV sound bites.
Read up on the facts.
LINK

No tax money goes to the post office since 1971. Retirements are annuities and the employee pays half and the employers pays the other half. No taxpayer money.

But this post is not about the post office.

This post is about the state purchasing waterfront property in Alton.
Remember that the State Police have taken over Marine Patrol. In that administrative move my bet is that access to more state and federal money becomes available. Wait awhile and it won't be long before the Marine Patrol gets it's own helicopter and possibly a drone airplane - all for your public safety.

The approach/interpretation you cite is basically kicking the can down the road. Please read another perspective from a more moderate source, Bloomberg News:

Understanding the Post Office’s Benefits Mess
By Josh Barro Aug 2, 2012 9:17 AM ET
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QUEUE
Q
Yesterday, the United States Postal Service admitted that it will miss a legally required $5.5 billion payment toward pre-funding its promised health-care benefits for retirees. But is this even a cost the USPS should have to cover? The answer, unfortunately, is "sort of." Here's why -- and what we should do about it.
Imagine you have a company with only one employee, Steve. If Steve earns a salary of $50,000 and receives no benefits, you have to pay him cash in the current period and reflect the whole $50,000 as an expense.
Now imagine that instead you pay Steve $45,000 a year and promise to pay for his health care in retirement, assuming that he works for a certain number of years. The present value of the health care benefits that Steve will accrue this year is $5,000.
Your employment expenses are still $50,000 a year, even though you had only $45,000 in actual cash outflows to Steve. Whether or not you set aside money to cover Steve's future health-care costs, you incurred a debt to him, and that's an expense.
Unfortunately, most government entities do not treat the accrual of retiree health-care liabilities as a cost (though they do report the size of the liability). Private firms do treat these accruals as costs. These firms are not legally obligated to pre-fund health-care benefits, but about a quarter do so.
Now imagine that Steve is nearing retirement, and all along you had been promising him health benefits but hadn't set aside any money. In order to reach full funding by the time Steve retires, you would now have to set aside $15,000 per year: $5,000 for the benefits he accrues and $10,000 to build up the fund you never created.
Your extra $10,000 payment amortizes a debt you had accrued in past years; it's not an expense any more than paying off principal on a loan is an expense.
Now let's look at how this example applies to the Postal Service. Until 2006, the USPS handled its retiree health benefits on a "pay as you go" basis. They weren't pre-funded; the service simply paid retirees' health bills as they arose, reporting only those expenses. Because the cost of actually providing health care to retirees in a given year is less than the value of benefits current workers are accruing, that meant the post office was understating the cost of retiree health care.
Then in 2006, Congress forced the post office to start prefunding its benefits for retiree health care on a schedule designed to reach full funding in 10 years. Now, the Postal Service is supposed to put about $8 billion a year toward retiree health care.
But the so-called "normal cost" of health benefits -- the value of the benefits current postal employees are accruing this year, the equivalent of Steve's $5,000 -- is only about $3 billion. To the extent the post office pays the other $5 billion, that shouldn't be counted as an expense; it is going to pay off the Postal Service's debts.
As it happens, even while missing the $5.5 billion payment that's in the news this week, the Postal Service will pay about $2.5 billion this year to provide health benefits to its existing retired workers. So, the service will be short of covering the accrual-basis cost of retiree health care this year, but only by about $500 million.
Going forward, the Postal Service should be expected to cover the normal cost of retiree health care, paying a little bit more than it is right now, but far less than what Congress has obligated it to pay.
That will take care of the cost of retiree health benefits that are earned in the future. But what should we do about the $46 billion in accrued but unfunded benefits? All the plausible options involve taxpayers covering that bill.
For example, we could privatize the Postal Service and make the buyer take on the retiree health-care obligation. But that would simply reduce the sale price of the post office by $46 billion -- meaning that taxpayers pay.
Or, we could keep the Postal Service in public hands, restructure it so it produces profits and use those profits to gradually amortize the liability. Basically, this is what the 2006 law was supposed to do, though Congress didn't actually give USPS enough flexibility to restructure. This option costs taxpayers, too -- postal profits that would otherwise go to the government would instead be diverted to pay off the retiree health care liability.
Or, Congress could directly subsidize the post office to fund its retiree health-care costs. Obviously, that would put the cost on the backs of taxpayers.
The only way to avoid having taxpayers bail out the USPS is to default on the benefits -- tell current and retired workers that they won't get the benefits they thought they had earned. Stockton, California, is proposing to do this as part of its bankruptcy filing. But that would be a bad option for several reasons -- unlike Stockton, the federal government is not insolvent and therefore ought to keep its promises, even if they were unwise.
It was a big, boneheaded mistake to let the post office run up such big debts -- and therefore understate its losses -- for decades. But trying to squeeze repayment of those debts out of future postal profits is like getting blood from a stone.
The best way forward is to cut our losses, deregulate the post office and sell it -- as has been done all over Europe. Regardless of how the retiree health issue is handled, declining mail volumes mean that the USPS will eventually become insolvent if it is not reformed; the only question is when. Relieving the post office of the obligation to pay the $5.5 billion this year would give us breathing room to get that necessary restructuring done.
And going forward, we should require government entities to pre-fund their health benefits, just as the USPS should have been doing all along. Retiree health benefits are non-trivial costs, and if governments are required to pre-fund, they will be less likely to make irresponsible promises of the sort that sank Stockton and that have helped to undermine the Postal Service.
(Josh Barro is lead writer for the Ticker. E-mail him and follow him on Twitter.)
Read more breaking commentary from Josh Barro and other Bloomberg View columnists and editors at the Ticker.
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[songkrai]

"In 2006, Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. This law requires the Postal Service to do something that no other business or government agency has to do--pre-fund its FUTURE retiree health care benefits. This is a 75 year liability that has to be paid in 10 years. The Postal Service makes a payment of approximately $5.5 billion on September 30 at the end of every fiscal year to meet this obligation. The Post Office has been paying these benefits the past four years into a trust fund for employees who have not even been born yet. This is the burden that is creating the “financial crisis” for the Post Office. The recession that has gripped America the past few years has undoubtedly affected the Postal Service, but even in the worst economic
times since the great depression, the USPS has had a net profit of $611 million dollars. Unfortunately, the red ink associated with the post office is the mandated pre-funding since 2006."

"This onerous payment is barely being reported in the media. Another fact not being widely circulated is that independent agencies and the government itself have concluded that the USPS has overpaid into its two retirement systems. The Post Office has excessively funded the Civil Service Retirement System by at least $50 billion dollars, and the Federal Employees Retirement System around $7 billion dollars."


LINK

[RailroadJoe]

So I take it that the PO is taking over Downings LAnding?

[upthesaukee]

Take your Post Office rants elsewhere. It has nothing to do with Downings

[Just Sold]

To get back on topic.......it was purchased by Fish and Game and not the Marine Patrol.

Originally Posted by Altonbayicefishingfool

The landing has been sold to the NH Fish & Game dept.

This property has been owned and operated by my family for over a 100 years.
I wish the new owners the best of luck.

The launch will be open to the public according to F&G

Downings is located at the southern most tip of the lake, Alton Bay

[upthesaukee]

@ FLL...According to the article, there is no change in use. Downing launched boats, the ramp will remain open for boat launching. No change of use. Charging for launching or free launching does not change the use.

Parker Marine does not provide public boat launching at their ramp. I do not see Gillan Marine using their ramp for public launching. No competition in the bay.

I believe that the closest pay for launch would then be West Alton Marina and possibly Robert's Cove Marina (don't know if RCM does public launching).

@playing hooky...You can park your trailer on the Letter S road across from the Town Barn...you can park your vehicle in Bay parking lot. However, realize there is no overnight parking in the Bay.

Overall, I think a win win for the town. The town ramp can be tough in season and on a busy day in the bay. Downings can be less intimidating to those who have some difficulty in backing up a trailer. You can pull in so as to have almost a straight in launch, and far less people to watch and add to the intimidation factor.

[Altonbayicefishingfool]

Could someone please enlighten me on BOAT registration dollars,
Does the money go to marine patrol, State, F&G or all of the above?

Thanks!

[BroadHopper]

Finally Winnipesaukee has a public launch ramp. At least the legislature is doing one thing right. However only 35 parking spaces is on the plan. That will fill up wicked fast!
If we ever want the Pro bass tour to come back to Winni, they need much more than 35 spaces. I wonder if parking down on Letter S drive will still be available?
I believe Harilla's Landing has more space available if the state ever pursue another public launch ramp. I hope so!

[jmen24]

I don't think some folks here realize that fish and game is not attached to the state of NH for funding or budgeting.

The legislature has nothing to do with how fish and game spends its money. Our tax dollars do not go into any fish and game programs (other than a gov grant requirement that the general fund kick in 50K every year, this is a longer story on the why of this). Fish and game is funded by the people that buy hunting and fishing licenses, donate to the org and federal conservation grants.

Fish and game is taxed with aquiring, improving and maintaining most car top and many trailer access points in the entire state, that are state owned.

Altonbayfishin, marine patrol gets money from boat regs, fish and game does not get anything from powerboaters.

[upthesaukee]

Nothing to indicate that Letter S road parking will cease to be available. That all began when trailer parking was prohibited at the Bay parking lots. No reason to expect that availability will cease.

[barefootbay]

Originally Posted by playinghooky

The state generally does not charge to use their ramps which would bring a lot more boaters wanting to use the ramp. The existing parking lot at Downings is kind of limited. Where will people park their trailers?
People that use the town ramp across the bay can launch their boat, drop their trailer off on Letter S Road and come back and park their car in the town lot while they are boating. Would they have to do the same at the new facility? Will the state do repairs to the ramp to bring it up to their standards like they did at other ramps?

Just what the lake needs " a lot more boats " !

[mcdude]

I'll miss the WEBCAMS

[Rusty]

NHF&G will use $556,250 of Federal Aid in Sportfish Restoration funds and $443,750 in Fish and Game Statewide Public Boat Access Funds to purchase the property. This will be the Department’s first and only public boat access facility on the State’s largest lake. After acquiring this property, boat access and shorebank fishing to Lake Winnipesaukee will be guaranteed in perpetuity.

[riverat]

I worry that being now a public launch, it will be used in the wintertime as a means of getting on the lake via snowmobile, 4 wheeler, skis ect... and that the channel is right there. can be very dangerous venturing out in that location whereas before it was private and not accessable. I hope the F&G put up appropriate signage.

[fatlazyless]

From the Union Leader editorial section, page A10, Friday, November 16, 2012
........................

Your boat launch

We all own one now

The Executive Council on Wednesday approved the state's purchase of a private marina on Lake Winnipesaukee. The reason? To acquire at long last a public, deep-water boat launch on the big lake. Taxpayers should greet this $1 million purchase with cautious optimism.

"This is great for the people of New Hampshire," District 2 Executive Councilor Dan St. Hilaire said. "The people of New Hampshire will be able to put a boat into Lake Winnipesaukee without having to own a $5 million lakefront home."

Perhaps. But Downing's Landing, the Alton Bay business the state has purchased, charged only $10 for a boat launch and $20 for a launch and on-site parking. That would add up some over the course of a summer, but for weekend visitors it was hardly a big expense.

Then there is the issue of the deal. Glenn Normandeau, executive director of Fish and Game, said "We've been working on this for a long time, pretty much under the table, so the whole thing would not blow up."

Hmmm. What does that mean? Legislators ought to find out.

Having a basic public boat launch on the big lake is a good idea. But does the state really need to own a marina that competes with other private marinas on the lake? Have taxpayers just spent $1 million so boat owners won't have to pay $10 to put their vessels in the water?

Legislators need to keep an eye on the numbers to make sure that this deal is as good for the public in the long run as councilors say it will be.

And they should review this "under the table" affair , too.

....................

I'm not all too familiar with Downing's Landing as I only get down to Alton Bay maybe 2-3 times per year, but I recall that the landing area, about 8/10 of one acre in size (Union Leader article), is no longer as attractive as in the past as seen in the photo post section of this website. It used to have, maybe 40-50 years ago, a green grass and flowers attraction at the roadside entrance which has since been replaced with asphalt paving.

That spot on the water, Downing's Landing, 8/10 of one acre, has a lot of visibility from the road, so maybe the Fish & Game could turn it into a very nice looking facility somewhat similar to how it looked maybe 40-50 years ago, at least at the roadside entrance?

[eyenotall777]

I certainly wish Nancy and Jonathan the Best of Luck..however, the parking is a concern. Nancy and Johanthan had a system that worked well..meaning we were told where to park and they were able to fit as many as they could in and also a system to people launching their boats. Wonder how this will work now, will it be monitored?? If people are not told where and how to park, alot less people will be able to launch I would think

[BroadHopper]

Take a look at the Winnisquam facility. I think it is first class and second to none. I'm sure it will be a model for the Downing's Landing site.

The parking is well laid out for the amount of space available. Although it is full in the mornings, you can be able to find a spot after 10 AM with the excepting of Saturdays. The local police use to give folks a hard time parking with trailers along the city streets during the first year it was open. I was told thay had slack off, but the city will not allow overnight parking. Landmark Storage down the street will offer overnight and weekly parking for a fee.

F&G are fortunate to be able to hold on to state licensing fees and be able to cash in on wildlife grants. Poor marine patrol, the state place boaters registration in the General fund and pay the marine patrol as they feel fit. This is the big reason why I will not tolerate increases in boat registration, a way of getting around paying for their crazy spending without increasing property tax.

[MikeM]

I was a long time resident and had the baitshop and canvas shop at downings untill 2004. I hope all the best to John and Nancy.

[RLW]

Hey MikeM, great to see you back on the site. Don't be a stranger and hi to John. You and John had a great business in that building for many a good year which many of us still miss seeing you there at Bayview Canvas both for the work that you guys did but also just for stopping in for a chit chat.

[Rusty]

I took this image off Google maps:

[RLW]

That picture must be close to 4 years old. The tank went last year and the buildings are all vacant. Story has it they will be the southern end of Winni F&G headquarters after some renovation and possibly the MP station.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by RLW

That picture must be close to 4 years old. The tank went last year and the buildings are all vacant. Story has it they will be the southern end of Winni F&G headquarters after some renovation and possibly the MP station.

Thanks RLW.

I knew that the tank was gone but the pumps are still there.

It would be nice if they turned the building into something the public could use, i.e, bathrooms, showers, vending machines, wifi, etc.

Although having the F&G and MP there isn't a bad idea either.

[Just Sold]

Few shots of Downings Landing today.

[Altonbayicefishingfool]

In the agreement, "Downings landing" name will remain...

[mcdude]

From the Baysider - 12/20/12

Some interesting history in this article. It also includes several postcards that many of you have seen before but also a nice photo of four generations of Downings.

State purchases

Downing’s Landing

Property will
become public
boat access site
BY TIM CROES
Staff Writer

ALTON — For more than

150 years, the property
known as Downing’s Landing
has served the community
of Alton Bay.
In late November, Jon
Downing made the tough decision
to sell the property to
New Hampshire Fish and
Game and it will now serve
as a boat launch that is open
to the public on a first-come,
first-served basis.
“It was a bittersweet decision,”
Downing said. “I have
no sons to take it over.”
Downing has three daughters,
Julie, Jocelyn and Jennifer
and they scattered
throughout the country.
Downing said he was approached
back in 1992 by the
department, but didn’t feel
that the time was right.
In a press release issued
by the New Hampshire Fish
and Game, director Glenn
Normandeau talked about
the purchase.
“This is exciting news for
New Hampshire’s outdoor
enthusiasts because it creates
the first state-owned and
controlled boat ramp with
parking on Lake Winnipesaukee,”
Normandeau
said. “For years, we’ve wanted
to provide the public with
a boat access site on the big
lake, and I am thrilled that
we’ve been able to do it.”
The press release goes on
to say that the property may
be temporarily closed while
the department determines
what maintenance and repairs
are necessary.
“Improvements may include
dock repairs and installation
of a newer concrete
boat ramp. Fish and
Game officials hope to have
the site open this in time for
ice fishing season,” the press
release continued.
Downing has lot of pride
in the property, knowing that
it has been in his family since
his great-great-great grandfather
purchased it back in
1857.
To this day, Downing still
has a commercial pilot’s license,
as he used to drive the
famous “Legionairre” boat
back in the day when a fare
of $.75 or $1 was charged.
The landing had gas
pumps installed on the property
in 1910 and they remained

until they were removed

The original purchase in
1857 included a lumber yard
across the street, which is
now Parker’s Marine.
The first building was constructed
on the property in
1893, and by 1917 that became
Downing’s Garage and Boat
Service.
By 1920, a 100-foot dock
was added to the landing and
the property became one of
New England’s first Evinrude
dealers.

costs $1.

Rides on the Legionnaire,
a 10-passenger, 26-foot speed
boat powered by a Chrysler
motor with a top speed of 45
miles per hour, were offered
in the mid-1930s.
In 1940, a new boat, with a
cost of $35,000 and powered
by a 1,000 horse power
Packard motor, top speed on
the new Legionnaire was 70
miles per hour and rides
costs $1.
By 1949, a snack shop
“Land Ho” was built at the
landing following an amusement

center that featured a

miniature train. By the early
1960s, the parking lot was
paved for boat trailers and
parking and the speedboats
were sold.
Downing’s aunt, Nancy
Downing Merrill, recalled
driving the boat and also
driving the miniature train
that existed in the landing.
In 1967, the landing was
sold to Judson, Richard and
Philip Downing, the sons of
Lester Downing, and then in
1990, John Downing purchased
the property.
With New Hampshire
Fish and Game purchasing
the property, the public boat
launch known for more than
150 years as “Downing’s
Landing” will continue to be
used by members of the public
who can enjoy fishing,
boating and cruising the waters

of Lake Winnipesaukee

[mcdude]

Union Leader

CONCORD - The N.H. Fish and Game Department will close the fishing dock at the new Downing's Landing boat access site in Alton Bay for about three days, from April 15-17, while structural engineers assess the condition of the dock and determine future repair needs.

Fish and Game purchased the former private marina at the southern tip of Alton Bay in November, creating the first public boat access facility on Lake Winnipesaukee. In addition to the fishing dock, the facility includes a boat launch, parking area and opportunities for shorebank fishing.

New Hampshire's Public Boat Access Program is funded through boat registration fees and federal Wildlife and Sport Fish Restoration funds, a true user-pay, user-benefit program. Fish and Game's Facilities and Lands Division acquires land for public water access sites, refurbishes existing sites and builds new public boat access areas. Fish and Game maintains more than 140 public boat access sites throughout New Hampshire.